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Thread: Yu-Gi-Oh! 5Ds
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2022-12-12, 06:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Yu-Gi-Oh! 5Ds
Spoiler: Player List
AvatarVecna
Rogan
CaoimhinTheCape
Snowblaze
Persolus
Allando
Caedorus
Bladescape
Book Wombat
Elenna
Murska
Lady Serpentine
JeenLeen
Fleeing Coward
Turn One
Draw Phase Skipped
Standby Phase
"Jack," the head of sector security said tiredly, the bird design on his suit reflecting in the light.
"There is something I never told you about the day I reached out to you to invite you to leave the Satellite and become the King of Turbo Dueling. I did not reach out to you merely because I thought you would entertain crowds and sell action figures."
"Oh, so you don't just see me as a dancing monkey? I'm so flattered."
"You see Jack, I am a member of the Movement of Iliaster. We are dedicated to keeping the Darkness from sweeping over these lands. We began three thousand years ago, when the Nazca Lines began coming to life and needed us to stop them. We swore ourselves to a force that keeps the world together, the Crimson Dragon."
"It's glue! You swore yourself to magic glue!"
"The Crimson Dragon chose between us all the five that were to bear its mark. The Signers. When you dueled Yusei–"
"When he beat me, you mean."
"Ah, yes. The victor is immaterial. What matters is the mark that appeared on both of your arms. Each of you is a Signer, and chosen to defeat the Dark Signers trying to resurrect the creatures within the Nazca Lines, the Earthbound Immortals."
Jack stood and headed out. "'The victor is immaterial,' eh Goodwin? You have absolutely no idea how a true duelist thinks. I'll tell you this much, Goodwin. I'll be going to the satellite after Yusei. But it's not because of destiny or to fight the good fight. It's because Yusei defeated me. I thought the path to power was leaving the Satellite behind and chasing my fame on the turbo duel track. Yusei only ever left home chasing me, and headed back right after. It seems I've only grown weaker since I left. So fine, if you want me to go to the satellite and trounce these 'Dark Signers,' that's what I'll do. But it's in pursuit of my own power."
"Jack, in the worldshaping force of the Earthbound Immortals, personal power means nothing."
"Nothing? Spend your life being chased down by those set up to keep the peace. Watch your friends be torn apart by the world around them. Watch your world crumble until you're all alone, and tell me what means more than your own strength. Now if you'll excuse me, Goodwin, I believe I have a few Dark Signers in between me and Yusei."
The Satellite was never beautiful, but what Crow was showing Yusei... the streets consumed in purple fire, whole blocks of housing, such as it was, flattened and abandoned...
"What happened here, Crow?"
"A monster, Yus. A horrible, huge creaturec came from those rifts in the ground. It was following a duel runner... a blue and orange one. The one Kalin made, Yusei."
Yusei flinched. "Kalin? He... is it him? Or someone with his runner?"
"Can't say, Yus. I just had to keep the kids away from that thing. There's not a monster in my deck that could stand up to a creature like that. Not yours either, last I saw it."
Yusei got into his red duel runner. "I've had one important addition since then."
"Wait... Stardust?"
Yusei just smiled and revved up his runner.
"So... you did it? You finally beat Jack?"
"If what you say is true, this duelist shouldn't be hard to find."
"You're sure you can win, Yusei?"
"No... but if this duelist is trying to destroy Satellite, he'll have to start with me." With a roar of his motor, Yusei drove off into the night.
Main Phase One Begins and will end in ~48 Hours
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2022-12-12, 08:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Yu-Gi-Oh! 5Ds
'lo everyone! I'm Persolus and think that you shouldn't kill me first round!
...on the other hand, you could do so, I just like saying it.
Now according to google's RNG, my first vote is ... *drumroll* ...Lady Serpentine!Last edited by Persolus; 2022-12-14 at 03:54 PM.
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2022-12-12, 08:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Yu-Gi-Oh! 5Ds
Thanks, Flat!
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2022-12-12, 09:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Yu-Gi-Oh! 5Ds
JeenLeen, a dozen and two.
Every day...
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Discord: bookwhyrm, feel free to DM.
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2022-12-12, 09:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Yu-Gi-Oh! 5Ds
So, to copy over from the Discord...
If Greiger is present, they should claim today.
Greiger can be immune to recruitment. Wolves do not have a direct kill. Thus, Greiger is safe and the only possible guaranteed clear barring the following circumstances:
Wolves recruit Jack Atlas. This requires them to out Jack Atlas to kill Greiger.
