Utropia

[Rogan]

3SecondCultist, since I see the way the wind is blowing and would rather die than wait in suspense (and I want to rub it in Rogan and SnowÂ’s faces that IÂ’m town when I flip).

So, I've actually gone back to check. We were both town in mysterium mafia, where I did question you a bit for things I found noteworthy, but didn't attack you. Got killed night 1, so I wasn't participating for most of the game.
And of course, I got suspicious about you in the tarot club, but... I was right about you. So I don't think this can be used as evidence of any kind of prejudice.

So... With gacs clarification about neutrals, I see many good reasons to lynch 3Sec, but none to keep him alive. If he is a jester and wins? Good for him. If he is a wolf, even better.
On the off chance of him just making a terrible mistake while being town, we still get his flip and don't lose out on his power.
We would lose his vote and Intel (unless there is a dead chat reader), but I'm not sure there's much to be done to get enough trust for this to matter. It's still possible to try, so...

@3Sec: Regarding a claim, I think you should do this before EoD. And not too close to it. There needs to be enough time to analyze and react to the info. From personal experience, I can tell you, claiming too late can be a death sentence.

You also should not self vote and accept defeat. It's not helpful. Nobody here will go "oh, no wolf would ever self vote, he has to be town". So instead, try to calm down and check the arguments made about you. If there's something you disagree with, point it out. If something is a valid concern, admit it. I can assure you, not everybody voting you is a wolf.
That's the best thing you can do about your own defense. (I guess. Opinions might vary)

The next important leg: actually share your thoughts about alternative targets. Who should be voted instead of you, and why?

[AvatarVecna]

I'm catching up!



Very good advice. Do take it, Cultist. (And don't forget those reads.)



Mhm.



Scratch my earlier question.



That's bold and unneccessary. Calm down, buddy. Inhale, exhale, reads list (does the above mean that you townread those two?).



Okay, Cape. You're in the clear.



F-finally!



Noted, thanks.



I don't know. Didn't UPick2 have, like a dog pack, half a serial killer, a crazy homicidal survivor an ineffectual vigilante and your killer-deathtrap? And in UPick1, there was that day-disintegration existing in two copies, AV, until you killed the planetar guy?



Welcome to the wonderful world of Snow, Our Enemy! Share the pain!



…
I wanted to say I'm not that easy to corrupt, but… I guess, I am. Welcome to my good side! #RiseBeyond!

Just to be clear are you bringing up the game where I won a serial killer as evidence that having an extra 2 kills per cycle doesn't make town's odds monumentally worse?

Edit: Also like I didn't even use my Davyvig power the 1st day. I could have, and that game could have been even more one sided than it was but I still won.

[Metastachydium]

Just to be clear are you bringing up the game where I won a serial killer as evidence that having an extra 2 kills per cycle doesn't make town's odds monumentally worse?

No, I'm bringing it up to demonstrate that your estimates of 3 kills/cycle, tops, are wildly optimistic.

[AvatarVecna]

No, I'm bringing it up to demonstrate that your estimates of 3 kills/cycle, tops, are wildly optimistic.

Then the point of my post went so far above your head it's in orbit now.

My point is not, and never was, "there's literally no reason to expect 4+ kills per cycle". My point was "if there's 4+ kills per cycle, we may as well just surrender now and not spend the next week figuring out exactly how spiky the dildo about to **** us is". It is theoretically possible this is a 6 wolf game, and there's 5 kills per cycle (let's call it lynch, dayvig, nightvig, serial killer, wolf NK), and we're going to wake up D2 with "alright, 13 living players, and 6 wolves, today is LYLO". But if that's the scenario we're in right now, with 5 kills pe cycle and 6 wolves, we may as well quit. There's such a miniscule path to victory in such scenarios, that there's no point wasting your time trying to find it. My post first post on this subject is made from the assumption of "gac's game balance isn't hilariously wolfsided", and that limits the pool of possibilities.

UPick, with a power-immune dayvigging serial killer who could give away a scry in exchange for receiving literally any other power the narrator could think up, was never going to end in town victory. The only reason it ever looked like it might be close to a town victory is because the SK in question decided to do a bit of trolling and hunt all the wolves down first.

