Star Wars: Andor BBY5

[Peelee]

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I think it's most likely just that the writer was a KotOR fan, that's how a lot of old EU material keeps slipping in.

Leland Chee sighs at this.

[The Glyphstone]

Assuming he's not still weeping softly into his glass of hard liquor.

[Peelee]

So the scuttlebutt I'm hearing is that the show was designed to have 3-episode arcs. I'm kind of sad they're not releasing them in blocks of 3 like they did with the first week, because that worked really well. Then again, that may be me just loving the show and wanting to go ahead and binge it all.

Again, I love how they do so much with very little. No need to throw more ships and troops at the wall, you get a feel for how menacing and powerful the Empire can be with a single TIE fighter.

[Palanan]

Another outstanding episode, smoothly edging up the tension and leaving me wishing I could alter time and speed up the harvest, or at least jump immediately to next Wednesday morning.

Spoiler: Humanizing & Otherwise

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Further humanization of our two anti-protagonists, especially the ISB career officer, who showed something I don’t think we’ve ever seen before—a friendly working relationship between Imperial officers, with touches of real empathy for each other. It’s an echo of humanity where we least expect it, in the heart of the Empire’s security service, though we’ll have to see if it’s only a convenient mirage.

And at this point it’s hard not to feel real sympathy for Syril, back in the little room where he grew up with an acid-tongued mother driving home his faults and failures. Looking forward to meeting his uncle.

Solid character development on the heist team, just enough of their personalities and relationships and histories. Of course the young idealist is a moral philosopher—and it was a nice touch that Andor, for a brief moment, seemed to be drawn into the discourse. Turning the animals loose was another nice touch, likely Cinta’s idea.

The show is extremely effective at showing the power and menace of a single TIE fighter against ordinary civilians, the sort of people who don’t have beskar and jetpacks to rely on, much less lightsabers and a mystical energy field. The TIE pilot’s low pass is another humanizing touch—unfortunately in the other direction, the classic a****** fighter jock who enjoys blasting local civilians with jetwash right on the deck.

As for Mon Mothma’s troubled domestic life, I would’ve thought she’d be better at dealing with a snotty teenager, but perhaps that was the point—that for all her leadership talents, she’s at a loss with her own family. Those scenes may have been the least-strong of this episode, but they did provide an essential contrast between the damp, gritty Aldhani highlands and the pristine, almost sterile environment of Mon Mothma’s apartments.

Spoiler: Agents of E.M.P.I.R.E.

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And did anyone recognize Nick Blood, aka Hunter from Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.?

[Dire_Flumph]

Another outstanding episode, smoothly edging up the tension and leaving me wishing I could alter time and speed up the harvest, or at least jump immediately to next Wednesday morning.

The show started in a good place and has only gotten better after leaving Ferrix. For one though I really prefer the pace most non-Netflix streamers keep to with the weekly releases. I like having the time to digest an episode rather than binging.

Spoiler: For Andor, Episode 5

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And at this point it’s hard not to feel real sympathy for Syril, back in the little room where he grew up with an acid-tongued mother driving home his faults and failures. Looking forward to meeting his uncle.

I like the character quite a bit, and he's been a good choice for an antagonist, but I really feel little sympathy for him. He still comes across to me as the sort of petty little man who will get others killed with his ineptitude to justify his sense of self worth and his upbringing doesn't excuse that. I've not seen much of anything I'd consider remorse or self-examination for his little expedition going sideways and I think I'd need to see some sign of that first. But I'm very curious to see where his story's going and who his uncle is.

As for Mon Mothma’s troubled domestic life, I would’ve thought she’d be better at dealing with a snotty teenager, but perhaps that was the point—that for all her leadership talents, she’s at a loss with her own family. Those scenes may have been the least-strong of this episode, but they did provide an essential contrast between the damp, gritty Aldhani highlands and the pristine, almost sterile environment of Mon Mothma’s apartments.

