If you rolled only 13s during character creation, what would you play?

[Tanarii]

One of the awkward things about how D&D handles ability scores is that there's a mismatch between how the game presents ability scores, and how those ability scores work mechanically. As far as the game is concerned, a 14 in your your main, "my class wants me to be good at this" ability score is mediocre, with a 16+ being "good". What the character wouldn't have are any bad attributes.

A 15% bonus to related ability checks is very nice if you're making enough of them, but yeah it's nice to have as many class features or attacks or defense triggering off them as possible. That's the biggest bang for the buck.

Which is why I like the idea of a Valor Bard the most. Int and Wis have plenty of skills you can focus your 'pick any skill' and expertise on, Str can be used to attack, Dex is for Medium armor def and (with JoaT) good Init and passable Stealth, Con to keep up in melee, and Cha to cast.

Normally a Valor Bard has to dump Int and Wis, so they're more likely to be focusing on skills like Athletics, Stealth and Cha skills. Maybe Perception to shore up a weak spot by mitigating how often they're surprised.

[Unoriginal]

One of the awkward things about how D&D handles ability scores is that there's a mismatch between how the game presents ability scores, and how those ability scores work mechanically. As far as the game is concerned, a 14 in your your main, "my class wants me to be good at this" ability score is mediocre, with a 16+ being "good". What the character wouldn't have are any bad attributes.

JellyPooga puts it best:

I think it's worth pointing out that even a touch above average is far better than merely mediocre.

The term "mediocre", at best, represents average and is usually used as somewhat lower than that. "Mediocre" is...substandard, boring, uninteresting, second rate, even inferior. To be even a little over average in every aspect is, by definition to be much more than merely mediocre.

14 in all stats at lvl 1 is not mediocre by any stretch of the definition. +2 to all non-proficiency checks and saves at lvl 1 is good. +4 to all ability checks/saves/attack rolls at lvl 1 is good. +2 to HPs is good.

Heck, 13 in all stats before racial modifiers is still better than mediocre, if you go for something else than non-Variant Human.

The expectation of having your primary ability score at 16 at level 1 char-gen is often misplaced in my opinion

I feel like expecting to have one stat at 16 isn't outlandish (as it's not hard to do with both standard array and point buy), but thinking that you *need* one stat at 16 at lvl 1 for the PC to be good/worthwhile/above mediocre is misplaced.

[Mastikator]

One of the pains of having 14 in your primary attribute is that it will take 3 ASIs to max it out. And while 14 at level 1 isn't all that bad, having 14 or even 16 at level 12 IS very bad actually. While you are spending all your ASIs to cap out your primary attribute and then waiting for level 16 for your very first feat, the other players will have been playing with feats for the last 10 levels.

Yes, you will be slightly good at things that you are not expected to be, but most of the important tasks will be covered by the other players who you can expect to be actually good at their thing.
You on the other hand will not be good at your thing, you will be the second or third best at everything. Which is a nice way to say useless.

If I was playing a wizard with 14 in every attribute, and I could pick up either a belt of storm giant or a headband of intellect, I'd go for the intellect. (this is assuming only I can use either item). Having high or above average stats in things you don't use is of very little value.

The only thing you can be mediocre at is support, not good at support. You'd need 16 in your primary ability score to be good at support. Anything else you would be bad at.

[Gignere]

One of the pains of having 14 in your primary attribute is that it will take 3 ASIs to max it out. And while 14 at level 1 isn't all that bad, having 14 or even 16 at level 12 IS very bad actually. While you are spending all your ASIs to cap out your primary attribute and then waiting for level 16 for your very first feat, the other players will have been playing with feats for the last 10 levels.

Yes, you will be slightly good at things that you are not expected to be, but most of the important tasks will be covered by the other players who you can expect to be actually good at their thing.
You on the other hand will not be good at your thing, you will be the second or third best at everything. Which is a nice way to say useless.

