Star Wars: Andor BBY5

[Fyraltari]

Ah, yes. Two intractable Star Wars arguments going simultaneously in two different threads.

Just you wait till I get on with season 6 of TCW, there'll be 4 concurrent Star Wars threads!

[gbaji]

Attack of the Clones shows a Republic fleet which is, to appearances, composed entirely of Acclamators; Revenge of the Sith shows one which seems to be entirely Venators. Going from 100% Type 1 Big Flying Wedge to 100% Type 2 Big Flying Wedge shows "increasingly standardized Imperial style for the Republic?"

Yes. Because they represent artistic stages towards the "classic" Imperial Star Destroyer seen in the Original Trilogy. Again. You're getting too caught up in specs on fan sites and not just looking at the images of these things on screen over time. That's what the audience sees. That's what the folks creating the designs for the ships they see are aiming at.

Also, as much as the opening crawl of Revenge of the Sith might say that there's "heroes on both sides" of the Clone Wars, pretty much nothing about the film portrayal of the CIS is sympathetic. I don't see how you're supposed to be confused about whether or not you're supposed to root for them.

I said "we dont' know which side we should be rooting for". It's not about rooting *for* the CIS. It's about going in knowing that you maybe shouldn't be rooting for the "good guys", because you know that they become the "bad guys". But the "other guys" (Separatists) are clearly not "good guys". Get it? And yes, the ship designs are designed to portray this and make it absolutely clear to the audience that there is this interesting swaparoo going on and that maybe we're really not supposed to be rooting for *either* side (which is absolutely correct). It's about design fitting the theme.

The good guys we're cheering are using ship designs that clearly are designed to evoke the Imperial designs we see in the OS. The bad guys we're supposed to hate are increasingly seen flying around in ships much more reminiscent of the types the Rebel Fleet will utilize in the OS as well. I spotted this same thing watching Clone Wars as well (it's even more apparent there actually given that we see a lot more samples of different ships). Yes, the "bad guys" are clearly bad. But the "bad guys" all get killed. What's left over of the Separatists, not the leadership, but the folks who still don't want some central power running their lives, ultimately do form various parts of what becomes the rebellion later on.

And yeah. The choices of ship design are very clearly made to make this apparent to the audience.

[Peelee]

snipped for length

The speed stuff is fair, that's on me for not checking when I copy/pasted. 14000kph is still way too fast for how fast we see the ships fly across the surface of the death star, but hey, I'll even give you that. Because still, we see that either the computers or the torpedoes simply don't have the range, which you yourself seemingly acknowledge. You also seem to be perfectly happy mixing movies and EU when it suits your purposes but ignoring EU when it doesn't, such as when Starfighters explicitly must be in fairly close range for torpedoes in virtually every book where they shoot torpedoes. Sure, you can say the Death Star target is too small, use whatever justification you like. It doesn't matter. In movies, they have to be fairly close to use torpedoes. In novels and comics they have to be fairly close to use torpedoes. And "fairly close" always means "at severe risk of death", again as explicitly told or shown to us in both movies and non-film canon.

[Mechalich]

The speed stuff is fair, that's on my for not checking when I copy/pasted. 14000kph is still way too fast for how fast we see the ships fly across the surface of the death star, but hey, I'll evne give you that. Because still, we see that either the computers or the torpedoes simply don't have the range, which you yourself seemingly acknowledge. You also seem to be perfectly happy mixing movies and EU when it ****s your purposes but ignoring EU when it doesn't, such as when Starfighters explicitly must be in fairly close range for torpedoes in virtually every book where they shoot torpedoes. Sure, you can say the Death Star target is too small, use whatever justification you like. It doesn't matter. In movies, they have to be fairly close to use torpedoes. In novels and comics they have to be fairly close to use torpedoes. And "fairly close" always means "at severe risk of death", again as explicitly told or shown to us in both movies and non-film canon.

Agreed, and, because this is all WWII naval combat, we would assume they'd need to get close, because Dive Bombers and Torpedo Bombers absolutely did have to get extremely close to target to use their weapons. 2019's Midway is not a particularly good film, but if you watch the combat scenes it becomes extremely clear how everything present translates almost perfectly into Star Wars. For example, compare this scene of the destruction of the carrier Akagi, to the trench run from ANH. It could hardly be more obvious.