Willow on Disney+

[Palanan]

Made it about thirty minutes into the first episode.

Not quite sure who this is pitched for. So far it’s been a rather bland, frothy, cartoonish teen drama in a highly generic medieval setting.

Spoiler

Show

Spoiled young princess runs away from royal obligation to find adventure and herself. Not the most compelling concept, and thus far not the most compelling character.

I never realized it was Joanne Whalley in the original Willow, but then I only saw the movie once and wasn’t impressed. Likewise not impressed with this. The first few minutes were okay-ish, and Joanne Whalley can play a driven royal matriarch in her sleep, but the shallow teen drama quickly becomes a slog.

Coming so soon after the unexpected splendor and power of Andor, I was quietly hoping they might pull off something similar for a fantasy property, especially one that’s relatively obscure and unexplored. Sadly no hint of that here. At some point I may swing around for another attempt at finishing the first episode, but for the moment I’m not really motivated to continue. Wouldn't mind hearing that it picks up gloriously from someone who made it further.

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[animorte]

Not quite sure who this is pitched for. So far it’s been a rather bland, frothy, cartoonish teen drama in a highly generic medieval setting.

I doubt that will discourage me so rapidly. Warwick Davis in the trailers was absolutely gorgeous.

Wouldn't mind hearing that it picks up gloriously from someone who made it further.

I’m sure others will get to it before myself, but I’m sure I’ll contribute when I’ve had time to watch it.

I didn’t read your spoiler.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by animorte
I’m sure others will get to it before myself, but I’m sure I’ll contribute when I’ve had time to watch it.

Looking forward to hearing what you think. I have a couple extra comments, but will hold off for now.

And yes, it's Joanne Whalley, rather than the embarrassing typo I made (twice) in the spoilered comments.

[KorvinStarmast]

And yes, it's Joanne Whalley, rather than the embarrassing typo I made (twice) in the spoilered comments.

I recall seeing her some years later in The Man Who Knew Too little and it took a moment to realize "hey, that's Sorsha!"

[Kyberwulf]

"I was expecting something more grand... something less.....Fuzzy."


I would like to point out, this is what you get when you stop watching something 30 minutes into the episode. Its not a spoiled little princess running away adventure.

I have watched the first episode and part of the second. So far..

This seems to not know who the show is made for. It seems like an episode of a Preteen disney show.. but with fantasy style setting. Its not bad.. its just not.. good either. I want to say its nothing like the original. But then.. It was just one movie, and it didn't really have any lore in it. So it comes off as .. Generic. Like they just took some larp-ers and a renaissance faire location and just shot some scenes.

One of the things I have noticed is they don't seem to take it serious. Not like. "We are going to win academy awards Serious." Just not as serious as the original cast seemed to take it, Like they did one or two takes of it, called it good. The wardrobe said, hey this looks stylish lets add some dirt, but not to much we don't want to have to make to many clothes. The fx team was like... Hey should we add in some smoke and fog to give it ambiance, and the director was like.. nah lunch is in 20 lets just use the broad daylight.

I think that's what the show is missing so far. The movie had a darker more atmospheric lived in feel to it. The characters all looked like they lived in their clothes and used their gear to some extent. The actors looked like they spent time.. like real life time living a crappy life to get some of the shots.

So I guess, thats my take of it. It feels like people came in, said their lines, Pointed their cameras, and said stand here. Did their 8 hours a day, and then went home. Whereas in the Movie, they came together and said, Let's make a movie.

[Murk]

a Preteen disney show.. but with fantasy style setting.

Honestly, "typical preteen Disney fans with tentative interest in fantasy" sounds like a great target audience. There are a lot of preteen Disney fans and the number of fantasy shows made specifically for them is relatively small.

I can't judge whether or not they actually succeeded in making a show for that target audience, because I'm not a preteen Disney fan nor have I actually watched this show yet.

[Talakeal]

So far this is... not good.

The costumes and dialogue are far too casual and too modern, and the plot and world building don't quite fit in with the original.

I love Willow, but this is pretty disappointing. Its really sad when a saphic love story involving Erin Kellyman and Ruby Cruz can't hold my interest.

And of course, Madmartigan was the best part of the original, and his absence really hurts, and its hard to watch without being depressed about Val Kilmer's illness.


