MitD XVII: [Y]ou were quite clear. I was just being pedantic

[Shining Wrath]

For some reason I thought I was recorded as "ANB", followed by "Protean". My apologies.

[TaiLiu]

You vote has been recorded! Ruck was pretty convincing.

Thank you! Yeah, it was a really great essay.

[Neponde]

In my latest reread, I noticed in the final panel that Windstriker looks surprised/afraid. I am unaware of horses/celestials sensory or extrasensory capabilities, but is there a group of creatures that would cause the horse to react more strongly than to, say, a goblinoid?

If this has been discussed before, forgive me. It would take less time to read war & peace than this thread's history.

Edited to add: in panel four the surprise look.is back. Perhaps it is merely picking up Miko's emotions, similar to V and blackwing.

[Charybdis136]

In my latest reread, I noticed in the final panel that Windstriker looks surprised/afraid. I am unaware of horses/celestials sensory or extrasensory capabilities, but is there a group of creatures that would cause the horse to react more strongly than to, say, a goblinoid?

If this has been discussed before, forgive me. It would take less time to read war & peace than this thread's history.

Edited to add: in panel four the surprise look.is back. Perhaps it is merely picking up Miko's emotions, similar to V and blackwing.

My take on windstriker is that he is reacting to things that would also make an average person surprised. The appearance of someone they did not know was there, like when the MitD suddenly appears. Then when slashed numerous times, the MitD says that it tickles. In every other panel the horse does not seem to mind the presence of the MitD, so I take it to be a reaction to circumstance and not the creature itself. We have to remember that paladin mounts get bonuses to int so windstriker should be able to understand as much as an average person.

[Kastor]

I would like to change my guess from Athasian Nightmare Beast (old version) to Corpse Tearer Linnorm.

I've been ruminating on what my guess should be for a while and ANB hasn't sat right for a while, but CTL feels better in a lot of regards, and I'd like to make a case for CTL. First I will outline basic argument, then move on to major draws.

First off, does it fit the big scenes?
1, Escape: Feasible by access to Miracle through Cleric Spellcasting.
2, Tower Scene: AC 33 and DR/20 magic. Strength 36, special flung condition.
3, Circus: Resembles "rotting flesh", yet has 19 CHA. No relevant passive abilities nor active powers.
4, Impossible categories: Is technically a kind of dragon. CR 28.
5, Publish timeline: Existed in 2e and published in MM2 for 3e in 2001.
6, size: is Gargantuan, with a just-below-target 36.
7, Mind effects: has no immunities, merely high resistance. Susceptible.

There are several major advantages to CTL that fit these criteria in unique ways. The first of which being the fact that CTL existed in second edition as well as third edition and 3.5. We know the update to 3e happened at some point in the world, evidenced by leftover 2e monsters, such as the pit near the Talisman of Dorukan, and Franklin the Piercer. In all publications for the CTL, all are powerful enough and fit the scenes at the times they occur.
Second, the Tower Scene. CTL has a feature that inflicts a negative level whenever they hit, and no drain is visible upon Miko nor Windstriker. Of note is that the actual impact is not actually seen. Miko of all people would rather return home to warn of the doom than complain about a negative level. Plus, home is where healers with Restoration are. Additionally, CTL possesses a condition where a creature who is snatched (Automatically rolled grapple on hit) and flung, the victim flies 110 feet, superseding the normal rules for snatch. The text makes no mention of what to do with regards to obstacles, so Giant may have ruled that RAW would be funniest and simply had Miko and Windstriker pass through the walls to complete the 110 feet. Alternatively, the feat Awesome Blow might have been in play, though this seems less plausible in a game of "who can hit the lightest".
Furthermore, the CTL has +34 to Knowledge (arcana), which could explain the otherwise inexplicable flashes of insight into Tsukiko's half spell and the nature of the Astral. As Elan demonstrated with a Bardic Knowledge roll in #260, a successful roll can grant one knowledge they might not have obtained otherwise.
It is unknown how long CTLs live, but being a type of dragon, it can be assumed to be an extremely long time. If it followed a similar growth period as true dragons, it would remain a juvenile until roughly 50 years old, where it would still be in the Medium category, easily keeping them in the box and umbrella. This also explains how they would stay juvenile for 30+ years, and why they are always hungry, as they are still growing.
Finally, his environment when discovered would have been odd, normally lairing in underground sepulchers, but their terrain is listed as "any". Perhaps there was a sepulcher near where he was found that he had stumbled out of? Pure speculation, but nothing that refutes the facts.