Sort of like Aang in Legend of Korra, I like the humanizing detail that a great leader can also be a less than great parent. I didn't really catch on to the extent that she has to hide her involvement in anti-Empire activities from her family until this episode though and it makes sense that her daughter would pick up on the facade her home life is because of it. It did strike me that for all that this character has appeared in quite a few Star Wars productions since Return of the Jedi, and yet this seems like the first real attempt at giving her much of a character to flesh out (I don't even recall the old EU bothering to take a stab at it). For a role that originated on Revenge of the Sith's cutting room floor, I'm glad Genevieve O'Reilly has hung in there and finally has more to work with.

- For a Star Wars production, Andor has been oddly aversive to showing much of anything in the way of aliens (or even droids outside of B2EMO). So much so that a goat with a few extra horns seemed oddly out of place.

- I think I could go through scenes in Luthen's antiquities store frame by frame to drink it all in. Someone had a lot of fun filling in that space with some great detail.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Dire_Flumph
I like having the time to digest an episode rather than binging.

Overall I agree, but the ending of this week’s episode left me on the edge of my seat wanting more.

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Originally Posted by Dire_Flumph
I like the character quite a bit, and he's been a good choice for an antagonist, but I really feel little sympathy for him.

He’s tried to do what he believes is right and walked into a fiasco through no real fault of his own, other than inexperience. He has character flaws in abundance, but then so does the eponymous hero of the show.

As for self-examination, he’s too much of a true believer to question the rightness of his approach. It seems pretty clear he’s going to try to freelance apprehending Andor to vindicate himself, so the question is what he’ll do when that goes awry. He may vindicate himself in some other way beyond his own ambitions. Definitely an interesting character, and thoroughly human, baggage first and foremost.

Originally Posted by Dire_Flumph
For a role that originated on Revenge of the Sith's cutting room floor….

A little confused by this line. Mon Mothma first appeared in Return of the Jedi in 1983.

Originally Posted by Dire_Flumph
For a Star Wars production, Andor has been oddly aversive to showing much of anything in the way of aliens (or even droids outside of B2EMO). So much so that a goat with a few extra horns seemed oddly out of place.

There have been quite a few aliens in the background, including several which were direct callbacks to prior theatrical releases. But yes, no aliens among the main cast. Presumably they want to focus on the nuances of human emotion without having to divert time to develop an alien character.

I’d also noticed the absence of droids, especially in Mon Mothma’s home, where you would expect servitor droids to be present in the background. It’s an interesting character choice, especially in the Star Wars galaxy.

Originally Posted by Dire_Flumph
I think I could go through scenes in Luthen's antiquities store frame by frame to drink it all in. Someone had a lot of fun filling in that space with some great detail.

Oh, yeah. It reminds me of the hundreds of hand-labeled vials in Dumbledore’s pensieve case.

And I’m pretty sure I saw something that looked like a Sith holocron, though slightly larger, sitting on an upper shelf. I have a feeling they're teasing us with that. But I would pay real money to be able to browse through that set.

[Peelee]

The show started in a good place and has only gotten better after leaving Ferrix. For one though I really prefer the pace most non-Netflix streamers keep to with the weekly releases. I like having the time to digest an episode rather than binging.

I tend to agree, especially since it helps foster discussion among the community which can be really fun, but if they're delineating the story in 3-episode arcs, then being able to have those released at the same time would be nice. It worked great for the first 3, giving effectively a movie-length story while still leaving more for the next week.

Spoiler: For Andor, Episode 5

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I like the character quite a bit, and he's been a good choice for an antagonist, but I really feel little sympathy for him. He still comes across to me as the sort of petty little man who will get others killed with his ineptitude to justify his sense of self worth and his upbringing doesn't excuse that.

I actually disagree.

Spoiler: Syril

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I loved the scene with him and his supervisor, because it spoke volumes. The supervisor was making the pragmatically correct choice - the deaths did start as an accident that went to far to stop, it was due to the corruption of those killed, it was just an ugly can of worms that he didn't think needed opening.

But damn all that. Sure, it would have been an embarrassment to the CSA, but so ****ing what? Confront the problem head on and resolve it. Your security force is corrupt and two members got killed? Don't sweep it under the rug, find out the truth, prosecute the person who did it if needed, and root out the corruption.

Syril is full of faults. He's self-important to the point of modifying his uniform to make himself look better to others, and he has no charisma or leadership skills, but at least he had a sense of justice. He didn't want to keep pressing for his career or this self-importance or to look better. He wanted to keep pressing because it was the right thing to do. And it was.

