One D&D UA #2: "Expert Classes" Survey Open 10/20 - 11/23

[Ulsan Krow]

10gp says Paladin and Monk will be Warriors.



I do agree that if everyone is prepared it begs the question of why Sorcerer in the first place. Especially with them sharing even more of the Wizard list now.

At least we'll find out tomorrow. If the Bard is a prepared caster then we'll have reason to believe that's the goal for everyone and that's something we can push back on.

You owe me 10 gp homie

[Dr.Samurai]

Jump should be part of normal movement, not an action, so that needs to be fixed. Barbarian: I jump over the pit and do nothing else. Wizard: I Misty Step over the pit and cast Firebolt. Yeah, no.

*Pex uses Trigger on Dr. Samurai, it's Super Effective!*

Some other thoughts now that I can read through this thing a bit more:

1. Bards

Bards continue to offend my delicate and sophisticated sensibilities. Why... why can they do everything?

Full spellcaster? Check
From different spell lists? Check
Start with any 3 Skills? Check
Four Expertise picks? Check
Half Prof on anything else? Check
Healing spells always prepared? Check
Raise an ally back from 0hp as a Reaction? Check
Weapon and Armor proficiencies and Extra Attack with a subclass? Check

It's obscene. I don't even care if they're not overpowered with all of it, it's just inappropriate *fans himself*.

2. Ranger

Eh... I wonder more and more why this class exists. Like, I don't play these classes because I don't want to cast spells. But if you're going to be magical, just be magical. Being a fighter-lite+slow spell progression is weak sauce. At least Paladins get Smites and Immunities and Auras. Rangers should have some straight up magical features before level 13 that are better than "casts Hunter's Mark better". And TWF needs to go, it doesn't make sense as hunter's don't hunt prey by dual-wielding light weapons. Rangers should be Archery or Spear style. Anyways, not much more to say here.

3. Rogue

I love that Experts are described as having features and elements from other classes and Rogue is like "huh?" while Bard is like "ohhh yeaaah!".

4. I would have much preferred detaching ASIs from feats completely. Oh well, at least they masked that it is still the same exact thing so now I might forgot at some point...

5. Charger - Why? Why remove the attack on a dash feature? I literally have this feat right now on my Rune Knight (along with Mobile). I enjoy getting to where I need to go quickly, and even if obstacles are in the way. My approach to combat is that I should own the battlefield and little should stop my character from getting anywhere and bringing the pain lol. Dash increases speed and jump potential, and Charger lets me attack or push after that. Why remove this? Similar to Jump-as-Action, this is removing mobility or Actions from the martials.

6. Defensive Duelist - No idea why this is restricted to Finesse weapons only. Glad it's a half feat though.

7. Epic Boons - For all the customization in this edition, why are Epic Boons gated behind class grouping? So my Wild Soul Barbarian is tapping into the Feywild to gain powers at random when he rages but he can't gain Misty Step 1/Initiative? Eh... okay.

8. Fighting Styles - Suck. They don't compare to Expertise, or Channel Divinity, or whatever the Mages are going to get. This is not sufficient to be the "Warrior" thing. Get creative with Fighting Styles.

9. Grappler - Good feat. Combined with an unarmed strike you can get yourself Advantage on your follow-up attacks. And I like not being Slowed while grappling/moving as well.

10. Great Weapon Master - Still seems like you'll need it, but now it's a bit boring.

11. Heavily Armored - Tack Str 15 to the prerequisites and I'm down for it

12. Lightly Armored - Lmao, so every caster that doesn't have medium armor will just grab this at level 1?

13. Polearm Master - Why isn't this bonus action attack the case for all styles?

14. Sharpshooter - Shouldn't have "Bypass Cover".

15. Skulker - Did the darkvision rules change? Not having DA on perception checks with Darkvision is a big perk for a skulker. Not sure why it was removed.

16. Exhausted Condition - Unless the Berserker gets to shave off Exhaustion other than on a long rest, still not worth Frenzying too often.

17. Grappled - A saving throw at the end of each turn makes this less reliable than current grappling, but affecting their attacks is a slight buff. I'd probably prefer current grappling rules to the new one.

18. Help - I don't think it should require proficiency in the skill to assist someone. Doesn't make sense, and means that you need redundant proficiencies to make use of Help.

19. Jump - I've already commented on this but shouldn't be an Action and the skill check is a major nerf, as we've all discussed here ad nauseum how slowly skill checks improve for martials. I suggested earlier that a character should be able to use their Strength score in place of the check if they want.

20. Light Weapon - I like the attack being a part of the Attack action, as opposed to a bonus action. Good idea.

21. Study - I love that you can make these checks about monsters.

[jas61292]

I don't love everything here, but I am largely happy. It seems to me like they are trying to fit things to a particular power level, and are not afraid to both buff and nerf to get there. Weapons feats always were too strong, in my opinion, and were almost always banned at my tables, whether I was DM or not. These seem actually fairly balanced. Good, but not overshadowing characters that don't use them.

Similarly, the new Lore Bard seems fine and flavorful and decently strong. We have not seen a new Valor Bard, so I can't exactly compare, but from the get go in 5e, it always felt like Lore overshadowed Valor. This new Lore does not feel like it would do so.

There is a lot going on here, and I certainly have not gotten it all down with a single read through, so there may be things I am missing. And I do feel like in some cases (Ranger) they may have focused on balance in place of flavor. But I think as a whole, especially if thought of as a draft, this is definitely the correct direction that they are taking. And that is not something I was expecting to say.

[JackPhoenix]

Pssst... fighter! Hey, fighter! You wanted to take Ritual Caster for flavor and utility? Well, **** you! You only get 2 level 1 rituals now, can't learn any more. But hey, the feat now grants some extra benefits for casters!

Looks like some changes exist just to fix the screw-up with consolidated spell lists, including Songs of Restoration and school changes for some spells (that make no thematic sense, but are required to get the spells to where they belong).

Also, why the Baator is ranger getting spells as (sub)class features? Favored Enemy is good, but why does Hunter's Mark need to be a spell? So others can pick it up? Just delete the spell and make it a ranger feature outright, as it should've been. Same with Find Steed... I doubt clerics will lose access to conjurations, so they just get magic horses now, apparently.

[Psyren]

You owe me 10 gp homie

5gp. I was half-right.

Also, why the Baator is ranger getting spells as (sub)class features? Favored Enemy is good, but why does Hunter's Mark need to be a spell? So others can pick it up? Just delete the spell and make it a ranger feature outright, as it should've been. Same with Find Steed... I doubt clerics will lose access to conjurations, so they just get magic horses now, apparently.

You can pry my low-level Moon Druid's Hunter's Mark out of his cold dead paws, thank you very much.

IF 1DD Ranger 18 was +d10 on every hit all day concentration-free, I would agree that's a decent capstone. However, as others have repeatedly pointed out, it's +d10 instead of +d6 on every hit all day concentration-free. The most important part of the benefit -- every hit all day concentration-free -- is something the Ranger has from level 1. The upgrade from d6 to d10 is a weak capstone.

Even at +2 average to every hit, that's still on par with the Barbarian's boost from gaining +4 Str. Oh wait, actually it's better, since with the current crit rules, that gets doubled too. Not bad when you can reliably get 5-6 attacks.

