OOTS #1270 - The Discussion Thread

[Fyraltari]

Is Rich left-handed? That's the first thing that came to mind for me.

Doesn't seem like it.

Also, as a left-hander, I appreciate the representation.

Same. One more reason to like Minrah.

[KorvinStarmast]

"Kind of overdid it on the bat flip" is most likely a reference to Phillies' player Rhys Hoskins spiking the bat (seen here at 0:04), which has become something of a meme in baseball circles, apparently?

Ah, since I didn't watch any of the games I missed a chance to get that ref. Thanks!

[Metastachydium]

Also, as a left-hander, I appreciate the representation.

Have some left-handed modrons, then!

Same. One more reason to like Minrah.

Minrah is left-handed? I checked a couple of fight scenes and it seems the hand he fights with varies quite a lot (incidentally, the same holds true for Elan as well). A character consistently shown to be left-handed would be Not-Thad.

[Peelee]

I didn't even think of that as a reference, possibly because baseball players have a higher percentage of left-handers among them than the general population does.

That clearly is due to sinister reasons.

[Fyraltari]

Minrah is left-handed? I checked a couple of fight scenes and it seems the hand he fights with varies quite a lot (incidentally, the same holds true for Elan as well). A character consistently shown to be left-handed would be Not-Thad.

I'm not sure, I think I may just have noticed her holding her hammer left-handed a couple times. But I suspect that the truth is that characters often just hold stuff in the hand that is most convenient for panel composition with little regards to laterality, even in combat. It's not hard to find Roy holding his sword left-handed too, despite his back-scabbard thing being set up for the right-hand.

With that said, I feel like Minrah uses her left more than other characters do, and lefties tend to use their right more than righties use their left in the real world.

[Ruck]

That clearly is due to sinister reasons.

I did take three years of high school Latin, which proved surprisingly useful in yesterday's Learned League.

With that said, I feel like Minrah uses her left more than other characters do, and lefties tend to use their right more than righties use their left in the real world.

This is one place I feel particularly marginalized, since I'm a lefty who can do hardly anything with my right hand. Nothing is a bummer like going to your "left-handed" friend's house to jam and they all have right-handed guitars.

[Fyraltari]

This is one place I feel particularly marginalized, since I'm a lefty who can do hardly anything with my right hand. Nothing is a bummer like going to your "left-handed" friend's house to jam and they all have right-handed guitars.

Ah, that sucks.

[Carl]

As i recall the oath was that they wouldn't interfere with each others gates. There's nothing in there about not having any contact with each other as far as i remember, (i really should go check the strip but i'm being quick). Also Giriad was the one with the big strong personal beef with Soon, plus he was a paranoiac extraordinaire. It makes sense he'd have little to do with anyone, the fact that he was on good enough terms with Serenni to give hr the real coordinates is interesting in that context, but thats about it.

So Dorukan and Lirrian continuing their relationship isn't against the terms they agreed, for that matter they could in theory of contacted and talked with each other, but everyone except Lirrian and Serenni seem to have parted on such bad terms, (Serenni was the one who suggested the split, and Lirrian stayed out of the arguing as best we can tell, classic true neutral right there), that it's not surprising they had little contact.

Now Serenni poaching Dorukan's monsters, thats absolutely interfering. But it's also decades after the fact, hard to know what's changed and what's stayed the same on her end.

I agree though there's more to the story with the scribblers, we just don't know what it is.

[hamishspence]

As i recall the oath was that they wouldn't interfere with each others gates. There's nothing in there about not having any contact with each other as far as i remember, (i really should go check the strip but i'm being quick).

The "no 'just checking in' visits" line, and "We leave here today and that's it, we're done with each other" lines:

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html

do suggest that not seeing each other was part of the agreement.

That's why the letter Lirian reads in Start of Darkness, from Dorukan, laments that the agreement was made (though it's also made clear in Don't Split The Party, that the two still had visits despite it.