- - - Updated - - -

Like, there was a game not too long ago where, to summarize a lot of mechanical shenanigans, town could get two scries per night, with half the player base privately voting on who gets scried among themselves, all of whom are informed of the result; simultaneously, it was theoretically possible for wolves to get two kills per night, but town was maneuvering such a way that attempting to do so would immediately catch out a wolf (trading 1 NK for 1 wolf, a trade that is always in town's favor). We wolves did our best that game, but we surrendered once it became clear that there was simply no path to success. It sucks, but sometimes games are just that one-sided and there's nothing you can do about it. It's helpful to recognize where those lines are, because this game can be frustrating even at the best of times, and setting yourself up for failure isn't a recipe for a good time.

So...assuming we're not completely ****ed with no recourse, 3-5 wolves, no more than 3 kills per cycle. That's my assumption for the moment.

[Metastachydium]

Then the point of my post went so far above your head it's in orbit now.

My point is not, and never was, "there's literally no reason to expect 4+ kills per cycle". My point was "if there's 4+ kills per cycle, we may as well just surrender now and not spend the next week figuring out exactly how spiky the dildo about to **** us is". It is theoretically possible this is a 6 wolf game, and there's 5 kills per cycle (let's call it lynch, dayvig, nightvig, serial killer, wolf NK), and we're going to wake up D2 with "alright, 13 living players, and 6 wolves, today is LYLO". But if that's the scenario we're in right now, with 5 kills pe cycle and 6 wolves, we may as well quit. There's such a miniscule path to victory in such scenarios, that there's no point wasting your time trying to find it. My post first post on this subject is made from the assumption of "gac's game balance isn't hilariously wolfsided", and that limits the pool of possibilities.

UPick, with a power-immune dayvigging serial killer who could give away a scry in exchange for receiving literally any other power the narrator could think up, was never going to end in town victory. The only reason it ever looked like it might be close to a town victory is because the SK in question decided to do a bit of trolling and hunt all the wolves down first.

My point, meanwhile isn't that EVERYONE HAS KILLPOWERS, RUN FOR YOUR LIVES either; all I'm saying is that UPick, by definition, overcomplicates things even more wildly than your standard powerseverywhere game, so making D1 projections based on the classic game/the classic roles setup is an exercise in futility.

As for UPick1, I'll give you that. It was… Just ouch. But what about 2? 2 had plenty of roles carrying kills and still got swingy in the end.

[Persolus]

Then the point of my post went so far above your head it's in orbit now.

My point is not, and never was, "there's literally no reason to expect 4+ kills per cycle". My point was "if there's 4+ kills per cycle, we may as well just surrender now and not spend the next week figuring out exactly how spiky the dildo about to **** us is". It is theoretically possible this is a 6 wolf game, and there's 5 kills per cycle (let's call it lynch, dayvig, nightvig, serial killer, wolf NK), and we're going to wake up D2 with "alright, 13 living players, and 6 wolves, today is LYLO". But if that's the scenario we're in right now, with 5 kills pe cycle and 6 wolves, we may as well quit. There's such a miniscule path to victory in such scenarios, that there's no point wasting your time trying to find it. My post first post on this subject is made from the assumption of "gac's game balance isn't hilariously wolfsided", and that limits the pool of possibilities.

UPick, with a power-immune dayvigging serial killer who could give away a scry in exchange for receiving literally any other power the narrator could think up, was never going to end in town victory. The only reason it ever looked like it might be close to a town victory is because the SK in question decided to do a bit of trolling and hunt all the wolves down first.

Reminder: unless a Serial Killer has a Trope granting access to the wolf chat, the more wolves there are, the greater chance said SK would have of either killing a wolf or over-killing a townie/neutral.
So I personally take Gac3's implication that there might be a serial killer as encouraging.

That also is based on the assumption that all of the wolf Kill Tropes can activate in the same round. If I recall correctly, UPick2 had a lot of abilities with the clause "if no other Wolf Kill Powers have been used this cycle."