So yes, I'm aware it's an increase over what they got early on. Not a massive one, but still good. I'd be cautious about making it even bigger.

Shh. It's a nerf to spellcasters and at high level too. Don't want that can of worms spilled.

Yeah I'm not seeing the complaint here. My only issue is that you're not allowed (as written) to prepare more low-level spells either.

[OldTrees1]

Even at +2 average to every hit, that's still on par with the Barbarian's boost from gaining +4 Str. Oh wait, actually it's better, since with the current crit rules, that gets doubled too. Not bad when you can reliably get 5-6 attacks.

You heard it here first. +0 Atk +2 Dmg is better than +2 Atk +2 Dmg +2 Str Saves +2 Str Checks (and presumably +4 Con since Psyren did not forget Barbarian gets that too).

[Dr.Samurai]

Barbarian's capstone blows ranger capstone out of the water.

Even on crits, the barbarian gets +3 dice on crits at that level so...

[Jervis]

Barbarian's capstone blows ranger capstone out of the water.

Even on crits, the barbarian gets +3 dice on crits at that level so...

Really I hope they change the bonus crit damage thing. It does next to nothing if they don’t have a increased crit range.

[Eriol]

Lots to comment on, but my stand-out might be strange: Search versus Study. A+. Definitely like how that "settles" (at least for me) almost all cases of Investigation versus Perception for things, though interesting how it also rolls in Insight, and such. No more "Insight check!" call or what not, it's a Search action, skill Insight.

Still a few ambiguous ones, like what for noticing an arcane symbol? I'd rule Perception to find it, Arcana to tell what it does. About the only time I'd rule Arcana for finding it is if the wall is patterned, and it's Arcana to realize that a sub-set of that pattern is a real arcane symbol.

Either way, even with the ambiguity, it's a lot clearer than before, and I'm glad of that.

A number of the other changes are... marginal (some good, some bad, some great, some horrible (Ranger capstone? REALLY?) ), but I genuinely like this clarification, as that's what it is IMO, more than a change.

[Psyren]

You heard it here first. +0 Atk +2 Dmg is better than +2 Atk +2 Dmg +2 Str Saves +2 Str Checks (and presumably +4 Con since Psyren did not forget Barbarian gets that too).

When one is melee and javelins only, and the other applies to everything? And one lets you concentrate on other spells while the other doesn't? And one can crit and the other can't? Yeah, totally clear-cut.

[OldTrees1]

When one is melee and javelins only, and the other applies to everything? And one lets you concentrate on other spells while the other doesn't? And one can crit and the other can't? Yeah, totally clear-cut.

Yep, Barbarian by a mile.

[Ortho]

When one is melee and javelins only, and the other applies to everything? And one lets you concentrate on other spells while the other doesn't? And one can crit and the other can't? Yeah, totally clear-cut.

Barbarians don't cast spells in the first place, so that's a non sequitur.

But you can't deny that the Ranger capstone is seriously unimpressive. Druids get Archdruid/Timeless Body, Clerics get an auto-success on Divine Intervention, Fighters get a whole other attack, Wizards get Spell Mastery/Signature Spells, and Rangers get... on average, a +2 to what you've said. It just doesn't compare.

[Gignere]

Rogue seems to make out ok and is mostly impacted by subtle implications of some seemingly minor changes. Dual Wielding change is nice. Charger looks like a great feat for them. Change to sneak attack being only on their turn is tough but I see why they did it. With expertise being more common I think the class is struggling to find their purpose. Still seems like it will be fun to play.

Off turn sneak attack may not be totally dead since they didn’t describe opportunity attacks or readied actions. If they define OAs/readied actions as an Attack Action that you do with your reaction. Off turn sneak attack is still a thing.

[Hael]

Upon second reading my reaction is the same as for the first UA. It’s a mixed bag, with a lot of subtle changes that I would need to playtest before passing judgement..

There is a general lack of design creativity. Where is the exploration pillar? Where are the ribbons? Where are the things that we might not have expected at all. Everything is still IMO very much in 5.5 land (and not 6.0 like some are claiming).

Some of this stuff is sort of what one might expect a savvy homebrewer to create (in some cases less good).

In other places, there is a distinct misunderstanding of the mechanics and balance of their game. Like the fact that GWF is unchanged, or eg the difference in power between some of the epic boons (some are like what you might expect a lvl 5 character could receive as a class feature, where others are truly epic)

On the positive side, I quite like some (not all) of the clunky action economy fixes. Like the shield master feat, or the dual wielding changes. I also really like the grappling changes. That leads to interesting playstyle changes that I would need to experience. I also really like the hunters mark change.

[Kane0]

Right so I made sure to read through and record my thoughts before coming back here, hopefully avoids some bias.

Class groupings: Good idea, can be worked with
Feats: Definitely default now, no optional about it. That’s OK
Spell lists: I liked the concept, let’s see the execution

Spoiler: Bard

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Inspiration: Uses a reaction now, interesting. Adding to a test is good and expected, healing is potentially the Healing Word problem but worse. Uses Prof rather than Cha now, as expected
Spellcasting: Arcane list but only half of the schools. This negates the benefit of having the list in the first place, since you have to check if your spell selections are valid. We are back to preparing spells split by level rather than a number you can distribute as you please, and I don’t like that. Replacing a spell with a long rest is expected after Tasha’s.
Songs of Restoration: No longer an actual feature, now just ‘get X spells’. Thumbs down, doubly so if this becomes a trend (and I suspect it will). Again dunks on short rests.
Countercharm: Completely gone, which I suppose makes sense as in its prior form it wasn’t worth the action and now Bardic Inspiration is taking up your reactions
Font of Inspiration: Takes an extra two levels which sucks mightily. But hey, short rests are still a thing I suppose
Magical Secrets: Slight restriction to any two spells from one list, but otherwise the same
Superior Bardic Inspiration: Yep, that’s a capstone
Epic Boon: I will have to go over them, but sounds fun
Subclass: It appears there is a standard pattern of 3, 6, 10 and 14 now, that’s good.
Expertise, Feats, Jack of All Trades: Nothing to say

Lore Bard:
Bonus Profs: as expected
Cutting words: as expected
Cunning Inspiration: advantage on the inspiration die, nice
Improved cutting words: a bit of damage as a rider, not bad but not great
Peerless skill: Inspire yourself for ability checks, and if you fail it isn’t wasted. Again not bad, waiting to compare with the Rogue

Spoiler: Ranger

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Favored Enemy: No longer an actual feature, now just ‘get X spells’. Thumbs down, doubly so if this becomes a trend (two for two for those of you keeping track at home)
Natural Explorer: Completely gone, you get Expertise instead. Fine by me.
Spellcasting: You get cantrips now! Primal list but not evocation spells. This negates the benefit of having the list in the first place, since you have to check if your spell selections are valid. We are back to preparing spells split by level rather than a number you can distribute as you please, and I don’t like that. Replacing a spell with a long rest is expected after Tasha’s.
Subclass: It appears there is a standard pattern of 3, 6, 10 and 14 now, that’s good.
Roving: Fine, but climbing and swimming are handled by second level spells so a bit late on that front.
Tireless: Two good reasons to Short Rest, huzzah! Only had to wait until level 11 for it!
Nature’s Veil: Uses a spell slot, that’s not good. This is the level the Bard gets his recommended Etherealness, and you’re still replicating 2nd level spells.
Foe Slayer: Wow, an extra 2 average damage per hit when you spend your slots, action and attention doing your level 1 trick. I’d laugh if it weren’t so sad.
Epic Boon: I will have to go over them, but sounds fun
Fighting Style, Feats, Extra Attack: Nothing to say

Hunter Ranger:
Hunter’s Prey: It’s just colossus slayer but you don’t get a choice anymore. Whoopee.
Hunter’s Lore: Pretty neat, and I think this should be a standard Ranger feature
Multiattack: No longer an actual feature, now just ‘get X spells’. Thumbs down, doubly so if this becomes a trend (and this is even worse!)
Superior Hunter’s Defense: There wasn’t a regular Hunter’s Defense my guys. Anyways, neat being able to redirect it as well as halving the damage (before or after resistance?)