Wolves recruit Akiza Izinski and manage to get her lynched. This is often going to be a particularly vicious outcome for town anyway, since she can potentially take a *lot* of people with her depending on how long she's been using her power for, but this also would give her a clear target. (However, see below.)
Kalin Kessler would die, and randomly blows up Greiger. Nothing to be done about *that* regardless of recruitment status or if Greiger has claimed.
Immortal Earthbound Aslla Piscu is in play and redirects Akiza to Greiger, with Akiza later dying. Again, nothing to be done about that.
Earthbound Immortal Ccaryhua is in play and Greiger voted for them and was chosen at random; another instance where Greiger claiming doesn't matter.
All of these require wolves to have also recruited Yusei Fudo; if they haven't Yusei should be sitting on Greiger. Akiza plays further requira Martha to be recruited, since she should be too.
Sayer and Blister cannot prevent Greiger's effect, as it does not target.
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2022-12-12, 10:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Yu-Gi-Oh! 5Ds
I like the D1 plan Lady Serpentine thought up. Assuming there's no gaps in it -- and I haven't had the time to look or am sure I understand the timing of Town vs. Wolf powers enough to analysis it properly -- that she would post such makes me pretty sure she's not the sole wolf we have D1.
I guess she could be and it's a WIFOM trick, but it seems a solid plan a wolf wouldn't unveil.
Also, for any who missed it in the general discussion on Discord, the wolves/cult do NOT have a factional kill power. It's just conversion by the bad Goodwin.
Plot question: so, in the story, is the Goodwin that sent Atlas after Yusei the baddie leading the Earthbound Immortals, or the dude who wins if he gets a dark mark? Anyone who saw the show willing to chime in?
For a vote: a D1 on Persolus for voting the person doing good analysis in Discord seems fitting. Yeah, they might not have seen it, and they say it was a RNG dice roll to determine who to vote for, but it's really early D1 so that's good enough for me.
But Des Wombat is my favorite (unbanned) card
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2022-12-12, 11:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Yu-Gi-Oh! 5Ds
I hit the wrong formatting.
Persolus.Last edited by JeenLeen; 2022-12-13 at 02:03 PM.
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2022-12-12, 11:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Yu-Gi-Oh! 5Ds
I intend to relax and ****post a lot.
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Eeny meanie miney Snowblaze
Currently Recruiting WW/Mafia: Logic's Deathloop Mafia and Book Wombat's A Small Wager - A Practical Guide To Evil
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2022-12-12, 11:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Yu-Gi-Oh! 5Ds
@Xihirli
Originally Posted by original post
I know townie powers usually resolve later, and this seems an exception, but I want to make sure.
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2022-12-13, 01:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Yu-Gi-Oh! 5Ds
Thanks for saving me the trouble of deciding who to random-vote,
AvatarVecna.Last edited by Snowblaze; 2022-12-14 at 05:02 AM.
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Werewolf games won: 24
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2022-12-13, 04:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Yu-Gi-Oh! 5Ds
Hello everybody
I want to offer a counter-point to your conclusion (claim today).
If this is done, our enemy will KNOW who can't be targeted instead of having a chance to fail a recruitment.
The advantage of a claim today is relatively minor (removing one player from the list of suspects).
There are no night kills, so no chance of Greiger dying by accident in the night. He might get hit by a power which might kill him later, but the risk is low. Plus, this kill can only actually happen at end of day 2 at the earliest.
So, the very worst case is, Greiger gets tagged by accident tonight AND the player who did so gets converted AND they actually out themselves in using the power to get this kill trough.
So, unless Greiger gets heat TODAY, stay silent untill tomorrow. If you got one of the killing powers, consider not using them tonight to reduce the risk even more. That's especialy true for the 'kill targets after own destruction' power. Tomorrow, Greiger can claim. Night 2, he can receive protection against kills, to prevent a hypotethical converted killing power to take him out.
JeenLeen, so there might be a wagon. Plus, if I squint hard enough, praising a plan which (is in general good, but) has some flaws might be a wolf who tries to get some credit for supporting said plan.Last edited by Rogan; 2022-12-14 at 03:52 PM. Reason: Vote removal
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2022-12-13, 05:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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2022-12-13, 07:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Yu-Gi-Oh! 5Ds
Persolus
Trying this on for size."Trust bladescape, Shadow of Doubt,"
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2022-12-13, 09:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Yu-Gi-Oh! 5Ds
Having been looking over the mechanics more... I believe
Roganis either our wolf desperately trying to avert a potential nightmare scenario for wolves, or a townie who hasn't thoroughly considered the mechanical implications of this setup.
