OOTS #1271 - The Discussion Thread

[Clistenes]

Don't split the party, Roy!!!

[brian 333]

I don't think Serini's stalling. I think she's just not worried about Team Evil. The last she knew they were pointlessly grinding her dungeons to nowhere, and completely lacking the skills needed to discover her backstage area.

[Rinazina]

Roy leaving for some "fresh air" strikes me as something that could go very badly.

Especially if his idea of "fresh air" is going outside for some actual fresh air, where he might run into the villains,

this is impossible (he can't disable the trap) and so dangerous that doesn't make sense.

but even just staying in the caves might chance that or he might fail to get back or whatever.
He's getting impatient, so he's likely going to make a mess of things somehow.

It might or might not be an hook to get abducted and/or to arrive last minutes and save the day. But this situation is quite stalled in cooking, napping and cracking jokes. Possible new focus might be...

1. to the Team Evil & Quinton that realizes the presence of the trap-portal now?
2. to the IFCC and their schemes?
3. or is time for Julia to call back?
4. .... or .... Tarquin punching a bunny

[brian 333]

this is impossible (he can't disable the trap) and so dangerous that doesn't make sense.



It might or might not be an hook to get abducted and/or to arrive last minutes and save the day. But this situation is quite stalled in cooking, napping and cracking jokes. Possible new focus might be...

1. to the Team Evil & Quinton that realizes the presence of the trap-portal now?
2. to the IFCC and their schemes?
3. or is time for Julia to call back?
4. .... or .... Tarquin punching a bunny

I'll take #4 for $200, Alex.

[bunsen_h]

I'm reminded of the cook (Corporal Snark, which makes me wonder if that's where the word came from or vice versa) in Catch-22 who complains about having to cook for such Philistines, they would wolf down sweet potatoes laced with laundry soap.

Apparently the OED puts that sense of "snark" going back to 1882, and derived from earlier words. Lewis Carroll (C.L. Dodgson) used it in 1876 in "The Hunting of the Snark", for a dangerous creature.

Tolkien using "second breakfast":

Hobbits sometimes have extra meals:

Huh. I stand corrected.

It's a cypher. Someone broke it the first time we saw the cauldron, I think it was "cauldron of instant potion-making" or something along those lines.

"Magic Instant Pot".

Its like that old joke, what do they call the one who graduated bottom of their class in med school? "Doctor". Sure, everyone else did better, but that person still did all the work and graduated.

That's true, but my wife and I have suffered through a number of alarmingly incompetent doctors. We cite that joke frequently, and with great bitterness.

Roy leaving for some "fresh air" strikes me as something that could go very badly.

Especially if his idea of "fresh air" is going outside for some actual fresh air, where he might run into the villains, but even just staying in the caves might chance that or he might fail to get back or whatever.

He's getting impatient, so he's likely going to make a mess of things somehow.

I find it hard to believe that he'd be so careless as to leave the "backstage area". And so far, at least, the villains haven't shown any signs of finding that, though the Quinton and its helpers may well make a difference there.

[Peelee]

That's true, but my wife and I have suffered through a number of alarmingly incompetent doctors. We cite that joke frequently, and with great bitterness.

That's usually how I use it too, but I do like when it can be applied slightly differently.

Especially considering that grad school also churns out doctors.

[faustin]

For some reason, I wish Roy and Redcloak had an excuse for a "opposite aligned temporal party up", like Durkon/Hilgya and or Elan/Thog.

By the way, should Durkon give Belkar T-Word Privileges?

[Joebob]

For some reason, I wish Roy and Redcloak had an excuse for a "opposite aligned temporal party up", like Durkon/Hilgya and or Elan/Thog.

By the way, should Durkon give Belkar T-Word Privileges?

Good Banjo no. Belkar's come a long way, but I still don't remotely trust him with that kind of power.

[Raven777]

For some reason, I wish Roy and Redcloak had an excuse for a "opposite aligned temporal party up", like Durkon/Hilgya and or Elan/Thog.

Roy and Redcloak could bond over their shared burden of being a protagonist or antagonist saddled with getting a team of quirky semi-competent allies to get anything done.

[danielxcutter]

A moment like that Malack and V had ("Is yours always like this?" "Yes. Yours?" *sigh*) would be funny yeah.