Spoiler: Rogue

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Sneak Attack: Thankyou for wording it more clearly! Can only sneak attack with the Attack action now, which is notable.
Thieves Cant: Now comes with some other language. Buy one, get one free!
Cunning Action: No change, still great. Notably we don’t have the Tasha’s Snipe option.
Subclass: It appears there is a standard pattern of 3, 6, 10 and 14 now, that’s good.
Uncanny Dodge: No change, still great
Evasion: Two levels later, which sucks quite a bit. Still a good feature though
Reliable Talent: No change, still good
Subtle Strikes: replaces Blindsense, and I think it’s a change for the better
Slippery Mind: Another buy one, get one free so that’s nice.
Elusive: No change, still good
Stroke of Luck: Now applies to all d20 tests and can get you a guaranteed Critical Hit. Ironically this is one of the times I would have really liked to see Prof times per LR
Epic Boon: I will have to go over them, but sounds fun
Expertise, Feats: Nothing to say

Thief Rogue:
Fast Hands: Bonus Action search should have been a ranger thing! Damnit! Also, no more fun stuff like bonus action use an item which sucks out a lot of the fun
Second Storey Work: Climbing 4 levels before the Rang– wait wait wait Jump ACTION?
Supreme Sneak: OK fine, but you don’t have proficiency in those anyways
Use Magic Device: Doesn’t actually let you attune to things that would ordinarily be restricted. Still, extra attunement plus potentially free charges is cool if DM/campaign reliant.
Thiefs Reflexes: Makes much more sense than additional turns, but I don’t see why you need the Prof times per day limitation at level 14. Cmon guys, I wouldn’t worry about MCing shenanigans at this stage, unless you don’t have faith in your Bonus-Action-granting feats?

Spoiler: Feats, Styles & Boons

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Prerequisite: Missing a huge opportunity to limit certain feats to class groupings here.

Ability Score Improvement: The yardstick
Actor: Ugh, we still have half feats. That’s such a cake-and-eat-it move, if you can’t find a way to justify a whole feats worth of actual abilities then axe or merge it! This is a great example actually.
Athlete: Half feat again, Climb speed again dunking on Ranger 7, and that Jump action again. This concerns me
Charger: Half feat again, but otherwise this seems an alright feat actually.
Crossbow Expert: HALF FEAT AGAIN, but this appears to drop the BA attack so that’s good
Defensive Duelist: HALF. FEAT. AGAIN. Reaction for Prof Bonus against one attack is not a favourable trade, especially once you factor other reactions you may have from race/class and that it’s restricted to finesse weapons and melee attacks.
Dual Wielder: Okay guys please stop with the half feats. It’s OK to make us CHOOSE if we want numbers or abilities without just giving us both. Show some restraint. Also, I think this version may actually be worse than the original?
Durable: See above notes on half feats. I think it’s a crutch and I don’t like them. This feat actually looks pretty great but also obviates short rests even more, so that’s a well played double-edged sword against me there.
Elemental Adept: No I won’t shut up about half feats. Thing is, this feat is pretty much useless for ‘any good caster’, ie one that diversifies and is only really useful for one that pidgeonholes themselves into one damage type with no supplemental non-damage spells (bonus, zero classes in this doc can cast Evocation spells anyways, which are where you find the vast majority of damage spells). Turning 1s into 2s is a consolation prize at best.

Grappler: I’m still going to note every half-feat I see, I want to emphasize that point as it’s becoming one of the primary points of power creep I can see so far which directly impacts your stated backwards-compatibility goal. This is a considerable improvement on the original feat though.
Great Weapon Master: Still amongst the royalty of feat selections. Replacing the -5/+10 with +Prof once per turn is a safe move, I expected that and it’s fine. But oh look, now it’s a half-feat! Guess what I think of that!
Heavily Armored: Still a pretty poor use of a feat, just have one that bundles together multiple weapon and armor profs
Heavy Armor Master: As expected, prof bonus and works on magical attacks now. Good. But again is now a half-feat, you can’t tell me that this isn’t power creep.
Inspiring Leader: It is my duty to inform you that this feat was already rather good and did not need to be improved by also giving you a stat bump. The exact number of TPH has been altered slightly but that makes it even better at low levels in exchange for being slightly poorer at high levels.
Keen Mind: Study action eh? It’s a half feat so I have to again point that out but you have my interest. This feat is entirely different and I appreciate the attempt, I withhold judgement.
Lightly Armored: Oh so here is where you combine the profs, but you draw the line at heavy? Also, not a half feat so bravo, well done! I suspect this was perhaps a copy-paste error though.
Medium Armor Master: It’s still just one extra AC with a requirement to get it, not a great deal. And what happened to the stealth benefit? Does medium armor just not give disadvantage in the first place now?
Mounted Combatant: A sleeper hit in the original feats, really doesn’t need a +1 to stat thrown on top. I will concede that this one uses your reaction now though.
Observant: Bonus action Search coming up again, I do with the Ranger got that as a counterpart to the Rogue’s Cunning Action. Oh well, I’ll take solace in the fact that the Search action is getting any love at all. Still a half feat, but this one isn’t nearly as egregious as the others.
Polearm Master: Oh dear, another king amongst feats getting more heaped upon it. Doesn’t even specify that your BA attack isn’t supposed to benefit from reach, but quarterstaves don’t qualify anymore so there’s that.
Resilient: This is almost the baseline I think the devs were aiming for rather than an ASI, but whatever. Unchanged, still good and balanced.
Ritual Caster: Is this a joke? It’s of course again a half feat, you learn any two 1st level ritual spells and can cast rituals without additional time. But notice what it DOESN’T do: Let noncasters collect and cast rituals. Excellent oversight there devs, if it was one.
Sentinel: Still as good as it was before, but now comes with a free +1 to Strength or Dexterity! I don’t want to see anyone defending this.
Sharpshooter: This also drops the -5/+10 in favor of copying from crossbow expert, why are they separate feats at this point? Obligatory I-hate-all-these-half-feats comment, and this still just removes mechanics from the player (range, cover) rather than giving them interesting new things to work with.
Shield Master: the Bash is after an attack, but doesn’t use your bonus action now which is a cool trade I think. It’s a half feat which is now affecting my blood pressure and you don’t just add to your dex saves but rather get to use your reaction which I think is also a good step forward.
Skulker: Gives you blindsight which is really neat*, even if this feat doesn’t actually make it easier to hide in the first place it makes you much tougher to nail after you do.
*But you again lose any kudos I would give you by making this a half feat
Speedster: Oh, something new! Well not really, this is Mobile but as a half feat (have I mentioned I think all these half feats are a bad idea) with the restriction of not being able to wear heavy armor for the speed bonus. Thumbs down.
Spell Sniper: See my notes on Sharpshooter, including the bonus stat increase. Funnily enough, this would have been even less desirable if the last playtest went ahead with the few attack roll spells not even being able to crit.
War Caster: As per Sentinel, an already top tier feat that’s just better than before. Could we at least limit the reaction spell to cantrips only?
Weapon Training: Don’t make me laugh. You know what? I’ll take pity and not complain about the +1 Str or Dex for this one, it needs every silver lining it can get.

