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  1. - Top - End - #241
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    AvatarVecna's Avatar

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    Default Re: Candy-Coated Werewolf

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    @AV: I've read your post. I hate it and feel personally attacked by you. I realize this makes me a bad judge of your alignment, but I personally think my case on you has enough basis for a day 1 wagon anyway, so I will keep my vote where it is, unless I get a good reason to not do so.
    Spending basically a full day getting called an idiot, and then having me getting upset over being called an idiot used as further proof that I'm an idiot, has left me feeling rather uncharitable. Still doesn't really justify my behavior though. I'm sorry. Especially for the previous version of my response to your case.

    I don't see what AVs point against MMG is. Her behavior so far seems fitting for your description and it is also something I might try, which is probably not a valid reason to clear her, but hey... It's day 1. If AV actually makes a case against her, I'll consider it, but honestly? I'm very unlikely to go there today. Similar to the Xum point above: if AV is about to die, I'd like her to explain her reasoning. The tiebreaker vote can be interesting, but this depends on the actual flips of the wagons. If AV flips wolf, I'd say there's a good chance of them being partners. If AV flips town, It's less meaningful. If Xum flips wolf, good look for MMG, otherwise a slight wolf lean from me. I can elaborate if necessary, but I'd rather see a flip related to this action before I really try to analyze it.
    MMG hit a longrunning scumsign of mine. It's not something specific to her, it's something I just tend to see wolves fall into - including myself frequently, even though I'm more aware of this particular mental trap than most. The easiest way for wolves to avoid it is to explain it (especially if they've not gamed much with me before and have to hunt through dozens of games to find me discussing it), so I don't really feel like explaining it. It's not a strong case, but I feel weird about every big wagon right now, so McGinty would be my chop of choice for the moment if it had a chance in hell. Upside from my perspective: based on what you're saying here, it seems MMG is more likely to get checked if I flip, regardless of how I flip (either people checking her because my vote "defended" her, or people trusting my scumsign even if I refuse to explain it), so I'm feeling okay about that.

    I'd definitely feel even better if I lived, Xum turned out to be scum, and then MMG/other wolves fall into the same scumslip and I can catch them all like D4 or something. May as well dream big, yknow?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also I guess I'm mostly open to questions. Can't promise answers, let alone useful ones, but still.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Xumtiil View Post
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  2. - Top - End - #242
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    Default Re: Candy-Coated Werewolf

    AV, answer this:

    Questions?
    "Trust bladescape, Shadow of Doubt,"




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  3. - Top - End - #243
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    Default Re: Candy-Coated Werewolf

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    AV, answer this:

    Questions?
    Vague, dodgy answer to a different question that looks like the one you asked if you squint.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Xumtiil View Post
    An Abattoir Vecna, if you will.
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  4. - Top - End - #244
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    BlueWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Candy-Coated Werewolf

    Present. May not be entirely functioning, but present. Looks like we're not in for too much EOD chaos, at least.

    Anyway, yeah, 3SC is probably just town.

    And I get the sense Persolus is... kind of sitting in the place that wolves I misclear normally do? I don't know if that makes any sense, but there's a couple of posts that have given me gut pings and my initial reason for townleaning him is not particularly strong. Will reevaluate after EOD.

    (Part of me is lowkey paranoid about the lack of resistance to the Xumtiil wagon but also he has been genuinely wolfy and I have a lack of better ideas.)