[JonahFalcon]

Belkar's lying. He enjoys gourmet cooking as much as killing. Doesn't matter who the diners are.

[danielxcutter]

If this was that Star Trek wallpaper he'd be setting phasers to tsun.

[bunsen_h]

That's usually how I use it too, but I do like when it can be applied slightly differently.

Especially considering that grad school also churns out doctors.

In my past lives in academia and tech support, I have suffered through a number of alarmingly incompetent/stupid Ph.D.s as well.

[danielxcutter]

My dad's a math professor. He says a professor's job is researching, teaching ability is secondary. Which is why some competent professors have crappy classes.

[bunsen_h]

My dad's a math professor. He says a professor's job is researching, teaching ability is secondary. Which is why some competent professors have crappy classes.

I think that teaching is an important part of a prof's job.

But I'm talking about stuff like a chemistry Ph.D. who does things like mistaking titanium for tantalum, constantly screwing up her procedures in very basic ways but blaming the problems on the reagents being "impure", etc.

When I was doing all of the tech support for a suite of chemistry modelling software, I had one Ph.D. write directly to me (rather than the general "support@$COMPANY" address) to ask how to get the software to do a particular kind of calculation. I explained to him -- in technical detail -- why it was fundamentally impossible for that kind of software to do that calculation.

Spoiler: Technical details for those who care: entropy calculations

Show

Briefly: he wanted software that found static minimum energy states of compounds to calculate their intrinsic entropy. The entropy of a structure is affected by a number of factors, including interactions with its environment, as well as the possibility of parts of it rotating, vibrating, and flexing. The software did "molecular dynamics", which would allow the structure to do vibrations on a very localized scale, but wouldn't at all represent the internal motions on a larger scale. Worse, the vibrations, rotations, etc. are governed by quantum mechanics, which the software completely didn't touch.

He then wrote to the "support@$COMPANY" address, asking the same question. I explained again, with a bit more detail. With slightly simpler language, though if he had a Ph.D. (and/or knew enough to want that calculation done), he should have understood the first time.

Then he posted to the customer mailing list, asking the same question again. Since I was the admin for that mailing list, I responded on the list. "As I told you when you contacted me directly, and again when you asked via the support E-mail address, that isn't possible..."

[arimareiji]

Apparently the OED puts that sense of "snark" going back to 1882, and derived from earlier words. Lewis Carroll (C.L. Dodgson) used it in 1876 in "The Hunting of the Snark", for a dangerous creature.

Thank you much for the answer. (^_^)

That's true, but my wife and I have suffered through a number of alarmingly incompetent doctors. We cite that joke frequently, and with great bitterness.

Never going to forget the Alabama doc-in-a-box who I could hear telling the people next door to keep heat on a wound to "boil out the infection." I was much younger, and had come in with one foot inoperable (the muscle to lift it wasn't working, leaving it utterly limp), otherwise I might have made a run for it.

He insisted it had nothing to do with tweaking it while jogging before taking a nap, and seized on the word "sleep" in my description of what happened to declare it had fallen asleep (despite having none of the associated altered sensations, and having woken up over an hour ago) and it would wake up by itself. It gradually got better over weeks while I used crutches to avoid tripping over it, but I still can't lift it all the way (and it might've been worse, if I hadn't run into a sports therapist at the college gym a couple months later who diagnosed what happened and gave me exercises to strengthen it).

[ratfox]

Ahah, yes, imagine someone calling two different meals of the day variations on breakfast. Who would do that. So crazy.

The word "dinner" comes from old French meaning "break fast":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinner...2C%20hungry%22).

In French, the three meals of the day are now called "petit déjeuner", "déjeuner" and "dîner". Not only are the first two "little breakfast" and "breakfast", but even the third (which "dinner" comes from) originally meant the same.

[No good @ names]

I'm gonna go with "Serini is definitely stalling them."

In fact, call me paranoid, but I think her plan since she agreed to help them has been to get them to lower their guard. Roy is going to be the only one not immobilized in a few strips.

I don't think Serini's stalling. I think she's just not worried about Team Evil. The last she knew they were pointlessly grinding her dungeons to nowhere, and completely lacking the skills needed to discover her backstage area.