Epic Boons:
Prerequisites: Oh look at that, limited by class group. How does that operate with multiclassing though? I know MCing has been considered since all the classes come with notes on it.
Combat Prowess: Turn melee miss into hit once per init
Dimensional Travel: Misty Step once per init or rest
Energy Resistance: Damage resistance, changeable per rest
Fortitude: Extra 40 HP, and +Con mod to any healing you receive
Irresistible Offense: Ignore any and all Damage Resistance
Luck: Add d10 to d20 test once per rest
Night Spirit: Action to turn invisible in darkness, broken by taking action or reaction
Peerless Aim: Combat prowess, but for ranged attacks
Recovery: Bonus action regain half your HP once per LR, and pass any death save that isn’t 1
Skill Proficiency: Prof in all skills
Speed: +30’ speed
Undetectability: cannot be detected by any means whilst Hidden
Unfettered: Bonus action Disengage (freeing you from Grappled/Restrained)

Most of these feel pretty lacklustre for your final level, the endgame, and a reward for not multiclassing at all. The only ones that really interest me are Fortitude, Irresistible, Luck and maybe Speed? I definitely don’t think Combat Prowess and Peerless Aim needed to be separate, and some of these would fit much better as improvements to class features rather than trying to be their own thing (Unfettered and Cunning Action for example).

Fighting Styles:
Wait these are just straight up feats now? THESE are the ones that AREN’T half feats? You make me laugh sometimes WOTC you do.
Archery: Unchanged, would have preferred specifically ignoring half cover
Defense: Unchanged, would have preferred ignoring the ‘wear armor’ requirement
Dueling: Unchanged
Great-Weapon: Unchanged, I believe it is established that this isn’t all that great comparatively speaking
Protection: Changed to after the attack, that’s good. Straight -2 instead of Disadvantage, that’s bad. Prof bonus would have been better, or at least the AC granted by the shield so magic shields make it better.
Two-Weapon: Still trash, unless the TWF rules have changed considerably

Spell Lists: I skipped this section. Someone else can comb through it.

Spoiler: Rules Glossary

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Barkskin: Reworked as basically a better version of Heroism as a 2nd level spell, do we know if losing THP but not HP forces concentration checks in this version yet?
Guidance: Now functions as a reaction only when the roll is failed and cannot benefit a creature more than once per LR. Perhaps overcorrecting from the previous version being so good, but I don’t mind.

Ability checks: no auto-pass/auto-fail on 1s and 20s in this version, so that’s nice. Hope we nipped that one in the bud.
Blindsight: Now specifies that you can see, which is important for spells that have the ‘you can see’ line in their descriptions for targeting and the like.
D20 Tests: Inspiration on a 1 instead of a 20, much more a fail-forward sort of mechanic. Halflings are a little shafted by this but otherwise I think its better than the previous iteration
Difficult Terrain: Specifies some examples which is nice
Exhausted: No longer a 6-part track but a single condition, so no longer an outlier and potentially very meaningful for survival type games as well as frenzy barbarians and spell effects. Witholding judgement
Inspiration: I like how it specifies that you can choose to use it after the roll
Hidden: Much appreciated that the stealth rules are getting looked at and consolidated, thumbs up. Advantage on initiative as well as your first attack is a good reason to be hidden but I’m not sure how you could be subject to an attack if you can’t be targeted in the first place? I suppose you can take the attack action while blinded so OK.
Hide: Static DC 15 is interesting, will reserve judgement
Influence: Very interesting, this brings the social pillar of the game into the action economy and by extension the combat pillar. I like the intent, let’s see how it plays out. The sample DCs are welcomed and appreciated.
Jump: Again interesting, disconnected from your movement speed but is its own action with predictable results. Will reserve judgement.
Light: Ah, so TWF is being reworked. No longer does it eat your BA, which will necessitate a deeper examination of the style and feat. However I suspect it still won’t compare favourably Sword & Board or Great Weapon with their respective style + feat options.
Long Rest: You get all Hit Die back now, which I honestly think your average player doesn’t realize isn’t the case now.
Search: Notably includes Insight, Medicine and Survival but has dropped Investigation. Would assessing a creature’s HP or death save status require a Search action?
Study: Ah, right. I don’t see why Search and Study needed to be different actions, that’s likely just going to confuse people.

Closing thought: I do feel like this is much closer to a 5.5e than a 6e at this stage. Some things irk me but on the whole I’m looking forward to what else they have to show us.

Edit: I missed Mage Slayer!
Mage Slayer: Yet Another Half Feat, no more free attacks but instead auto-pass a mental save once per LR. That should have been any rest or prof times per LR at least, it's in a worse position than it was before even if many/most of your reaction attacks were triggered by spells that incapacitated you, removed the caster from harm or otherwise sidestepped it (such as new monsters having magic attacks that aren't spells)

[Ulsan Krow]

I really resent that Thief now has a limited resource Thief's Reflexes.

Isn't one key design tenet of the Rogue that its the one class without resource pools? And the Thief is the iconic Rogue, no less

I prefer the old version though double bonus action for Cunning/Fast Hands is also a very flavorful Thief capstone, just wish it wasn't finite

[animorte]

I'm going to mention this again since nobody seemed to catch it and I haven't witnessed any concern on the matter yet. Specifically referencing the video.

I'm concerned with how the "Inspiration on 1s" is going to work with Halfling's Luck feature...

Does the 1 need to be the official result of the roll in order to gain inspiration? Most likely.

[Psyren]

Yep, Barbarian by a mile.

Damn, I knew I forgot the blue text

Barbarians don't cast spells in the first place, so that's a non sequitur.

I bring it up because Barbarians have far, far fewer ways to get additional attacks per round than Rangers do as a result of not being able to cast or concentrate. So even seemingly small bonuses can go a lot further.

But you can't deny that the Ranger capstone is seriously unimpressive. Druids get Archdruid/Timeless Body, Clerics get an auto-success on Divine Intervention, Fighters get a whole other attack, Wizards get Spell Mastery/Signature Spells, and Rangers get... on average, a +2 to what you've said. It just doesn't compare.

I haven't seen the other powerful capstones, they might be getting nerfed for all we know. Bard was a joke that has been improved, and Rogue got a slight buff. I guess we'll see.

