An opinion you're probably all alone with?

[Zombimode]

Mass Effect 2 and 3 are garbage games with a few moderately well written NPCs. The start of Mass Effect 2 is an abrupt, confusing bit of nonsense where the player is killed and brought back for no purpose narratively. The shift to simplified game systems and ammo limited cover shooting is an appeal to the lowest common denominator. There isn't even the illusion of choice within the framework of the story, and it ends with the most absurd boss fight in both concept and execution. Giant terminator made from slurried humans? Sure. Why not?

Well, that would be my winning entry for this thread

[Eldan]

I mean, the story of ME2 is ****. Especially compared to ME1. But the characters, the world design and many of the missions are still miles better and they made the powers actually fun to use, even if I regret the loss of the cooldown system on weapons. For me, it balances out.

Seriously, have you tried to replay ME1 at some point? There's so many side missions that consist of the same copy-pasted cargo spaceship or space warehouse. Yes, the main story is infinitely better, but it has basically no good side quests.

(And don't get me ranting again about how many good ideas ME2 and 3 actually had that they squandered. Or I'll start talking about how the Star Child should have been the human reaper, which I thought was a good idea very badly executed.)

[Zevox]

Well, that would be my winning entry for this thread

Yeah, I think so. For my money ME2 is far superior to ME1 in every meaningful way. (As is ME3, despite the stupid ending and a few other points of criticism.) And I say this as someone who doesn't normally like or play shooters: if those changes to the gameplay were "appealing to the lowest common denominator," that just makes it sound to me like the lowest common denominator knows how to make a better game than ME1.

Which isn't to say that ME1 is a bad game, mind you. Just that its gameplay isn't its strong suite, its world-building is.

[Saambell]

I remember quitting the first ME not even off the first planet, cause I failed the hacking mini games so badly I had to burn half my inventory to make the "skip the hacking mini game" gel to get through a plot important door that had locked me out of progressing the main plot. Never looked at the series ever since, only watched a lets play that was more a plot commentary then showcasing the game, which lead the commentators to praise the first game more than the other two.

On topic, I guess that leads into my take: QTE mini games are a scourge on the industry, and should not be thrust into games just to give you something other then the core game play to do. No matter how boring the game is, QTE do not make it better, and do in fact make it worse then just being boring, they make it boring and occasionally frustrating.

[factotum]

Mass Effect 2 and 3 are garbage games with a few moderately well written NPCs. The start of Mass Effect 2 is an abrupt, confusing bit of nonsense where the player is killed and brought back for no purpose narratively. The shift to simplified game systems and ammo limited cover shooting is an appeal to the lowest common denominator. There isn't even the illusion of choice within the framework of the story, and it ends with the most absurd boss fight in both concept and execution. Giant terminator made from slurried humans? Sure. Why not?

You're definitely not alone in the opinion that ME2 is not the BESTEST GAME EVARRR but I wouldn't necessarily go as far as to call it garbage. The actual gameplay is pretty fun and it has some of the best-written sidequests Bioware has ever produced. It's just a shame the main story is such unremitting tripe. A lot of people think the series went off the rails with ME3, but to be honest ME3 was frantically trying to compensate for a second instalment that did nothing to advance the major plot of defeating the Reapers. If anything, the plot moved *backwards* during ME2--we start by doing a complete reset for no good reason, as you say, thus completely throwing away all the plot hooks left by the first game. Then we spend the entire game runtime fighting an irrelevant secondary threat. Let's not even start about the utter ridiculousness of having every single main character get into a shuttle to do an offscreen mission in order to leave the Normandy deserted for a Collector attack, or the "human Reaper" thing at the end.

[WritersBlock]

The instant death QTE's in games are the worst.

The QTE's in Resident Evil 6 and Metal Gear Rising Revengance are not too bad and are a select few games with QTE's I do not mind. (in RE6's case, because they give you an option to disable/autopass qte's) In Resident Evil 5's case they only gave any annoyance on the hard and professional difficulties. (Eh, the Wesker fights are the main draw for me in that game, as well as Sheva Alomar)

[Rynjin]

Man, it's so weird that Sheva has never reappeared.