    I guess I'll make myself look at Rogan's AV case.
    I'm writing stuff, come and read it!
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  5. - Top - End - #245
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    Default Re: Candy-Coated Werewolf

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Vague, dodgy answer to a different question that looks like the one you asked if you squint.
    Acknowledgement, query about thoughts on players which are unrelated to the original question.
    "Trust bladescape, Shadow of Doubt,"




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  6. - Top - End - #246
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    Default Re: Candy-Coated Werewolf

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    Acknowledgement, query about thoughts on players which are unrelated to the original question.
    Outrage over and strong disagreement with the scumleans your question implies.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Xumtiil View Post
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  7. - Top - End - #247
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    Default Re: Candy-Coated Werewolf

    Also I'm tempted to just vote Persolus and let it all blow around.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Outrage over and strong disagreement with the scumleans your question implies.
    Placating comments with a hint of condescension.
    "Trust bladescape, Shadow of Doubt,"




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  8. - Top - End - #248
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    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Default Re: Candy-Coated Werewolf

    Unrelated interjection with a poor attempt at comedic timing.
    Last edited by Cazero; 2022-10-28 at 10:46 AM.
    Yes, I am slightly egomaniac. Why didn't you ask?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari
    Also this isn’t D&D, flaming the troll doesn’t help either.

  9. - Top - End - #249
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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: Candy-Coated Werewolf

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Spending basically a full day getting called an idiot, and then having me getting upset over being called an idiot used as further proof that I'm an idiot, has left me feeling rather uncharitable. Still doesn't really justify my behavior though. I'm sorry. Especially for the previous version of my response to your case.



    MMG hit a longrunning scumsign of mine. It's not something specific to her, it's something I just tend to see wolves fall into - including myself frequently, even though I'm more aware of this particular mental trap than most. The easiest way for wolves to avoid it is to explain it (especially if they've not gamed much with me before and have to hunt through dozens of games to find me discussing it), so I don't really feel like explaining it. It's not a strong case, but I feel weird about every big wagon right now, so McGinty would be my chop of choice for the moment if it had a chance in hell. Upside from my perspective: based on what you're saying here, it seems MMG is more likely to get checked if I flip, regardless of how I flip (either people checking her because my vote "defended" her, or people trusting my scumsign even if I refuse to explain it), so I'm feeling okay about that.

    I'd definitely feel even better if I lived, Xum turned out to be scum, and then MMG/other wolves fall into the same scumslip and I can catch them all like D4 or something. May as well dream big, yknow?
    First things first: Thanks for the excuse.

    I don't think you are an idiot and I didn't intend to imply this in any of my posts. I'm sorry if you still felt this way.
    To be clear: I was as confused as you were at the beginning of the thing. Only when Book said "You would get it unless you are a wolf" (or similar) It became clear to me and I got convinced that gac and book were town. I intended to defuse the situation a bit by telling you, yeah, they don't make things up. Obviously it backfired.

    I don't fully agree with your assesment that MMG would need to be investigated, no matter how you flip. But I can see your point.
    Since this post makes sense for me and (unless I missed a vote change / removal) you are still voting for yourself, despite being dangerously close to the lynch, I am willing to give you some credit.

    I guess I can try to vote MMG now, altough I have to admit being curious if this wagon gains any traction is a huge part of it. I'd like to wait till Snows chimes in, but since time's running, I won't do it.
    Spoiler: I'm a seer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    All the discussion of how weird the half-hour start is seems weirdly prescient, in retrospect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Can I use my prediction of the half an hour being used to set up Factional chats as proof I am the Seer?
    Quote Originally Posted by rogue_alchemist View Post
    only IRL, not as in game proof, as we all know that recruitment threads don't count for making IG decisions



  10. - Top - End - #250
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    BlueWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Candy-Coated Werewolf

    Okay, so correct me if I'm summarising your case badly, but you're saying:
    a) derailing discussion
    b) showing anger/frustration
    c) "it's NAI but I'm going to townread them anyway"
    d) claiming Wombat is never a wolf when he's been a wolf twice
    e) not really engaging with the Thing
    f) saying you don't know how to read Wombat when you do

    I've already mentioned why I think b) is NAI. c) is weird, yes, but I don't think it's wolfy weird. There are (I believe) valid reasons for town to say it.

    e) is pretty understandable for me, since I've also been trying to minimise my engagement with the Thing; I'll need to double-check the context.

    The rest relates to the Wombat discussion, which I didn't take in much the first time; since there's five minutes until EOD and you've already switched your vote I'll leave it for now and then if it's still relevant after the flip I can continue.