In the absence of anything better I like those odds enough to roll the dice on them.
Will explain the details in a minute, I'm writing them up now.Last edited by Lady Serpentine; 2022-12-14 at 04:35 PM.
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2022-12-13, 09:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Yu-Gi-Oh! 5Ds
I usually only get a wagon on me early D1 when I make a convoluted scheme trying to use convoluted power rules.
I get Rogan's point. I could see a wolf making statements like I made to gain towncred; my only defense is that I don't think a wolf would go looking for flaws or asking others to look for flaws. If I were the wolf, I'd want that scheme as full of holes as possible and the town trusting it as much as possible. Even if I had privately already asked Xi about a power interaction and gotten an answer, I don't think wolf!me would then post it publicly.
Rogan's counter-suggestion does have merit. Either way, if Geiger exists*, he can protect himself N1 from conversion and claim D2 if needed.
However, the real benefit of a D1 claim, in my opinion, isn't that we have an essentially** confirmed townie D1, but that we know who to not target with bad effects. It makes the Town not help the wolves by accident.
- I'm not sure if Yusei should or shouldn't protect Geiger N1. I don't understand the timing rules well enough, but I think he could target someone else N1 and Geiger N2 and keep Geiger safe from wolves. Especially if others (like Jack) know not to risk killing Geiger by mistake.
- Jack knows not to target Geiger.
- Akiza knows not to target Geiger.
- Carly knows... well, maybe boosting Geiger is a safe bet to not boost a wolf, but I'm not sure what it'd do. Protect from all effects? Let him protect another person, too? I think Xi said they wouldn't know they are boosted, so likely not an additional person to protect.
- Misty doesn't waste her scry.
- Crow can boost Geiger's vote (if wise. I'm not sure if Geiger should vote D2 onward, due to that one wolf power.)
- MC knows not to waste their power on Geiger. Xi: side question. If the MC targets someone who doesn't select a target, but they do use a power, would anything be announced?
- Yanagi knows not to waste her power checking if he's in play.
- Blister knows not to waste his power.
- Martha knows not to target Geiger.
So, while it does give Roman Goodwin knowledge that one player is baned, probabilistically that's not likely to really change who they'd convert N1. It'd be awesome if the cult fails to convert N1 because they target poorly and hit the one immune guy, but that's a... 1/13 chance if I counted and thought through the math right.
Though if Geiger does think he's likely to get converted tonight due to whatever reasons, I can see them keeping quiet.
*14 players if I counted right, and 17 power roles. I'm going to assume he does, but we should remember the only guaranteed Role to be in play is the head cultist.
**I think it'd be super foolish for a wolf to fakeclaim Geiger D1, due to decent odds (13 non-wolf players in play and 16 non-wolf powers in play, so 13/16 chance?) he'd get counterclaimed and lose D1. Or if we lynch the real Geiger by mistake, with the right powers in play, we can probably keep the cult contained N1 and kill them off D2. So a Geiger claim can probably (literally due to probability) be trusted. Though if Misty wants to confirm, I'd probably feel better if the game goes long and we start getting paranoid.
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If I ninja'd your post by writing mine while you write yours, I'm really glad we know there's only one baddie right now so we don't look like we're in cahoots.
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I'll admit I missed this line in Rogan's plan, and that does make it safer. I'm really not sure if that's a good idea or not. It's like asking the vig not to shoot N1. Probably good advice, but unlikely to be followed.
I guess Akiza is the only one this is really asking not to act N1, and honestly her power just seems too dangerous in general; Jack can control if his power kills someone, so him targeting Geiger N1 only goes bad for town if Jack gets converted.
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2022-12-13, 10:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Yu-Gi-Oh! 5Ds
I'm starting to realise a flaw in my strategy of "not reading the setup". Having fixed that problem, I think a Geiger claim is decently workable given lack of nightkills, but also wolves not knowing who the unconvertable player is means there's a chance of wasted conversions/a player suddenly becoming confirmed town in lategame could really mess with the wolves' game plan.
So, yeah, imo it's up to Geiger whether or not they decide to claim (and if I am Geiger, I am deciding not to claim).
Also seconding that Akiza should not be acting night one.
Eh, don't really have enough to go on to take the conversation away from mechanics yet, I currently have no reads confident enough to be worth stating.I'm writing stuff, come and read it!
