Utropia

[Ripptor]

So, Taffi claimed neutral, so worst case in flipping her is needing to rely on a Vigilante kill to sort out the last remaining?

I don't have time to look, but I thought Deadchat was pushing for us to flip Taffi if we were going to pick between the two?

[Book Wombat]

If JeenLeen isn't the last wolf AV could change my power to not having only one use of each power so I could kill Taffimai as well as Ripptor so single voids wouldn't work.

[CaoimhinTheCape]

If JeenLeen isn't the last wolf AV could change my power to not having only one use of each power so I could kill Taffimai as well as Ripptor so single voids wouldn't work.

If JeenLeen isn't the last wolf, then the last wolf is between AV and Taff. It'd be nice to make sure we're covering ourselves there but if AV is the wolf we'll probably be in a worse spot.

[Taffimai]

@Taff While a guaranteed win is nice for you, how bad is it if you die now? If it's not the end of the world then lynching you would prove Jeen's alignment then we would know exactly who to target with our vig the next night.

If I die today, the only way I win is if both AV and Ripptor die before the game ends. I'll let you be the judge of how likely that is.

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And to add: if JeenLeen dies, I'd have to live until tomorrow. It's complicated, I know.

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Not that it's going to convince anyone, but one reason I'm sure JeenLeen isn't a wolf is that he's known my win condition from the start, and he'd have to have picked night kills with the express purpose to screw me over. Which they'd have no reason to want to do.

[JeenLeen]

From what I understand, Taffimai wins once Night starts if AV dies today because every living player will be on her list as of Night starting. A new person is added each Phase.
I don't 100% get how that jives with needing AV and Ripptor dead... but I've misunderstood stuff before. Taffimai can clarify as needed; I'll be quiet about it lest I misspeak.

I still think lynching AV today is the best bet.
If AV is the lying wolf, we win.
If Taffimai is the lying wolf, she doesn't exit the game as Night starts and we go after her.
If I'm the lying wolf, Taffimai does exit the game and y'all go after me.
If (by some craziness) someone else is the last wolf, it'll probably go to a one-vs-one and let's hope the mayor is Town.

Basically, if I, Taffimai, or AV are the wolf, lynching AV is safe.
If AV is the wolf, then her power could do "who knows what", and I'd be very worried about letting her know our tropes.

[Taffimai]

From my perspective, it's pretty simple:

Caoimhin and JeenLeen are town because Gac told me so.

Ripptor is town because she's the vig.

Wombat can only be a wolf if somehow Bladescape agreed to be bussed.

That only leaves AV.

[JeenLeen]

Noting that I probably won't be online until well into the next Night, like 20 hours or so after this post. (I might be online a little bit the next hour.)

Real life kept me busy, so I haven't done the rereading I wanted to, but I'll share a couple things for the "Taffimai is a wolf" camp
1) she's been quiet in our private chat today (but was active yesterday during this Day). Could be real life busy and not a lot to discuss, but it feels like someone not wanting to tip their hand. (I have a bias here from a previous game where I was mason with a wolf, and they clammed up the moment I suspected them, so take this with a grain of salt.)

2) she said she misunderstood parts of her role for a while, and spent some early time fishing if I was really Town or not. I get that from not 100% trusting the Narrator, as there was some early confusion if this game might have some bastard mechanics. She also told me new details of her win con a couple times. It all can make sense as just misunderstanding or getting clarification from gac3, but it could also be a wolf refining their cover story.
The statement about AV and Ripptor needing to die if I die today... that doesn't feel good.
Caveat: I've misunderstood a ton this game and not paid enough attention. Big hypocritical "pot calling the kettle black" to wolfread the above, but felt like sharing it nonetheless.
Caveat 2: I think I once said she'd win if she died today. That was a mistake on my part. She told me she wins when Night starts if AV dies today, and I posted publicly forgetting the "if AV" clause.