With all that said - sure, I wouldn't say no to a buff to Foe Slayer. But I can understand them being cautious about it, that's all.

[Leon]

There's a lot to unpack here, but one of the biggest I'm seeing is that I struggle to see a purpose to non-polearm two-handed weapons.

Spoiler

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GWM was oft-maligned for hitting well beyond expected damage thresholds, sure, but as it stands, THF now barely eeks out ahead of Dueling, except Dueling also gets a shield for much better AC (and possibly an insane spike in AC if any magic shields are around). TWF is better, but not markedly so. It's bad action economy was a secondary sin to just not doing very much.

Two-Hander with Great Weapon Fighting= 2d6 with rerollable 1's and 2's for an expected 8.33 average.
Two-Weapons with Two-Weapon Fighting= 2d6 with anywhere from +0 to +5, anywhere from 7 to 12 average.
Sword n' Board with Dueling= 1d8+2 for an expected 6.5 average.

At low levels and expecting a 16 in the relevant ability score, these are 11.33, 13, and 9.5. This isn't entirely a new problem, but I really don't feel like these numbers should be as close as they are. 3.5 average damage per round in exchange for 2 AC? And not even 2 extra points of damage for the two-hander. And TWF's numbers are a little suspect, because this doesn't include to-hit calcs: they're less likely to fail to deal damage, and a little more likely to not hit their maximums. Depends on the target and luck.

Once Extra Attack kicks in we're at something like 24.33 (if GWM has been taken and an 18 hasn't been reached, 26.33 if it has), 17 (if Dual Wielder has been taken and an 18 hasn't been reached, 20 if it has), and 19 (if the duelist decided they had better things to do than improve their Str/Dex, 21 if they didn't). A Fighter is statistically better giving up TWF, retraining for Dueling and switching to a sword and board at level 5, there is nearly zero advantage in maintaining that style. The difference is approximately 5.33 damage.

I'm feeling like my real problem is with Dueling being too good, Great Weapon Fighting being too uninspired (and too fiddly for what little extra utility it brings), and TWF still scaling like crap. Without GWM's -5/+10 it's just a lot more pronounced.

Then your too narrowed in on what's "optimal" to see the broader set of options a character/player may have because its what seems best/cool/suits the character.


Well that was a lot of changes and not a lot of it is better:
Ranger overall is, spells and Cantrips from Lvl 1 is nice, tho the reduction in Fighting styles is a step backwards almost to 3.5 where you were a Archer or a TWF and given how lame the TWF style still is its effectively only got a choice of two (which are both very good), The Integration of the Tasha's era optional features as mainline is good in the speed and expertise. Favored Enemy is better but still a lot less than it could have been. Hunter Subclasses strength was its choices and they have gone, so the subclass is much less interesting for the loss of them (i suspect loss of choice is going to be a big factor in this edition)

Oof, poor poor bards, sinking ever lower into the bland spellcaster shizzle

Rogue seems more or less the same (nice to see UMD back although it being limited to one Subclasses Mid level ability is a bit naff)

Epic Boons? More like Epic Bland's.
Rest of the feats are ok, the arbitrarily level locking on some of them seems a bit weird.
Crossbow Expert is good that you either have this or sharpshooter to get the ability to shoot in close quarters and both offer a different thing for also having that gain.
Polearm Masters actually using Polearms and Wizards remembering that the Pike has a butt.
Heavy Armour Master is cool
Mage slayer works at all ranges now and might actually be worth taking
Medium Armour Master has me wondering if Half Plate no longer has a Stealth disadvantage
Ritual caster seems to miss the point about them being you know rituals and not needing a spellslot, i guess this means that rituals got a nerf.
Weapon Training is what Weapon Master should have been called all along.

Barkskin worthy of a spellslot again

[JackPhoenix]

Weapon Training: Don’t make me laugh. You know what? I’ll take pity and not complain about the +1 Str or Dex for this one, it needs every silver lining it can get.

Come to think of it, it only gives martial weapons now, so maybe everyoneone gets all simple weapons (which now include shortsword)?

Epic Boons:
Prerequisites: Oh look at that, limited by class group. How does that operate with multiclassing though? I know MCing has been considered since all the classes come with notes on it.

It doesn't. You won't get epic boon if you multiclass, as they are gained at level 20 in a single class. No multiclass, no multiple class groups to worry about.

Also, I have a suspicion passive Perception (or anything) is simply not a thing anymore, especially in the light of Inspiration gain on 1/20/whatever.

[Ortho]

With all that said - sure, I wouldn't say no to a buff to Foe Slayer. But I can understand them being cautious about it, that's all.

The way it stands currently, there's a 60% chance that it's not actually more impressive than what you could do at 1st level. In my opinion, capstones should be definitive, not...this.

[Pex]

Right so I made sure to read through and record my thoughts before coming back here, hopefully avoids some bias.

Class groupings: Good idea, can be worked with
Feats: Definitely default now, no optional about it. That’s OK
Spell lists: I liked the concept, let’s see the execution

Spoiler: Bard

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Inspiration: Uses a reaction now, interesting. Adding to a test is good and expected, healing is potentially the Healing Word problem but worse. Uses Prof rather than Cha now, as expected
Spellcasting: Arcane list but only half of the schools. This negates the benefit of having the list in the first place, since you have to check if your spell selections are valid. We are back to preparing spells split by level rather than a number you can distribute as you please, and I don’t like that. Replacing a spell with a long rest is expected after Tasha’s.
Songs of Restoration: No longer an actual feature, now just ‘get X spells’. Thumbs down, doubly so if this becomes a trend (and I suspect it will). Again dunks on short rests.
Countercharm: Completely gone, which I suppose makes sense as in its prior form it wasn’t worth the action and now Bardic Inspiration is taking up your reactions
Font of Inspiration: Takes an extra two levels which sucks mightily. But hey, short rests are still a thing I suppose
Magical Secrets: Slight restriction to any two spells from one list, but otherwise the same
Superior Bardic Inspiration: Yep, that’s a capstone
Epic Boon: I will have to go over them, but sounds fun
Subclass: It appears there is a standard pattern of 3, 6, 10 and 14 now, that’s good.
Expertise, Feats, Jack of All Trades: Nothing to say

Lore Bard:
Bonus Profs: as expected
Cutting words: as expected
Cunning Inspiration: advantage on the inspiration die, nice
Improved cutting words: a bit of damage as a rider, not bad but not great
Peerless skill: Inspire yourself for ability checks, and if you fail it isn’t wasted. Again not bad, waiting to compare with the Rogue

Spoiler: Ranger

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Favored Enemy: No longer an actual feature, now just ‘get X spells’. Thumbs down, doubly so if this becomes a trend (two for two for those of you keeping track at home)
Natural Explorer: Completely gone, you get Expertise instead. Fine by me.
Spellcasting: You get cantrips now! Primal list but not evocation spells. This negates the benefit of having the list in the first place, since you have to check if your spell selections are valid. We are back to preparing spells split by level rather than a number you can distribute as you please, and I don’t like that. Replacing a spell with a long rest is expected after Tasha’s.
Subclass: It appears there is a standard pattern of 3, 6, 10 and 14 now, that’s good.
Roving: Fine, but climbing and swimming are handled by second level spells so a bit late on that front.
Tireless: Two good reasons to Short Rest, huzzah! Only had to wait until level 11 for it!
Nature’s Veil: Uses a spell slot, that’s not good. This is the level the Bard gets his recommended Etherealness, and you’re still replicating 2nd level spells.
Foe Slayer: Wow, an extra 2 average damage per hit when you spend your slots, action and attention doing your level 1 trick. I’d laugh if it weren’t so sad.
Epic Boon: I will have to go over them, but sounds fun
Fighting Style, Feats, Extra Attack: Nothing to say