Aaaaand you updated since I started writing!

So...assuming we're not completely ****ed with no recourse, 3-5 wolves, no more than 3 kills per cycle. That's my assumption for the moment.

Ah it appears that I too missed the point of your digression - you were putting forth a prediction, not worrying the game was already lost.
[apologies for needless argument]

Anyways, to be more clear than last time: I will do my best to make the number of kills lower.

[moonfly7]

Am still too tired/stressed/busy for ISOs, so... let's talk about moonfly.

Firstly, moonfly, you still haven't found examples of the "wolves gradually building up to a wolfread" thing I asked about yesterday.

Second, on me, I asked because we had an interaction that was basically:
Snow: moonfly is towny
moonfly: I think it's suspicious that you're townreading me
Snow: Wait, actually, moonfly might be a wolf
moonfly: I don't want to vote Snow any more

(I literally made a comment in my Discord channel that "my inner wolf is cackling evilly about getting moonfly to unvote her").

And that just. From the resident tinfoil-hat-wearer... doesn't fit. And also a lot of the stuff I've been saying about him looks a lot like that "wolf gradually building up to a wolfread" thing he mentioned, significantly more than what Rogan did imo.

I have no information about Kraken's power. I think I know what he might be implying, but if I'm correct I also think he'd be best off just saying it. Until he does I think killing him is definitely better at least than killing Rogan.

(I'll give him a couple of hours, but unless I think of reasons it's a bad idea for town I will say it if he doesn't.)

Having said that, I think I want BCH/moonfly wagons. Which probably means I should vote one or other of them, but... I can't decide which and neither quite feels right.

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I guess my problem with committing to a moonfly wolfread is...

a) he's extremely different to Afterlife-2-moonfly (though that could be just because it was a much lower activity game/was quite a while ago

b) moonfly and I have never actually been both town, UPick 2 I just TMIed him town and then townread him for the scry he gave me and mostly just ignored him otherwise. So maybe town!me just naturally wolfreads town!moonfly's style.

c) moonfly is forcing himself to be paranoid when maybe that's not entirely how he naturally plays, and that forced-ness could be what's coming across as wolfy.

Actually, yeah, I've kind of convinced myself. Batcathat. I don't think I've seen the stuff that I associate with town!BCH, and there have been some wolfy moments as well.

For the wolfread thing caos pushing of captain Cap Upick2 game. Might not be a great example but it's what my brain can pull up right now.
Sorry this is so brief, my fall break just started and I'll be busy with my family for the rest of the day. I'll try to clear the rest of the stuff later on. Loving the game so far.

[AvatarVecna]

My point, meanwhile isn't that EVERYONE HAS KILLPOWERS, RUN FOR YOUR LIVES either; all I'm saying is that UPick, by definition, overcomplicates things even more wildly than your standard powerseverywhere game, so making D1 projections based on the classic game/the classic roles setup is an exercise in futility.

As for UPick1, I'll give you that. It was… Just ouch. But what about 2? 2 had plenty of roles carrying kills and still got swingy in the end.

UPick 2 has an extremely active player base, which is pro-town by default. There was some good town play, but also some good wolf play. And wolves couldn't use all their kill stuff in one go, so it was more spread out.

Reminder: unless a Serial Killer has a Trope granting access to the wolf chat, the more wolves there are, the greater chance said SK would have of either killing a wolf or over-killing a townie/neutral.
So I personally take Gac3's implication that there might be a serial killer as encouraging.

You're not wrong, this kind of thing can definitely happen - both the "SK kills wolf instead of town", and "SK and wolves kill the same person". SK will sometimes kill wolves on purpose, but the most dangerous people for an SK (as with wolves) is gonna be townies, so they're gonna default to killing people they townlean unless they've got reason to go after the wolves. It's more likely for there to be overlap, since SK and wolves are (sort of) pointed in the same direction, but even a small difference in position between a lone SK and a group of wolves can cause overlap to miss, each one hitting a different solvy townie.