3) if I were a wolf paired with a townie, and knowing the townie had no mechanical confirmation of my alignment... I could see Neutral Mason as a good ploy. As some stated, why not just lie and say Town? Well, because WIFOM makes it seem odd and believable. And why waste a scry on a neutral if their power makes them appear Town to scrys? A Neutral Mason who scrys as Town is an excellent cover story for a wolf mason.
On the other side: for Taffimai to be a wolf, she had to put a lot of work into tricking me. She spent a while trying to feel out if I was a wolf posing as Town. I can see someone doing that as a fun thing, but I also think it'd be kinda exhausting. Basically just saying she conned me real good if she's a wolf, and it was a slow and long building con.

All that said, I'm still more suspicious and scared of AV than Taffimai.
If AV is a wolf, she likely has some plan with her powers to try to win despite Night actions. I've seen no evidence that Taffimai has active powers. I guess she could, and a wolf would, lie to the extent of her powers... but, well... the risk of wolf!AV seems way higher than wolf!Taffimai, and we do have a voider in Book Wombat. I could see wolf!AV as more likely to try to bypass voids. But even if Taffimai is a wolf and can dodge a void, we'd still outnumber her come Day. And we got the Mayor to help our votecount.

So there's reason from her mason buddy to distrust her.
But I'm still leaving my vote on AV, as the more dangerous risk.
If AV flips town and Taffimai doesn't leave the game as a winner when Night breaks, she's the wolf.

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And I generally like to help neutrals win if possible, to help foster that view in the community metagame. Helpful when I'm a neutral, and as Town I want as many players to win as possible. The risk of accidentally making a neutral lose is part of the weight in my decision.

[CaoimhinTheCape]

Ugh, this has not helped me decide. I really hear the point about AV's power being a bigger problem if AV turns out to be a wolf. Screwing with our night actions will cause problems that we may not be able to come back from. I feel like lynching Taff is the safest option for town, but that's likely going to give Taff a loss if she's neutral. If Jeen's the wolf, we know he's got the power to have 1 less vote against him which becomes a problem if we leave him till the last Day. And we don't actually get Taff out of the game, due to waiting for the last of Ripptor/AV (though, both are likely good choices for the other side tonight.

Ugh. I really don't know what the right answer is but I'm gonna Vote JeenLeen and hope I'm making the right call.

[JeenLeen]

Cao's the mayor, so he has 2 votes. My power cancels out one.
JeenLeen: Ripptor, BookWombat, Cao 3 votes --> 4 votes --> 3 votes
Taffimai: AvatarVecna
AvatarVecna: JeenLeen, Taffimai

If I vote Taffimai, not enough to secure a lynch.
neutral!Taffimai won't vote herself, since greatly lowers chances of winning. Wolf!Taffimai obvoiusly wouldn't vote herself. And Ripptor/BookWombat seem set on testing me. So I can't vote in a more helpful way than AV.

Here's a pro-Town and jerk move: AV, I am The Scrappy and Papa Wolf, in communication with the Strange Child. I don't know if Taffimai has a second trope or not.

Pro-Town
If AV is town, I want her to know Taffimai's trope when Night starts.
If Taffimai is neutral and AV wolf, hopefully AV can't change it enough to hurt the Town. I think Taffimai's neutral win-con is based on her 2nd trope, so I hope wolf!AV can't mess with her actual winning condition via Strange Child.

Jerk Move
Cao, if you're worried about wolf!AV knowing tropes, I'm hoping this force your hand into voting for her instead of me/Taffimai. Basically I'm making the danger of wolf!AV higher by giving out a trope of a player who'll be alive at Night.
I do feel bad about it, but it's for the good of the Town. Well, assuming it's not Taffimai is the last wolf and has some awesome power.

@AV: hope no hard feelings. I assume you read my post earlier about how, just by mechanics and process of elimination, it almost has to be you or Taffimai.

Lastly, if AV flip wolf, Taffimai flips neutral, and the game doesn't end: my money is on BookWombat as a JOAT Serial Killer or that Cao somehow is a wolf, either due to that Narrator claim being oddly phrased D1 or (more likely) AV changing his alignment via trope knowledge (though I agree with others who say that it'd be overpowered to let a wolf cult a townie... just who knows what's possible if we get to where it's Cao, BookWombat, or Ripptor who's the last baddie!)
I don't think it's likely, but I want to share thoughts while I'm still alive.

