One D&D - Spell List Analysis (Gains and Losses By Class)

[KorvinStarmast]

So all the arcane casters gonna be walking around with familiars. Imagine a party of 4-6 with 2-4+ owls

Yeah. And they'll die frequently.

They do have Dancing Lights instead as that is an illusion now.

Bards already have dancing lights now: I discovered in play that it's a poor spell, specifically as it requires concentration.
Dancing Lights requires concentration, Light does not.
Bard spells are heavy into conc as it is ... DL is useless after about level 2.

[Psyren]

Bards already have dancing lights now: I discovered in play that it's a poor spell, specifically as it requires concentration.
Dancing Lights requires concentration, Light does not.
Bard spells are heavy into conc as it is ... DL is useless after about level 2.

Yeah, it's almost as though Bards are supposed to be worse at magic than the other full casters or something. What's the issue again?

[Slipjig]

This is functionality they sorely need. They have some gaping holes as a primary caster, e.g. being the only caster that can't dispel magic, the only arcanists that can't counterspell or summon or teleport, the only healer that can't cast Heal or rez etc.

Actually, I'm totally okay with those gaps. I don't think the Bard generally SHOULD be able to go toe-to-toe with a Wizard in counterspell duels, or be as good at healing as the Cleric. I do think they should have Dispel Magic, but maybe only as a ritual. If you have multiple classes with identical overlap in their spell lists, why are they different classes?

Frankly, I LIKE the fact that both the Bard and Artificer have a more limited spell list, it gives their magic a distinct flavor. I'd like to see Wizard do something similar.

[Psyren]

Actually, I'm totally okay with those gaps. I don't think the Bard generally SHOULD be able to go toe-to-toe with a Wizard in counterspell duels, or be as good at healing as the Cleric.

In case the blue text above didn't make it clear, I'm okay with the Bard list having these large gaps as well. 9th-level-spells or not, at the end of the day they are Experts.

A bard can be your group's only offensive caster, much like it can be your group's only frontliner or healer, but that doesn't mean your group will have an easy time.

Frankly, I LIKE the fact that both the Bard and Artificer have a more limited spell list, it gives their magic a distinct flavor. I'd like to see Wizard do something similar.

I've very curious what they do with Wizard, especially since it looks like every caster is going to be prepared now.

The main disadvantage of being prepared from 3.5 - needing to predict how much of a given spell you might need ahead of time each day - is gone in 5e.

[KorvinStarmast]

Yeah, it's almost as though Bards are supposed to be worse at magic than the other full casters or something. What's the issue again?

Concentration, that's the issue. They got rid of it off of guidance, it needs to go away for Dancing lights. And given that your snide remark about bards is wrong, I do not see this line of discussion being in the least bit productive.

[Psyren]

Concentration, that's the issue. They got rid of it off of guidance, it needs to go away for Dancing lights. And given that your snide remark about bards is wrong, I do not see this line of discussion being in the least bit productive.

It's not wrong. They have to wait until level 11 to get pretty foundational full caster tools, and even then, face huge tradeoffs for doing so. They are the worst full caster in terms of spell list by a mile, and will be so for the majority of most campaigns - which means their placement as Experts fits perfectly.

[Slipjig]

I'm not a fan of going full Vancian prepared. When I prep my spell list, I realize that I'm PROBABLY going to spend all my Level 1 slots on Healing Word, but I like the fact that I can have a few oddball spells like Snare or Skywrite in reserve just in case an opportunity comes up to use them.

[KorvinStarmast]

I'm not a fan of going full Vancian prepared. When I prep my spell list, I realize that I'm PROBABLY going to spend all my Level 1 slots on Healing Word, but I like the fact that I can have a few oddball spells like Snare or Skywrite in reserve just in case an opportunity comes up to use them.

Skywrite being a ritual is handy. (That's from Xanathar's, though).