That also is based on the assumption that all of the wolf Kill Tropes can activate in the same round. If I recall correctly, UPick2 had a lot of abilities with the clause "if no other Wolf Kill Powers have been used this cycle."

My prediction of 5 kills per cycle actually only had one wolf kill. The lynch everyone votes on, town!dayvig, town!nightvig, serial killer, and then the wolf NK. Wolves only have one kill a night, but still five kills per cycle.

(This whole "the more kills there are the worse town's odds are" thing is why I generally have absolutely zero faith in vigilantes. Unless the vig is named "Xumtiil", it's an easy bet that they're going to hit nothing but townies. It's such an easy bet that "AV and the publicly claimed vig are both still alive" is a good sign that I'm on wolf team, because I'm leaving the vig alive to do half the scumteam's job for us.)

Ah it appears that I too missed the point of your digression - you were putting forth a prediction, not worrying the game was already lost.
[apologies for needless argument]

Oh yeah. My prediction is a more straightforward game with a straightforward number of players per team, since that's literally the only guidance we've received from gac in terms of "how he tried to balance the game".

Anyways, to be more clear than last time: I will do my best to make the number of kills lower.

If you're a baner/voider, I wish you much luck, even if I don't have much faith you'll get lucky. If you're a vig promising not to use your kill power, I salute you for having a level of self-control the vast majority of the community lacks.

[3SecondCultist]

So, I've actually gone back to check. We were both town in mysterium mafia, where I did question you a bit for things I found noteworthy, but didn't attack you. Got killed night 1, so I wasn't participating for most of the game.
And of course, I got suspicious about you in the tarot club, but... I was right about you. So I don't think this can be used as evidence of any kind of prejudice.

So... With gacs clarification about neutrals, I see many good reasons to lynch 3Sec, but none to keep him alive. If he is a jester and wins? Good for him. If he is a wolf, even better.
On the off chance of him just making a terrible mistake while being town, we still get his flip and don't lose out on his power.
We would lose his vote and Intel (unless there is a dead chat reader), but I'm not sure there's much to be done to get enough trust for this to matter. It's still possible to try, so...

@3Sec: Regarding a claim, I think you should do this before EoD. And not too close to it. There needs to be enough time to analyze and react to the info. From personal experience, I can tell you, claiming too late can be a death sentence.

You also should not self vote and accept defeat. It's not helpful. Nobody here will go "oh, no wolf would ever self vote, he has to be town". So instead, try to calm down and check the arguments made about you. If there's something you disagree with, point it out. If something is a valid concern, admit it. I can assure you, not everybody voting you is a wolf.
That's the best thing you can do about your own defense. (I guess. Opinions might vary)

The next important leg: actually share your thoughts about alternative targets. Who should be voted instead of you, and why?

Okay. Okay.

I am much calmer now, but you are 100% right. I will claim now, outline my tropes and people can come to their own conclusions. I'll circle back with my reads, but I'm decently sure at least one person who jumped on my wagon is a wolf.

Spoiler: 3SC Claim

Show

3SecondCultist you are the Village Cheat, Town.

Your tropes are
>>> Beyond the Impossible: Somehow you are capable of things outside of the normal rules. Once per phase you may choose a rule of the Mafia games to break. I want to leave this open to creativity so I will not give you a specific list but rather an example. There is no private chat outside of what I personally provide for this game. You are able to choose to send a private message (though I still need to be aware of its contents).

The way I see it - and you can agree or disagree - there are three scenarios here.

1) I am telling the truth, and am town. I have spoken to gac about my power, and it works even after I am dead (meaning even if I'm mislynched as town, it's not the end of the world as I can be a town asset). My Day rule break can be 'dead people cannot talk', so I can relay info from dead chat. My Night rule break can be something else; I had a plan, but it relied on my role staying ambiguous enough that I could have sold myself as Neutral to the wolves and then betrayed them later. I'm open to different ideas.

2) I'm a lying piece of scum. Pretty straightforward, and you have lots of info to go on. Look at all the people I voted and then moved off, or just didn't interact with entirely. I am reading Rogan as town right now, even though I pretty much can't stand them - for whatever that's worth, since my instincts have been proven to be worthless.