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Clarification: my role told me Taffimai is the Strange Child. I realize it'll probably be revealed when I flip, but wanted to state it explicitly in case a [redacted] shows up.
Just being explicit that it's not that Taffimai told me that's her trope. I know it via my trope.

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Final post and then I'm going to bed. Idea to help everyone if I die today.

I die and flip Town.

At night, Ripptor kills AV.
BookWombat voids Taffimai. A wolf!AV is dangerous, but wolf!Taffimai might have a hidden power or a 'ticking clock'-like one that unlocks long enough... regardless an unknown. I reckon wolf!AV lied some about her power, but kept the generals honest in case someone has a power to get a sense of her powers.
AV (if town) modifies Taffimai's Strange Child to, instead of a mason chat, give an alignment reveal every Day Phase start. This reveals if Taffimai is wolf or neutral. Wolf AV probably messes with Taffimai or Cao.

If Taffimai does not reveal a Child Reveal, AV didn't do her job. Probably because she's a wolf. But AV is already dead to Ripptor so we just won, no?
If Taffimai is wolf, lynch.
If Taffimai is neutral, I think she said she'd autowin when Day starts. But regardless, neutral so who cares? Proceed to try to figure out who is bad amongst the three confirmed townies.

Of course, a better plan might work. I'm exhausted right now. But this came to me as an idea of how Taffimai can win if still neutral, we kill AV if she's the wolf, and we have good odds of catching the baddie if it's somehow not me, AV, or Taffimai. If y'all lynch me today. I guess now I feel okay being the lynch.

[AvatarVecna]

So, Taffi claimed neutral, so worst case in flipping her is needing to rely on a Vigilante kill to sort out the last remaining?

I don't have time to look, but I thought Deadchat was pushing for us to flip Taffi if we were going to pick between the two?

"Deadchat" was pushing for us to lynch JeenLeen before Taff, if things came to that. However, that information is part of the Cultist post that has a lot of suspect material in it, and also it feels really weird to think a mostly-town deadchat is saying "if you have to lynch one person in the town/neutral mason pair, please lynch the townie". Like...that's really weird.

If JeenLeen isn't the last wolf AV could change my power to not having only one use of each power so I could kill Taffimai as well as Ripptor so single voids wouldn't work.

I could maybe do that. I'm leery to base a lynch decision around what I could theoretically do. I could probably make a change like that if I knew your trope name, and could even make it permanent (for all the good that'll do us right now). However, all I can do is make suggestions; gac would probably tell me if that plan is acceptable or not, but I've been warned that there's a difference between a suggestion being acceptable and...actually getting accepted.

And that's if I have your trope name. If I don't have your trope name, my power use is "I would like to target Book Wombat". I can maybe make a suggestion, but I don't receive feedback on it being acceptable; if I did, I could just bombard gac with questions like "well can I change Ripptor to a seer? How about Rogan? How about bladescape" etc etc. And I don't receive feedback on whether my power worked, or what effect it had. And I can't make the change last longer than the single night I targeted you (so if you used a scry, I could use my power on you to turn it to a watcher or motion detector instead).

The main thing is, if I don't have the trope name, best you're getting is a sidegrade that neither of us gets to really choose. In the event today's flip doesn't come up scum, would you really wanna trust me with a trope name?

Not that it's going to convince anyone, but one reason I'm sure JeenLeen isn't a wolf is that he's known my win condition from the start, and he'd have to have picked night kills with the express purpose to screw me over. Which they'd have no reason to want to do.

...I...what?

"JeenLeen can't be a wolf because if he was a wolf, he's picked the exact nightkills that would prevent me from leaving the game, and force me to stay around to assist him."

...that's the reason you think Jeen...isn't a wolf???