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html

[brian 333]

As i recall the oath was that they wouldn't interfere with each others gates. There's nothing in there about not having any contact with each other as far as i remember, (i really should go check the strip but i'm being quick). Also Giriad was the one with the big strong personal beef with Soon, plus he was a paranoiac extraordinaire. It makes sense he'd have little to do with anyone, the fact that he was on good enough terms with Serenni to give hr the real coordinates is interesting in that context, but thats about it.

So Dorukan and Lirrian continuing their relationship isn't against the terms they agreed, for that matter they could in theory of contacted and talked with each other, but everyone except Lirrian and Serenni seem to have parted on such bad terms, (Serenni was the one who suggested the split, and Lirrian stayed out of the arguing as best we can tell, classic true neutral right there), that it's not surprising they had little contact.

Now Serenni poaching Dorukan's monsters, thats absolutely interfering. But it's also decades after the fact, hard to know what's changed and what's stayed the same on her end.

I agree though there's more to the story with the scribblers, we just don't know what it is.

Serini:
And we agree, no interference in the other four gates. We'll set up some kind of monitoring devinition to tell if someone else's gate is broken, but that's it.
No spying, no "just checking in visits," no nothing.
We leave here today and that's it. We're done with each other.

[Psyren]

For some reason it always makes me anxious when a Main plot could have been solved easily in retrospect.

I mean, could it? The Order from back then would have been as likely to run screaming for the hills if they learned about the plot back then, as they would to become the heroes the world needed. They explored this concept in miniature previously.

[Grey Watcher]

In Dorukons dungeon, recruiting monsters?

Could it be?

The long awaited return?

Getting hype for Trigak(!!)

I bet he'd (they'd?) look badass in the new art style.

Concrete evidence that Soon was the only one who gave half a deep-fried tanar’ri turd about the oath, in letter as well as in spirit.

Really it does seem even more likely that it was just an excuse to kick him out of the party. At least, Serini herself might not have intended that but that’s essentially how it turned out.

Yeesh.

Serini was at least sneaking around, so she seems to have been trying to keep up appearances, if nothing else.

You htink she was lying to Sunny, why?

Lying to kids (which is how Serini sees Sunny) about danger? Seems plausible to me.

[Peelee]

I did take three years of high school Latin, which proved surprisingly useful in yesterday's Learned League.

Four for me, and the most use has been making subtle jokes in nerdy online discussion forums.

This is one place I feel particularly marginalized, since I'm a lefty who can do hardly anything with my right hand. Nothing is a bummer like going to your "left-handed" friend's house to jam and they all have right-handed guitars.

Honestly, playing Hendrix-style is far better than the reverse. I'm right handed but play guitar lefty (there's an actual reason for this, and it is far lamer and nerdier than you can possibly imagine), and man, the lefty guitar and bass selection in any given guitar store sucks hard. They don't even make my ideal guitar in a lefty model.

[hamishspence]

I bet he'd (they'd?) look badass in the new art style.

One of the earliest calendars (I think the 2014 one) had a great picture of Trigak fighting the Order. The Order are still in "old style" art, but Trigak's much more modern-looking.

[Verdruss]

It is really weird to read a webcomic about a fictional fantasy world based on an extensive, complex rule set with years of development and backstories, a webcomic that has been running for decades, plot development, character development, in-jokes, running gags, foreshadowing and flashbacks...

...and the comic I least understand, is a comic about baseball.

[hroþila]

Honestly, playing Hendrix-style is far better than the reverse. I'm right handed but play guitar lefty (there's an actual reason for this, and it is far lamer and nerdier than you can possibly imagine), and man, the lefty guitar and bass selection in any given guitar store sucks hard. They don't even make my ideal guitar in a lefty model.

I'm a lefty too and I remember when I walked into this music store in Madrid feeling all smug and special and different because I was asking for a left-handed tenor banjo and surely they wouldn't have one in a million years but the guy immediately grabbed one from the back of the store and handed it to me without batting an eyelid. A little discrimination would have been welcome, you know?

