A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #271
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Zevox's Avatar

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    Nov 2008
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    Default Re: An opinion you´re probably all alone with?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nepenthe View Post
    How is that any different than Morrowind though? Why is it that people can accept selecting an enemy and letting RNG determine if you hit in Diablo clones, RTSs, tactics games, isometric RPGs, JRPGs, and even other first person RPGs, but Morrowind players can't?
    Speaking as someone who doesn't like any Bethesda games and has no horse in that race, I'd expect it has to do with the fact that the other games you refer to (besides Diablo, which I can't speak to since I haven't played) are turn-based, not real-time. In turn-based games of course you'll have a miss chance, it's the only way to model the potential to miss a target, or for a foe to dodge a blow, in such a system. In real-time games though the expectation is that since you're in direct control of the attacks through the timing of your button presses, the game will mechanically reflect that. I know personally I'd be very off-put by a game that includes a random miss chance despite otherwise functioning like an action game.
    Toph Pony avatar by Dirtytabs. Thanks!

    "When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." -C.S. Lewis

  2. - Top - End - #272
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Dec 2010

    Default Re: An opinion you´re probably all alone with?

    Also don't conflate 'here is a mechanic I think could be better' with 'I hate this game / this is a bad game'. People can love Morrowind and think its great and also identify things that they think after having had 20 years of subsequent gaming experience could be done better.

  3. - Top - End - #273
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: An opinion you´re probably all alone with?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Speaking as someone who doesn't like any Bethesda games and has no horse in that race, I'd expect it has to do with the fact that the other games you refer to (besides Diablo, which I can't speak to since I haven't played) are turn-based, not real-time. In turn-based games of course you'll have a miss chance, it's the only way to model the potential to miss a target, or for a foe to dodge a blow, in such a system. In real-time games though the expectation is that since you're in direct control of the attacks through the timing of your button presses, the game will mechanically reflect that. I know personally I'd be very off-put by a game that includes a random miss chance despite otherwise functioning like an action game.
    On the Diablo 2 side of things, you make enough attacks throughout a playthrough that it isn't particularly notable when individual ones miss and I think the community at large is fine with attacks missing (with how old the game is, those who wouldn't be fine with missing have likely moved on by this point.) That said, I don't think removing the hit calculations entirely would impact the game much (see the spoiler below for some discussion, but the overall jist is that any build that interacts with the to hit mechanic is somewhere between mediocre and awful before significant investment into endgame gear, at which point the to hit mechanic is basically irrelevant.) Diablo 3 removed hit rates entirely from the game (outside of some player-side skills that give dodge chances) and, at least in my opinion, the game doesn't suffer for it.

    Spoiler: Diablo 2 Aside
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    There is a push to improve hit rates for pre-endgame characters (level 75ish and lower with non-endgame gear), as the leveling experience is miserable for characters who need to interact with the hit rate formula (especially melee characters, as missing an attack can lead to being stunlocked by enemies.) The formula is level dependent and heavily punishes melee play outside of endgame builds as monsters are typically higher level than a character who is progressing through the game in a normal fashion (this especially true for bosses, where a typical character might have a 50% or more chance to miss even with level-appropriate tricked out gear.) This skews the leveling (and even endgame) meta overwhelmingly to spellcasting builds or physical characters that bypass the hit calculation entirely. There are endgame-viable physical melee builds that do interact with the accuracy mechanic of the game but they require very expensive gear to get reliable hit rates and only come online when the game is basically over. (Typically, these characters are only created after another character has completed the game, found much of the gear required, and is able to trade items for a leveling service from another player.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercenary Pen View Post
    And there I was thinking that Midichlorian counts were a variety of force-sensitive hereditary noble- most notably Dooku.

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