From what I understand, Taffimai wins once Night starts if AV dies today because every living player will be on her list as of Night starting. A new person is added each Phase.
I don't 100% get how that jives with needing AV and Ripptor dead... but I've misunderstood stuff before. Taffimai can clarify as needed; I'll be quiet about it lest I misspeak.

Yeah wouldn't wanna slip in a way that outs your buddy's slip any more than you already have.

If AV is the wolf, then her power could do "who knows what", and I'd be very worried about letting her know our tropes.

Here's a pro-Town and jerk move: AV, I am The Scrappy and Papa Wolf, in communication with the Strange Child. I don't know if Taffimai has a second trope or not.

Pro-Town
If AV is town, I want her to know Taffimai's trope when Night starts.

...

Just being explicit that it's not that Taffimai told me that's her trope. I know it via my trope.

The dichotomy is interesting, because it gives me JeenLeen's tropes (which is a lil hypocritical), but doesn't give me Taffimai's, which he claims he was doing for pro-town reasons. He's not actually given us information on Taffimai though.

Either JeenLeen is misspeaking yet again, or Taff has lied to JeenLeen, or JeenLeen and Taff are both lying to us. The "Strange Child" trope does not exist. Every power possessed by people has an actual searchable trope name. Rogan's Good Cop/Bad Cop, Metastachydium's Nothing Is Scarier, Snowblaze's Xanatos Gambit, all link properly. Strange Child doesn't exist. Idk if Jeen just screwed up, or got lied to and didn't bother checking the wiki, or is telling a very bad lie to protect their buddy after they flip, or what. But this isn't correct, whether honestly or dishonestly.

EDIT: I'm leaving my vote on Taffimai. Both slots have been weird all game, but Cultist was weird about them in a way that makes me think Taff should get checked first.

[Taffimai]

...I...what?

"JeenLeen can't be a wolf because if he was a wolf, he's picked the exact nightkills that would prevent me from leaving the game, and force me to stay around to assist him."

...that's the reason you think Jeen...isn't a wolf???

Yes. It would have been laughably easy for me to win if wolves had wanted to cooperate with me, and since my flip turns JeenLeen into an innocent child they should have wanted to do that (though obviously if they were callous they could've also NKed me to the same effect). Earlier in the game I entertained the notion that maybe he was a wolf who wasn't allowed to say so, but the NKs contradict that idea. Also, Bladescape clearly treated him as a future misyeet, not a fellow wolf imo.

Yeah wouldn't wanna slip in a way that outs your buddy's slip any more than you already have.

It's not a slip. If we eliminate the last wolf today, regardless of who it is, I win with town. I just genuinely can't see it being JeenLeen. If we eliminate a town who's not on my win list (either you or Ripptor), I win tonight because the other one gets added and it means I have everyone. If we eliminate a town who's on my list, the earliest I can win is tomorrow, and I could lose if the night actions go badly for me like they did last night.

The dichotomy is interesting, because it gives me JeenLeen's tropes (which is a lil hypocritical), but doesn't give me Taffimai's, which he claims he was doing for pro-town reasons. He's not actually given us information on Taffimai though.

Either JeenLeen is misspeaking yet again, or Taff has lied to JeenLeen, or JeenLeen and Taff are both lying to us. The "Strange Child" trope does not exist. Every power possessed by people has an actual searchable trope name. Rogan's Good Cop/Bad Cop, Metastachydium's Nothing Is Scarier, Snowblaze's Xanatos Gambit, all link properly. Strange Child doesn't exist. Idk if Jeen just screwed up, or got lied to and didn't bother checking the wiki, or is telling a very bad lie to protect their buddy after they flip, or what. But this isn't correct, whether honestly or dishonestly.

EDIT: I'm leaving my vote on Taffimai. Both slots have been weird all game, but Cultist was weird about them in a way that makes me think Taff should get checked first.

JeenLeen's role title will be "The Annoying Dad" which is how he's referred to in my role description, and his tropes are probably The Scrappy and Papa Wolf like he says, because that's what he told me too a few days ago. My title is "The Strange Child", and I have never shared my tropes, nor will I.