If I was playing a wizard with 14 in every attribute, and I could pick up either a belt of storm giant or a headband of intellect, I'd go for the intellect. (this is assuming only I can use either item). Having high or above average stats in things you don't use is of very little value.

The only thing you can be mediocre at is support, not good at support. You'd need 16 in your primary ability score to be good at support. Anything else you would be bad at.

Yes if you pick a primary caster and use save or sucks primarily, this stat spread is not good. However, you basically qualify for every multi class combination in the game, the ability of 13 in everything screams that you should be taking advantage of such a spread.

I suggested a half elf war wizard / watchers Paladin with elven accuracy. This will allow you to start with a 15 in dex, and bump it to 16 by level 4 using elven accuracy. Grab defense fighting style at 2 and swap to blind fighting at 4.

I will go war wizard next, getting shield / absorb elements / fog cloud. Relying on Booming blade / smite to keep my damage competitive to the multi attacking fighters. Stay here for 3 - 4 levels depending on whether you prioritize ASI or attacking twice. I’m grabbing 3 wizard to pick up Shadowblade and basically now you have two ways to nearly have perma triple advantage on attack rolls against just about anything.

Now you can finish the last 3 levels of Paladin to unlock 2 auras.

With elven accuracy and a +3 in primary stat you are hitting as easily as someone maxing their attack stat and a +3 weapon, except for truly exceptional AC like 27+ AC.

Your initiative is going to be great and a +2/3 to all saves, I’d put an ASI to charisma eventually to all saves is great and this is on top of the character having at least a +1 on all saves.

So in all you just need to optimize a build that can take advantage of as many different +1s and 2s as possible and not optimize as if you were playing a standard array.

[animorte]

I think the definition of mediocre in this specific instance is directly relative to the min-maxer strictly because it is mediocre in regard to not being naturally within reach of any specialty, literally being the definition of master-of-none.

But then different characters in the same party (everyone min-maxed) with varying specialties in ability scores will still have this exact effect because they’ll each be mediocre in regard to one another in different ways.

Bonus: The min-maxer will be especially mediocre to the 13 spread strictly because of the min. So it all balances out. Hence all 13s is very reliable.

[sambojin]

I'd probably go a old-Firbolg Land (plains) Druid, with +2 in Wis and +1 in Dex. Feytouched (with Gift of Alacrity if I could use it, or Bless otherwise. Or Hex) at 4th, Resilient (Con) at 8th.

That'll give me 13/14/14/13/16/13 stats by 8th, plenty of magic between racials/ natural recovery/ Feytouched and land spells, and enough stats to make it work pretty well. Decent concentration saves, and maybe ok'ish init. Wildshape can carry me if necessary until lvl5 otherwise (even little wildshape is amazing as a 2/sr. Warhorsies are grand, so are familiars). Guidance/ Enhance Ability/ PwT for skills.

Be a pretty fun stealthy shapechanger buffer character to play I reckon, with resources both short and long coming out the wazoo. You're not really missing anything you need, or even that you'd normally have, except the odd +1 here or there. I'd be happy with those stats if I rolled/ pb'd them. (You've even got dumb stuff like 390lbs of lift/carry, and always-on speak-to-animals. And never forget Wolf Spider Spiderclimb just wrecks a lot of things/ encounters, even at CR1/4. Lots of fun to be had here with this character.)

[Witty Username]

Human paladin 6-8, wizard rest, probably watcher into abjurer or conjurer.
One of my favorite character concepts in the crpgs was the paladin of Mystra, able to multiclass freely between paladin and wizard. 5e soradin can work for that but the thematics of sorcerer doesn't fit the concept well.
All 14s isn't great but it does hit all the multiclass requirements, and wizard has alot of spells that don't need intelligence to be effective.

That being said all 14s would work for just about all my regular thought patterns. Wizards always work alright, 14 is close enough for alot of martial classes.

If rogue I might try for a 15-16 dex with custom lineage or something.

I think the only one I would not consider is monk, the dex and wis requirements are too high for my purposes.