3) I'm a Jester neutral role, and I somehow win (or join the winning team by default) by being voted out. The game would not end in that case, I would just be automatically part of the winning covenant; I win regardless of whether town or wolves do. I don't see gac building a power that allows for a D1 game over, do you? He said it wasn't a bastard game, and I believe him.

There are very few reasons not to lynch me at this point. I say go for it, honestly. There’s a 66% chance it benefits town either way to kill me, right?

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I will also add that my shiftiness was at least partially planned to read Jester. It was going to be part of my con on the wolves, but I well and truly overplayed my hand. My Night rule break was going to be 'people can't send PMs unless the Narrator allows it' to PM wolf chat and try to work my way into their side, get as much info as possible, and share it with town later.

... I never said it was a good plan.

[Rogan]

To be fair, that's an insanely tough question.


That's a license to dodge, essentially.


I have my theories and I like the chances that you aren't bad news. But I don't trust you. In contrast, I kind of trust gac, and by extension, the Cape, but the wording there gives me pause and I'm not yet sure what to make of Caoimhin.



Would you do it? I mean, a newbie dog is better off sounding like a newbie.


BUt then, was that a personal chemistry thing or a situational pragmatism thing?

Yeah. I probably should have picked another player for my example.

I thought it was worth a shot. Didn't hit.
But in essence, I think you can get Book to talk and he can give helpful answers. (Not necessarily for him, but still). During PJ2, I've asked him a question and although it was a minor thing, I spotted a slip. Didn't help much, but still, it felt useful.
During the Dresden Files, I correctly identified him as Blackstaff (Town day vig). Didn't matter, cause I only got sure after my death, but still. Book will sometimes give answers about things that are relevant. It's always worth to try. (And if he gives nothing at all, it's probably a bad sign).

Fair about not trusting me.

Well if they ask for help, I'd probably could not refuse to answer. I'd give them some general pointers, but nothing to specific. I think my behavior in regards to a new wolf would be available in Wild Wild West.

I think, AV and I were working together quite efficiently in the background. In the foreground, we kept our distance a bit. Not totally ignoring each other, but limiting unnecessary contact.
In general, I'd say, AV is the more efficient player than me, especially in regards of deception, her problem is her reputation.

---

I'm still not feeling very well and I've noticed I've got a hard time keeping up, even with the slightly reduced speed of posting. Sorry about this. I'll go to sleep soon and will hopefully be refreshed tomorrow.

[Batcathat]

Huh. That's certainly an interesting (and very powerful) role, if true. The sheer power and versatility of it does make me trust the claim a little less, giving a player the power to more or less arbitrarily break rules on a regular basis seems like a lot. That said, I could see myself including a power like that just to see what a player might do with it, so it's not impossible, I guess.

Coming up with a defense where it still kinda makes sense to kill you is certainly an interesting approach, if you're a wolf. (Though as I remind myself roughly a dozen times each game, I should never rule something out as wolfy just because I can't see a wolfy motivation for it). It seems like you were either following a rather bonkers plan (no offense meant, I've certainly had my fair share of them) and is now honest, or you made a genuine slip and has come up with a bonkers defense for it. Points for creativity in either case, if nothing else.

- - - Updated - - -

Anyhow, I really need to get to bed. I'll be pretty busy for pretty much all of tomorrow, so while I should be able to check in on occasion, I probably won't have time for anything too in-depth.

[Rogan]

I am reading Rogan as town right now, even though I pretty much can’t stand them - for whatever that’s worth, since my instincts have been proven to be worthless.

I'm disregarding everything else for the moment to focus on this part.
I'm sorry if you feel like I'm handling you unjust.
I don't want to ruin your fun. My case on you is not personal and I sincerely want to apologize if I did <treat you bad or overstepped some boundaries>.

[flat_footed]

3SecondCultist you are the Village Cheat, Town.