Misc. Points-
Oona's "kebab" comment is apt for a rotting flesh monster
Dragons are a well known form, but a rotting linnorm might throw Big Game Hunters for a loop.
MiTD would truly be tiny compared to his father, who would be 330' long (From 2e stats)
CTLs would be able to look around with their necks rather than turning their whole body around

In conclusion, I feel that the basis of the Corpse Tearer Linnorm fits most, if not all, criteria to both an extremely high degree of accuracy and precision. The thematic feeling of such a monstrous and clearly dangerous creature seems to fit without needing to resort to any kind of a stretch.

Edit: Reread Oona's exact comment and realized I misunderstood the subject.

[dmc91356]

Interesting. Does this fling ability you mention essentially take the place of the idea that a certain level of strength is needed to blow Miko and her horse through the wall and into the distance? Otherwise, I fail to see how a 36 strength at adulthood can be scaled down to account for the juvenile age and still provide enough oomph to support the tower scene. If this ability is something separate and can be ascribed to a juvenile of the species, then maybe you have a way around that which would be cool.

Food for thought.

(Although, if the MiTD has cleric levels for miracle, doesn't it also have cleric levels to create undead, despite Redcloak's statement about the MiTD not having such levels when he was asking to help make zombies . . . ?)

[Kastor]

Interesting. Does this fling ability you mention essentially take the place of the idea that a certain level of strength is needed to blow Miko and her horse through the wall and into the distance? Otherwise, I fail to see how a 36 strength at adulthood can be scaled down to account for the juvenile age and still provide enough oomph to support the tower scene. If this ability is something separate and can be ascribed to a juvenile of the species, then maybe you have a way around that which would be cool.

Food for thought.

(Although, if the MiTD has cleric levels for miracle, doesn't it also have cleric levels to create undead, despite Redcloak's statement about the MiTD not having such levels when he was asking to help make zombies . . . ?)

Again, if taken literally, the ability would simply circumvent the effects of obstacles. This would, of course, be incredibly silly, but rule of funny means that its on the table. It would even explain why Windstriker lands precisely on top of Miko. And as a feat effect, it would not scale with age.

As for the cleric argument, I need to review the exact phrasing in the scene. What strip does that scene occur in?

[Kastor]

(Although, if the MiTD has cleric levels for miracle, doesn't it also have cleric levels to create undead, despite Redcloak's statement about the MiTD not having such levels when he was asking to help make zombies . . . ?)

Found it.
While Redcloak expresses doubt, possibly because MitD is young, or Redcloak merely thinks he is lazy, or maybe he just doesn't have absolute knowledge of MitD's capabilities. MitD emphatically says that he can do such a feat. I simply do not think that scene is proof that MitD does not, in fact, have those capabilities.

Redcloak asks if he gained 5 levels in cleric, not if he HAS five levels in cleric. MitD likely took the question literally and answered literally.

[InvisibleBison]

There is a big problem with the idea that MitD is a corpse tearer linnorm: Said creature is from MM2, and Redcloak has a copy of that book. If MitD were a linnorm, Redcloak wouldn't think that MitD needed to gain five levels of cleric to be able to cast animate dead.

[Kastor]

There is a big problem with the idea that MitD is a corpse tearer linnorm: Said creature is from MM2, and Redcloak has a copy of that book. If MitD were a linnorm, Redcloak wouldn't think that MitD needed to gain five levels of cleric to be able to cast animate dead.

That is... a distressingly excellent counter-argument.
I'm still going to ask that my guess be placed as Corpse Tearer Linnorm for the time being, but I'm going to have to think about that. Thanks for the note!

[Crusher]

I would like to change my guess from Athasian Nightmare Beast (old version) to Corpse Tearer Linnorm.