    And also: vague statement that I will look into the current conversation after EOD.
    I'm writing stuff, come and read it!
    Werewolf games won: 24
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    Games as town: 23.5
    Games as neutral: 5.5
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  11. - Top - End - #251
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    RedSorcererGirl

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    Default Re: Candy-Coated Werewolf

    Quote Originally Posted by Cazero View Post
    Unrelated interjection with a poor attempt at comedic timing.
    Salute and encouraging words for my team members' continued success.
    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Xumtiil gets to be the new person on my "person I can trust as vig" list. They are the only name on the list, currently.

  12. - Top - End - #252
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    Default Re: Candy-Coated Werewolf

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    First things first: Thanks for the excuse.

    I don't think you are an idiot and I didn't intend to imply this in any of my posts. I'm sorry if you still felt this way.
    To be clear: I was as confused as you were at the beginning of the thing. Only when Book said "You would get it unless you are a wolf" (or similar) It became clear to me and I got convinced that gac and book were town. I intended to defuse the situation a bit by telling you, yeah, they don't make things up. Obviously it backfired.

    I don't fully agree with your assesment that MMG would need to be investigated, no matter how you flip. But I can see your point.
    Since this post makes sense for me and (unless I missed a vote change / removal) you are still voting for yourself, despite being dangerously close to the lynch, I am willing to give you some credit.

    I guess I can try to vote MMG now, altough I have to admit being curious if this wagon gains any traction is a huge part of it. I'd like to wait till Snows chimes in, but since time's running, I won't do it.
    I guess since it doesn't look like my wagon is happening anyway, I'm willing to jump back onto MMG. I think the vote is something like 6-4-3 right now though? Haven't done a full count.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Xumtiil View Post
    An Abattoir Vecna, if you will.
    My Homebrew

  13. - Top - End - #253
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    RedKnightGirl

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    Default Re: Candy-Coated Werewolf

    End of Day 1

    Spoiler: Final Votecount
    Show

    Xumtiil 6: Snow, Hollowkatt, Bladescape, McGinty, Visor, Cazero, Cultist
    Gac 1: Cultist
    AV 3: Gac, Wombat, Murska
    Cuthalion 1: Persolus
    Wombat 1: Flat
    Cultist 1: Cuthalion
    McGinty 3: Xumtiil, Rogan, AV

    Reminder that if you don't strike through your old vote, I don't count the new one
    Let me know if you spot any mistakes.



    "Wait, did you say "salty"?" somebody asked.
    "Yeah, what of it?"
    "Well it reminded me. Candy is supposed to be sweet, right? Not salty?"
    "Ugh, yeah, who could ever like that?"


    All turned towards the salty licorice, who immediately got defensive. "I will have you know that I'm the narrator's very favourite!" they pointed out. "Why don't you consider the quieter ones who are hiding at the bottom of the cauldron? Or the ones who are all colourful wrappers but no actual content?"

    Of course nobody listened to their feeble protests, all happy that they were not the ones about to be devoured. Or as it turned out, partially chewed and then spat right back out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Xumtiil
    You are: a regular wolf.
    You win when your team can no longer be outvoted. At night, you can carry the factional kill for your team.
    Day 2 starts in 24 hours, please remember to submit your night actions.
    Last edited by Taffimai; 2022-10-28 at 11:18 AM.
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  14. - Top - End - #254
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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: Candy-Coated Werewolf

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowblaze View Post
    Okay, so correct me if I'm summarising your case badly, but you're saying:
    a) derailing discussion
    b) showing anger/frustration
    c) "it's NAI but I'm going to townread them anyway"
    d) claiming Wombat is never a wolf when he's been a wolf twice
    e) not really engaging with the Thing
    f) saying you don't know how to read Wombat when you do

    I've already mentioned why I think b) is NAI. c) is weird, yes, but I don't think it's wolfy weird. There are (I believe) valid reasons for town to say it.

    e) is pretty understandable for me, since I've also been trying to minimise my engagement with the Thing; I'll need to double-check the context.

