Did the various gods create civilizations or did everyone start as hunter/gatherers?

[Mars Ultor]

When Corellon Larethian created the elves were they as they are now? Did they have cities, metalwork, and magic, or were they hunter/gatherers? How about dwarves, humans, gnomes, etc.? Was the world created at a (fantasy) Medieval level with most of the cultures in the High and Late Middle Ages (11th to 15th centuries), or did all the races start off in primitive societies that eventually discovered new technologies like fire, the stages of metalworking, and the wheel and axle?

How do their histories begin? Did Moradin create the dwarves with extensive mines, forges, and underground cities and that was the moment everything began, or do they just know that they were created by Moradin and then society and technology evolved?

[Feantar]

We can't know that, because the racial deities might hail from other crystal spheres (and as such, any setting might have had the races transplanted there, and not be the actual origin).

That being said, I seem to remember that in FR, that there was mention of primitive humans (ie, the only race that doesn't have a core or core adjascent racial deity) emerging. Frostburn also has Neandrethals, though I cannot remember if they name them ancestors, or just later offshoots.

[Ramza00]

Depends on your setting and thus your DM.

En—Joy!

[Crake]

Considering a lot of DND is very tolkein based, you could take inspiration from early tolkein lore. Basically, the elves for example, were created to be in harmony with nature, and they had a sort of basic culture, but they still evolved and grew over time, developed new techniques for crafting and building, song and music, traditions etc.

Ultimately it comes down to the DM, but if a god-genesis is the basis of a race, it's probably safe to assume they started post-hunter/gatherer, but still had plenty of room for growth.

[Ramza00]

Considering a lot of DND is very tolkein based, you could take inspiration from early tolkein lore. Basically, the elves for example, were created to be in harmony with nature, and they had a sort of basic culture, but they still evolved and grew over time, developed new techniques for crafting and building, song and music, traditions etc.

Ultimately it comes down to the DM, but if a god-genesis is the basis of a race, it's probably safe to assume they started post-hunter/gatherer, but still had plenty of room for growth.

In 1979 E. Gary Gygax published Appendix N which was a collection of 28 authors (not just Tolkien) in AD&D Dungeon Masters Guide, p. 224

https://dungeonsdragons.fandom.com/wiki/Appendix_N

There are also other summaries of that 43 year old book. Since that 1979 list Gygax has commented other times such as making a 2007 list, and in 5th edition the 2014 Player Handbook has a new list.

So you can always go Michael Moorcock, editor of New Worlds, and the inspiration of the law / chaos axis with his concept of a Multiverse connected by the Eternal Champion, so on and so on.

-----

There is not a single way to worldbuild is my point.

[Jay R]

In my world, until it matters to the game, I won't decide it. That way, I can decide it however it will help the game.

My world has Schrödinger's history.

[Mechalich]

In the old school combined metasetting of Planescape/Spelljammer the past was greatly obscured due to the rise and subsequent fall of the Illithid Empire which at some point in the past (probably 35,000+ years ago) took control of an extremely large portion of the Prime Material Plane. Humans were the primary slave species of the Illithid Empire and it was their rebellion, under Gith, that led to the Empire's downfall. Humanity subsequently split into multiple species, the Githyanki, Githzerai, Pirates of Gith, and actual humans. The latter resettled many of the devastated Prime Material worlds and rediscovered worship of various pantheons.

Because humans emerged from the fragmentation of the Illithid Empire, and the various demihuman species from places where their gods had hidden them from the Empire's grasp it is likely that they were able to acquire most of the technologies already present and bring them along. The big caveat being that because the Illithids were almost entirely psionic, as were the early humans (something retained by the various Gith-inflected species) magic was almost entirely unknown and had to be rediscovered more or less from zero.

[Mars Ultor]

In my world, until it matters to the game, I won't decide it. That way, I can decide it however it will help the game.

My world has Schrödinger's history.

Box: Meow

Schrödinger: Shut up

[Quertus]

My personal head canon is, older worlds, the deities made life, its cultures evolved (ie, pretty much the old world creation stories), or stuff (see the Illithid histories), or “modern earth, then apocalypse and goblinization and magic”.