[Book Wombat]

When has trusting someone in Werewolf ever gone wrong?

Cards of Power: Your deck holds your power. You have a single use of the following powers: A kill, A scry, A bane, A Roleblock.
Third Time's the Charm: Sometimes you let the cards lead the way. Every Three nights you may perform a reading. (The first use of this may be any night). When you perform a reading, you randomly use one of your four powers on your target. This use does not count against your single use and having used the power already does not prevent it from being activated by this power.

[JeenLeen]

As I said in my supposedly final post, I can see me being lynched as the best move. And I'm dying anyway, so I'll go out in style.
JeenLeen

Sorry I was so suspicious. Again, highly recommend void Taffimai and kill AV to give the maybe-neutral a chance to win. And I guess me dying is extra safe with my tropes out but not Taffimai's.

\JeenLeen's role title will be "The Annoying Dad" which is how he's referred to in my role description, and his tropes are probably The Scrappy and Papa Wolf like he says, because that's what he told me too a few days ago. My title is "The Strange Child", and I have never shared my tropes, nor will I.

Okay, yeah. I thought it was a trope, but it's a role.

[gac3]

Begin Transmission

Things seem to be calming down. Though we are getting a strange number of messages from beyond the grave. Luckily our mayor has lasted longer than any acting mayor in history. Also we have been researching the claim about the villains being able to further kill the invincible Mayor and so far we have discovered....

End Transmission

Spoiler: Votes

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Jeen 4
AV 1
Taff 1

Spoiler: Flip

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Jeenleen you are the The Annoying Dad, Town.
Your tropes are
>>> The Scrappy: For some reason everyone just hates you, despite the game master's good intentions. You get used to it though. You count as having one less vote on you for normal.
Papa Wolf: You are the parent of the Strange Child. You will be given a private chat with them. If they would die, you can choose to die instead.

24 hours left for the night

[Book Wombat]

Oh, that didn't go so well. I guess tonight is the night where it is all decided.

[Taffimai]

I guess this is where I express how much I would appreciate being left alive

[Book Wombat]

Honestly, I do find a town/wolf mason pair more likely than a town/neutral pair. The sacrificial power just makes things stranger.

[Ripptor]

Gotta say, the trope being named "Papa Wolf" is concerning on it's own... I do wonder if the Strange Child would be a wolf in that case?

And JeenLeen wasn't ensured that Taffi was Town in that flip either...

[Taffimai]

Let me remind you that if you don't kill me, you will know whether or not I've been speaking the truth tomorrow morning. If I was truthful, I win and leave the game. If I was lying, I'll be around and you can vote me.

[Taffimai]

...and in case any friendly neighbourhood wolf feels inclined to take pity on me: please kill Ripptor ❤️

I mean killing the vig is the right option for all three others tonight anyway, but it's the thought that counts

[AvatarVecna]

If JeenLeen isn't the last wolf AV could change my power to not having only one use of each power so I could kill Taffimai as well as Ripptor so single voids wouldn't work.

When has trusting someone in Werewolf ever gone wrong?

Sounds good to me. Let's bury this child. They'd need two voids to get out of this now.

[Taffimai]

Look at the lovely little bunny:




If I die, the bunny will be sad.

[Taffimai]

Dead Taffy, a preview:

[Taffimai]

Last chance to change your minds! Think of the bunny!

[gac3]

Begin Transmission

Well the Mayor was killed by a spectral ghost. Luckily there was a backup mayor. Then it turns out that the shapely back up mayor had also been murdered with their foot buried in the face of a bizzare child who was recently made an orphan. Strangely the Orphan was holding a sign that said "I win". Overall it wasn't a good night. It would seem by looking outside that we may have one more surprisingly sudden death.

End Transmission

Spoiler: Flips

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Cape you are the Hero of Utropia, Town.
Your tropes are
>>> The Cape: You are Utropia's greatest hero. Everyone begins game with the knowledge that you are town.
Heart is an Awesome Power: Some say your power is not worth it. They may be right but you make the most of it. You can always vote. Even once dead and in the dead chat you can make and change your vote during the day. You may not post other than that once dead.