Let justice be done though the heavens fall.

ETA:

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Also, his "uncle" is totally going to be more of a family friend with the "uncle" honorific and also a criminal of some sort. Calling it now.

[dancrilis]

Spoiler: Syril

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I loved the scene with him and his supervisor, because it spoke volumes. The supervisor was making the pragmatically correct choice - the deaths did start as an accident that went to far to stop, it was due to the corruption of those killed, it was just an ugly can of worms that he didn't think needed opening.

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I would hope we see more of that supervisor - my favourite character in the show despite (or because of) limited screen time.

Life would have been better for everyone if Syril had just listened to him - and I suspect that Syril is blaming Andor for what happened rather then himself which if I am correct will lead to Syril being a 'never my fault' antagonist.

[Peelee]

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I would hope we see more of that supervisor - my favourite character in the show despite (or because of) limited screen time.

Life would have been better for everyone if Syril had just listened to him - and I suspect that Syril is blaming Andor for what happened rather then himself which if I am correct will lead to Syril being a 'never my fault' antagonist.

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I wholeheartedly agree. I loved the supervisor. He knew how to play the game, and sweeping it under the rug was the right choice, practically and politically. But as far as Justice goes, it was the wrong choice, and Syril was in the right, even disobeying direct orders as he did.

Both are wonderful characters and I want more of that. But I'm afraid that's the last we'll see of him, sadly.

[Dire_Flumph]

Spoiler: For Andor, Episode 5

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A little confused by this line. Mon Mothma first appeared in Return of the Jedi in 1983.

True, as I mentioned. But Genevieve O'Reilly was originally cast in the role for Revenge of the Sith and she has subsequently played the character in Rogue One, Rebels and Andor. But her Revenge of the Sith scenes were pared down to almost nothing and I don't even recall that any of her speaking lines survived to the final cut. Her Rogue One role was little more than background character continuity and she didn't have much more to do in Rebels. It took until now for anyone to give her much of anything to do with the part. Although if Lucas was still at the helm I'm sure she'd have been spliced into Return of the Jedi by now as well.

And I’m pretty sure I saw something that looked like a Sith holocron, though slightly larger, sitting on an upper shelf. I have a feeling they're teasing us with that. But I would pay real money to be able to browse through that set.

A friend pointed out to me today the Sankara Stones are up there. Missed that one.

Syril is full of faults. He's self-important to the point of modifying his uniform to make himself look better to others, and he has no charisma or leadership skills, but at least he had a sense of justice. He didn't want to keep pressing for his career or this self-importance or to look better. He wanted to keep pressing because it was the right thing to do. And it was.

And I suppose that is where my read on the character differs. I don't really see him as interested in justice, but reacting to an affront to authority. The corruption doesn't matter to him, that the officers were shaking down visitors doesn't matter to him, what matters to him is that someone took out two of *Us*. He's a man who craves power and respect, he gains that through the institution he serves, thus an affront to that institution is what moves him, because he sees that as affront to him.

I could be wrong though, we have yet to really dig into who Syril is and I'm curious to see where the character goes. Just my read on his actions to date.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Dire_Flumph

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But her Revenge of the Sith scenes were pared down to almost nothing and I don't even recall that any of her speaking lines survived to the final cut.

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A couple of her scenes were included as “special deleted scenes,” but I don’t think she appeared in the theatrical release. I can understand why—they would have distracted from the emotional trajectory built up by the end of the movie.

Originally Posted by Dire_Flumph

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A friend pointed out to me today the Sankara Stones are up there.

Spoiler: Andor's Got Big Stones

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No idea what those were, had to look them up. I’ve only seen that movie once, on video after it came out, so I’d long since forgotten them. Hella in-joke to be sure.

Ahh, to be a professional nerd who writes articles about Easter eggs in streaming Star Wars shows. Nice work if you can get it.

[Peelee]

Spoiler: For Andor, Episode 5

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And I suppose that is where my read on the character differs. I don't really see him as interested in justice, but reacting to an affront to authority. The corruption doesn't matter to him, that the officers were shaking down visitors doesn't matter to him, what matters to him is that someone took out two of *Us*. He's a man who craves power and respect, he gains that through the institution he serves, thus an affront to that institution is what moves him, because he sees that as affront to him.