    The rest relates to the Wombat discussion, which I didn't take in much the first time; since there's five minutes until EOD and you've already switched your vote I'll leave it for now and then if it's still relevant after the flip I can continue.

    And also: vague statement that I will look into the current conversation after EOD.
    The showing anger / frustration is part of the context instead of the case. It's understandable regardless of alignment, altough I don't like it was directed at me that much, since I don't think I have handled her unfair.
    Point c was explained by AV, so yeah. Not wolfy.
    Point d is a bit more complex. She herself pulled out the stats to show those two wolf games, so it's not a contradiction. It's more about point a, derailing, and f, throwing mud at me.
    In regards to the engagement of the thing, you have publicly and deliberatly stated you don't want to engage with it. That's fine. And a deliberate desicion, which I didn't see from AV. Hence she felt like derailing, while you don't.

    Now, in light of the flip on Xum (good job) AV definitly stopped being a priorty target for me. It is possible we had w/w wagons, but I don't think it's likely. I will need to check the interaction between them, but yeah.
    Spoiler: I'm a seer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    All the discussion of how weird the half-hour start is seems weirdly prescient, in retrospect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Can I use my prediction of the half an hour being used to set up Factional chats as proof I am the Seer?
    Quote Originally Posted by rogue_alchemist View Post
    only IRL, not as in game proof, as we all know that recruitment threads don't count for making IG decisions



  15. - Top - End - #255
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    Default Re: Candy-Coated Werewolf

    FoS on Murska.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Xumtiil View Post
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    My Homebrew

  16. - Top - End - #256
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    Default Re: Candy-Coated Werewolf

    I'm wary to say it but that miiiiiight make Snow town.

    Unless she bussed.

    Again.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also I probably am dead tonight so I'll try to post a legacy.
    "Trust bladescape, Shadow of Doubt,"




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  17. - Top - End - #257
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Candy-Coated Werewolf

    This was an interesting time to wake up.

    What I was trying to get at before I remembered that sleep is healthy was that all the people who voted for Xumtiil at that point were all people who I thought were, if not outright town, then town-leaning. (i.e. Bladescape, Hollowkat, Snowblaze). Obviously this doesn't mean much as I'm saying it after the fact, so feel free to wolf-read me from this.


    Quote Originally Posted by flat_footed View Post
    BW until this is cleared up. Hope you don't mind me going with a fun, cherry flavored color.
    Flat_Footed:
    one of the few people to have posted less than me, and only one thing of content: he switched to BW as soon as the existence of the Thing was pointed out, but before it was explained. For Town!Flat, that could be general suspicion towards trick plays (or whatever it would be called) coupled with not noticing the precise wording of the wincon - again, something both I and AV have stated is doable. For Wolf!Flat, this is not getting the Thing, but assuming it was something that wasn't explicit enough to clear BW in the eyes of any Town.
    Then he proceeded to post a sports joke, and not post anything further.
    So three possibilities:
    If FF is town, then he was literally off the internet the entire time from the sports joke to now. Given the amount of references to the Thing, it's unlikely that, even given the wall of posts, he wouldn't have picked up on the fact that things had "cleared up" and at least verified that he was content with his vote.
    On the other hand, if FF is wolf, then even if he was truly busy, he has no reason to change his vote on BW, and no excuse/justification results in less to condemn him with from those who trust BW.
    So I don't know how normal it is for FF to completely disappear? If it is, then townlean, but otherwise, null to wolf.

  18. - Top - End - #258
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    Default Re: Candy-Coated Werewolf

    I'm still open to maybe answering questions, if people have actual questions to ask.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Xumtiil View Post
    An Abattoir Vecna, if you will.
    My Homebrew

  19. - Top - End - #259
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Candy-Coated Werewolf

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    I'm still open to maybe answering questions, if people have actual questions to ask.
    1) What is the meaning of life?