You have been appointed Heir to the City.
You gain the trope:
>>> Immortal Ruler: You have been selected as the leader during a crisis. People have turned to you for guidance. You count as having an extra vote.

Ripptor you are the Karate Babe, Town.
Your tropes are
>>> Kick Chick: Nobody can beat you in a fight. Each night choose one player to kill.
Waif-Fu: Your form and style is distinctive. Should the person survive the kill somehow, they will know you were responsible

Taffimai you are the Strange Child, Neutral.
Your win condition: See below.
Your tropes are
>>> Blue and Orange Morality: You haven't seemed to inherited your father's morality. Yours is... More odd. Rather than siding with town or wolves you have formed your own alliance. Each phase you are given a name to be added to your team. This serves no mechanical function. To win you must end the game with three or more allies still alive. If the game ends with fewer than 3 people, as long as all remaining people are your ally, you can still win.
Embarrassing Hobby: You don't want people to know about your habit of making your own team. You scry as town.
Child to their Badass: You have a father looking out for you. You will be given a private chat with "The Annoying Dad", Town. They are always considered part of your alliance.

Spoiler: End of Day Condition

Show

Um... Day goes until Cape is willing to lock in a vote and decides he will not change it. 48 hours max

[AvatarVecna]

Voting Book Wombat, nothing else for it really.

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At this point I kinda just gotta hope that deadchat has the good sense to vote BW but I'm sure they're all just assume it's some master plan on my part. I'm solvy the whole game and BW coasts. I try to help dead townies (even if it backfired by cultist converting himself), and BW kills three townies. I remove BW's limit so we have two kills on Taff to get around a possible void, and Book kills Cao instead of Taff.

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Like, really, look at it from BW's perspective. If BW is town, BW knows for a fact that Ripptor and Cao are town, 100%. BW knows the final wolf must be either AV or Taffimai. With Ripptor already trying to kill Taffimai in the night...who would you target with that extra kill power? If BW is town, why is Cao dead instead of me?

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And the knowledge that all this arguing is just as likely to get me lynched as BW doesn't help my motivation, that's for sure.

EDIT: We didn't get an update from Zelphas last night. If deadchat has questions they want answered to help Cao decide his vote, I guess I'll be around to answer them.

[CaoimhinTheCape]

Vote: Book Wombat Final

[gac3]

Begin Transmission

it seems the fate of the city has been decided by a jury of the damned. Oh no. The winner is laughing maniacally. There are explosions. I think they are getting closer. Oh no. They've made it to th...


Transmission End

The game has ended in victory for the Wolves and neutrals. Congratulations to AV, Flat, Metaz Blade, Cultist, Xi, Snow, Kraken, Taff

Spoiler: Flips

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Avatar Vecna you are the Card Shark, Wolf.
Your tropes are
>>> Manipulate the Deck: You know how to change the game. Each night choose one person. You can either choose to manipulate their target or their action. Your control of this is not fine. It throws off their hand rather than discarding the cards.
Exploited Trope: If you can manage to see the opponents hand then you control the game. If you can name the trope of your target, your manipulate the deck power gains fine control. You may alter it's use more thuroughly.

Book Wombat you are the Tarot Reader, Town.
Your tropes are
>>> Cards of Power: Your deck holds your power. You have a single use of the following powers: A kill, A scry, A bane, A Roleblock.
Third Time's the Charm: Sometimes you let the cards lead the way. Every Three nights you may perform a reading. (The first use of this may be any night). When you perform a reading, you randomly use one of your four powers on your target. This use does not count against your single use and having used the power already does not prevent it from being activated by this power.

[Batcathat]

Congratulations to the winners. Well played.

I guess I can at least take pride in being the only elected mayor of the game. (Not that it did me much good, but still).

[Taffimai]

I need to make a confession

Spoiler: I LIED

Show

The bunny is fine

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So many congratulations to the winners ❤️