On a side not, did anyone notice if any of the original actors returned besides Warwick Davis and Joanne Whatley? I was looking, but it was hard to tell. Is the Nelwyn who pretends to be Willow at first someone from the original? He seems familiar, but I didn't ever catch his name.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Talakeal
So far this is... not good.

That was my strong impression from what I managed to get through.

Hip modern dialogue in fantasy especially irks me, and there were some glaring examples here.

[KorvinStarmast]

On a side not, did anyone notice if any of the original actors returned besides Warwick Davis and Joanne Whatley?

That's Joanne Whalley

Spoiler: spoiler

Show

(Wife and I recently watched a movie about Val Kilmer, his Mark Twain tour, and his career ending medical problems. She and he had married and raised two children with. We learned that sadly their marriage had broken up a few years back. )

[TheSummoner]

So far this is... not good.

I'll echo this sentiment. I don't expect much from Disney given their track record, but it's still disappointing to see them dig up the corpse of something people once enjoyed to try to milk it for nostalgia. It's not as bad as some other shows that've come out recently, but it's still incredibly middling at best.

It's been a while since I saw the original Willow, but I remember Warwick Davis being better in it than he is here. It really seems like he's phoning it in. I understand that they couldn't feasibly have Val Kilmer reprise his role given his medical issues, but it annoys me that they seem to be going the Han Solo route with him. There seems to be more to it under the surface, but it still rubs me the wrong way. Either recasting him or just saying he died doing something heroic time between the movie and series would've been better. Don't belittle the character by describing him as "an impossibly conceited thief, liar, and rogue." Yes, he started at that way, but he grew and developed over the course of the original adventure.

As far as characterization goes, it's a mixed bag. Elora and Boorman I like, and with Elora and Graydon I see seeds of what could be good character arcs - her learning to use her power and him developing a backbone. Jade is just bland. Kit is insufferable. She's not Galadriel from Rings of Power bad, and the show has the awareness to both occasionally acknowledge how entitled she acts and point out that she's not as good as she thinks she is, but it's not a good way to characterize who seems to be the main character of the ensemble cast. And yes, I realize they're (at least hopefully) setting up an arc for her where she can learn some humility, but I still think it's a poor choice of arc for the main character and it would work much better for a supporting character.

But by far, the biggest issue I have is that the characters don't feel like they belong in this world. The way they speak and act, most of them feel like characters from the modern day dropped into a fantasy setting rather than characters who have lived their entire lives there.

[Palanan]

I tried jumping ahead to the third episode, just to see if the quality dramatically improves.

This time I made it to 35 minutes. It’s really, really bad. It’s like they took all the goofy nonsense of the silliest 80s fantasy, but forgot to include anything resembling fun.



Erin Kellyman is sleepwalking through this. She’s shown us that she’s capable of more, but she just doesn’t have much to work with here. Meanwhile, someone should tell the ex-princess that there are things called acting classes, and she might want to sit in on a few of those. This should have been done before filming began, because she doesn’t seem to have heard of them. At all.

Much of the dialogue is eye-rollingly bad, both the writing and especially the delivery. (Princess.) In some places the dialogue is word-for-word predictable, without even an attempt at improving the clichés. This is one reason why Warwick Davis is disappointing here, because his lines are garbage.

There are several big swordfight scenes, but the fight choreography…isn’t. The actors (or at least the people in costumes) are just flailing their swords around in great wild sweeps, obviously with zero skill—and yet somehow they’re managing to parry the strikes of supernaturally possessed soldiers who are literally splitting trees open. It’s like a bunch of college kids got some costumes, found a misty place in the woods and just swung around for a while.

The final fight scene—or at least the drawn-out, overly dramatic scene around the 30-35 minute mark—is both highly contrived and so visually dark that it’s unpleasant to watch. Somewhere in there is supposed to be a major struggle for Willow, as well as a bit of silly humor, but the “struggle” is absurd and contrived, and the “humor” just falls flat.

Worst of all—I simply don’t care about any of the characters. Most of them are barely characters at all, just one-dimensional collections of lines. As noted above, most of those lines are too modern-day to be convincing, especially when characters are complaining that “This sucks!” (Actual line from a supposedly high-fantasy setting.) This show isn’t even a well-intentioned misfire; it’s just the fantasy equivalent of wet cardboard, and a thoroughly wasted opportunity.

