I never forget a face...

[Riftwolf]

Just an odd thought I had,

Blackwing is currently just hanging out in the chasm where Xykon et al have been dealing with the Quinton. Xykon, as was established in SoD, is more observant than he appears (because there's a difference between noticing something and caring about it).
What if Xykon remembers Blackwing, the bird who almost destroyed his phylactery, and just isn't letting on that he's noticed them yet?

[ZhonLord]

I would agree it's a possibility, however good Spot and Listen checks don't come naturally in 3.5. xykon would have to spend the skill points, and I'm fairly certain he's invested them elsewhere.

He does have a +8 racial bonus to listen checks, but even with that he took a while to find the invisible Varsuvius - who actually snuck part him once and almost got away on the return sneak. This implies that xykon is basically depending on that lich bonus, not using skill points for it.

Therefore the only way he'd reasonably notice Blackwing is either on a nat 20 or if one of the others point him out to the lich.

[Metastachydium]

Well, Xykon does have an effective +10 to Spot (+8 racial, +1 WIS from template, +1 WIS from age) before adjustments for base stats and skill ranks. Spot, however, is not a class skill for sorcerers.

Opposite him, we have Blackwing. He has an effective +10 to Hide (+8 size, +2 DEX) before adjustments for base stats and skill ranks by virtue of being a raven (Hide is not a raven skill); Xykon is arguably distracted (he's having two conversations) – this gives Blackwing another 5 for a +15 and that's not counting the Giant only knows (and likely not even the Giant, in fact) how many +1s for distance. If we calculate with a distance of 100' (a very generous estimate) that's already a +25.

Accordingly, Xykon would need to have 27+ levels and his cross-class Spot maxed out to have the same modifier to Spot that a hypothetical Blackwing perching 100' from him has for Hide, and that calculation is very kind to Xykon in its assumptions. Consequently, I doubt that he could spot the birdy before the birdy took flight. After that, well Blackwing still has distance and distraction on his side, which, using the same (improbable) 100' figure for the former still leaves Blackwing with a +15. I like his chances of remaining unnoticed.

Edit: As for Listen, Xykon has the same numbers, whereas Blackwing also gets the same bonuses for distance and distraction, but he can also continue to use Move Silently even after taking to wing, which is another +2 from DEX before base stats and skill ranks. This configuration favours our birdy even more than the previous one.

[Malfarian]

Just an odd thought I had,

Blackwing is currently just hanging out in the chasm where Xykon et al have been dealing with the Quinton. Xykon, as was established in SoD, is more observant than he appears (because there's a difference between noticing something and caring about it).
What if Xykon remembers Blackwing, the bird who almost destroyed his phylactery, and just isn't letting on that he's noticed them yet?

I really don't see him as having the self-control for that, but I could be wrong.

[Fyraltari]

I really don't see him as having the self-control for that, but I could be wrong.

If you haven't read SoD, you should it's great. And the ending shows that Xykon definitely knows to keep his cards close to his chest.

[InvisibleBison]

It doesn't really matter how good Xykon's Spot is, because Blackwing isn't hiding. You don't need to make Spot checks to see someone who's out in the open.

[brian 333]

The question here is, are there other crows at the North Pole?

Crows are common in the northern hemisphere, and I defy you to distinguish one from another. However, if there is only one, and you have a grudge against a particular one, I defy you to explain how that one is maybe, probably, not the one you have a grudge against.

I find it far more unlikely that he will assume a random, singular crow is not the one he hates.

[Fyraltari]

The question here is, are there other crows at the North Pole?

Crows are common in the northern hemisphere, and I defy you to distinguish one from another. However, if there is only one, and you have a grudge against a particular one, I defy you to explain how that one is maybe, probably, not the one you have a grudge against.

I find it far more unlikely that he will assume a random, singular crow is not the one he hates.

There's a crow around there!?

[Mechalich]

The Common Raven - let's assume that's what Blackwing is an not something more complicated - has an extensive range including some very northerly territories. Additionally, because ravens are not above opportunistic scavenging a dungeon complex likely to source a significant quantity of corpses ought to draw a fairly extensive population in to the area. So Blackwing probably isn't the only raven in the general vicinity, and while I wouldn't put it past Xykon to abuse Ray of Frost by blasting every small animal he came across, he probably got bored of doing that long before the Order arrived.