I could be wrong though, we have yet to really dig into who Syril is and I'm curious to see where the character goes. Just my read on his actions to date.

Spoiler: justice vs authority

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Well, he can't very well do anything about their actions. He could try to root out other corruption, sure, but ostensible murders would take precedence.

That said, I do see your argument and it definitely has merit. That was just how I read the situation, and I won't lie, some of my own bias may have snuck in. I am a very big fan of justice being done and damn the consequences.

[Palanan]

Spoiler: Two Views of Syril

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Part of the art of the show is leaving room for both these interpretations.

I personally come down on the side of Syril being genuinely concerned with justice, as part of his worldview and devotion to his calling—but if he’s able to advance himself while he does so, well, all for the better. Petty careerism can coexist with higher principles.

—At least for a while, so when the decision point comes we’ll see if his principles are solid or just a flimsy rationale. Either way he’s superbly compelling for a secondary character.

[dancrilis]

Spoiler: For Andor, Episode 5

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And I suppose that is where my read on the character differs. I don't really see him as interested in justice, but reacting to an affront to authority. The corruption doesn't matter to him, that the officers were shaking down visitors doesn't matter to him, what matters to him is that someone took out two of *Us*. He's a man who craves power and respect, he gains that through the institution he serves, thus an affront to that institution is what moves him, because he sees that as affront to him.

Spoiler: Disagree with the bolded

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I see where you are coming from but I disagree - his boss ordered him to not do anything, even if he got his guy there was nobody above him who cared about what were effectively random unimportant killings.
Win or lose he stood to gain no authority and lose all of it from his actions.

[Peelee]

Spoiler: Disagree with the bolded

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I see where you are coming from but I disagree - his boss ordered him to not do anything, even if he got his guy there was nobody above him who cared about what were effectively random unimportant killings.
Win or lose he stood to gain no authority and lose all of it from his actions.

Spoiler: Totally disagree

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They weren't random unimportant killings, they were the killings of two Pre-Mor security men. Just because his direct supervisor swept it under the rug doesn't mean it stays there if Syril catches the murderer. It could go either way at that point - everyone reports to someone, and just because his boss didn't want that can of worms doesn't mean his boss's boss wouldn't want Andor's head on a platter if it was presented.

[dancrilis]

Spoiler: Totally disagree

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They weren't random unimportant killings, they were the killings of two Pre-Mor security men. Just because his direct supervisor swept it under the rug doesn't mean it stays there if Syril catches the murderer. It could go either way at that point - everyone reports to someone, and just because his boss didn't want that can of worms doesn't mean his boss's boss wouldn't want Andor's head on a platter if it was presented.

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Possibly but as his boss's boss is either The Empire who seem to place a value on stability over justice or some senior Pre-Mor staff and likely to accept the supervisors points on the dangers of an investigation given some of the anomalies - I think it is fair to say that Syril was not modivated by a desire for power (he might have wanted the respect of those below I will grant).

[Mechalich]

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Possibly but as his boss's boss is either The Empire who seem to place a value on stability over justice or some senior Pre-Mor staff and likely to accept the supervisors points on the dangers of an investigation given some of the anomalies - I think it is fair to say that Syril was not modivated by a desire for power (he might have wanted the respect of those below I will grant).

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Syril appears mostly motivated by a desire to look good and achieve. He's fully aware of the massive corruption within Pre-Mor and finds the death of two burying the murder of two fellow officers to be more than he can take. So he defies orders, takes matters into his own hands, and tries to bring in Cassian to prove a point knowing the investigation will lay bare corruption. Among other things, to find Cassian he brought in the prostitute lady for an official interview, which puts the existence of an illegal brothel and the officer's inflated incomes into the record. He probably thinks, out of a lack of foresight, that because he personally is not corrupt that either the executives within Pre-Mor or the Empire will reward him for his dedication to duty in a classic case of go-getter naivete. Admittedly, had he succeeded it is possible he would have been kept on as a 'local liaison' or offered a transfer to the Empire as a reward after they came in an rooted out the sinecure Pre-Mor had established, which the ISB officer makes clear the Empire was looking for basically any excuse to do anyway. The operation blowing up in his face is a tragedy for him personally, but it doesn't change the Empire's likely response in any significant way aside from accelerating the timeline.