I've been ruminating on what my guess should be for a while and ANB hasn't sat right for a while, but CTL feels better in a lot of regards, and I'd like to make a case for CTL. First I will outline basic argument, then move on to major draws.

First off, does it fit the big scenes?
1, Escape: Feasible by access to Miracle through Cleric Spellcasting.
2, Tower Scene: AC 33 and DR/20 magic. Strength 36, special flung condition.
3, Circus: Resembles "rotting flesh", yet has 19 CHA. No relevant passive abilities nor active powers.
4, Impossible categories: Is technically a kind of dragon. CR 28.
5, Publish timeline: Existed in 2e and published in MM2 for 3e in 2001.
6, size: is Gargantuan, with a just-below-target 36.
7, Mind effects: has no immunities, merely high resistance. Susceptible.

There are several major advantages to CTL that fit these criteria in unique ways. The first of which being the fact that CTL existed in second edition as well as third edition and 3.5. We know the update to 3e happened at some point in the world, evidenced by leftover 2e monsters, such as the pit near the Talisman of Dorukan, and Franklin the Piercer. In all publications for the CTL, all are powerful enough and fit the scenes at the times they occur.
Second, the Tower Scene. CTL has a feature that inflicts a negative level whenever they hit, and no drain is visible upon Miko nor Windstriker. Of note is that the actual impact is not actually seen. Miko of all people would rather return home to warn of the doom than complain about a negative level. Plus, home is where healers with Restoration are. Additionally, CTL possesses a condition where a creature who is snatched (Automatically rolled grapple on hit) and flung, the victim flies 110 feet, superseding the normal rules for snatch. The text makes no mention of what to do with regards to obstacles, so Giant may have ruled that RAW would be funniest and simply had Miko and Windstriker pass through the walls to complete the 110 feet. Alternatively, the feat Awesome Blow might have been in play, though this seems less plausible in a game of "who can hit the lightest".
Furthermore, the CTL has +34 to Knowledge (arcana), which could explain the otherwise inexplicable flashes of insight into Tsukiko's half spell and the nature of the Astral. As Elan demonstrated with a Bardic Knowledge roll in #260, a successful roll can grant one knowledge they might not have obtained otherwise.
It is unknown how long CTLs live, but being a type of dragon, it can be assumed to be an extremely long time. If it followed a similar growth period as true dragons, it would remain a juvenile until roughly 50 years old, where it would still be in the Medium category, easily keeping them in the box and umbrella. This also explains how they would stay juvenile for 30+ years, and why they are always hungry, as they are still growing.
Finally, his environment when discovered would have been odd, normally lairing in underground sepulchers, but their terrain is listed as "any". Perhaps there was a sepulcher near where he was found that he had stumbled out of? Pure speculation, but nothing that refutes the facts.


Misc. Points-
Oona's "kebab" comment is apt for a rotting flesh monster
Dragons are a well known form, but a rotting linnorm might throw Big Game Hunters for a loop.
MiTD would truly be tiny compared to his father, who would be 330' long (From 2e stats)
CTLs would be able to look around with their necks rather than turning their whole body around

In conclusion, I feel that the basis of the Corpse Tearer Linnorm fits most, if not all, criteria to both an extremely high degree of accuracy and precision. The thematic feeling of such a monstrous and clearly dangerous creature seems to fit without needing to resort to any kind of a stretch.

Edit: Reread Oona's exact comment and realized I misunderstood the subject.

Your guess has been swapped!

[Tubercular Ox]

I'm resurrecting the Hunting Horror. When Xykon refers to dwarves being a delicacy for the MitD, he might have dwarves confused with Lovecraftian ghouls, who live deep underground like dwarves. Lovecraftian ghouls have connections to Nyarlathotep through the Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath, Nyarlathotep takes on the form of the Haunter in the Dark, which is a giant hunting horror. I'm not suggesting MitD is Nyarlathotep, just an average Hunting Horror, who are servants of Nyarlathotep.

Rich exhausted all the good material on Hunting Horrors in the early books so the hints are getting more outre.