[Metastachydium]

It doesn't really matter how good Xykon's Spot is, because Blackwing isn't hiding. You don't need to make Spot checks to see someone who's out in the open.

Well, for as long as he's perching, he might be. We don't know. And afterwards, distance and distraction penalties still apply.

[WanderingMist]

I find it far more unlikely that he will assume a random, singular crow is not the one he hates.

I wouldn't put it past him to not just kill every similar-looking bird out of spite.

[brian 333]

There's a crow around there!?

I defy you to see any all-black corvid at a distance and tell me which breed it is. Sure, sitting side by side, a raven is bigger and huskier than a crow. And ravens are more likely to be working on a NY Times crossword puzzle than a crow. And, yes, a crow is more likely to be smoking a cigar while wearing a straw hat in a Disney film. And, sure, if you are a dwarf you can probably talk to a raven. And let's not get started on magpies.

Wait, I had a point...

[InvisibleBison]

Well, for as long as he's perching, he might be. We don't know.

Actually, we do know. "You need cover or concealment" in order to hide, and Blackwing quite clearly has neither.

And afterwards, distance and distraction penalties still apply.

No, they don't. The Spot skill rules clearly outline all the situations where you need to make a Spot check, and noticing someone in the open is not one of them.

[Fyraltari]

I defy you to see any all-black corvid at a distance and tell me which breed it is.

Well, Blackwing isn't actually all-black, is he, now? So I am going to say yellow-billed chough.

Edit: Or red-billed, depending on which coulour you'd say his beak's shade is closest to.

[Metastachydium]

Actually, we do know. "You need cover or concealment" in order to hide, and Blackwing quite clearly ha

His position relative to Team Evil might provide a degree of cover. It's all about angles.

No, they don't. The Spot skill rules clearly outline all the situations where you need to make a Spot check, and noticing someone in the open is not one of them.

Funny you would say that.

Typically, your Spot check is opposed by the Hide check of the creature trying not to be seen. Sometimes a creature isn’t intentionally hiding but is still difficult to see, so a successful Spot check is necessary to notice it.

(…)

Spot checks may be called for to determine the distance at which an encounter begins. A penalty applies on such checks, depending on the distance between the two individuals or groups, and an additional penalty may apply if the character making the Spot check is distracted (not concentrating on being observant).

All emphases mine. I stand by my analysis.

Well, Blackwing isn't actually all-black, is he, now? So I am going to say yellow-billed chough.

Edit: Or red-billed, depending on which coulour you'd say his beak's shade is closest to.

Right? RIGHT?

[Peelee]

Funny you would say that.

...

I just want you to know that I appreciate pithy quote titles.

[Metastachydium]

pithy

And I just want you to know that I really appreciate that word choice. Well played, Sir, well played!

[Peelee]

And I just want you to know that I really appreciate that word choice. Well played, Sir, well played!

You've never claimed to not be a citrus variety!

[Metastachydium]

You've never claimed to not be a citrus variety!

[Pedantic Evil grin.] You're thinking mesocarp; most planties have the pith in their stems.

[InvisibleBison]

His position relative to Team Evil might provide a degree of cover. It's all about angles.

I seriously doubt that. He's watching Team Evil; any cover would obstruct his line of sight. Moreover, when we see a larger view of Blackwing perching on an outcrop there's clearly no cover available. While that's not the same outcrop he's on in 1267, I think it's reasonable to say that if he didn't have any cover then he wouldn't have any now either.

Funny you would say that.

The first case you've highlighted is clearly not applicable to the current situation. Blackwing is not difficult to see; he's a much darker color than any of the surrounding terrain and in the final panel of 1267 he's moving after Team Evil.

The second case is more questionable, I'll admit. It's clear that no encounter between Xykon and Blackwing has begun. However, does that mean that Xykon hasn't made a Spot check to determine the distance at which such an encounter could begin and simply rolled really badly? It's possible, I suppose, but that requires us to assume that Xykon would necessarily attack any bird he happened to notice. Again, that's not impossible, especially since Xykon knows there's some sort of opposition in the area. I still think it's not very likely, though, and so am willing to say that Xykon has not rolled any Spot checks to notice Blackwing.

[Peelee]

[Pedantic Evil grin.] You're thinking mesocarp; most planties have the pith in their stems.

