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2022-09-23, 02:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2016
Swift Quiver Bonus Action only and takes a turn to activate RAW?
In another thread I read Swift Quiver takes a turn to activate the Bonus Action attacks RAW. I may just be in my own world but what in the wording makes that so? If anything it says "on each of your turns".
Also, on rounds after you cast it, can you make your two Bonus Action attacks and say cast Disintegrate with your Action?
Swift Quiver
5th-level transmutation
Casting Time: 1 bonus action
Range: Touch
Components: V, S, M (a quiver containing at least one piece of ammunition)
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute
You transmute your quiver so it produces an endless supply of nonmagical ammunition, which seems to leap into your hand when you reach for it.
On each of your turns until the spell ends, you can use a bonus action to make two attacks with a weapon that uses ammunition from the quiver. Each time you make such a ranged attack, your quiver magically replaces the piece of ammunition you used with a similar piece of nonmagical ammunition. Any pieces of ammunition created by this spell disintegrate when the spell ends. If the quiver leaves your possession, the spell ends.
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2022-09-23, 02:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2010
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- Saint John, NB
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2022-09-23, 03:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2016
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2022-09-23, 03:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: Swift Quiver Bonus Action only and takes a turn to activate RAW?
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2022-09-24, 06:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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Re: Swift Quiver Bonus Action only and takes a turn to activate RAW?
Swift Quiver really should let you make the two attacks when you cast it, too.
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2022-09-27, 01:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
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Re: Swift Quiver Bonus Action only and takes a turn to activate RAW?
My sig is something witty.
78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.
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2022-09-27, 07:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2022
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- GitP, obviously
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Re: Swift Quiver Bonus Action only and takes a turn to activate RAW?
Something Borrowed - Submission Thread (5e subclass contest)
TeamWork Makes the Dream Work 5e Base Class Submission Thread
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2022-09-27, 08:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2006
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- Washington, DC
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Re: Swift Quiver Bonus Action only and takes a turn to activate RAW?
This is one of the reasons why Bonus Action management is my least favorite part of 5E. I always feel like its wasted, or too crowded, or too confusing.
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2022-09-27, 09:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: Swift Quiver Bonus Action only and takes a turn to activate RAW?
I must admit, I'm curious what 5e would be like if you stapled on PF2/PFU's 3-action economy instead.
Or alternatively - if we had the ability to trade our action (or maybe action + inspiration?) in for a second bonus action (but not the reverse.)Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2022-09-27, 10:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2018
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- Nashville, TN
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Re: Swift Quiver Bonus Action only and takes a turn to activate RAW?
I don't think it would break anything to allow the two attacks as a part of casting the spell. If somebody stuck with Ranger until level 17 to finally get that spell, I'd at least reward them with that much.
Now I probably wouldn't give that nod to a Bard that took it...
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2022-09-27, 11:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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Re: Swift Quiver Bonus Action only and takes a turn to activate RAW?
One of the issues with Ranger and Paladin spells is that, as half casters with dedicated spells, Bards actually become better at casting their spells than they are. This isn't an issue with the 1/3 casters, who have borrowed spell lists from full casters anyway. For this reason, half casters who aren't just cribbing a full caster's list need to have class features that interact with their class spell list in some way.
I think Rangers, for example, should have some means of tying Favored Enemy and/or Favored Terrain to their spells, possibly by obviating the need for Concentration. Perhaps they do not require Concentration to maintain Ranger spells when they are in their Favored Terrains, and have clauses in certain Ranger spells themselves which let them be used without Concentration if they target a Favored Enemy. You'd need it, I think, to be spell-by-spell for the last one so the specific interaction with Favored Enemies can be spelled out. Swift quiver might not require Concentration unless and until you use one of its granted attacks on a creature that is not a Favored Enemy. Engangling smite, on the other hand, might allow you to cast it as part of the action in which you land the blow (rather than pre-casting it and using it on a later blow), with no concentration, if you're using it on a Favored Enemy you just hit.
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2022-09-27, 12:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2006
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- Washington, DC
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Re: Swift Quiver Bonus Action only and takes a turn to activate RAW?
My ideal would be to eliminate Bonus Actions entirely, and limit the action economy to 1 Action, 1 Reaction, movement, and Concentration (which could encompass both spells and Tome of Battle combat stances which you could switch as a Reaction). Then every feature and spell should be written to be big/useful enough to fit into one of those things. (Or small and insignificant enough that no one cares - like Light or Mage Armor). I hate fiddly add-ons. Your Actions in combat should be interesting choices, not a bonus stacking math problem.
For example, TWF is fine to include as part of an attack Action. It doesn’t need a Bonus Action to eat because it deals the exact same damage as a two handed weapon unless you have Fighting Style. Yes, it helps Rogues trigger Sneak Attack more often. But so what? Sneak Attack damage just keeps Rogues on the same level as other classes when it comes to at-will damage.
/rant
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2022-09-27, 12:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: Swift Quiver Bonus Action only and takes a turn to activate RAW?
The problem I see though is that "no one cares" is subjective. Sure, it's not often that you'll need to recast Light or Mage Armor (or both!) during a fight - but it can come up and be important, such as getting dispelled or your lantern doused in a dark room. And making some spells "free" is just going to lead to a different kind of optimization, e.g. cramming 10 Lights into my turn to bait all the enemy counterspells before I cast the thing I actually care about. And now you need to add yet more rules to prevent that from happening, because we've just created a bag-of-rats scenario inside the spellcasting system.
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2022-09-27, 01:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2006
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- Washington, DC
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Re: Swift Quiver Bonus Action only and takes a turn to activate RAW?
Fair point. Perhaps they should be added as ribbon class features then? Or you could impose a small costly material spell component? Or you could just require Concentration but make the effect worthwhile? (For example, Light is continuous while you maintain Concentration, and you can use ab Action to Blind (Save negates) 1+ level enemies? Something that allows the magical fluff people will want to keep in the game, without it being abused?
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2022-09-27, 06:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2011
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- Waterdeep
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Re: Swift Quiver Bonus Action only and takes a turn to activate RAW?
Yeah, but in my case I can't help myself and went further.
Spoiler: It's totally different
Swift Quiver
5th-Level Transmutation
Casting time: 1 Bonus Action
Range: Touch
Components: V, S, M (a weapon or quiver containing at least one piece of ammunition)
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 hour
Until the spell ends your weapon attacks deal an extra 1d6 Force damage on a hit and once per turn you can duplicate one weapon attack you make before you roll the attack. This attack is treated as two identical attacks against the same target.Roll for it 5e Houserules and Homebrew
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