[InvisibleBison]

When Xykon refers to dwarves being a delicacy for the MitD, he might have dwarves confused with Lovecraftian ghouls, who live deep underground like dwarves.

No he couldn't have. The two are nothing alike.

[Tubercular Ox]

No he couldn't have. The two are nothing alike.

Read the Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath. Where they live is practically the Mines of Moria.

And then the MitD says, "I don't... think so," because he knows Xykon is wrong, Lovecraft's ghouls aren't dwarves, but he has the hesitation and the thoughtful line because he knows Xykon got it from somewhere.

And then Xykon makes a zombie reference, which seems 100% unforced, but putting zombie next to dwarf is what helped me think of ghouls, so serendipity I guess.

[InvisibleBison]

Read the Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath. Where they live is practically the Mines of Moria.

A single point of similarity between two otherwise extremely different kinds of beings does not make it plausible that Xykon would confuse one for the other.

[Tubercular Ox]

A single point of similarity between two otherwise extremely different kinds of beings does not make it plausible that Xykon would confuse one for the other.

Sure, I agree. I think this was written to be re-read later after the reveal.

I see a lot of the best arguments for the hunting horror have fallen off the main chart, let me summarize:

The Hunting Horror is described in its monster entry as the “Haunter in the Dark”, making it the best major candidate for a satisfying reveal for the normies. Picture Elan saying, “You mean the Monster in the Dark was a Haunter in the Dark all along?”

The Hunting Horror was published in d20 Call of Cthulhu in 2002, before the 2004 deadline, and a little bit before Rich first started creating published content for WotC, with an early project being a Monster Manual. If WotC gave him a copy of a bunch of recent books so he could research existing monsters for possible inclusion in the Monster Manual, then Rich has means, motive, and opportunity to be reading d20 CoC at around the right time.

The HH’s listed climate/terrain is any nighttime or sunless place, so not the jungle in the middle of the day. It’s also a d20 CoC creature, so he should be in the part of the world where CoC creatures hang out, which is likely a bit distant from the part of the world where the Final Fantasy people hang out.

It’s weird, HH’s take 3d6 damage from sunlight and 1d6 damage from torchlight, but they have 10 fast healing that’s not disabled by light, so there’s no reason for either to cause panic in the MitD.

All CoC creatures have an insanity aura that drives people mad. The HH also has an aura that nauseates people who are too close. Neither are activated abilities. When the MitD is shown off to the audience in Start of Darkness, the number of insane and/or nauseated people are statistically correct for his save DCs.

The one guy has never seen anything like it because he’s a d20 CoC creature and not in a main line book. The goblins are immune to insanity effects because all monsters in CoC are explicitly immune to it.

Xykon tells the MitD to eat Redcloak and spit out an amulet. This is an attack pattern of the HH: bite, improved grab, masticate, swallow whole, and then a vomit attack that fires a swallowed character at another.

On this note, he also has a tail with improved grab, which is enough appendages to pull the rope. (otherwise he struggles because he’s limbless by default, although every HH is a little different physically) He also makes a comment about pushing vs pulling. This is a clue because the HH has an SLA that lets him push enemies and an SLA that lets him grapple enemies but no SLA that lets him pull enemies.

The HH has a lot of SLA’s, but the CoC book encourages giving any monster spells as well, if they suit the plot. The CoC book also lists, as a rule, that no spell should be used exactly as printed nor have exactly the same name. So when I say “Escape!” is a renamed Word of Recall with fudged parameters that serve the plot, that is RAW and RAI for a Call of Cthulhu spell, as well as fitting for Rich’s attitude to the rules.

Spells in CoC come with ability damage to discourage you from using them frequently. Word of Recall causes 4 Int + 4 Wis damage, and I argue this is why the MitD falls asleep straight after using it. (SLA’s ignore this penalty.)

The HH can turn into a smoke form at will, which is why Miko’s attacks “tickle.” The HH has strength 34, which is up there. It’s his highest stat, and therefore a good one for Rich to want to show off. It would be problematic to show this in combat, because the HH needs actions to switch in and out of smoke form, but the MitD bought himself time to switch out of smoke form and into a solid form by asking to play a game.