Your tropes are
>>> Beyond the Impossible: Somehow you are capable of things outside of the normal rules. Once per phase you may choose a rule of the Mafia games to break. I want to leave this open to creativity so I will not give you a specific list but rather an example. There is no private chat outside of what I personally provide for this game. You are able to choose to send a private message (though I still need to be aware of it's contents).

So, let's say I believe this 100%. A rule of Mafia is that the player with the most lynch votes at the end of the day is killed. What's stopping you from using your power to alter this in a way to save yourself?

I mean, hell, only wolves get access to the wolf chat. Why not break that rule and get up in there?

[Let'sGetKraken]

So, let's say I believe this 100%. A rule of Mafia is that the player with the most lynch votes at the end of the day is killed. What's stopping you from using your power to alter this in a way to save yourself?

I mean, hell, only wolves get access to the wolf chat. Why not break that rule and get up in there?

Yeah, without restrictions this seems... insanely OP. Like, maybe gac would have shot down ideas as they came.

This honestly seems too powerful to give to either town or wolves, so I don't know what to think. This seems like a wolf play out of desperation, or a Jester play going over the top.

But it doesn't matter, because it's incredibly easy to put to the test. Just get Cultist to break the rules in a way specified by the rest of us in a public manner. That should confirm the power, if not alignment, which would help determine if he's lying.

Or just vote him out. The penalty for getting a Jester out isn't a game over, if gac is telling the truth. Doesn't really matter to me either way.

[Ripptor]

I'd be inclined to give Cultist a Round (2 phases?) to do something interesting and helpful for Town. Honestly, if he's telling the Truth then Wolves should be scared of a power that OP and kill Cultist. Saves us a lynch + night kill?

If he lives and doesn't help in any meaningful way, then we can just kill him tomorrow if we need to.

@Cultist What creative thing would you do to help Town out?

[Snowblaze]

Okay, then. That role feels crazily OP. Seconding flat that it probably needs some restrictions of some kind to not completely break the game - would be useful to know what those are.

I'm just trying to think of a way killing 3SC would completely screw us over, because I'm paranoid.

(Actually, can someone who's claimed to have one trope confirm whether their role name is the trope itself or whether they have a separate name (yes, this is me claiming to have two tropes)?).

Nightmare scenario is "3SC has this kind of power but is also a wolf" since then he can cheat his way out of death. Hoping gac didn't do that.

3SC, is there some way you can break the rules to confirm your alignment to us, and if so could you please do that?

(Also I just had a horribly paranoid thought which I'm not going to share unless it becomes more relevant than it currently is.)

[Persolus]

(Actually, can someone who's claimed to have one trope confirm whether their role name is the trope itself or whether they have a separate name (yes, this is me claiming to have two tropes)?).

Yeah, mine is a joke halfway between the trope and the traditional mafia role kinda associated with it? So different name, the same as with 3SecondCultist.

[Book Wombat]

I first thought 3SC faked the claim because of the quote arrows (>>>) due to how messages are copied from Discord (PC), but I tested it out on mobile and it copied those as well so I don't have much to say. Probably at least a part of it is true.

[Rogan]

Morning.

I'll second (or whatever the number) the notion, that this power as written is totally OP.

My suggestion?
First, break the rule that your power can only be used once per phase.
With this done, you can go totally wild.

Suggestions include:
You are allowed to share your private Discord channel with everybody else (make sure you remain the only one to be allowed to use your power).
You are allowed to remain active even when dead. Or you can change the result of the lynch so you don't die at all.
You sneak a look into the Narrators private Notes.
You can cancel or change any power you don't like. For bonus points, make the wolves target themselves.

So, 3Sec? What are the limits? Any additional information you can share with us?
Because with a power that strong, I see no reason not to vote for your lynch. It won't matter anyway, cause you can no-sell every harm to you. If you've got limits which makes this impossible, it will make your power claim both more believable (for me, at least) and more interesting to play around with. And it would actually give me, personally, a reason to think about not lynching you on the spot.