What is it about secondary playable protagonists in Resident Evil games and just being forgotten after one game? Lookin' at you, Billy Coen.

[Velaryon]

It's a game with no redeeming qualities, which is in some ways worse than a true disaster like Big Rigs. Dante acts entirely out of character, the plot is mostly fluff, all of the bosses are boring and forgettable, and the gameplay in general is stiffer and less skill-based than the first game.

That last part is what makes it particular egregious. Being a step back from the game that came before is an unforgivable sin in a game. You already had a good game. How abjectly ****ing incompetent do you have to be to not at least have the exact same mechanics if you can't do better?

Calling what Dante has a "character" is being exceedingly generous. DMC has a paper-thin story at best, with characters that barely even qualify as one-dimensional. I'm not defending DMC2 as a good game by any means, but it's less of a step down than you're making it seem.

[Rynjin]

Calling what Dante has a "character" is being exceedingly generous. DMC has a paper-thin story at best, with characters that barely even qualify as one-dimensional. I'm not defending DMC2 as a good game by any means, but it's less of a step down than you're making it seem.

The plot would be more forgivable if the gameplay was good. Even by the standards of the time, DMC 2 was a subpar (at best) character action title, and would soon be vastly overshadowed by releases like the Xbox Ninja Gaiden (2004) and the first God of War game (2005).

Given that DMC was a genre-revolutionizing title, that is an egregious step down. And audiences agreed. It's very rare for a (first) sequel to a smash hit to undersell compared to the franchise starter, but DMC 2 managed it.

[Zevox]

Calling what Dante has a "character" is being exceedingly generous.

In the first two games, sure - his character didn't really get well-defined until DMC3, when he becomes fully the cocky, corny, completely over-the-top action hero we know and love. But there's shades of it in the first game, even if its unintentional there because DMC1's writing is basically so-bad-its-good.

The greatest sin with DMC2, both in its story and in its gameplay, is that it's boring. Dante barely talks or does anything of note besides be a puppet for you to control during the fights, aside from a single decent one-liner to one of the last bosses. Lucia, his female counterpart for the game, is even worse, having no personality and not much explanation for why she's even in the game. The plot is so thin it's impossible to even follow, as they don't bother to even give basic explanations for what little is happening. And more importantly, the gameplay is dull - Dante's weapon variety from the first game was ditched in favor of three swords that all have the same moveset, and what few combat options he does have are basically all worse than just sitting back and spamming basic gunshots with his pistols (especially in Devil Trigger, where those fire so fast they just melt health bars), which is about as boring as you can get in a game where you don't even need to aim due to target lock being a thing. Enemy design only further encourages you to do that, with a lot of bosses in particular feeling like they're intended to punish you for getting close, or having lengthy periods where they're flying beyond your melee reach anyway.

DMC2 is not some bug-ridden, unplayable mess, sure. But it's a massive low point for a franchise built on making itself exciting and making the player feel like they're getting to do cool, powerful things when the game succeeds only in boring you instead.

[Eldan]

Actually, thinking about it, this is my opinion I'm all alone with:

The Human Reaper in ME2 wasn't fundamentally a bad idea.

There, I said it. It comes with a disclaimer/rant two pages long, but that's what it boils down to.

[GloatingSwine]

Actually, thinking about it, this is my opinion I'm all alone with:

The Human Reaper in ME2 wasn't fundamentally a bad idea.

There, I said it. It comes with a disclaimer/rant two pages long, but that's what it boils down to.

It was, because there's no way to make it make ME2 advance the overall plot of the trilogy (which it totally doesn't do until Arrival).

The collectors should have been building a new Citadel with their kidnapped humans as its new Keepers.

At the end of the game it should have been activated but the Omega Relay destroyed (at the Omega end, wiping out that system). So the Reapers are "here" but they're trapped in the centre of the galaxy and will take time to navigate out the hard way.