Of course, it helps that tenor banjos are symmetrical, you only need to switch the armrest (and in this case they hadn't actually changed it so it was in the wrong position). But still.

[Ruck]

Ah, that sucks.

It was always disappointing. I'd like to say it's a big reason why my musically-inclined friends didn't want to collaborate with me, but it's more likely that I'm not very good.

(I have a talent for singing and I think for songwriting, too. I am after all this time a passably mediocre guitarist.)

Four for me, and the most use has been making subtle jokes in nerdy online discussion forums.

I also find there are opportunities to correct people on alumnus / alumna / alumni. Not really that satisfying, but you know what they say about being technically correct.

Honestly, playing Hendrix-style is far better than the reverse. I'm right handed but play guitar lefty (there's an actual reason for this, and it is far lamer and nerdier than you can possibly imagine), and man, the lefty guitar and bass selection in any given guitar store sucks hard. They don't even make my ideal guitar in a lefty model.

Did Hendrix just play a righty flipped (so the strings are upside-down) or did he restring it to be in the correct order? I don't remember.

It is hard to find true lefty guitars. I have one electric, a Danelectro, that I bought off eBay at least ten years ago. I picked up a great acoustic one in 2018, the Taylor Big Baby, but when I moved up here I shipped it and UPS lost it. I haven't been able to find a lefty Big Baby since.

(Also, no reason is too lame or nerdy for me to want to hear.)

I'm a lefty too and I remember when I walked into this music store in Madrid feeling all smug and special and different because I was asking for a left-handed tenor banjo and surely they wouldn't have one in a million years but the guy immediately grabbed one from the back of the store and handed it to me without batting an eyelid. A little discrimination would have been welcome, you know?

Of course, it helps that tenor banjos are symmetrical, you only need to switch the armrest (and in this case they hadn't actually changed it so it was in the wrong position). But still.

The first guitar I had was technically a righty but it was symmetrical (maybe aside from the pick guard, but I don't even remember for sure if had one), so I just strung it backwards. Actually have an acoustic like that now-- not a fancy one, but two brothers I knew and were friends with died in a car accident some years ago, and I spoke a little bit at their memorial, so their parents gave it to me. So I'm certainly not getting rid of it anytime soon, even if I get something new.

A little easier to do that with an acoustic than an electric since it won't have the cutaway, although the action is already higher on an acoustic than an electric, and if you don't reverse the nut, it'll be really high. (I was shocked at just how much easier an electric was to fret the first time I played one.)

[Peelee]

It was always disappointing. I'd like to say it's a big reason why my musically-inclined friends didn't want to collaborate with me, but it's more likely that I'm not very good.

(I have a talent for singing and I think for songwriting, too. I am after all this time a passably mediocre guitarist.)



I also find there are opportunities to correct people on alumnus / alumna / alumni. Not really that satisfying, but you know what they say about being technically correct.



Did Hendrix just play a righty flipped (so the strings are upside-down) or did he restring it to be in the correct order? I don't remember.

It is hard to find true lefty guitars. I have one electric, a Danelectro, that I bought off eBay at least ten years ago. I picked up a great acoustic one in 2018, the Taylor Big Baby, but when I moved up here I shipped it and UPS lost it. I haven't been able to find a lefty Big Baby since.

(Also, no reason is too lame or nerdy for me to want to hear.)



The first guitar I had was technically a righty but it was symmetrical (maybe aside from the pick guard, but I don't even remember for sure if had one), so I just strung it backwards. Actually have an acoustic like that now-- not a fancy one, but two brothers I knew and were friends with died in a car accident some years ago, and I spoke a little bit at their memorial, so their parents gave it to me. So I'm certainly not getting rid of it anytime soon, even if I get something new.