[Metastachydium]

O-okay, so there's nothing, literally nothing about Cultist's claim that I like. The format is right, of course, but that means nothing: it's an all-power game, everyone has a role and (a) power(/s). And the contents… Damn. That's not a Town power. And not a dog power either. I mean, Rogan's right. The limit is the sky. It's (1) either some horribly unbalanced Neutral guarantee of having a chance at pulling through the game (2) or a fat, stinking lie. Both of those possibilities leave me wary, even before that winkwink there.

What says you, Cape?

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In fact, I'm reminded of me back in UPick2. When I first claimed, I omitted the little detail that the Spreading Roots die with me. But even without that failsafe, Spreading Roots had one clearly defined use and there were ways to circumvent it (Snow had to go One-Winged Angel to safely pull through the Day phases).

- - - Updated - - -

In the meantime, this here's just a blank cheque that is claimed not to care about death.

[Taffimai]

I couldn't free myself yesterday evening so I am several pages behind, and I can't find a current votecount. I assume since Cultist is claiming that he's being wagoned, who else?

[Rogan]

I couldn't free myself yesterday evening so I am several pages behind, and I can't find a current votecount. I assume since Cultist is claiming that he's being wagoned, who else?

I think I'm a distant second, but might be wrong. RL is eating up a lot of energy right now, so I don't have a vote count ready either.

3Sec is the top wagons after I spotted something I thought was a scum slip. It got a bit heated as well.

Good luck catching up. If you need to know anything from me, I'm here for direct questions.

[Metastachydium]

If the Cape was correct about his numbers earlier, interestingly enough, things look like this right now:

Votes:
3SecondCultist (4): 3SecondCultist, AvatarVecna, Batcathat, Zelphas
Batcathat (4): CaoimhinTheCape, LetsGetKraken, Snowblaze, Xihirli
Rogan (2): JeenLeen, Moonfly7
BookWombat (1): Persolus
Flat_Footed (1): Bladescape
Moonfly7 (1): Taffimai
Persolus (1): BookWombat
Snowblaze (1): Metastachydium, Rogan
Zelphas (1): Ripptor

No Vote: Flat Footed, Rogan

In other words, we have a tie and the Rogan wagon is all but gone. I don't mind the latter.

[3SecondCultist]

On the matter of my power: I don't particularly care to comment at this time. I may have already hinted at some limitations, but those could be a fake-out. Or not. My claim will stand or fall on the cases I have already outlined.

I'll let the smarter players figure it out.

[bladescape]

Good morning.

This is the timezone police, waking up and having a few hours free time to actually try and parse all your content.

Please direct all questions to my secretary.

Who wants to be my secretary, while we're at it?

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Our two-posters are Taffimai, Zelphas and Caoimhin. I don't feel like talking about the latter two just yet, so:

Spoiler: Taffimai ISO

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I don't think anyone had suggested killing the narrator at that point... I can understand getting that impression from briefly skimming, though. (Worth noting with tinfoil hat on that I believe the incident she's referring to is when she was a wolf.)

The former sounds decently likely; I don't think it's the latter.

Given she hasn't been back since page one (ish) (sorry about the massive catchup approaching) I can't really call this anything other than null. Looking forward to your thoughts when you have caught up!

I'm defending Taffi D1. Especially because they haven't played in a while.

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On the matter of my power: I don't particularly care to comment at this time. I may have already hinted at some limitations, but those could be a fake-out. Or not. My claim will stand or fall on the cases I have already outlined.

I'll let the smarter players figure it out.

What if we're all dumb as rocks?

Because I'm pretty dumb sometimes.

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Oh wait I've already read part of the page I'm catching up.

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Fair point for bladescape; my data is incomplete, so it's not a good enough reason to vote Kraken instead. Of course, my vote has since switched from Kraken, so it's kind of a moot point, but it's a good thing to remember.

We spend a lot of time interacting because we are good friends IRL, and have been for over a decade now. I know him, and he knows me, and no matter whether we're town or wolf we will always mess with each other. In fact, last game we both went out of our way not to interact too much to avoid looking paired, which ironically would have paired us to anyone who has played a WW style game with either of us before.