If the player does badly enough to generate a "failshep" then instead of missing the jump back to the Normandy and dying of lameness they have to ram it into the relay to blow it

[Imbalance]

I'm just gonna say it: I dislike Pokémon. I always have. Pretty much everything about it. I've not really enjoyed any of the video games that I've played. The card game is ok. Most of the creatures are just...lame...boring...or annoyingly stupid. But most of all, I absolutely despise the cartoon show. My kids are into it now, and while I can generally ignore it for their sake, if Team Rocket comes on I have to leave the room. I get that they're the bad guys and supposed to be villainous and dastardly, but I already dislike the protagonists, and that trio triggers a deep hatred for not only the characters and their asinine entrance poem, but everyone involved from the voice actors to the writers and animators that created these a-holes and decided to feature them in every episode. I'm not sure hate is a strong enough word.

I wouldn't assume that I'm alone in these feelings, but I've never come across anyone else who hates the show as much as I do and admits it.

The live action movie must be ok. It has put me to sleep every time I've tried to watch it.

[LaZodiac]

Actually, thinking about it, this is my opinion I'm all alone with:

The Human Reaper in ME2 wasn't fundamentally a bad idea.

There, I said it. It comes with a disclaimer/rant two pages long, but that's what it boils down to.

I completely agree with this. The reveal that for the Reaper's this entire universal civilization ending process was to make a single child put into perspective how truly alien and eldritch they are. It's kind of a goofy boss fight but no more or less than Saren and his floating disc and weird jumpy-boy form. The series is a somewhat camp sci fi serial, fighting a giant robotic human skeleton made out of liquefied humans is in-fitting with this vibe.

[Lord Raziere]

I completely agree with this. The reveal that for the Reaper's this entire universal civilization ending process was to make a single child put into perspective how truly alien and eldritch they are. It's kind of a goofy boss fight but no more or less than Saren and his floating disc and weird jumpy-boy form. The series is a somewhat camp sci fi serial, fighting a giant robotic human skeleton made out of liquefied humans is in-fitting with this vibe.

Whoa now, I feel neutral about the human Reaper but Mass effect is NOT in any way shape or form, camp. its sci fi action movie to be sure, but not camp.

[warty goblin]

Whoa now, I feel neutral about the human Reaper but Mass effect is NOT in any way shape or form, camp. its sci fi action movie to be sure, but not camp.

Yeah, definitely agree with this. Mass Effect takes itself far too seriously to be campy. Yeah sure there's jokes, but they're in-character jokes, there's nothing performative or wink-at-the-camera about it. I wouldn't even say ME is pulpy or cheesy in the vein of classic sci-fi, though it does borrow some set dressing. ME is basically straight forwards military SF in tone and interest, just wearing a bit of space opera costume because it really wants to let you be a special space wizard, and it needs to turn all problems into something that somehow can be solved by a 4 man fireteam.

[Eldan]

It was, because there's no way to make it make ME2 advance the overall plot of the trilogy (which it totally doesn't do until Arrival).

The collectors should have been building a new Citadel with their kidnapped humans as its new Keepers.

At the end of the game it should have been activated but the Omega Relay destroyed (at the Omega end, wiping out that system). So the Reapers are "here" but they're trapped in the centre of the galaxy and will take time to navigate out the hard way.

If the player does badly enough to generate a "failshep" then instead of missing the jump back to the Normandy and dying of lameness they have to ram it into the relay to blow it

I mean, if you want to hear the abbreviated version of my total rewrite of the game's story....

The Human Reaper would not be a giant metal human fille with goop. Instead, all the abducted colonists and the abducted crew would be hooked up to brain scanners, that would slowly disassemble their brains while studying how they work. This would be to build a simulation of the human mind, in superior reaper form. As Sovereign says in the first game, each reaper is a nation. So the human reaper is a million human minds, uploaded into a single body. The reapers are doing this to form a human cypher, analogous to the protean cypher Shep is trying to find in the first game. A human beat them, now they need to understand humans.