[t209]

So I guess the novel series isn't that bad by comparison then?

[The Patterner]

I have only seen the two first episodes so still a bit early to tell how everything will develop. But overall I like it, it feels like a light hearted fantasy and I think there is a need for that.

Good things:
- Boorman is cool.
- Elora, I like the character and that they did the reveal early on and not just draged it out.
- Graydon, interesting character with room for growth.
- Queen Sorsha, she really feels like a natural eveolution from the movie.

Bad things
- The princess... I hate her. The only good thing I can say is that I like how she is constantly treated as the spoiled brat she is.
- Willow, his acting is not what I'd hoped it would be. Many lines felt very forced and scripted.
- The world, it feels very small and underdeveloped (just two episodes in so a lot can change).
- Fight scenes were kinda meh.

Neutral things
- The bad guys, look kinda cool, but also kinda generic. We will see.
- The lines, some are great and other are horrible.
- Agree with some of the comments about the lines feeling to modern, but also disagree because none of us speaks Ye olde english. I think this is somewhat due to people being used to english accents rather than just the lines being bad.
- The kidnapped prince, room for nice character development, depends a lot on how he acts once he get back in the show.
- Jade, might become a nice contrast to the spoiled brat of a royalty. But has no real personality yet.

So yeah, overall I like it, but it can really go either way as of right now.

[Noldo]

Two episodes in, I will most likely watch it through but I am not overly amazed by the show.

Thought that the aesthetics had very fairytalish vibe, especially in the sense that everything is very clean (and kinda modernish). No gritty and dirty work that we have gotten used to in GoT.

I was hoping that the world beyond the barrier would have been a bit more worn out, it would have created a strong contrast between the safe, protected and clean city and emphasized the “fairytale feel” of the start.

[The Patterner]

I was hoping that the world beyond the barrier would have been a bit more worn out, it would have created a strong contrast between the safe, protected and clean city and emphasized the “fairytale feel” of the start.

This is a really good point, it would also have made the world seem more real in a sense.

I'm I the only one who was hoping that Elora wouldn't be able to use magic cause that's not why she is the chosen one?

[KorvinStarmast]

Some years ago, I read three books by Chris Claremont / George Lucas: Shadow Moon, Shadow Dawn, Shadow Star.
I liked them.
Is this what the series is based on?

[Wintermoot]

Some years ago, I read three books by Chris Claremont / George Lucas: Shadow Moon, Shadow Dawn, Shadow Star.
I liked them.
Is this what the series is based on?

No. This is unrelated to the Claremont series.

[t209]

No. This is unrelated to the Claremont series.

Now, I think they should adapted it but fix many of its issues.

[Telonius]

I've watched it up to episode 3 so far. I think I see what they're trying to do with Princess Kit; taking the whole "angry at absent father" thing a bit too far, but I'm expecting she'll come around to character growth and "realizes she's really not all that different from him" at the end. (Started out as an insufferable spoiled brat, great swordsman, thing for redheads...). I hate the character, but we'll see if the actor has the skill to sell the change.

First couple episodes, it did seem a bit wobbly. It almost seems like they had to split time between making enough references to the original and pushing the new plot forward, and they're not sure how serious they're all going to take it. Warwick Davis is erring a bit on the "more serious" side. I get that his character's role is the adult in charge, but it's honestly reminding me a bit of some of those Kevin Costner movies where he's the only one who doesn't seem to know how silly it is. He's loosened up a little bit in episode 3; hoping that it's moving more in that direction. But [redacted event] in the episode might set him back a bit.

Very much interested in how they're going to take Graydon's character. Tied with Jade for "most likeable," but with a lot more room for a growth arc.

My "(just-barely-teen) Disney fan with tentative interest in fantasy" seems to like it so far. (She loved the original). She's declared that Boorman's name is actually Bruno. For Elora: "Duh, she's already casting magic without knowing it."

[The Patterner]

I've watched it up to episode 3 so far. I think I see what they're trying to do with Princess Kit; taking the whole "angry at absent father" thing a bit too far, but I'm expecting she'll come around to character growth and "realizes she's really not all that different from him" at the end. (Started out as an insufferable spoiled brat, great swordsman, thing for redheads...). I hate the character, but we'll see if the actor has the skill to sell the change.