    2) Are you having fun this game?

    3) For your wolf reads, what's your strongest argument in favour of them being town? For your town reads, what's your strongest argument in favour of them being wolf?
    [if that's a question you think best answered after Night ends, then totally fair]

  20. - Top - End - #260
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    Default Re: Candy-Coated Werewolf

    Quote Originally Posted by Persolus View Post
    1) What is the meaning of life?

    2) Are you having fun this game?

    3) For your wolf reads, what's your strongest argument in favour of them being town? For your town reads, what's your strongest argument in favour of them being wolf?
    [if that's a question you think best answered after Night ends, then totally fair]
    1) No comment.

    2) No comment.

    3) MMG triggering my scumread might be coincidence. It's possible that The Thing was an enormous shot in the dark gambit that 100% paid off and not a single one of them can actually be trusted.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Xumtiil View Post
    An Abattoir Vecna, if you will.
    My Homebrew

  21. - Top - End - #261
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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: Candy-Coated Werewolf

    Quote Originally Posted by Persolus View Post
    So I don't know how normal it is for FF to completely disappear? If it is, then townlean, but otherwise, null to wolf.
    Wolf!Flat is willing to disappear in public while staying active in wolf thread.
    Wolf!Flat also happened to be busy and offline while we were partnered. (He died this game, in a similar situation as this)

    I actually don't have a very good grasp at town!flat, so maybe someone else wants to go over this parts. But I think, it's not uncommon for town!Flat being silent either. I'm just not sure about the details. Being busy is certainly possible. Not being busy while keeping the vote? No idea.

    Also, disclaimer: I've got a habit of trying to get flat killed. (Which I think is true regardless of my own alignment)

    Also also: Night talk in a low power game is usually helping the wolves more than town, cause they get a better grasp at possible misslynches or priority night kill targets. So it's better to be careful. A good idea is to prepare a legacy, a post containing your thoughts and reads which should be posted shortly before end of night. This will prevent the wolves from using this info in the night while denying them a chance to silence a good player completely.

    It might also be a good idea to ask questions while not expecting answers during the night (these answers might be part of the legacy).

    I probably would have kept my insight about flat for myself a bit for the stated reasons, but since they basically boil down to "as far as I know, it's NAI) I don't think I'm helping them very much.
    Spoiler: I'm a seer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    All the discussion of how weird the half-hour start is seems weirdly prescient, in retrospect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Can I use my prediction of the half an hour being used to set up Factional chats as proof I am the Seer?
    Quote Originally Posted by rogue_alchemist View Post
    only IRL, not as in game proof, as we all know that recruitment threads don't count for making IG decisions



  22. - Top - End - #262
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    BlueWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Candy-Coated Werewolf

    Hey, nice, I was right!

    I think that means bladescape and hollowkatt are both town (shut up, tinfoil voice). Who else voted for Xumtiil... Visor, Mrs McGinty, Cazero and 3SC tried to. There's a decent chance of a busser in that group, though I can't say which beyond "probably not 3SC".

    AV... I think AV is town, the way they played that does not remotely fit my idea of what wolf!AV would do in that situation. Have reached reasonable confidence in town!Rogan independently of the Thing.

    So leaving gac and Wombat out gives a POE of, what, Visor/MMG/Cazero/Persolus/Murska/the fact I managed to forget Cuthalion and flat_footed exists probably means they should be in there.

    That's seven townreads, POE of seven, plus one me and one dead wolf makes sixteen. I have basically no idea what rankings within that POE look like atm.

    Going to do very little for the rest of the phase since I have RL stuff I should be focusing on, but will take questions if people have them.