He displays a combination of naivete and lack of foresight that's actually fairly common in youthful officers who think they can climb the ladder through excellence and dedication to duty, which rarely works in any bureaucracy, never mind one that is systemically corrupt from top to bottom. The intriguing question, to me, is how he managed to reach the apparently relatively high rank of deputy Inspector - he has sufficient authority to authorize what is effectively a SWAT operation entirely on his own - without having that beaten out of him. I suspect his Coruscant origin matters, probably coupled to impressive educational credentials and maybe a really high score on some kind of departmental aptitude test (some bureaucracies sort promotion potential that way).

[PontificatusRex]

I am really enjoying this series, easily one of the best additions to the SWU.

I don't think its spoilerific to say that one of the things I'm finding particularly interesting is seeing how the Empire is consolidating it's control. The scene on Ferrix where they point out the new Imperial headquarters is a great snapshot of that - all of sudden the planet that has been largely independent and administered 3rd-hand by a security company that wasn't even based on the planet is now permanently occupied by Imperial forces, and that's probably repeating throughout the galaxy. Totalitarianism isn't something that gets instantly imposed, it creeps in with the population believing "It's not that bad", and then it's gets a little worse, and a little worse - and then it's too late. (I'm also reading the Expanse series right now and seeing the parallel with Laconia.)

Great commentary on Syril by everyone, looking forward to seeing where it goes. My guess is that he's going to turn, but it could go anywhere.

Regarding Mon Mothma:

Spoiler: Family stuff

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I don't see her as a bad parent or bad at family, I see that she's got a ****ty partner and a spoiled kid who takes after the dad. I think we're going to see her forced to choose between the Rebellion and her family, but it will be the family forcing the choice, not her or unavoidable circumstances.

[Peelee]

At this point I just feel like a broken record. Newest episode is amazing, the show so far has done no wrong, the humanization of the villains is incredibly effective, etc etc.

[Palanan]

Another outstanding episode, possibly the best yet.

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Superb buildup of tension, from within the arc and throughout the episode. With all good heist stories there’s always the tension of how exactly it’s going to go to pieces and how they’ll pull it off regardless. At one moment I genuinely thought that Vel would lose her nerve and Cassian would have to take over; that was nicely built up to and nicely played.

They telegraphed a little too strongly that Taramyn wouldn’t make it out, and you can’t help rooting for the poor kid. The one part I found slightly contrived was the commandant keeling over just as Corporal Kimzi’s squad interrupted the heist. It’s possible the commandant faked that, but there’s no real indication in the episode, and the timing seems a little too convenient.

The Eye itself was absolutely spectacular, and another one of this show’s small humanizing moments was to demonstrate that during the height of the Eye, some of the Imperial personnel were just as lost in wonder and pure awe as the Aldhani themselves. Notably this didn't extend to the commandant and his command staff, but even the commandant—callous, arrogant and self-important—is in part doing what he does for the good of his family.

As for Skeen, he certainly knew how to play his partners—especially the little speech about Taramyn being what they were fighting for, which seems perfectly pitched to steer them towards the doctor’s place and a better opportunity for taking the haul. Vel seems to have been completely taken in; a hard lesson in leadership in a rebellion. This arc is fairly self-contained, but even so I’m hoping we’ll see her again during another op, stonier but more certain of herself.

No idea where the series is going from here, but so far it’s been breathtakingly good. I can only wait to see where we go next.

[dancrilis]

A fine episode - would have been a fine end of season, looked it up afterwards and am somewhat surprised that they are continuing it next week rather then having a break.

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As for Skeen, he certainly knew how to play his partners—especially the little speech about Taramyn being what they were fighting for, which seems perfectly pitched to steer them towards the doctor’s place and a better opportunity for taking the haul. Vel seems to have been completely taken in; a hard lesson in leadership in a rebellion.