Other stats: Str 34, Dex 15, Con 20, Int 17, Wis 15, Cha 21

Personally I’m skeptical it matters, but Gates figure in CoC. They are “a circle or pattern on a floor or another horizontal surface”. They’re permanent and they teleport you around. There are a number of spells that manipulate them. HH’s are supposed to be deeply versed in magic since they serve Nyarlathotep, so the idea that a HH would think of this kind of gate first isn’t implausible.

The STOP! command could be either the suggestion he can cast at will, the 10d10 sonic Roar he can use every 1d4 rounds, or both together.

The HH is a Dragon. The stomp is the Shock Wave feat:

Spoiler

Show

Shock Wave
( Draconomicon, p. 73)

You can strike the ground with your tail so hard it knocks other creatures down.

Prerequisite
Power Attack (PH) , STR 13, dragon, size Large or larger,

Benefit
You may, as a full-round action, strike a solid surface with your tail and create a shock wave that radiates out from your space and continues for a number of feet equal to 5 × your racial Hit Dice. Make a bull rush attack by rolling once regardless of how many creatures are in the radius. Every creature in the radius makes a Strength check and compares it to your roll. Those who fail their opposed checks are knocked down.

Special
Structures and unattended objects at least partially within the shock wave take damage equal to 1d6 + your Strength bonus

I think the MitD has this feat strictly to hint that it is a Dragon.

So the summary:
Haunter in the Dark. Seriously. It's called the haunter in the dark.
Right place, right time for Rich to read about it.
Statistically accurate appearance
One of the only suggestions to have a RAW+RAI "Escape!" spell.
Most clues (admittedly not the dwarf thing) are of the, "Oh, hey. This is on the stat block, let's show it off" variety.

[InvisibleBison]

Sure, I agree. I think this was written to be re-read later after the reveal.

I don't understand what you mean by this. Are you agreeing that it's not plausible for Xykon to confuse dwarves and Lovecraftian ghouls? How would it make sense in retrospect if it doesn't make sense at all?

The Hunting Horror is described in its monster entry as the “Haunter in the Dark”, making it the best major candidate for a satisfying reveal for the normies. Picture Elan saying, “You mean the Monster in the Dark was a Haunter in the Dark all along?”

I'm pretty sure "Monster in the Darkness" is just a fan term, not one that occurs in the comic.

All CoC creatures have an insanity aura that drives people mad. The HH also has an aura that nauseates people who are too close. Neither are activated abilities. When the MitD is shown off to the audience in Start of Darkness, the number of insane and/or nauseated people are statistically correct for his save DCs.

I'd like to know how you calculated that. In particular, we don't know any of the audience's save bonuses, so I don't know how you could conclude that the amount of affected people is statistically correct. Also, I feel obliged to point out that no one in that scene was driven mad.

And I don't think a creature that has a good chance of driving anyone who sees it insane makes for a particularly good circus exhibit.

The goblins are immune to insanity effects because all monsters in CoC are explicitly immune to it.

The whole point of OOTS is that goblins aren't monsters.

Xykon tells the MitD to eat Redcloak and spit out an amulet. This is an attack pattern of the HH: bite, improved grab, masticate, swallow whole, and then a vomit attack that fires a swallowed character at another.

Xykon doesn't know what MitD is when he gives him that order, so whether or not it overlaps with something MitD is capable of doing is irrelevant.

On this note, he also has a tail with improved grab, which is enough appendages to pull the rope.

Is it? Are there examples of creatures with improved grab on an ostensibly non-prehensile limb using that limb to manipulate objects?

He also makes a comment about pushing vs pulling. This is a clue because the HH has an SLA that lets him push enemies and an SLA that lets him grapple enemies but no SLA that lets him pull enemies.

The rope isn't his enemy, though. It's not even a creature. Can this SLA also be used to manipulate objects? Note that when talking about the relative ease of pushing and pulling MitD specifically says "something", not "someone", so his experiences are not based on pushing and pulling creatures.