That doesn't technically make my statement wrong, and I have a great fondness for citrus planties.

Also tomato planties. My wife thinks I'm odd but tomato leaves have just the best smell.

[Metastachydium]

I seriously doubt that. He's watching Team Evil; any cover would obstruct his line of sight. Moreover, when we see a larger view of Blackwing perching on an outcrop there's clearly no cover available. While that's not the same outcrop he's on in 1267, I think it's reasonable to say that if he didn't have any cover then he wouldn't have any now either.

That's, um, literally not how cover works. Cover's about line of effect. If there is line of effect, but not line of sight, that's total concealment; if there's neither, that's a subset of total cover. One does not need total cover to Hide, however. "A low obstacle (such as a wall no higher than half your height) provides cover" and we don't know there isn't a broadly analogous obstacle present for Blackwing to benefit from. The rock face to his left in the strip you linked could conceiveably serve as such against Team Evil as they approach from the left, and there may easily be another outcrop/terrace further down which could do the same against Team Evil as it passes below.

The first case you've highlighted is clearly not applicable to the current situation. Blackwing is not difficult to see; he's a much darker color than any of the surrounding terrain and in the final panel of 1267 he's moving after Team Evil.

He's Tiny, far away and way above Xykon. RAW never states it has to be about camouflage colours or whatnot.

The second case is more questionable, I'll admit. It's clear that no encounter between Xykon and Blackwing has begun. However, does that mean that Xykon hasn't made a Spot check to determine the distance at which such an encounter could begin and simply rolled really badly? It's possible, I suppose, but that requires us to assume that Xykon would necessarily attack any bird he happened to notice. Again, that's not impossible, especially since Xykon knows there's some sort of opposition in the area. I still think it's not very likely, though, and so am willing to say that Xykon has not rolled any Spot checks to notice Blackwing.

Yeah, that's certainly another possibility.

That doesn't technically make my statement wrong, and I have a great fondness for citrus planties.

Also tomato planties. My wife thinks I'm odd but tomato leaves have just the best smell.

[Happy little flower vocalizations.] Anyhow, your wife is correct insofar as you're not supposed to like that smell; if memory serves it's there to deter potential predators, and changes in its intensity if the leaf is wounded are chemical cries of alarm which should be scary. I find it really pleasant as well, never the less.

[Fyraltari]

[Pedantic Evil grin.] You're thinking mesocarp; most planties have the pith in their stems.

Do the others think of the rest as pithiful?

[Metastachydium]

Do the others think of the rest as pithiful?

That would be a reasonable reaction, yes. For my part, I'd love to pithy them, but I'm not sure we have the technology for that.

[Riftwolf]

That would be a reasonable reaction, yes. For my part, I'd love to pithy them, but I'm not sure we have the technology for that.

Now you're just taking the pith.

The way I thought Xykon recognising Blackwing is he'd wait till Redcloak was out of sight before using an unspecified bird-catching spell to snag Blackwing. If Redcloak sees him, he could easily bluff that he was torturing a bird for fun; Redcloak didn't see Blackwing at the tower so it'd just appear as Xykon lacking self-control.

[WanderingMist]

Well, Blackwing isn't actually all-black, is he, now? So I am going to say yellow-billed chough.

Edit: Or red-billed, depending on which coulour you'd say his beak's shade is closest to.

Didn't V explicitly identify Blackwing as a raven when Blackwing debuted? He's probably just a common raven with a slight color mutation in the beak. And since Blackwing refuses to acknowledge he could be a crow, he must be a raven. Not that there's any actual genealogical reason to distinguish between crows and ravens, as the normal distinction between the two is size-based.

[Peelee]

Didn't V explicitly identify Blackwing as a raven when Blackwing debuted? He's probably just a common raven

Excuse me, Blackwing is an exceptional raven!

[brian 333]

Excuse me, Blackwing is an exceptional raven!

Perhaps he uses beak and leg polish to attract ravens with a particular idea of attractiveness. Ravens do have excellent color vision.

[Precure]

He's probably a crow that pretends to be a raven, like how some rats pretends to be mice.

[JonahFalcon]

Do you honestly think Xykon cares? He views the Order as B class heroes, and he has no idea there are paladins around, especially not O-Chul. He still can't remember Roy.

He's probably a crow that pretends to be a raven, like how some rats pretends to be mice.

They're all corvids.