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I am less sure - I am half convinced that he was just testing 'Clem' to see if he might have a role in the rebellion or if he was pure mercenary about it and Andor just didn't see through the bluff and acted as if the treachery was real (we will probably never know).

[Peelee]

A fine episode - would have been a fine end of season, looked it up afterwards and am somewhat surprised that they are continuing it next week rather then having a break.

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I am less sure - I am half convinced that he was just testing 'Clem' to see if he might have a role in the rebellion or if he was pure mercenary about it and Andor just didn't see through the bluff and acted as if the treachery was real (we will probably never know).

There's 12 episodes total, and have only have 4 air dates so far. Taking a break now would be odd and most likely incredibly unpopular.

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No way was that a test. There's nothing indicating it was and everything indicating it was. Not to mention how bad it would be as a test - if he declined and it was a test, nothing changes. This is opposed to someone likely dying if he agreed - either it was a test and he'd probably be shot for being untrustworthy, or it wasn't a test and he would almost certainly have planned to take the whole thing to start with and could have shot them dead anyway instead of just taking half.

[dancrilis]

There's 12 episodes total, and have only have 4 air dates so far. Taking a break now would be odd and most likely incredibly unpopular.

I haven't been following the amount of episodes due, this kindof felt 'end of season' for me a small well done set, but they might be going for three episode arcs tied together - in which case hopefully the upcoming arcs are as good (felt this arc was better then the opening arc).

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No way was that a test. There's nothing indicating it was and everything indicating it was. Not to mention how ridiculous it would be as a test - if he declined and it was a test, nothing changes. This is opposed to him someone likely dying if he agreed - either it was a test and he'd probably be shot for being untrustworthy, or it wasn't a test and he would almost certainly have planned to take the whole thing to start with and could have shot them dead anyway instead of just taking half.

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I disagree.

If he turned it down then no harm - you now know he is not purely in it for maximum profit.
If he accepted you know he isn't trustworthy so can't take him to whatever your drop off point is or introduce him to anyone important.

Between trust and test I could see why someone would do a test - now if it was a test it was a bad one because there was no control (you would want someone with a gun watching him in case he reacts poorly).

I also find it suspect that Skeen who has been working with the rebellion for months, was presumedly somewhat vetted before that for the mission and who Vel and the others trust just happened to know an uninhabited moon which can support them while they figure out what to do.

I think it makes it a better story to have it be an ill conceived test of character gone wrong - but I can see the alternative of a greed just getting to a guy when he has the credits almost right in front of him and a guy who has no reason to turn them down who he can ask for help.

Also think Andor might be a lot more murder happy then most people - Skeen had no way to transport the credits - he could have perhaps just said 'no' test or no test.

[Peelee]

I haven't been following the amount of episodes due, this kindof felt 'end of season' for me a small well done set, but they might be going for three episode arcs tied together - in which case hopefully the upcoming arcs are as good (felt this arc was better then the opening arc).

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I disagree.

If he turned it down then no harm - you now know he is not purely in it for maximum profit.
If he accepted you know he isn't trustworthy so can't take him to whatever your drop off point is or introduce him to anyone important.

Between trust and test I could see why someone would do a test - now if it was a test it was a bad one because there was no control (you would want someone with a gun watching him in case he reacts poorly).

I also find it suspect that Skeen who has been working with the rebellion for months, was presumedly somewhat vetted before that for the mission and who Vel and the others trust just happened to know an uninhabited moon which can support them while they figure out what to do.

I think it makes it a better story to have it be an ill conceived test of character gone wrong - but I can see the alternative of a greed just getting to a guy when he has the credits almost right in front of him and a guy who has no reason to turn them down who he can ask for help.

Also think Andor might be a lot more murder happy then most people - Skeen had no way to transport the credits - he could have perhaps just said 'no' test or no test.

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He's a mercenary taking on a smaller amount of money for stealing a larger amount of money. You already know he's not in it for maximum profit when he doesn't steal it to start with. And that's putting aside that Skeen isn't the leader and isn't in charge of doing such things, and that Skeen was the one who wanted to divert away from the initial rendezvous plan despite that Nsmik was dying, per the actual leader and per what we see happened even with a doctor's intervention.