Compare the Mysterium game to the Tarot Club; in the former I went out of my way to accuse Kraken early, he deflected very well, and turned out to be scum. In Tarot Club, we were on the same side from the start and carefully coordinated our interaction to seem organic but we largely left one another alone.

The fact that we're interacting here means that one - or both! - of us is likely not scum. Surely that statement alone will draw suspicion, but I think the evidence is pretty compelling if anyone goes back to read past threads. It's not a hard unpair, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

For what it's worth I've been feeling Kraken townish off their play so far this game.

[Snowblaze]

If the Cape was correct about his numbers earlier, interestingly enough, things look like this right now:

Votes:
3SecondCultist (4): 3SecondCultist, AvatarVecna, Batcathat, Zelphas
Batcathat (4): CaoimhinTheCape, LetsGetKraken, Snowblaze, Xihirli
Rogan (2): JeenLeen, Moonfly7
BookWombat (1): Persolus
Flat_Footed (1): Bladescape
Moonfly7 (1): Taffimai
Persolus (1): BookWombat
Snowblaze (1): Metastachydium, Rogan
Zelphas (1): Ripptor

No Vote: Flat Footed, Rogan

In other words, we have a tie and the Rogan wagon is all but gone. I don't mind the latter.

Yup. I should clarify that I'd probably switch to 3SC if EOD were approaching, and have no objections to his death.

Good morning.

This is the timezone police, waking up and having a few hours free time to actually try and parse all your content.

Please direct all questions to my secretary.

Who wants to be my secretary, while we're at it?

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I'm defending Taffi D1. Especially because they haven't played in a while.

I'll be your secretary if you be my campaign officer?

Also I have no intention of trying to kill Taffimai day one.

[bladescape]

Snow is doing that thing where she posts a bunch of content that is her saying "I guess I can't read this person" and shrugging which feels wolf.

I would need to check to see if she does it as town but I wanna point out that I've seen 3 ISOs with nothing contributed so far.

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I'll be your secretary if you be my campaign officer?

Also I have no intention of trying to kill Taffimai day one.

This is a very awkward post to ninja me calling you wolfish with.

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Hm. I'm trying to win the local elections here, but nobody's talking about me. That's… Not ideal.

You should give up and vote Blade for most hands off mayor.

Also why is half your content casual chatting and none of it talking about reads? All talk and no reads makes Blade a sus boi

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Rogan actively doing analysis paralysis in live format is townish of him.

[Snowblaze]

Snow is doing that thing where she posts a bunch of content that is her saying "I guess I can't read this person" and shrugging which feels wolf.

I would need to check to see if she does it as town but I wanna point out that I've seen 3 ISOs with nothing contributed so far.

Great, you're the second person to suspect me for that. I can't remember if I've done that as town, I will have to also check. I do have actual contribution later, though.

(ftr those ISOs were of the lowest posters so there was limited stuff to go on.)

[bladescape]

Great, you're the second person to suspect me for that. I can't remember if I've done that as town, I will have to also check. I do have actual contribution later, though.

(ftr those ISOs were of the lowest posters so there was limited stuff to go on.)

I think either way if you have no real lean on a bunch of low posters you should probably just note it in one post and move on rather than add noise when there's already signal issues with volume.

(I say this when this is not even a quarter of the speed of champs.)

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Hm hm hm. Moonfly's paranoia I buy very hard. Stocks rising

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Let me check and see if I'm a wolf.
Hm.
Well, I'm not hairy, so I think we're clear.

But grandma, what a big knife you have!

[Snowblaze]

I think either way if you have no real lean on a bunch of low posters you should probably just note it in one post and move on rather than add noise when there's already signal issues with volume.

(I say this when this is not even a quarter of the speed of champs.)

Yeah, that's probably a good point, it wasn't the best use of my limited time.

Also on skimming through a Meta ISO you have a point. The only solid reads I could find were "I don't want to kill Rogan or Caoimhin" and "I don't like 3SC's claim". That probably explains why he didn't make much of an impression on my radar.

Questions for Meta!
- thoughts on BCH and moonfly?
- do you have any wolfreads (other than me on general principle (I do count if you have reasons relating to my play this game))?