Worlds / settings that were newly created in 3e? If they don’t have origin stories to contradict it, I default to “and the gods gave them a repeating spell trap of Create Food and Water, which sustained them until their procreation forced them to evolve to Hunter/Gatherer status”.

My worlds? It… varies. From “we have always been here” to “man created the gods” to “the gods killed your creators and Mindraped your ancestors into forgetting that fact” to “… what are ‘gods’?” to… you get the idea.

[Telonius]

Depends on the setting, and what makes a deity (and if there's a difference between overdeities and lesser deities etc). If gods get their power (or existence) from the beliefs of their followers? Whatever the first race was, started as hunter/gatherers, and the gods came from their beliefs. (That's only for the first few gods. The hunter-gatherers could start believing in a random race's god who then creates the race completely from nothing). Got to be that way, or you end up with a chicken-egg paradox where gods can't exist without people, but people need to be created by gods.

If you have more of a Tokien-ish setup, deities are first and creations after.

[Crake]

In 1979 E. Gary Gygax published Appendix N which was a collection of 28 authors (not just Tolkien) in AD&D Dungeon Masters Guide, p. 224

https://dungeonsdragons.fandom.com/wiki/Appendix_N

There are also other summaries of that 43 year old book. Since that 1979 list Gygax has commented other times such as making a 2007 list, and in 5th edition the 2014 Player Handbook has a new list.

So you can always go Michael Moorcock, editor of New Worlds, and the inspiration of the law / chaos axis with his concept of a Multiverse connected by the Eternal Champion, so on and so on.

-----

There is not a single way to worldbuild is my point.

I never said it was entirely tolkein based, just that it was heavily so. Elves, orcs, halflings, even balors (the latter two renamed specifically to avoid any copyright infringement with hobbits and balrogs) are all practically direct rips from tolkein, and sure, a lot of the other metaphysics based concepts (like what you mentioned with law chaos, the multiverse, vancian casting etc) are taken from other places, but I think elves and their history/genesis are pretty solidly rooted in tolkein fantasy.

[SirKazum]

I never said it was entirely tolkein based, just that it was heavily so. Elves, orcs, halflings, even balors (the latter two renamed specifically to avoid any copyright infringement with hobbits and balrogs) are all practically direct rips from tolkein, and sure, a lot of the other metaphysics based concepts (like what you mentioned with law chaos, the multiverse, vancian casting etc) are taken from other places, but I think elves and their history/genesis are pretty solidly rooted in tolkein fantasy.

Also, if you look at Chainmail, which was the wargaming precursor to D&D, its fantasy supplement (the main game was just about historical battles) was pretty much a direct rip-off of Tolkien, even including direct references to specific orc tribes from Tolkien and such. (AFAIK that's when hobbits, balrogs etc. still had their original names.) I think the influences from Leiber, Vance etc. came mostly later, with D&D proper.

[afroakuma]

Well, that's not an easy question, given that creation is always shrouded in myth, but looking at the individual creation myths we can see a few important hallmarks:

• Dwarves, upon creation by Moradin, are indicated to have been imparted with the secrets of fire and the art of crafting, though to what extent this was put upon them in its entirety rather than in the sense of an inspiration is unclear. Once more, the presence of wild dwarves suggests that "civilization" as we commonly know it was not handed down from the Morndinsamman but emerged from dwarven efforts to master and shape their world.

• Elves were created wholecloth with the essence of Corellon Larethian and the other members of the Seldarine, but nothing is spoken of regarding matters such as art, music, culture, or architecture being given to them. Indeed, the existence of multiple varieties of wild and sylvan elf into present day suggests that the primordial elves were much closer to nature and that as they explored such concepts as light and sound, beauty and grace, discovery and knowledge, their beliefs shaped their deities accordingly.

• Gnomes barely have even a vestigial creation myth, but between what's known of gnomes themselves, what's known of their gods, and the limited hints we have from their oral creation mythology, the gnomes were basically sent off into the world with a smile on their faces and a clever joke in their hearts and nothing else.

• Halflings give us actual confirmation - they were definitely hunter-gatherers before consolidating an agrarian society and civilization. Thank you, The Complete Book of Gnomes & Halflings. Couldn't give us a darn thing for gnomes, but halflings at least get the explicit answer.