A little easier to do that with an acoustic than an electric since it won't have the cutaway, although the action is already higher on an acoustic than an electric, and if you don't reverse the nut, it'll be really high. (I was shocked at just how much easier an electric was to fret the first time I played one.)

Hendrix played a right handed guitar restrung upside down so he could play it left handed. Doing this also involves changing the nut, but that's pretty trivial. My first guitar was the same, a super cheap strat ripoff done upside down. Blue wood grain and I got a blue ice pick guard, and chrome dome pickups. For a cheap piece of crap it was very sexy. Those pickups were amazing. I currently have an actual lefty Epiphone black SG. I will never understand why the double horn wasn't perfectly symmetrical - the knobs and jack still need to be on the correct side but the horns could have easily been symmetric and looked amazing.

I will never be anywhere near good enough to feel like a Gibson is worth the money and Epiphone doesn't make a Flying V in lefty. Which is a shame since Flying V is the greatest guitar design ever.

[Joebob]

See, this is exactly why i come to these forums: in depth discussion of left handed instruments.

[Peelee]

Because I missed it the first time:

A little easier to do that with an acoustic than an electric since it won't have the cutaway, although the action is already higher on an acoustic than an electric, and if you don't reverse the nut, it'll be really high. (I was shocked at just how much easier an electric was to fret the first time I played one.)

Excuse me, I don't think there's anything wrong with the action on this.

[brian 333]

Hendrix played a right handed guitar restrung upside down so he could play it left handed. Doing this also involves changing the nut, but that's pretty trivial. My first guitar was the same, a super cheap strat ripoff done upside down. Blue wood grain and I got a blue ice pick guard, and chrome dome pickups. For a cheap piece of crap it was very sexy. Those pickups were amazing. I currently have an actual lefty Epiphone black SG. I will never understand why the double horn wasn't perfectly symmetrical - the knobs and jack still need to be on the correct side but the horns could have easily been symmetric and looked amazing.

I will never be anywhere near good enough to feel like a Gibson is worth the money and Epiphone doesn't make a Flying V in lefty. Which is a shame since Flying V is the greatest guitar design ever.

A leftie musician co-worker used to build custom guitars. He started doing it because he was left handed and couldn't find affordable left-handed guitars in the styles he liked.
Turned out, he was very good at it. And since he had family in Honduras, he could get tropical hardwoods for the price of postage.

While other crew members were spending their hard-earned pay in the bars, he would be in the motel sanding, drilling, fitting, and occasionally play testing. I envied not only his craftsmanship, but his artistry. Each guitar was one-of-a-kind, made for a specific player. For the price of just the electronics and hardware of an expensive electric guitar he could produce whatever style the buyer wanted.

My own musical talent is in listening, and I have horrendous tinnitus, so...

[pearl jam]

It was always disappointing. I'd like to say it's a big reason why my musically-inclined friends didn't want to collaborate with me, but it's more likely that I'm not very good.

(I have a talent for singing and I think for songwriting, too. I am after all this time a passably mediocre guitarist.)
....

A little easier to do that with an acoustic than an electric since it won't have the cutaway, although the action is already higher on an acoustic than an electric, and if you don't reverse the nut, it'll be really high. (I was shocked at just how much easier an electric was to fret the first time I played one.)

Hendrix played a right handed guitar restrung upside down so he could play it left handed. Doing this also involves changing the nut, but that's pretty trivial. My first guitar was the same, a super cheap strat ripoff done upside down. Blue wood grain and I got a blue ice pick guard, and chrome dome pickups. For a cheap piece of crap it was very sexy. Those pickups were amazing. I currently have an actual lefty Epiphone black SG. I will never understand why the double horn wasn't perfectly symmetrical - the knobs and jack still need to be on the correct side but the horns could have easily been symmetric and looked amazing.

I will never be anywhere near good enough to feel like a Gibson is worth the money and Epiphone doesn't make a Flying V in lefty. Which is a shame since Flying V is the greatest guitar design ever.