The HH has a lot of SLA’s, but the CoC book encourages giving any monster spells as well, if they suit the plot. The CoC book also lists, as a rule, that no spell should be used exactly as printed nor have exactly the same name. So when I say “Escape!” is a renamed Word of Recall with fudged parameters that serve the plot, that is RAW and RAI for a Call of Cthulhu spell, as well as fitting for Rich’s attitude to the rules.

Having one of the most distinctive things that MitD do be something that Rich added to his statblock strikes me as not really being compatible with what he's said about MitD's identity being guessable.

Spells in CoC come with ability damage to discourage you from using them frequently. Word of Recall causes 4 Int + 4 Wis damage, and I argue this is why the MitD falls asleep straight after using it. (SLA’s ignore this penalty.)

Ability damage doesn't make you sleepy, though. Unless you're positing that MitD only has an Int and/or Wis score of 4, so the damage caused him to pass out, but MitD is still awake immediately after the escape, so I don't think that works.

The HH can turn into a smoke form at will, which is why Miko’s attacks “tickle.”

I'm not sure why the MitD would have turned into smoke when trying to stop Miko from escaping. Also, is a hunting horror in smoke form able to be tickled? It doesn't exactly have the appropriate anatomical features to be tickled in the conventional fashion.

[Peelee]

The Hunting Horror is described in its monster entry as the “Haunter in the Dark”, making it the best major candidate for a satisfying reveal for the normies. Picture Elan saying, “You mean the Monster in the Dark was a Haunter in the Dark all along?

All other issues aside, picturing Elan saying that would make me think, "really?! Something that blindingly obvious and all those nerds couldn't put it together until it was nearly over?!"

Speaking solely for me, that would be the opposite of satisfying.

[Mike Havran]

I would like to join the guessing crew. Put me down for Protean club, please

[Ruck]

I would like to join the guessing crew. Put me down for Protean club, please

There are dozens of us! Dozens!

[Tzardok]

There aren't. It just looks like it, but in truth it's always the same protean posting in different guises.

[Peelee]

There aren't. It just looks like it, but in truth it's always the same protean posting in different guises.

Is it an Italian Protean?

[b_jonas]

I'm pretty sure "Monster in the Darkness" is just a fan term, not one that occurs in the comic.

The “Monster” part is irrelevant here. Kodrog in #259 calls him “the thing in the darkness”; and Redcloak calls him “our friend in the dark” when praising Xykon in #376 3rd.

[Beni-Kujaku]

Is it an Italian Protean?

It's a Protean, posing as an italian, posing as different guises! What don't you get about this!

(or maybe it's just posing as a Protean?)

[No good @ names]

There is a big problem with the idea that MitD is a corpse tearer linnorm: Said creature is from MM2, and Redcloak has a copy of that book. If MitD were a linnorm, Redcloak wouldn't think that MitD needed to gain five levels of cleric to be able to cast animate dead.

That’s some good recall. You lot continually surprise me.


Potential easy, although meta, explanation is Rich forgot about that in that particular comic. Similarly Redcloak, as nerdy as he is, has nothing on this forum, and also doesn’t have the internet to correct him so he could be forgiven for it if he missed it too.

Boooo! Boring explanation I know, sorry.

[Ruck]

It's a Protean, posing as an italian, posing as different guises! What don't you get about this!

(or maybe it's just posing as a Protean?)

He's a cipher, wrapped in an enigma, smothered in secret sauce.

[Tubercular Ox]

I don't understand what you mean by this. Are you agreeing that it's not plausible for Xykon to confuse dwarves and Lovecraftian ghouls? How would it make sense in retrospect if it doesn't make sense at all?

This isn't evidence that the MitD is a hunting horror, it's just a tidbit to show that the HH is not disqualified by Xykon's statement. If it doesn't make sense without first believing it's a HH, that's fine.

I'm pretty sure "Monster in the Darkness" is just a fan term, not one that occurs in the comic.

Here’s what Rich’s first impression of the Hunting Horror would’ve been:

“Hunting Horrors haunt the dark places of the universe, from which they are called up at the whim of their lord to hunt down any who have offended him.”

“Some maintain that they are actually made of incarnate darkness”

“Hunting Horrors exist to seek out prey, and are compelled to either destroy their victims utterly or fetch them back to their dark master.”