Werewolf games won: 24
Werewolf games lost: 14
Games as town: 23.5
Games as neutral: 5.5
Games as wolf: 9
Games narrated: 1
Deaths: 17
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2022-12-13, 10:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Yu-Gi-Oh! 5Ds
Affirming I can post in thread
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2022-12-13, 10:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Yu-Gi-Oh! 5Ds
I’ve only skimmed the rules and don’t have time to look at them properly right now, but my instinct is that Geiger should wait to claim. At the very least they can wait till N1 before deciding to claim (unless they’re likely to be lynched, of course), which will give us more time to discuss.
At this point I’m leaning town on Lady Serpentine. Rogan’s response to the plan is NAI I think.
Also, Persolus because dueling wagons are fun.
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Whoops, clicked the wrong colour.PersolusLast edited by Elenna; 2022-12-14 at 07:53 AM.
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2022-12-13, 10:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Yu-Gi-Oh! 5Ds
...Or the wolf!rogan is trying to find out if there is a Geigner to allow possible fakeclaim later. Or Geigner!rogan is trying to ascertain whether or not to claim. /tinfoil
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*Geiger, not Geigner.
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2022-12-13, 11:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Yu-Gi-Oh! 5Ds
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2022-12-13, 11:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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2022-12-13, 11:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Yu-Gi-Oh! 5Ds
Alright, so my thoughts so far:
Lady Serpentine is clear for Day 1. I don't think there's enough benefits to the solo Wolf to think through that plan and put it forward. Unfortunately, that means Ti is a good target for Roman N1 given the strong townie vibes, so we'll have to remember that going forward.
Gonna strongly disagree with this reasoning. If I'm a solo Wolf/Cult Recruiter on Day 1, I'm not doing anything to jeopardize my position. Roman's goal is to stay alive as long as possible to actually get allies, and that means blending in, not voting out someone who is trusted from the get go.
Rogan also feels Town for today for me. The idea is already out there that Greiger can protect themselves, so the solo Wolf probably figures that they might as well know who not to waste a Night on. Continues with my thought that Roman wants to stay quiet and live as long as possible, but I don't see Roman sticking their head out to argue the point.
Now that I'm caught up I don't like either of the wagons so far, and in addition to them don't want to vote Lady Serpentine or Rogan Day 1. I'm gonna be more looking to quieter people overall or anyone coasting to try and get through the day.
Gonna try to start something new with aVote: bladescape
Votes:
Lady Serpentine (1): Persolus
JeenLeen (3): Book Wombat, Rogan, Murska
Persolus (3): JeenLeen, Bladescape, Elenna
Snowblaze (1): AvatarVecna
AvatarVecna (1): Snowblaze
Bladescape (1): CaoimhinTheCape
No Vote: Allando, Caedorus, Lady Serpentine, Fleeing CowardLast edited by CaoimhinTheCape; 2022-12-14 at 11:25 AM.
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2022-12-13, 11:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Yu-Gi-Oh! 5Ds
So, mechanics time!
First off: I did realize while writing this up is that Martha being perpetually on Greiger is probably worse than her remaining perpetually on herself (however, Yusei should definitely be perpetually on Greiger).
Now, moving on:
The trick to this game is that wolves cannot meaningfully progress the gamestate in nearly every configuration.
Ordinarily if you leave a cult alone it just keeps growing. This one, though, has a hard cap at five members.
This means that there are very few situations where wolves can force the game to proceed towards a conclusion if town refuses to lynch in cases where they're not extremely certain. 5/14 is simply not enough wolves to successfully force a lynch anyway. (Crow Hogan cannot double their own vote, meaning that recruiting them doesn't help wolves; that takes it to 9/9 and outs every wolf.)
Ordinarily this is terrible play, but again, the conditions of this game are weird. Town being able to infinitely stall means we are incentivized to; being able to afford to wait until we have the information to effectively guarantee our lynches are wolves is actually a good reason to, so long as we are continuing to generate information... Which we should be, since there are going to be power results, claims, etc. as time goes on.
The only way I see that wolves potentially can get a win, if town is careful, is by recruiting Akiza Izinski. At that point town is in a bit of a pickle, but it's still not unwinnable, because wolves need some very specific circumstances to be able to set her off and win from it.
For a start, for wolves to win there as opposed to everyone dying, they need to have recruited Jack Atlas or have removed both Misty and Martha from the picture.