I don't think she thinks they're pointlessly grinding, I got the sense that until the Order showed up, she thought the end result would be Xykon obtaining the Gate, even if it took them a long time to figure out the ruse (1254-1256). Rather she's arranged all the defences she can and knows that a direct confrontation with Xykon is not practical. The monsters Team Evil is killing presumably take time and work for her to replace (based on 1270), even if she's not emotionally attached to them like the backstage crew, Team Evil is still chipping away at defences she's unable to replace. I'm guessing the swap-overs were built with the assistance of the 3 friendly Scribblers and so what defences she's got already (not necessarily all we've seen though) are all the the defences there is. If the Order can stop Xykon she's now content to tag along and help for the best case scenario, but she also acceptting the fates she can't control, now including the Gods ending the World.

[hamishspence]

Apparently the OED puts that sense of "snark" going back to 1882, and derived from earlier words. Lewis Carroll (C.L. Dodgson) used it in 1876 in "The Hunting of the Snark", for a dangerous creature.

Some snarks are extremely dangerous - and these are called Boojums. But the common snark "does no manner of harm" and is harmless, besides maybe having a limited ability to bite (if feathered) or scratch (if whiskered).

But anyone who's encountered a Boojum, will have "softly and suddenly vanished away", and "will never be heard from again."

[Breccia]

That's a mighty big can of solvent. This must happen a lot.

[bunsen_h]

The word "dinner" comes from old French meaning "break fast":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinner...2C%20hungry%22).

In French, the three meals of the day are now called "petit déjeuner", "déjeuner" and "dîner". Not only are the first two "little breakfast" and "breakfast", but even the third (which "dinner" comes from) originally meant the same.

It's arguably reasonable for every meal to be considered the breaking of a fast, albeit of only a few hours.

[Slaine]

it is Sunny's anti-anti magic contact len

nah, as first you should believe Giant knows what he's doing, as second, you need to put some slow pace in between epic duels

Ah, the lens! I hadn't spotted that, thank you.

And I guess we'll see where it goes. I trust the Giant obvs but it feels a bit ponderous at the moment.

[Quizatzhaderac]

I'm thinking Roy going to to get air is just going to lead to a private conversation.

I also note that the paladins were incarcerated days ago, so they must be hungry indeed, unless they were fed and memory wiped.

I'm also wondering how Serini doesn't "keep much food around", is there an Adli in the bugbear village?

The whole "second breakfast" thing always raises my hackles. It doesn't make a lot of sense to break one's fast twice in short order, unless every meal should also be considered to be breaking a "fast". And Tolkien would never have called it that; he'd have used the proper term "elevenses". Breakfast, elevenses, lunch, tea, dinner, supper.

"Second breakfast" is the right term because it is awkward. "Elevenses" doesn't work for a couple of reasons. The lesser reasons are that it's regional, a newer word, and that it implies a light meal.

But the biggest problem it that the reader would know what it means and have a preconceived attitude about "elevenses". We're supposed to be in Aragon's perspective, not understanding that these hobbits typically eat six substantial meals a day, and possibly have to due to their non-human metabolism. The awkwardness of the term "second breakfast" implies Aragon/the reader lacks the word or idea involved. The initial description as just "breakfast" conveys the importance to the hobbits, they are not missing "elevenses" or "mid-morning snack"; Pippin feels the same way we would if going on a long march and the leader skipped breakfast.

[Fyraltari]

The awkwardness of the term "second breakfast" implies Aragon/the reader lacks the word or idea involved. The initial description as just "breakfast" conveys the importance to the hobbits, they are not missing "elevenses" or "mid-morning snack"; Pippin feels the same way we would if going on a long march and the leader skipped breakfast.

Pippin and Aragorn are both speaking in their native tongue, Westron. If the Hobbits had a special term for second breakfast unique to the Shire and/or not properly translatable to English, it would have been left untranslated in the text like mathom is.

[PattThe]

Time to solo the lich and DIE again!

[brian 333]

Pippin and Aragorn are both speaking in their native tongue, Westron. If the Hobbits had a special term for second breakfast unique to the Shire and/or not properly translatable to English, it would have been left untranslated in the text like mathom is.

Strider and the rangers had spent years guarding The Shire. They used Bree, a mixed community of halflings and men, as a base. Gandalf specifically tasked Aragorn, who knew Bilbo personally, to keep an eye out for Bilbo's nephew, who might soon be leaving The Shire with trouble chasing him.