Sure, making it a test could be interesting, but you yourself don't think well revisit whether it was or not which makes any interest in it purely in the realm of baseless hypithesizing and ignoring what we know - that Skeen made the offer, had a plan, and performed actions in furtherence of that plan. There's no reason to disbelieve him except for cheap, manufactured, and most importantly imaginary drama.


Now, if instead you take it at face value that it was not a test and Skeen really did want to rip them off, we have a character holding up a mirror to Cassia - a loner who doesn't want to be part of something bigger and is only doing it for the money. And Cassian sees this and rejects it. That is both interesting and actually happening without baseless hypithesizing.

[dancrilis]

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He's a mercenary taking on a smaller amount of money for stealing a larger amount of money. You already know he's not in it for maximum profit when he doesn't steal it to start with. And that's putting aside that Skeen isn't the leader and isn't in charge of doing such things, and that Skeen was the one who wanted to divert away from the initial rendezvous plan despite that Nsmik was dying, per the actual leader and per what we see happened even with a doctor's intervention.

Sure, making it a test could be interesting, but you yourself don't think well revisit whether it was or not which makes any interest in it purely in the realm of baseless hypithesizing and ignoring what we know - that Skeen made the offer, had a plan, and performed actions in furtherence of that plan. There's no reason to disbelieve him except for cheap, manufactured, and most importantly imaginary drama.


Now, if instead you take it at face value that it was not a test and Skeen really did want to rip them off, we have a character holding up a mirror to Cassia - a loner who doesn't want to be part of something bigger and is only doing it for the money. And Cassian sees this and rejects it. That is both interesting and actually happening without baseless hypithesizing.

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That is all fine.

I just think it makes less sense in the wider scheme of thing.

I could see it as Skeen having a moment of greed sure, but even with that I don't think he calculated for nearly his entire team to get killed which was the only real way that his plan could work - and I think he was genuine about trying to use the on-call doctor to try and save the guy rather then a crafty move, as he could have pulled that move in space instead.
There was no talk from him about 'no witnesses' to avoid making enemies etc, had he proposed it to Vel she might have talked him around.
So if it wasn't a test I think it was likely a man hitting his breaking point after a number of people he worked with and trained with for months died in front of him right as a bucket of cash showed up in front of him - so he was mulling a 'lets run' option.

Andor per the movie and per this show is quick to kill people including defenceless people and even people (from the movie) who are on his side - this is a trait that the other members of the group didn't seem to really have, the only killing they did was effectively in self defence.

[Peelee]

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That is all fine.

I just think it makes less sense in the wider scheme of thing.

I could see it as Skeen having a moment of greed sure, but even with that I don't think he calculated for nearly his entire team to get killed which was the only real way that his plan could work - and I think he was genuine about trying to use the on-call doctor to try and save the guy rather then a crafty move, as he could have pulled that move in space instead.
There was no talk from him about 'no witnesses' to avoid making enemies etc, had he proposed it to Vel she might have talked him around.
So if it wasn't a test I think it was likely a man hitting his breaking point after a number of people he worked with and trained with for months died in front of him right as a bucket of cash showed up in front of him - so he was mulling a 'lets run' option.

Andor per the movie and per this show is quick to kill people including defenceless people and even people (from the movie) who are on his side - this is a trait that the other members of the group didn't seem to really have, the only killing they did was effectively in self defence.

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It doesn't make less sense, you just don't know to what extent he had planned it. But he admits to making things up, he is the instigator to go to a contingency planet where he is left alone with Cassian, and he offers a plan to steal the money.

Making it a "test" is hackneyed and trite, and serves no purpose in the story as it continued. With the events that happened afterwards, it would be meaningless if it was a test.

Assuming it was a test despite no indication it was adds absolutely nothing narratively. Accepting the already-offered premise that it was genuine adds characterization and foreshadowing Andor's eventual commitment to the Rebellion.

But hey, if you still want to believe it was a test despite all that, don't let me stop you.

[dancrilis]

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It doesn't make less sense, you just don't know to what extent he had planned it. But he admits to making things up, he is the instigator to go to a contingency planet where he is left alone with Cassian, and he offers a plan to steal the money.

Making it a "test" is hackneyed and trite, and serves no purpose in the story as it continued. With the events that happened afterwards, it would be meaningless if it was a test.