Hunter Ranger:
Hunter’s Prey: It’s just colossus slayer but you don’t get a choice anymore. Whoopee.
Hunter’s Lore: Pretty neat, and I think this should be a standard Ranger feature
Multiattack: No longer an actual feature, now just ‘get X spells’. Thumbs down, doubly so if this becomes a trend (and this is even worse!)
Superior Hunter’s Defense: There wasn’t a regular Hunter’s Defense my guys. Anyways, neat being able to redirect it as well as halving the damage (before or after resistance?)

Spoiler: Rogue

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Sneak Attack: Thankyou for wording it more clearly! Can only sneak attack with the Attack action now, which is notable.
Thieves Cant: Now comes with some other language. Buy one, get one free!
Cunning Action: No change, still great. Notably we don’t have the Tasha’s Snipe option.
Subclass: It appears there is a standard pattern of 3, 6, 10 and 14 now, that’s good.
Uncanny Dodge: No change, still great
Evasion: Two levels later, which sucks quite a bit. Still a good feature though
Reliable Talent: No change, still good
Subtle Strikes: replaces Blindsense, and I think it’s a change for the better
Slippery Mind: Another buy one, get one free so that’s nice.
Elusive: No change, still good
Stroke of Luck: Now applies to all d20 tests and can get you a guaranteed Critical Hit. Ironically this is one of the times I would have really liked to see Prof times per LR
Epic Boon: I will have to go over them, but sounds fun
Expertise, Feats: Nothing to say

Thief Rogue:
Fast Hands: Bonus Action search should have been a ranger thing! Damnit! Also, no more fun stuff like bonus action use an item which sucks out a lot of the fun
Second Storey Work: Climbing 4 levels before the Rang– wait wait wait Jump ACTION?
Supreme Sneak: OK fine, but you don’t have proficiency in those anyways
Use Magic Device: Doesn’t actually let you attune to things that would ordinarily be restricted. Still, extra attunement plus potentially free charges is cool if DM/campaign reliant.
Thiefs Reflexes: Makes much more sense than additional turns, but I don’t see why you need the Prof times per day limitation at level 14. Cmon guys, I wouldn’t worry about MCing shenanigans at this stage, unless you don’t have faith in your Bonus-Action-granting feats?

Spoiler: Feats, Styles & Boons

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Prerequisite: Missing a huge opportunity to limit certain feats to class groupings here.

Ability Score Improvement: The yardstick
Actor: Ugh, we still have half feats. That’s such a cake-and-eat-it move, if you can’t find a way to justify a whole feats worth of actual abilities then axe or merge it! This is a great example actually.
Athlete: Half feat again, Climb speed again dunking on Ranger 7, and that Jump action again. This concerns me
Charger: Half feat again, but otherwise this seems an alright feat actually.
Crossbow Expert: HALF FEAT AGAIN, but this appears to drop the BA attack so that’s good
Defensive Duelist: HALF. FEAT. AGAIN. Reaction for Prof Bonus against one attack is not a favourable trade, especially once you factor other reactions you may have from race/class and that it’s restricted to finesse weapons and melee attacks.
Dual Wielder: Okay guys please stop with the half feats. It’s OK to make us CHOOSE if we want numbers or abilities without just giving us both. Show some restraint. Also, I think this version may actually be worse than the original?
Durable: See above notes on half feats. I think it’s a crutch and I don’t like them. This feat actually looks pretty great but also obviates short rests even more, so that’s a well played double-edged sword against me there.
Elemental Adept: No I won’t shut up about half feats. Thing is, this feat is pretty much useless for ‘any good caster’, ie one that diversifies and is only really useful for one that pidgeonholes themselves into one damage type with no supplemental non-damage spells (bonus, zero classes in this doc can cast Evocation spells anyways, which are where you find the vast majority of damage spells). Turning 1s into 2s is a consolation prize at best.

Grappler: I’m still going to note every half-feat I see, I want to emphasize that point as it’s becoming one of the primary points of power creep I can see so far which directly impacts your stated backwards-compatibility goal. This is a considerable improvement on the original feat though.
Great Weapon Master: Still amongst the royalty of feat selections. Replacing the -5/+10 with +Prof once per turn is a safe move, I expected that and it’s fine. But oh look, now it’s a half-feat! Guess what I think of that!
Heavily Armored: Still a pretty poor use of a feat, just have one that bundles together multiple weapon and armor profs
Heavy Armor Master: As expected, prof bonus and works on magical attacks now. Good. But again is now a half-feat, you can’t tell me that this isn’t power creep.
Inspiring Leader: It is my duty to inform you that this feat was already rather good and did not need to be improved by also giving you a stat bump. The exact number of TPH has been altered slightly but that makes it even better at low levels in exchange for being slightly poorer at high levels.
Keen Mind: Study action eh? It’s a half feat so I have to again point that out but you have my interest. This feat is entirely different and I appreciate the attempt, I withhold judgement.
Lightly Armored: Oh so here is where you combine the profs, but you draw the line at heavy? Also, not a half feat so bravo, well done! I suspect this was perhaps a copy-paste error though.
Medium Armor Master: It’s still just one extra AC with a requirement to get it, not a great deal. And what happened to the stealth benefit? Does medium armor just not give disadvantage in the first place now?
Mounted Combatant: A sleeper hit in the original feats, really doesn’t need a +1 to stat thrown on top. I will concede that this one uses your reaction now though.
Observant: Bonus action Search coming up again, I do with the Ranger got that as a counterpart to the Rogue’s Cunning Action. Oh well, I’ll take solace in the fact that the Search action is getting any love at all. Still a half feat, but this one isn’t nearly as egregious as the others.
Polearm Master: Oh dear, another king amongst feats getting more heaped upon it. Doesn’t even specify that your BA attack isn’t supposed to benefit from reach, but quarterstaves don’t qualify anymore so there’s that.
Resilient: This is almost the baseline I think the devs were aiming for rather than an ASI, but whatever. Unchanged, still good and balanced.
Ritual Caster: Is this a joke? It’s of course again a half feat, you learn any two 1st level ritual spells and can cast rituals without additional time. But notice what it DOESN’T do: Let noncasters collect and cast rituals. Excellent oversight there devs, if it was one.
Sentinel: Still as good as it was before, but now comes with a free +1 to Strength or Dexterity! I don’t want to see anyone defending this.
Sharpshooter: This also drops the -5/+10 in favor of copying from crossbow expert, why are they separate feats at this point? Obligatory I-hate-all-these-half-feats comment, and this still just removes mechanics from the player (range, cover) rather than giving them interesting new things to work with.
Shield Master: the Bash is after an attack, but doesn’t use your bonus action now which is a cool trade I think. It’s a half feat which is now affecting my blood pressure and you don’t just add to your dex saves but rather get to use your reaction which I think is also a good step forward.
Skulker: Gives you blindsight which is really neat*, even if this feat doesn’t actually make it easier to hide in the first place it makes you much tougher to nail after you do.
*But you again lose any kudos I would give you by making this a half feat
Speedster: Oh, something new! Well not really, this is Mobile but as a half feat (have I mentioned I think all these half feats are a bad idea) with the restriction of not being able to wear heavy armor for the speed bonus. Thumbs down.
Spell Sniper: See my notes on Sharpshooter, including the bonus stat increase. Funnily enough, this would have been even less desirable if the last playtest went ahead with the few attack roll spells not even being able to crit.
War Caster: As per Sentinel, an already top tier feat that’s just better than before. Could we at least limit the reaction spell to cantrips only?
Weapon Training: Don’t make me laugh. You know what? I’ll take pity and not complain about the +1 Str or Dex for this one, it needs every silver lining it can get.