Aragorn knew about second breakfast.

[Mayrax]

Hi All,

"... you're not the type of mimic to be a seat"

Nice one :)

Mayrax

[LtPowers]

Hi All,

"... you're not the type of mimic to be a seat"

Nice one :)

Mayrax

I had a feeling that was an allusion to something, or perhaps a pun, but I don't recognize it.



This whole "let's eat lunch" thing feels like it would have been covered by a "we can just say we ate and we'll be fine" or "just mark off a ration and you're done eating" type of joke back in the early days of the strip.


Powers &8^]

[KorvinStarmast]

What do you want from her. She's old!

And? {Insert suitable impression of getoffamylawn here}

This seems like an opportunity for a visit from Roy's old man.

That's where my thought went, or Julia.

And secondly it feels like the whole story has completely stalled.

Yes, it does, but when it is presented in book form, this will probably flow pretty well.

Okay, Elan forgot to say "Dun-dun, duunnn!" When Roy said he wanted to step out for fresh air.

Good point.

If it turns out Serini is just stalling them though, then the way it's going makes perfect sense and I have no complaints at all.

I was hoping for a bit of Scribbler exposition, not Serini taking a second nap. Mind you, falling asleep in a meeting isn't 'good sleep' the way that a proper power nap is, and I know this from experience. (On the other hand, falling asleep during a teleconference if you have the right kind of chair can be restful).

We've had several strips now showing the main characters getting increasingly relaxed. This feels like a set-up for a sudden attack on them.

Or a message from out of area from Julia or Hinjo...

Its like that old joke, what do they call the one who graduated bottom of their class in med school? "Doctor". Sure, everyone else did better, but that person still did all the work and graduated.

Still have to pass their boards.

And Serini is still an epic level rogue. With all that that implies.

Yep.

1. to the Team Evil & Quinton that realizes the presence of the trap-portal now?
2. to the IFCC and their schemes?
3. or is time for Julia to call back?
4. .... or .... Tarquin punching a bunny

I vote for 1.

Belkar's lying. He enjoys gourmet cooking as much as killing. Doesn't matter who the diners are.

Hard to argue with either of those two points.

ask how to get the software to do a particular kind of calculation. I explained to him -- in technical detail -- why it was fundamentally impossible for that kind of software to do that calculation.
He then wrote to the "support@$COMPANY" address, asking the same question.
Then he posted to the customer mailing list, asking the same question again.

Expecting that this persons surname was Karyn.

The word "dinner" comes from old French meaning "break fast":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinner...2C%20hungry%22).

In French, the three meals of the day are now called "petit déjeuner", "déjeuner" and "dîner". Not only are the first two "little breakfast" and "breakfast", but even the third (which "dinner" comes from) originally meant the same.

Now that' awsesome, since it means that Peregrin Took, aka Pippin, is actually French. And why wouldn't he be? His namesake is rather famously French, or at least Frankish!

Spoiler: About Pippin the Short ...

Show

Pippin III, also spelled Pepin, byname Pippin the Short, French Pépin le Bref, German Pippin der Kurze, (born c. 714—died September 24, 768, Saint-Denis, Neustria [now in France]), the first king of the Frankish Carolingian dynasty and the father of Charlemagne. A son of Charles Martel, Pippin became sole de facto ruler of the Franks in 747 and then, on the deposition of Childeric III in 751, king of the Franks. He was the first Frankish king to be anointed—first by St. Boniface and later (754) by Pope Stephen II.

Strider and the rangers had spent years guarding The Shire. They used Bree, a mixed community of halflings and men, as a base. Gandalf specifically tasked Aragorn, who knew Bilbo personally, to keep an eye out for Bilbo's nephew, who might soon be leaving The Shire with trouble chasing him.

Aragorn knew about second breakfast.

And simply answered no, by using a look of impatience and moving on.

[faustin]

Strider and the rangers had spent years guarding The Shire. They used Bree, a mixed community of halflings and men, as a base. Gandalf specifically tasked Aragorn, who knew Bilbo personally, to keep an eye out for Bilbo's nephew, who might soon be leaving The Shire with trouble chasing him.

Aragorn knew about second breakfast.

So, the scene is literally about middle class British men used to comfy lives and not having a clue about the rigours of a ranger life.