How bad the various scenarios are for wolves varies depending on how many of them are bound to Akiza; however, as the above implies, so long as Misty is alive, town, and capable of using her powers, and wolves cannot use Jack Atlas to set off Akiza, town can continue to stall indefinitely and remain safe in the knowledge that Akiza will not be set off. Also, so long as Sayer or Blister are alive and town and Martha is alive and town, once Akiza's identity is revealed, she can be rendered harmless by rendering her unable to use her powers or forcing her to target Blister, and then clearing everyone else (even if she is Earthbound Immortal Aslla Piscu, statistically this is true; she has a 50% chance to sneak a link through to Martha's 100% chance to guarantee someone is not linked, or a 25% chance if both Sayer and Blister are targeting her.)
...on that note, I'm kind of coming to the conclusion that since a town that's on the ball can just drag the game on until we've found the wolves by careful analysis with no time pressure unless Akiza is around, we might want to remove her as a factor entirely.
This might be illuminating as to why I think Rogan is a potential wolf - because having a confirmed townie is extremely valuable in a situation where we're relying on long-haul analysis (which I think removes almost all risk of an actual town loss from the game, and thus is a good plan), I'm inclined to think of pushing for us to not have one as something a wolf would consider a worthwhile risk.
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Some of you may be wondering why I'm voting in light of that big wall eplaining why this one time it actually is bad to - it's because if we're not all on board with that plan, then we do need to try and play normally.Last edited by Lady Serpentine; 2022-12-13 at 11:23 AM.
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2022-12-13, 11:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Yu-Gi-Oh! 5Ds
Stallimg the game indefinitely is both boring and leaving things to the RNG. If the wolves happen to recruit the right persons, they win. If they get the wrong person's, they lose.
Leaving this aside:
A confirmed townie is very nice and everything. But since our kind of innocent child can't die by accident you are actually advocating to reduce the options for discussion. If he reveals later, you can see if anybody tried to push for them and what kind of arguments they give.
Delaying a reveal is better.Spoiler: I'm a seer
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2022-12-13, 12:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Yu-Gi-Oh! 5Ds
Sorry, mobile client, checking the op is a pain.
Aside from the noob question of what an innocent child is, I am inclined to agree. Stalling is boring.
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I am nursing a townie feeling for everyone who has spoken yet. If someone who hasn't speaks up now, I get a vote target. Think wisely, wolves.
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I am nursing a townie feeling for everyone who has spoken yet. If someone who hasn't speaks up now, I get a vote target. Think wisely, wolves.
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2022-12-13, 12:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Yu-Gi-Oh! 5Ds
An innocent child is a role which can use their power to get a public confirmation of being town.
Since Greiger can't be converted (unless he takes this risk willingly), someone claiming this role without getting counter-claimed is either a bold and lucky wolf, or the real guy and nearly guaranteed town.
If we were playing in a game with private communication, having a player who can be trusted would be huge. But we don't have this, so the advantage of an early claim is, in my opinion, neglectable.Spoiler: I'm a seer
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2022-12-13, 12:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Yu-Gi-Oh! 5Ds
Ok so my thoughts on the situation:
We shouldn't stall for the simple reason that I want to play to have fun not to win. Even if stalling made town win automatically I'd still not do it.
I think thatCaedorusis going to vote me so.
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I'm inclined to agree here.
Can someone please inform this noob!me how to quote multiple people in one post? Is it just manually typing "Originally Posted by [I
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ok lol I had not expected thatLast edited by Allando; 2022-12-14 at 06:48 AM. Reason: Vote strike through
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2022-12-13, 01:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Yu-Gi-Oh! 5Ds
The ''+ sign
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2022-12-13, 01:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Yu-Gi-Oh! 5Ds
I'm going to risk someone pointig at me and saying "See, he's pretending to be active and helpful, without actually doing something AI" (Alignment Indicative).
When you are logged in, you shoud habe a "+ Symbol next to the quote button. Klick this, and you will select this post for quoting, without starting to type your reply. When you hit reply or the normal quote later, these other posts marked previously will be included.
The other thing is a feature of this subforum: When you post multiple times in a row, with no other player inbetween, the forum will automatically merge your posts.Spoiler: I'm a seer
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2022-12-13, 02:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Yu-Gi-Oh! 5Ds
Those are good reasons to lean town on Lady Serpentine, Persolus, and Rogan. And probably you for stating it.
I'll see whatbladescapesays.
I sometimes feel bad for who gets the somewhat-random D1 lynch, but he's posted yet said little (good move for the cultist, albeit normal for bladescape early D1). And he had a good run last game.Last edited by JeenLeen; 2022-12-14 at 09:33 AM.