Epic Boons:
Prerequisites: Oh look at that, limited by class group. How does that operate with multiclassing though? I know MCing has been considered since all the classes come with notes on it.
Combat Prowess: Turn melee miss into hit once per init
Dimensional Travel: Misty Step once per init or rest
Energy Resistance: Damage resistance, changeable per rest
Fortitude: Extra 40 HP, and +Con mod to any healing you receive
Irresistible Offense: Ignore any and all Damage Resistance
Luck: Add d10 to d20 test once per rest
Night Spirit: Action to turn invisible in darkness, broken by taking action or reaction
Peerless Aim: Combat prowess, but for ranged attacks
Recovery: Bonus action regain half your HP once per LR, and pass any death save that isn’t 1
Skill Proficiency: Prof in all skills
Speed: +30’ speed
Undetectability: cannot be detected by any means whilst Hidden
Unfettered: Bonus action Disengage (freeing you from Grappled/Restrained)

Most of these feel pretty lacklustre for your final level, the endgame, and a reward for not multiclassing at all. The only ones that really interest me are Fortitude, Irresistible, Luck and maybe Speed? I definitely don’t think Combat Prowess and Peerless Aim needed to be separate, and some of these would fit much better as improvements to class features rather than trying to be their own thing (Unfettered and Cunning Action for example).

Fighting Styles:
Wait these are just straight up feats now? THESE are the ones that AREN’T half feats? You make me laugh sometimes WOTC you do.
Archery: Unchanged, would have preferred specifically ignoring half cover
Defense: Unchanged, would have preferred ignoring the ‘wear armor’ requirement
Dueling: Unchanged
Great-Weapon: Unchanged, I believe it is established that this isn’t all that great comparatively speaking
Protection: Changed to after the attack, that’s good. Straight -2 instead of Disadvantage, that’s bad. Prof bonus would have been better, or at least the AC granted by the shield so magic shields make it better.
Two-Weapon: Still trash, unless the TWF rules have changed considerably

Many people didn't like having to choose between an ASI and a feat. If they're keeping that choice making all feats a half-feat is a good option. The math of the game matters. You don't absolutely need an 18 in your prime at low levels, but you do need the 18 eventually. Getting it through feats adds spice to your character instead of just plain vanilla ASI. Nothing wrong with vanilla ASI, but players like feats and are not wrong for liking them. The fighting styles don't get a +1 ability score because they are 1st level feats. No 1st level feats give a +1 ability score. They give a nice boon to Human warriors. It's still to be determined when warriors classes get them as a likely class feature, but presuming they get them early like fighter and paladin get them now a human warrior does well with two fighting styles. Using custom background any low level warrior have two to play with while human warriors can have three. That's cool.

[Rukelnikov]

In general, dissapoint with the scale and scope of changes, this is definitely 5.5 and not 6e.

There's a lot to talk about, but most of it doesn't merit doing so IMO, speaking about balance is patch notes stuff not new edition stuff. On what I consider "new edition stuff":

Groups don't seem as important at least as of this UA, I consider it a missed opportunity not to make certain previously class features available to all the group via group gated feats (Reliable Talent is a perfect example of something that wouldn't be out of place in any of the 3 archetypes represented by the Expert group, yet its still Rogue gated).

I like the intention of certain streamlinings like subclass features all being gained at the same level, as that makes it easier in the future to attempt stuff like, making subclassess that can be taken by different classes, but we'll have to wait and see if the advantages the streamlining could bring will be made use of.

There's still the presence of class features disguised as spells (Hunter's Mark) which is something I thought they were gonna get rid of by the apparent lack of EB as a Cantrip.

Some extra codification for some skills, I may not agree with the examples and numbers, but that's implementation layer, design layer I'm ok with it (and btw, that's my overall sentiment with the UA as a whole, considering it as a .5 edition, since nothing of what was shown merits calling this a new edition).

One implementation layer complaint I have though, is UMD getting butchered. I love thieves, I've played 2 in 5e, and many in previous editions, thieves eventually becoming weird casters with staves in their hands has been a thing for at least 2 decades, this new UMD is not necesarily weaker, since a 4th attunement slot is strong, but its much more limiting in scope.

And one thing I've seen people mention is XBE redundancy with TWF style. From my reading, there's nothing preventing both, so if you had both, you'd add your Dex twice to the bonus attack with the "off-hand" hand xbow. Same as currently you can be a Dragon Sorc/Celestial Lock and add your Cha twice to Firebolt.

Another thing I've read many comments about is them slipping "bad rules" so they can "gain credit"(?) for ruling back on those when people complaint. While I can certainly see that point of view, I think cynism may be blinding to other possibilities. When a system is in "equilibrium" individual changes may all lead to a worse state, yet a combination of them may lead to better states. Because even though its bad in isolation it interacts interestingly with other aspects. If the feedback says, well new X rule feels worse/clunkier than before, but it does make Y rule feel a lot better. Then we can examine the good part, and try to extract the core of why it makes the other part better.

Also, putting a bad rule willingly may serve a lot of other pourposes, i.e.: "we put this bad rule to use a thermometer on how in tune we are with the playerbase and on the kind of feedback we are receiving, we expect people to complain about this in the surveys, if they don't we may not be getting what they want/care for, or they may not be seeing the game as we do and/or think they do. And if they do complain, we get the feedback of why they don't like it, which serves as a certain confirmation that we are in tune with peoples expectations."

Predictions/hopes for following material:

Sorcerers will use spell points, period.

Multiple tries on subjects that seem to have been improved/changed.

Changes on XP/Advancement mechanics, hopefully milestone being the default or at least getting a bit more word count (I have the idea they had already said something about this point, but can't really remember)

Greater weight to narrative driven features like blessings, boons(in their 5e incarnation), charms (this may be too hopeful)

[Kane0]

It doesn't. You won't get epic boon if you multiclass, as they are gained at level 20 in a single class. No multiclass, no multiple class groups to worry about.

Ah, but a DM can still manually provide Boons to players, plus potentially other sources of them (they're just feats by another name now). I know DMs aren't bound by any rule, but if you wanted to try and follow them would you be able to provide from based on the categories of your class at level 1, all classes combined, one of your choice, or the last class level you took?