Assuming it was a test despite no indication it was adds absolutely nothing narratively. Accepting the already-offered premise that it was genuine adds characterization and foreshadowing Andor's eventual commitment to the Rebellion.

But hey, if you still want to believe it was a test despite all that, don't let me stop you.

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Saying I am half convinced of something is not the same as saying I fully believe it or am assuming it.

I tend to go with a few ideas in order of what I think make most sense to me with what has been delivered.
One - man in a difficult situation after a period of trouble where people he knew died and discusses a bad plan that occured to him and dies because he was speaking to the wrong guy.
Two - it was a test of the person he was speaking with.
Three - he is a cunning mastermind that infiltrated a secret operation to steal some loot with the intention of personally stealing the loot from the thieves (and such a mastermind that he needed a pilot he didn't know was going to be with them to help him complete it) only to fall into the all to common mistake of blabbing about his masterplan at the wrong moment.

Perhaps given those options you would go 1, 3, 2 - or merge 1 and 3 or whatever.

[ecarden]

Excellent episode. I am tempted to wait and try to watch these in 3 episode chunks, as I do think that works better for me, but we'll see if my patience holds out.

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I don't think it was a test. If it was then there'd have been some contingency for exactly what ended up happening.

I do think Cinta probably killed all the hostages before leaving, wonder if we'll hear more about that?

Did I miss what happened to Dorn? I saw Taramyn, Nemik and Skeen die, Vel, Cassian and Cinta got away, but I think I missed what happened to Dorn, somehow.

Did like the callback from 'they've gotten fat and lazy' to the commandant having a literal heart attack.

Did like no hordes of storm troopers mowed down without casualties.

Continue to wonder what we'll see when they finally focus on Mon Mothma's family. That relationship has clearly gone to pot, but I wonder how it started out? I think her husband mentioned regimental friends a few episodes back? Maybe it collapsed under the weight of being on different sides of how to handle the Separatists? If this show wanted to do a bit of cleanup of the....simplistic politics of the Clone Wars cartoon, I would enjoy that, but we'll see.

[Peelee]

Excellent episode. I am tempted to wait and try to watch these in 3 episode chunks, as I do think that works better for me, but we'll see if my patience holds out.

Yeah, I'm wishing they released them all in three episode chunks since it really looks like thats how they've structured the show but ain't non way I can make myself miss each episode as it comes out. Hell, I get up early so I can watch it before work, without ambient sunlight, before the kiddo wakes up. Same as I did with Mando.

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Did like no hordes of storm troopers mowed down without casualties.

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I'm really loving the no stormtroopers at all so far, because in fairly confident they will eventually be used as will be shown to be as devastating as theyre intended to be. And if not used at all, how powerful and menacing the Empire is even without their crack troops.

[Mechalich]

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Continue to wonder what we'll see when they finally focus on Mon Mothma's family. That relationship has clearly gone to pot, but I wonder how it started out? I think her husband mentioned regimental friends a few episodes back? Maybe it collapsed under the weight of being on different sides of how to handle the Separatists? If this show wanted to do a bit of cleanup of the....simplistic politics of the Clone Wars cartoon, I would enjoy that, but we'll see.

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We have some clues on this, notably due to the age of the daughter, Leida, being established in the databank as 13, meaning she was born in 18 BBY, probably not much more than a year or so after RotS. Additionally Mon Mothma appears several times in TCW with no indication that she was married. It was also established, in Disney canon, that she was briefly arrested following the Declaration of New Order but was released after professing her loyalty.

This suggests, to me, that she chose to get married very rapidly following the founding of the Empire to a known loyalist and military veteran to help defray charges of sedition and that she had a child very swiftly thereafter to insure continuity of the marriage. Now, I'm not saying she didn't like Perrin Fertha, a lot even, and had perhaps considered marrying him for some time. The Clone Wars is certainly reason enough to delay a courtship. Still, I think political motives probably pushed her towards matrimony pretty hard. Alternatively, it's possible that the push originated differently, and she got married intending to retire from politics or at least return to Chandrila (a much nicer place than Coruscant by every indication), but was pulled back into the struggle by her idealism.