I'd honestly love if they went the other direction and set her up to be a new Bavmorda type villain. Have it turn out that the kidnapped prince is a pretty nice guy, while the princess who dreamed of adventure is tempted over to the dark side. The groundwork is there already.

[Maelstrom]

Yeah...I've tried...then tried again, but no. I'm just going to have to say that I'm obviously not in the demographic that the showrunners were targeting, I guess. Absolute train wreck on the writing, acting, story, etc.

[KorvinStarmast]

Yeah...I've tried...then tried again, but no. I'm just going to have to say that I'm obviously not in the demographic that the showrunners were targeting, I guess. Absolute train wreck on the writing, acting, story, etc.

If you have not yet seen Critical Drinker's take on this Disney production, you may be amused by his critique. As I do not subscribe to Disney+, I may never get to see this one.

[The Patterner]

If you have not yet seen Critical Drinker's take on this Disney production, you may be amused by his critique. As I do not subscribe to Disney+, I may never get to see this one.

I'm trying really hard to decide what I think of Critical drinker.

He is either someone with the occasional deep insight who is really unsure of himself and therefore hides the insightes behind a borish persona. Or he is someone who think that persona is like the coolest most rad thing ever, and his occasional insights are just pure dumb luck.

The fake sounding accent don't do him any favours either

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by The Patterner
Or he is someone who think that persona is like the coolest most rad thing ever, and his occasional insights are just pure dumb luck.

Pretty sure it’s this. I pay him no mind.

[TheSummoner]

Ooor he's a guy who makes videos on the internet talking about his opinions about movies and shows. Agree with what he says or don't, but it seems like a reach to say he's somehow unsure of himself or putting on a persona and the thing about his accent is particularly baffling given that a glance shows he's been doing his thing pretty regularly for about four and a half years and his voice and style seem fairly consistent.

More on topic
Kit: They wear people's skulls as masks! They're going to kill her!
Also Kit: You (they) can keep Boorman.

I don't get the trend in trying to get the audience to sympathize with utterly awful characters. Kit herself continues to be dreadful, but by the end of the episode it wants us to accept the bonereavers... the people who ambush travelers and wear their skulls... are actually good people who are just misunderstood. I know the characters have forgotten about how these people killed the knight who was close enough to the prince and princess to treat them like his own children, but is the audience also supposed to forget that? Those things we saw with our own eyes was just us being "fed lies about [them]", I guess. "All [they've] ever wanted is [their] freedom" and that is why they have to attack travelers, boil their skulls, and then wear those skulls as masks.

Ok, yeah, that checks out. Makes perfect sense.

[Razade]

The fake sounding accent don't do him any favours either

I know a lot of people don't think Scotland is real, but that's not a fake accent.

[Noldo]

If I had any doubts, the last two episodes (Bonereavers and trolls) have made it absolutely clear that the series does not take itself seriously. There is no other way to explain the chosen approach.

It is still entertainish. But hard to take anything seriously as the whole world is played for laughs.

Whoever said that a take where Kit would pivot towards darkness would be more interesting was right.

[KorvinStarmast]

I'm trying really hard to decide what I think of Critical drinker.

Sometimes on point, sometimes too ranty for my taste, and sometimes amusing.
Mixed bag.
I think that his schtick leans into "emperor has no clothes, can't you see? Here, I'll show you!"
Roger Ebert he ain't.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Noldo
If I had any doubts, the last two episodes (Bonereavers and trolls) have made it absolutely clear that the series does not take itself seriously. There is no other way to explain the chosen approach.

At this point my main concern is what effect this may have on future fantasy projects, either at Disney+ or elsewhere. Executives tend to follow trends without always understanding them, and I’m concerned this will either spawn even worse imitative trash or drive studios away from fantasy altogether.

And I am really not sure what to make of the critics vs. audience divide in the reviews. Almost everyone on the audience side seems to acknowledge it’s corny and ridiculous; some people enjoy this, most of the rest can’t stand it.

But some of the reviewers are talking about it like it’s the greatest thing since great things were invented, and I just can’t see where that’s coming from. My worry is that studios will look at this nonsense and somehow imagine there should be more of it.

.

[HeyHoWhatUpYo]

I'll just leave this here.