And while that doesn't sound like the MitD fifteen years later, at the time of strip #100, the MitD was still reveling in killing people and sharing villainous laughs with Redcloak.

This is my whole argument. The MitD is the HH because the HH has the nature and purpose of the MitD at the time Rich was looking for a base monster. Everything else is either Rich rubbing our noses in it or setting us up for an, "Aha!" moment after the reveal.

Every candidate should meet this standard.

I'd like to know how you calculated that. In particular, we don't know any of the audience's save bonuses, so I don't know how you could conclude that the amount of affected people is statistically correct. Also, I feel obliged to point out that no one in that scene was driven mad.

I humbly retract the comment. The bottom line is, yes, I made assumptions. I said the three people without lines around their eyes count as unaffected, and the guy who is throwing up was overaffected, as was the guy who is closing his eyes and refusing to look. I realize now those aren't going to carry here. And then there are more assumptions, so bleah. But in my heart I still believe! >_>

And I don't think a creature that has a good chance of driving anyone who sees it insane makes for a particularly good circus exhibit.

CoC Sanity rules are complicated and more suited to slowly creeping horror than downing a PC in one round. The victims are unhappy because their assumptions about how the world works are being challenged in unusual ways.
Everyone is going to recover, although the two I mentioned may need a little counselling to get over it. And the circus people are fine because there's a repeat-exposure rule that makes it so one monster can't take you out just by standing around for a long time.

The whole point of OOTS is that goblins aren't monsters.

Now, yes, but that's relatively new. It wasn't a huge deal in 2007, when Start of Darkness was published. Yes, Start of Darkness was written to make Redcloak sympathetic, but he was still evil. Also, whatever story Rich is telling, goblins are explicitly listed as being immune to sanity loss.

Xykon doesn't know what MitD is when he gives him that order, so whether or not it overlaps with something MitD is capable of doing is irrelevant.

Xykon only has to see him do it once to know he can do it again. And the story I'm telling is that Rich saw the HH could eat things and spit them out again, then decided to write a joke about it so he could point at it later to say he was hinting. The ability comes first, then the scenario.

Is it? Are there examples of creatures with improved grab on an ostensibly non-prehensile limb using that limb to manipulate objects?

Yes, the Hunting Horror. It uses its tail to carry things its master asks it to fetch, especially people, and it's nimble enough to eat things it's holding in its tail. There are rules for this in its monster entry. Once the HH can eat an ice cream cone, we're pretty much done with manual dexterity.

The rope isn't his enemy, though. It's not even a creature. Can this SLA also be used to manipulate objects? Note that when talking about the relative ease of pushing and pulling MitD specifically says "something", not "someone", so his experiences are not based on pushing and pulling creatures.

The ability comes first, the scenario later. The rope scene exists so the MitD can comment on his pushing and holding abilities, and whether or not he can use the push and hold on the rope is irrelevant to the joke, which exists to hint at the MitD's abilities. All that is important for the physicality of the scene is that the HH is not disqualified by it, and he's not, because he has a tail and bite that can both hold on to things from round to round. Personally I see the MitD transferring the rope from mouth to tail and back, but obviously that's artistic interpretation with no weight.

Having one of the most distinctive things that MitD do be something that Rich added to his statblock strikes me as not really being compatible with what he's said about MitD's identity being guessable.

The rule works like this:
“Spells should always have an aura of mystery and strangeness over them. Unlike in a high fantasy role-playing game, spells should never seem easy, mechanical, mundane - or safe.”

“It is common for spells to be found with slightly different parameters than those mentioned below. GMs can modify these spells slightly (or dramatically) for effect.”

“Never use the same name for a spell twice.”

Escape is mysterious and strange. We could have the side argument right now over whether it is a named spell that is being cast, or a word the MitD is shouting while activating some other abilitiy. We have compared it to every teleport effect in the game, and every one is either not up to the job or so powerful one wonders why Rich would choose to use it this way. No one knows what this spell is or how it works. We are unhappy because our assumptions about how the world works are being challenged in unusual ways.