[Amechra]

I think the only one I would not consider is monk, the dex and wis requirements are too high for my purposes.

This might literally be one of the only times where it's worth it to play an armored monk, since the difference between Unarmored Defense and wearing armor is so pronounced. Like, normally it sucks because you're effectively trading a big speed boost and a lot of the Monk's baseline damage for roughly +2 AC, but here it's more like +4 AC, which makes the cost way less steep.

I'm thinking that you could pick up Tavern Brawler through VHuman, dip into Barbarian, and play a Strength Monk. Flurry of Blows + Reckless Attack + Rage is pretty fearsome, after all. For the subclass, I'd probably go Mercy — both for the irony and because your Hands of Healing are doubly effective while you're raging.

EDIT: I feel like it'd actually be pretty fun to play in a game where everyone started with average stats like this and stats had a lower overall cap. You start with all 13s, stats cap at 18, go.

You'd probably need to houserule a +1 to AC for the Monk to make Unarmored Defense not a complete trap, but I'm pretty sure that everything else would work just fine.

[sambojin]

Meh, it's one of the times where it's hilarious to play a Firbolg Land Druid. Always been powerful, now it's just a "yeah, stats don't mean that much, I have all the magic. And wildshape for some reason too" to show just how powerful that is. On any given length of adventuring day, in any style of campaign. Moon is great, so are Wizards of any completely-generic but-barely-flavoured style(?), but yeah, wildshape+ s/r racials+ free spell preps + feats are sweet. And arcane+ recovery (the druid list is just so much better to use slot recovery on, early levels 2-11 or so).

Not quite shrodinger's druid, but wow do you have a lot of basic spells prepared and slots to use them with. 13's across the board? Kinda irrelevant. Still works insanely well for what it does, with several land types. You couldn't quite do it with 8's across the board, except, you probably could on the build above. Just choose your spells and shapes.

((It's not exactly a lvl8-10 capstone, but being a Haste'd Giant Eagle at lvl8 is fun, despite its 26HP. And it's right before you get to summon a dragon to ride at lvl9, which is fun too. Air grapple-splats, or just an extra attack and a touch of +AC. Aside from other stuff, because Haste is better on other people, and is a "bad" spell anyway, but you can wildshape. It's pretty funny on you too. You can out-run a dragon for 8 or so turns if you have to. Haste'd Giant Rock/topus is pretty funny too, for real HP and 15' lockdownish and AoO on the turn you wildshape, but even a Dire Wolf form will do some good work. Or a Haste'd Bear. 2x/3x melee'ish attacks with some riders on them at lvl8 is ok'ish for a full caster, with it being simply inherent to the subclass/land type. It's not like you don't have better spells, just not many classes have these options available to them, especially without trying))

(((Just remember, as a druid, having some stupid-druid-trick like being a super-sonic eagle being knocked out of you, never precludes the next trick happening next round. Oh noes! Now you/ someone else is polymorphed into a Giant Ape! Or goldfish! Or something else amusing. Seriously, you'll be fine, you've got enough slots and preps and healing to carry this as a Land Druid)))

[Lokishade]

Standard Human Barbarian.

The way Barbs are usually optimized, they get everything in the physical scores. Usually, the 16 goes to strength, and the two 14s go to dex and con, leaving the mental stats in the dust. And we'd have it no other way. The Barbarian is not just a martial, but THE strength-based martial.

But because of the unavoidable consequences of translating everything in game mechanics, we've been saddled with a killing machine that somehow can't strike fear into his enemies.

With cha 14, you finally get to play with the Barbarian's physique. You're big, you're strong, your rage is dangerous. Finally, most of your enemies crap their pants when they hear about you. But you're not just about blood and gore. You're also attractive. Why would the ladies settle for the scrawny Bard when they can nestle in the safety of your big strong arms?