And of course, the human reaper would not be destroyed in ME2. It would, in fact, return in ME3, leading the reapers. And the human reaper would understand humanity, and even try to engage in diplomacy with Shepard. It would argue that it is a superior form of human evolution, combining all the culture, knowledge and memories of millions into a perfect mind and body. A Synthesis, if you will.

So yes. Replace creepy child with human Reaper.

[MCerberus]

Would we also replace creepy kid's role in Shep's character development with the one he left behind of Virmire? You know, with the dream sequences and such.

[GloatingSwine]

I mean, if you want to hear the abbreviated version of my total rewrite of the game's story....

The Human Reaper would not be a giant metal human fille with goop. Instead, all the abducted colonists and the abducted crew would be hooked up to brain scanners, that would slowly disassemble their brains while studying how they work. This would be to build a simulation of the human mind, in superior reaper form. As Sovereign says in the first game, each reaper is a nation. So the human reaper is a million human minds, uploaded into a single body. The reapers are doing this to form a human cypher, analogous to the protean cypher Shep is trying to find in the first game. A human beat them, now they need to understand humans.

And of course, the human reaper would not be destroyed in ME2. It would, in fact, return in ME3, leading the reapers. And the human reaper would understand humanity, and even try to engage in diplomacy with Shepard. It would argue that it is a superior form of human evolution, combining all the culture, knowledge and memories of millions into a perfect mind and body. A Synthesis, if you will.

So yes. Replace creepy child with human Reaper.

I mean maybe, but the real problem is the whole "reapers are like six months away from the galaxy" thing that is required if they don't have a replacement for the Citadel.

The fact that the Reapers were, on the cosmic scale of their harvests, literally too lazy to reach over to grab the remote from the other arm of the sofa and had a super convoluted scheme where a minion teleports them to it instead is one of the dumbest things in the overall trilogy. Much dumber than a boss fight with a giant Terminator head.

[Zevox]

This all reminds me of an opinion I'm, if not alone with, probably in a small minority for having: the Reapers were never a good part of Mass Effect, and sidelining them was one of the many reasons I like 2 so much. Elements of the universe that didn't have anything to do with the ridiculous robo-Cthulus, like the Krogan conflicts and Genophage or the Geth/Quarian conflict were always the much more interesting part of the series, and 2 and 3 putting those more center-stage is a big part of why I like the series as much as I do at all. If the series had focused as much on the Reapers as ME1 seemed to set it up to, I probably wouldn't like it nearly as much.

This is also why I couldn't care less about complaints about ME2's story. ME2 not progressing the overarching plot of the trilogy much is fine with me because the overarching plot of the trilogy wasn't ever good to begin with, IMO, and ME2's story of building a team for a dangerous suicide mission against a slightly more grounded of a set of villains was just better anyway.

[LibraryOgre]

So, my rough rewrite of Mass Effect starts at Mass Effect 2, goes to 1, and then goes to 3.

Mass Effect 2: Shepard, former Alliance Marine, is working for Cerberus, who has a sketchy reputation, but Shepard hasn't seen it. Cerberus wants you to investigate missing human colonists. Tali can be looking into the disappeared quarian, as usual, but the Archangel bit for Garrus should probably be moved to 2... he's just a Citadel cop looking into some corruption. Wrex is looking for Okeer, finds the Krogan clone tanks, and joins with you, since it points to the Collectors. You travel to Tuchunka, as normal, but the end is that Wrex becomes leader, rather than Grunt becomes a person. Liara is a data broker, but not a teammate, yet. At different points, you meet Ashley and Kaiden... perhaps both, on Horizon.

At the end, the Human Reaper is discovered. You get hints about what the Collectors are doing, but no hard information about the Reapers. Suicide mission, even if Shepard fails, you make it back.