Escape is not easy. The MitD has to struggle to cast it. It is not mechanical or mundane, rather, it drives the plot at the point it exists, while simultaneously driving forward the MitD's character arc. And it's not safe, MitD put himself in serious danger in order to cast it. (He promptly ducked all that danger a few strips later, but his ducking it is something we complain about because it wasn't a safe situation.)

This is not a thing Rich added to his statblock on a whim, it is something Rich planned with great care and strict adherence to the rules. And I swear, I think he did it just so he can look us in the eye later and say, "But I followed the rules."

The important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?

Escape is a renamed CoC Word of Recall with the Target adjusted not to include the MitD. And it curb stomped the plot when it showed up, as the rules demand it must before they allowed Rich to change the parameters. The only argument against it is some trust we have that Rich won't follow the rules as written. I get that there's a fine line between something he made up and something someone else made up, but he warned us about that.

(Further note: CoC Word of Recall lets you choose the sanctuary at the time of casting, but I don't Know if that matters if Rich changed the gist of the rules to say "Escape to a sanctuary." Also, Word of Recall is the only teleport effect in CoC that's not hitched to using a permanent gate)

Ability damage doesn't make you sleepy, though. Unless you're positing that MitD only has an Int and/or Wis score of 4, so the damage caused him to pass out, but MitD is still awake immediately after the escape, so I don't think that works.

Okay. I retract it.

I'm not sure why the MitD would have turned into smoke when trying to stop Miko from escaping. Also, is a hunting horror in smoke form able to be tickled? It doesn't exactly have the appropriate anatomical features to be tickled in the conventional fashion.

Why wouldn’t he turn into smoke? It’s at will. And again, I’m claiming that Rich saw “smoke form” and “34 strength” on the character sheet and tried to figure out how to show that off in the story somehow, not that the MitD had an encounter with Miko and Rich tried to game it out. The ability comes first. The scenario is written to fit the ability.

All other issues aside, picturing Elan saying that would make me think, "really?! Something that blindingly obvious and all those nerds couldn't put it together until it was nearly over?!"

Speaking solely for me, that would be the opposite of satisfying.

I'm happy we agree it's blindingly obvious, but we didn't figure this out until it was nearly over. I've known this since 2014, and the only reason I know is because someone in these threads suggested a Chaosium Hunting Horror because it was a creature of darkness that killed things for its master, years before I showed up. My novel contribution was to look up the d20 version of the monster.

People got hung up on the Escape spell, even though it's RAW and RAI and consistent with the personality Rich presents to us when he talks about the MitD.

But back to the topic, it has to be satisfying to the normies, not us. See also: Darkness incarnate that slays for its master.

[Peelee]

This I'm happy we agree it's blindingly obvious

I apologize if I gave the impression that I thought it is blindingly obvious. I do not, and I think that it being so incredibly on-the-nose while masquerading as a mystery would writing at a significantly lesser level than I expect from the comic. Which isn't to say that it can't be, but I sincerely doubt it is.

[Tubercular Ox]

I apologize if I gave the impression that I thought it is blindingly obvious. I do not, and I think that it being so incredibly on-the-nose while masquerading as a mystery would writing at a significantly lesser level than I expect from the comic. Which isn't to say that it can't be, but I sincerely doubt it is.

What kind of argument would I have to make to counter, "it's incredibly on-the-nose," as an objection?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Here’s what Rich’s first impression of the Hunting Horror would’ve been:

“Hunting Horrors haunt the dark places of the universe, from which they are called up at the whim of their lord to hunt down any who have offended him.”

“Some maintain that they are actually made of incarnate darkness”

“Hunting Horrors exist to seek out prey, and are compelled to either destroy their victims utterly or fetch them back to their dark master.”

And while that doesn't sound like the MitD fifteen years later, at the time of strip #100, the MitD was still reveling in killing people and sharing villainous laughs with Redcloak.

It doesn't sound like MitD 15 years later, and more damningly, it doesn't sound like MitD then either. MitD does not haunt the darkness, it wants out. It is not made of darkness at all, nor has anyone ever suggested he might. And he most definitely does not seek out prey, does not try to destroy victims and has not so much as fetched the mail for Xykon.

GW