With wis 14, it's like an ASI went there for free. Perception, Insight. Nobody is pulling a fast one on you. Handle Animal, Survival. You're competent in the wilds, your home. And with Medicine, you can tend to wounds.

With int 14, it's a welcome reversal of the dumb Barbarian archetype. You're smart. You're educated. You can read the warnings in that ancient ruined temple, of which you know the purpose and what went wrong with it. You also know which herbs to mix for that antidote. And your searches are thorough.

With 14s across the board, I'd play a Normal Human, Unlocked Mind Barbarian.

[Tanarii]

With 14s across the board, I'd play a Normal Human, Unlocked Mind Barbarian.

Conan the Librarian.

Sage background for Arcana and History. Nature from Barbarian skill list. Maybe Survival too if you're a hands on type who got away from the books occasionally.

[Mage keeper]

Mountain dwarf paladin6/hexblade sou you have 15 in charisma and 15 in constitution, Witch charisma for save hit roll and damages, increase charisma to 20 and you're fine

[Keravath]

Lots of decent options actually.

Custom Lineage with +2 stat and half feat gives 16 primary and 13's for the rest.
Any race using +1,+1,+1 gives 14,14,14,13,13,13 which is decent though 18 primary stat at level 8 with ASIs
Standard human is 14 across the board and would play well almost any character. 18 primary stat at level 8.
Mountain dwarf would have 2x16, 4x13 at level 4 with an ASI spent on two stats
Half elf would have 15, 2x14, 3x13 at level 1 then either 16 with a half feat or 16 and another 14 with a split ASI.

Standard human rogue or bard would work well with +2 to all skills across the board.

The only "issue" with any of these is the 4 level delay in primary stat which doesn't have much impact on the game but will bug folks who like to focus on optimizing where 20 stat seems to be a strong motivator.

P.S. The +1 has a bigger impact the harder it is to hit your opponents - but there are very few opponents with a high enough AC to make a big difference in actual play.

e.g. Tier 1 - +5 to hit with a 16, +4 with a 14. Against an AC20 target this translates to rolling 15+ vs 16+ which is a difference of 30% to hit vs 25%. A 16.7% drop in to hit chance (5/30). If the target AC was 23 (creature with 18AC and shield spell) the difference is 18+ vs 19+ or 15% vs 10% (which is either a 33% drop or 50% increase in hit probability depending on which way you look at it) BUT an AC23 target should almost never appear in tier 1, even a 20 would be rare, against a typical AC15, the difference is 10+ vs 11+ or 55% vs 50% or less than a 1/10 decrease in hit chance - not that significant.

TL;DR High numbers are nice but they aren't necessary (depending on your personal preference).

[PallyBass]

Conan the Librarian.

Sage background for Arcana and History. Nature from Barbarian skill list. Maybe Survival too if you're a hands on type who got away from the books occasionally.

Omg I love/hate the pun so much 10/10 :)

[Amechra]

I always preferred the cartoon to the live-action remake.

[Mad Puppy]

I'd probably build Yoda....

Goblin Drunken master Monk6 / GOO-Blade-Pact Warlock6
Custom lineage +2 Dex, +1 Cha
Feats: Observant (+1Wis) Telekinetic (+1 Cha)
Invocations: Repelling Blast, Improved Pact Weapon, Eldritch Smite

Spells: Booming Blade, Eldritch Blast, Mind Sliver, Mage Hand(Telekinesis), Charm Person, Hex, Detect Thoughts, Mirror image, Clairvoyance, Counterspell, Fly.

The Blade Pact weapon is obviously a Light Saber.
Drunken master for the acrobatics in fighting, GOO is the Force

[DracoKnight]

Hi everyone

If you rolled ability scores for character creation and you only rolled 13s for all ability scores, what would you play in this case (only from an optimization perspective without knowing the other player characters).

We had a case with 14, 13, 13, 13, 13, 12 and this kinda made me think what one could do if one had only 13s (cleaner concept).