Many people didn't like having to choose between an ASI and a feat. If they're keeping that choice making all feats a half-feat is a good option. The math of the game matters. You don't absolutely need an 18 in your prime at low levels, but you do need the 18 eventually. Getting it through feats adds spice to your character instead of just plain vanilla ASI. Nothing wrong with vanilla ASI, but players like feats and are not wrong for liking them. The fighting styles don't get a +1 ability score because they are 1st level feats. No 1st level feats give a +1 ability score. They give a nice boon to Human warriors. It's still to be determined when warriors classes get them as a likely class feature, but presuming they get them early like fighter and paladin get them now a human warrior does well with two fighting styles. Using custom background any low level warrior have two to play with while human warriors can have three. That's cool.

- Of course people like getting stuff. It's part of a game dev's job to temper the monty haul instinct.
- Getting an 18 sooner rather than later isn't a problem using the new methods of level 1 stat generation
- The original idea was that ASIs and feats compete, throwing a +1 on everything is power creep and that impacts backwards compatibility
- Once you hit 20 in your stat(s) the incentives to pick certain feats noticeably shift
- Fighting Styles indeed compare more favorably to the other level 1 feats rather than the 4th level ones, i'd put them around the middle of the spread.

Edit: oopsie, forgot one
- We are already getting a free feat at level 1 now instead of background ribbon

[Rukelnikov]

Ah, but a DM can still manually provide Boons to players, plus potentially other sources of them (they're just feats by another name now). I know DMs aren't bound by any rule, but if you wanted to try and follow them would you be able to provide from based on the categories of your class at level 1, all classes combined, one of your choice, or the last class level you took?

They are treated as feats now, and in the Parts of a Feat section says "If a prerequisite is a Class or a Class Group, you must have at least 1 level in an eligible Class to qualify for the Feat", so Rog1/Clr19, can take Expert Epic Boons.

[Jervis]

I wonder if we’re getting mages next? If we do it’ll be easy to extrapolate what else is gonna change. I mostly just want to see sorcerer/warloc/wizard because the changes to those matter the most for homebrewing. Mainly a homebrew class I’ve been working on for a while that the new rules make ironically more in line with what is expected.

[Sigreid]

*Pex uses Trigger on Dr. Samurai, it's Super Effective!*

Some other thoughts now that I can read through this thing a bit more:

1. Bards

Bards continue to offend my delicate and sophisticated sensibilities. Why... why can they do everything?

Full spellcaster? Check
From different spell lists? Check
Start with any 3 Skills? Check
Four Expertise picks? Check
Half Prof on anything else? Check
Healing spells always prepared? Check
Raise an ally back from 0hp as a Reaction? Check
Weapon and Armor proficiencies and Extra Attack with a subclass? Check

It's obscene. I don't even care if they're not overpowered with all of it, it's just inappropriate *fans himself*.

2. Ranger

Eh... I wonder more and more why this class exists. Like, I don't play these classes because I don't want to cast spells. But if you're going to be magical, just be magical. Being a fighter-lite+slow spell progression is weak sauce. At least Paladins get Smites and Immunities and Auras. Rangers should have some straight up magical features before level 13 that are better than "casts Hunter's Mark better". And TWF needs to go, it doesn't make sense as hunter's don't hunt prey by dual-wielding light weapons. Rangers should be Archery or Spear style. Anyways, not much more to say here.

3. Rogue

I love that Experts are described as having features and elements from other classes and Rogue is like "huh?" while Bard is like "ohhh yeaaah!".

4. I would have much preferred detaching ASIs from feats completely. Oh well, at least they masked that it is still the same exact thing so now I might forgot at some point...

5. Charger - Why? Why remove the attack on a dash feature? I literally have this feat right now on my Rune Knight (along with Mobile). I enjoy getting to where I need to go quickly, and even if obstacles are in the way. My approach to combat is that I should own the battlefield and little should stop my character from getting anywhere and bringing the pain lol. Dash increases speed and jump potential, and Charger lets me attack or push after that. Why remove this? Similar to Jump-as-Action, this is removing mobility or Actions from the martials.

6. Defensive Duelist - No idea why this is restricted to Finesse weapons only. Glad it's a half feat though.

7. Epic Boons - For all the customization in this edition, why are Epic Boons gated behind class grouping? So my Wild Soul Barbarian is tapping into the Feywild to gain powers at random when he rages but he can't gain Misty Step 1/Initiative? Eh... okay.

8. Fighting Styles - Suck. They don't compare to Expertise, or Channel Divinity, or whatever the Mages are going to get. This is not sufficient to be the "Warrior" thing. Get creative with Fighting Styles.

9. Grappler - Good feat. Combined with an unarmed strike you can get yourself Advantage on your follow-up attacks. And I like not being Slowed while grappling/moving as well.

10. Great Weapon Master - Still seems like you'll need it, but now it's a bit boring.

11. Heavily Armored - Tack Str 15 to the prerequisites and I'm down for it

12. Lightly Armored - Lmao, so every caster that doesn't have medium armor will just grab this at level 1?

13. Polearm Master - Why isn't this bonus action attack the case for all styles?

14. Sharpshooter - Shouldn't have "Bypass Cover".

15. Skulker - Did the darkvision rules change? Not having DA on perception checks with Darkvision is a big perk for a skulker. Not sure why it was removed.

16. Exhausted Condition - Unless the Berserker gets to shave off Exhaustion other than on a long rest, still not worth Frenzying too often.

17. Grappled - A saving throw at the end of each turn makes this less reliable than current grappling, but affecting their attacks is a slight buff. I'd probably prefer current grappling rules to the new one.

18. Help - I don't think it should require proficiency in the skill to assist someone. Doesn't make sense, and means that you need redundant proficiencies to make use of Help.

19. Jump - I've already commented on this but shouldn't be an Action and the skill check is a major nerf, as we've all discussed here ad nauseum how slowly skill checks improve for martials. I suggested earlier that a character should be able to use their Strength score in place of the check if they want.

20. Light Weapon - I like the attack being a part of the Attack action, as opposed to a bonus action. Good idea.

21. Study - I love that you can make these checks about monsters.

I've never liked that the bard gets to play with everyone else's toys.

[animewatcha]

Does monk being in warrior group mean that they are gonna get d10 hit dice?

[Psyren]

Dos monk being in warrior group mean that they are gonna get d10 hit dice?

By Irori/Zuoken I hope so.

I wonder if we’re getting mages next? If we do it’ll be easy to extrapolate what else is gonna change. I mostly just want to see sorcerer/warloc/wizard because the changes to those matter the most for homebrewing. Mainly a homebrew class I’ve been working on for a while that the new rules make ironically more in line with what is expected.

I'd say we have a loooooong wait until then. The survey doesn't even open until 10/20, and the last one was open for a month too, with this UA not being released until after the last survey closed.

Granted, they may want us testing multiple class groupings simultaneously - I certainly wouldn't mind that!

I've never liked that the bard gets to play with everyone else's toys.

They're quite literally jacks of all trades...

[animewatcha]

Do Opportunity attacks use your reaction by default or did sentinel get 'whoopsie' buffed by not needing reaction?