Mass Effect 1: The Alliance sort of believes Shepard's warnings enough that, when the beacon is revealed on Eden Prime, they call Shepard in; travels in with Kaiden and Redshirt, runs into Ashley again. Tali has valuable data, Garrus is Archangel, Liara is missing. With Wrex's increased responsibilities, you should early on (perhaps in Fist's possession) run into Grunt. We see a lot of Cerberus, but all as bad guys (pretty much as we see them in ME1, the first time; weird, unethical experiments) Culminates with the attack on the Citadel. Council can't ignore Shepard any more.

Mass Effect 3: Largely the same, though with all sorts of improvements to make (I like the one above, where you replace Starkid with whoever died on Virmire? Amazing. A+ suggestion).

[Eldan]

I'd just scrap the entire "Shep joins Cerberus" plot.

[factotum]

I'd just scrap the entire "Shep joins Cerberus" plot.

Well, maybe not scrap it, but at least make it *optional*. The game is supposed to be about choices, after all, and playing as the actual bad guy is something you rarely get to do in RPGs. Whereas with ME2 as it stands you meet all these people who say, "I hear you're working for Cerberus now, how on earth did that happen?" and you just simply don't have a good answer for them--sure, you can *say* that Cerberus are the only ones fighting the Reapers, but that particular plot twist was always ridiculous anyway; the Council got their collective butts handed to them by a Reaper at the end of the first game, and we're expected to believe that 2 years later they no longer believe they exist?

[Artanis]

Actually, thinking about it, this is my opinion I'm all alone with:

The Human Reaper in ME2 wasn't fundamentally a bad idea.

There, I said it. It comes with a disclaimer/rant two pages long, but that's what it boils down to.

I think you're going to get a LOT of agreement on this, actually, including from me.

"Reaper made out of humans" was fine. What they did with it, on the other hand...yeah.

[Spore]

I love Bioware RPGs but for some reason I never played ME 1 beyond its tutorial planet. From what I heard from a few fellow players it feels more like soap opera in space than a riveting RPG? But mechanically it is not enough shooter, and not enough RPG for me. Falls in that weird void in between you know?

I do NOT understand the hype about that series at all.

[Lord Raziere]

I love Bioware RPGs but for some reason I never played ME 1 beyond its tutorial planet. From what I heard from a few fellow players it feels more like soap opera in space than a riveting RPG? But mechanically it is not enough shooter, and not enough RPG for me. Falls in that weird void in between you know?

I do NOT understand the hype about that series at all.

Its not really hype anymore, its something that a lot of people have fond memories of and thus has something in common on this forum. there hasn't been a new game out for that franchise for years, so discussions keep popping up about it here because people liked it at one point, and has a lot of things about that are discussable.

hype would be if a new one was coming out and I don't recall one coming out any time soon.

[Rynjin]

Its not really hype anymore, its something that a lot of people have fond memories of and thus has something in common on this forum. there hasn't been a new game out for that franchise for years, so discussions keep popping up about it here because people liked it at one point, and has a lot of things about that are discussable.

hype would be if a new one was coming out and I don't recall one coming out any time soon.

We know the Bioware is working on ME 4, but Bioware is for all intents and purposes a dead developer at this point, zombified and reanimated by EA, so nobody is really hyped.

[Lord Raziere]

We know the Bioware is working on ME 4, but Bioware is for all intents and purposes a dead developer at this point, zombified and reanimated by EA, so nobody is really hyped.

Yeah thats dread. We're dreaded. We're getting dreaded by reminiscing how much better the original trilogy is going to look in comparison. just getting our expectations low to lessen the pain ahead of time.

[LaZodiac]

Camp was definitely the wrong term, I'll cop to that.

[Spore]

Its not really hype anymore, its something that a lot of people have fond memories of and thus has something in common on this forum. there hasn't been a new game out for that franchise for years, so discussions keep popping up about it here because people liked it at one point, and has a lot of things about that are discussable.

hype would be if a new one was coming out and I don't recall one coming out any time soon.

You seem to focus on the word hype and ignore the rest of my (very short) post. It should be clear from the context that I meant infatuation or fanbase rather than short hype. I just don't really get it. It initially felt even like an actually good looking Kotor 3.