The upside would probably be that you could freely multiclass, the downside that you wouldn't have a single 16 or higher at lvl 1 and would need to take lots of half feats I assume...

Cheers

Wasp

So this answer isn’t hypothetical, I actually played this character. They were my…third character, ever? Played in Tyranny of Dragons!

So, like you proposed, I rolled all 13s. I played… a Human. Not a Variant Human. Just… plain… vanilla human. And then I played a Rogue. He was kind of a jack of all trades. Born on the street, and taken in by a local guild. He was better than average at everything he tried his hand at, but not particularly great at anything.

At 3rd level, I took the Arcane Trickster subclass. My spells were Disguise Self, Silent Image, and Find Familiar. My cantrips were Mage Hand, Prestidigitation, and Booming Blade.

At 4th level I took the Lucky feat. And then at 8th, 10th, and 12th level I bumped DEX.

Over that span of levels I also added the following spells: Alter Self, Blur, Charm Person, Invisibility, Minor Illusion, Mirror Image, and Nystul's Magic Aura; for the most part avoiding spells that required my INT.

At 13 I added Major Image. At 14, Haste. Most of my turns under Haste consisted of Ready Attack for X, Haste Attack, getting Sneak Attack on both attacks.

16th level I added Hypnotic Pattern and bumped my INT by 2.

Darvin Greycastle was a very fun character in play, and made me fall in love with the Arcane Trickster. An absolute blast to play and an early lesson for me that even if you don’t roll insane stats, the character you’re playing can be fun! Because of his middling stats, Darvin really had kinda this arc of being an everyman who stepped up to the plate and grew into the role of a hero in the face of seemingly insurmountable odds. “I’m just a kid from Baldur’s Gate.” But in the end, this humble thief from the slums, who struggled to learn magic from a spellbook he stole, stood against the dragon queen with his compatriots and won.

Starting stats are just that… we have ASIs for a reason! ^_^

[Corran]

Hi everyone

If you rolled ability scores for character creation and you only rolled 13s for all ability scores, what would you play in this case (only from an optimization perspective without knowing the other player characters).

We had a case with 14, 13, 13, 13, 13, 12 and this kinda made me think what one could do if one had only 13s (cleaner concept).

The upside would probably be that you could freely multiclass, the downside that you wouldn't have a single 16 or higher at lvl 1 and would need to take lots of half feats I assume...

Cheers

Wasp

Something that would allow me many skill proficiencies, so rogue or bard (maybe ranger). Bards depend on a high CHA more than rogues depend on a high DEX imo, so I am leaning towards a rogue.

[Mastikator]

Something that would allow me many skill proficiencies, so rogue or bard (maybe ranger). Bards depend on a high CHA more than rogues depend on a high DEX imo, so I am leaning towards a rogue.

Rogue, then multiclass into ranger, then into bard, then into knowledge cleric. Then pick up lore bard and then scout rogue.

[2D8HP]

I’d play a standard human Champion Fighter and/or a Swashbuckler or Thief Rogue, which is frankly what I usually play when I don’t play a Wood Elf, half-elf, or half-orc.

I think it would be fun.

[Willowhelm]

I’d play a variation of this probably.

https://youtu.be/H2VcTQH2izY

Character sheet:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/characters/22587635/jzFcIk

The basic idea is that rather than getting proficiency in all the skills they’re aiming for expertise in all of them. In this particular instance treantmonk ends up with at least +10 in every skill.

I’ve done it before. Having expertise in basically everything makes for a lot of fun. There’s none of the back and forth as you and the dm negotiate what skill and how you’re doing something. You just say what you’re doing and you don’t care what they ask for because you’re good at all of them. Expertise makes any particular ability score less relevant.

As long as you boost something to be vaguely useful in combat, it is a good time and doesn’t hold the party back.

[RitDrachen]

For once take normal Human 100% round out all your stats to a 14. From there i'm not sure I like the versatility of Warlocks and Sorcerers so probably one of those. Hexblade? Beyond first level definitely SorLocke