    (Also, yes, I am blatantly ignoring Rogan's advice.)
    I'm writing stuff, come and read it!
    Werewolf games won: 24
    Werewolf games lost: 14
    Games as town: 23.5
    Games as neutral: 5.5
    Games as wolf: 9
    Games narrated: 1
    Deaths: 17

    Extended Signature

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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: Candy-Coated Werewolf

    Oh, right. Snows list reminded me of something which probably won't hurt at night.
    Taffi told us a percentage range for the number of wolves, so we should be able to calculate their maximum and minimum numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Recruitment
    20-25% of the players will be wolves
    16 players at game start, so 16*20% = 3,2 wolves minimum
    16*25% = 4,0 maximum

    With one wolf down, we are looking at 2 guaranteed, 3 maximum at this moment.
    If you would force me to take a bet, I'd say 3 wolves left.

    Yeah, not terribly helpful but I can't stop myself.

    (As Snow demonstrated, not listening to my advice is fine. It's an advice based on what I believe to be generally true, not some kind of universal truth which mustn't be violated.)
    Spoiler: I'm a seer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    All the discussion of how weird the half-hour start is seems weirdly prescient, in retrospect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Can I use my prediction of the half an hour being used to set up Factional chats as proof I am the Seer?
    Quote Originally Posted by rogue_alchemist View Post
    only IRL, not as in game proof, as we all know that recruitment threads don't count for making IG decisions



  24. - Top - End - #264
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    DwarfFighterGirl

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    Default Re: Candy-Coated Werewolf

    all

    10charwhenyourehotyourehot

  25. - Top - End - #265
    Titan in the Playground
     
    3SecondCultist's Avatar

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    Default Re: Candy-Coated Werewolf

    FoS on Cazero.

    I will wait until D2 to actually elaborate on this. Despite disagreeing with him on at least one issue of note this game, I'm taking Rogan's advice to shut up and not give the wolves any more info than they already have.
    Spoiler: Stuff I'm Working On
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    An ongoing web serial about politics, vengeance, and miniature lizards. Go check it out!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeno Desaqqara View Post
    You divine bastard.

    "Life is to be lived, not controlled; and humanity is won by continuing to play in the face of certain defeat."

  26. - Top - End - #266
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    bladescape's Avatar

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    Default Re: Candy-Coated Werewolf

    Quote Originally Posted by 3SecondCultist View Post
    FoS on Cazero.

    I will wait until D2 to actually elaborate on this. Despite disagreeing with him on at least one issue of note this game, I'm taking Rogan's advice to shut up and not give the wolves any more info than they already have.
    Not the wolf I have pinned for execution tomorrow but I am curious.
    "Trust bladescape, Shadow of Doubt,"




    My almighty and all knowing extended Signature lies HERE! Now includes awesome quotes!

  27. - Top - End - #267
    Titan in the Playground
     
    3SecondCultist's Avatar

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    Default Re: Candy-Coated Werewolf

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    Not the wolf I have pinned for execution tomorrow but I am curious.
    I think I know who you have in your sights, but I will be presenting an alternative case.
    Spoiler: Stuff I'm Working On
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    Small Justice


    An ongoing web serial about politics, vengeance, and miniature lizards. Go check it out!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeno Desaqqara View Post
    You divine bastard.

    "Life is to be lived, not controlled; and humanity is won by continuing to play in the face of certain defeat."

  28. - Top - End - #268
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    bladescape's Avatar

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    Default Re: Candy-Coated Werewolf

    Quote Originally Posted by 3SecondCultist View Post
    I think I know who you have in your sights, but I will be presenting an alternative case.
    I entertain free guesses as to my target
    "Trust bladescape, Shadow of Doubt,"




    My almighty and all knowing extended Signature lies HERE! Now includes awesome quotes!

  29. - Top - End - #269
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    Visor's Avatar

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    Default Re: Candy-Coated Werewolf

    mcginty goat

    lock villa leggo

  30. - Top - End - #270
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    bladescape's Avatar

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    Default Re: Candy-Coated Werewolf

    Quote Originally Posted by Visor View Post
    mcginty goat

    lock villa leggo
    Stop trying to pocket mcginty, visor.
    "Trust bladescape, Shadow of Doubt,"




    My almighty and all knowing extended Signature lies HERE! Now includes awesome quotes!

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