I can relate to the feeling of mediocrity and not meriting a Gibson.

I wish I could write my own original songs. I only sing other people's.

Also, although no cutout is more common on acoustic than electric, there are certainly plenty of acoustics with cutouts, too. See: mine

Spoiler: biggish guitar photo

Show

I have Yamaha and Epiphone Les Paul electrics as well.

[danielxcutter]

Well, Ian did not set up a cult of personality kidnapping infants, so… Understatement of the week, I suppose?

Yes this was the joke :v

The "no 'just checking in' visits" line, and "We leave here today and that's it, we're done with each other" lines:

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html

do suggest that not seeing each other was part of the agreement.

That's why the letter Lirian reads in Start of Darkness, from Dorukan, laments that the agreement was made (though it's also made clear in Don't Split The Party, that the two still had visits despite it.

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html

Personally I’m leaning towards them openly breaking the oath more when they were younger, then realized it was kind of a jackass thing to do when Dorukan started getting age bonuses to his Wisdom.

I mean, could it? The Order from back then would have been as likely to run screaming for the hills if they learned about the plot back then, as they would to become the heroes the world needed. They explored this concept in miniature previously.

I actually agree with this. I think the Order themselves would as well, especially since at that point they really weren’t in the know(that would be at least after meeting Shojo).

I think there’s going to be a Talk about them breaking the Oath though, even if only to lead into the full story behind the Scribblers.

[hamishspence]

Personally I’m leaning towards them openly breaking the oath more when they were younger, then realized it was kind of a jackass thing to do when Dorukan started getting age bonuses to his Wisdom.

Based on the way the letter was written, it was clear that the meetings were still going on - they were just a bit more covert, at the time. Then Lirien was murdered and obviously the meetings stopped.

[LuPuWei]

In Dorukons dungeon, recruiting monsters?

Could it be?

The long awaited return?

Getting hype for Trigak(!!)

V will have some more apologising to do

[Liquor Box]

Dude, she tells Sunny she doesn't want Dorukan to notice them in his dungeon, therefore, she didn't know that Dorukan was already dead.

This has two implications for past discussions.

First, there was much talk about exactly how much Serini knew about the other gates. Some theories were that she was somehow able to monitor everything that happened there. The fact that she didn't know that Xykon had taken control of the gate (quite some time ago) and was experimenting on it, suggests that her information wasn't that complete - perhaps being limited to exactly what happened at the point of their destruction.

Second, one of the main justifications for her kidnapping the paladins (and later attacking the Order) was that they were trespassing in the valley near her dungeon. It is relevant that she was also trespassing in Dorukon's dungeon (and apparently weakening its defences by stealing its monster defenders).

On a more minor note, some people suggested that Serini's defences compared favourably to Dorukon's because her monsters were more mighty. This comic suggests that she took his monsters, so hers were not more mighty.

[ff7hero]

On a more minor note, some people suggested that Serini's defences compared favourably to Dorukon's because her monsters were more mighty. This comic suggests that she took his monsters, so hers were not more mighty.

I don't have a horse in this race, but I feel compelled to point out that Dorukon's Dungeons wasn't necessarily her only source of monsters.

[danielxcutter]

Oh definitely. If only because if all her monsters were from there Dorukan totally would have noticed. Still not exactly a sterling record though.

Also hey, that makes it a very rogue aesthetic if she literally stole her defenses from her friends

[Metastachydium]

In Dorukons dungeon, recruiting monsters?

Could it be?

The long awaited return?

Getting hype for Trigak(!!)

"Sunny! Stop trying to pick up the dead chimera!"

Also hey, that makes it a very rogue aesthetic if she literally stole her defenses from her friends

"In retrospect, putting the rookie paladin and Girard's 10 year old grandkid in the same cave as the dire bear and the purple worms might not have exactly been a stellar idea, but how were I supposed to know?"

[danielxcutter]

No no no, it’s wizards that have no sense of right or wrong!