[WFRP] The Bloody Crown OOC XV

[LCP]

I agree with rax that if Elsa doesn't want the others to go ahead with other plans before trying to negotiate, she needs to make it clear how she means to negotiate - either by telling them the plan or showing it in practice. The last thing she said for them to go on was "we've nothing to bargain with, do we?" - I think you can take it at this point that if any of the other PCs had any ideas to contribute there they would have spoken up.

Meanwhile, just an IC reminder - this is a tense, dangerous situation with a lot of noise and a lot of potentially dangerous goblins not very far away from your PCs. Even if it's not the plan you'd personally prefer, choosing a plan to follow as a team is probably better than convening the committee for plan discussion on the ravine's edge.

[rax]

I'm open to trying TheSummoner's plan as well, but I will point out that a major point in Bardhyl's plan is to take out the chieftain first. I firmly believe that the goblins are going to be much less effective in every way if their leadership is gone. That may be more difficult right now as he's just been described as moving in amongst the other goblins, but if we play it cool, we may get one more chance of a clear shot at him. If that happens I think it's imperative to have as many of us shooting at him as possible. Bardhyl and his men all have bows and Ludo's got his gun, so that's at least five people shooting at the chieftain, probably with Aim action bonuses as well.

If Elsa can present a plan for how to negotiate while also having a backup plan for escaping if the attempt fails, then Bardhyl is prepared to listen to it.

In short, Bardhyl is all ears IC if someone wants to present a different plan from his own.

[-Sentinel-]

In-character, Elsa's opinion is that rescuing a couple of strangers (be it via violence or diplomacy) isn't worth risking all of us. I'll write a post to that effect right away.

OOC, I don't think we have any chance to bargain for the lives of the prisoners, because we have no meat to trade for the prisoners as an offering to the wyvern. Earlier (before we knew about the prisoners), I was hoping to bargain for just a talk with Wadim, if he is indeed among the goblins. But we don't know even that.

[RossN]

Over the Covid thankfully. To be entirely truthful it could have been far, far worse but it definitely sapped my energy especially coming on the heels of various other ailments. Thanks for the well wishes and glad to be back.

[-Sentinel-]

Over the Covid thankfully. To be entirely truthful it could have been far, far worse but it definitely sapped my energy especially coming on the heels of various other ailments. Thanks for the well wishes and glad to be back.

Glad to have you back!


@ other players except LCP: Please don't act like Elsa's apprentice-level spells are a substitute for a proper plan. We've been playing under LCP long enough to know he's no amateur at the whole GMing thing.

None of Elsa's spells will trigger a wild stampede of goblins tripping over one another to go see what's causing the pretty lights and weird sounds, conveniently clearing us a path to the prisoners. Hell, even Universal Confusion, a spell from the Lore of Shadows with a casting number of 27, wouldn't cause nearly the amount of chaos that TheSummoner and RossN seem to think Elsa can do.

[TheSummoner]

Happy to hear you're feeling better, RossN.

In regards to the current situation, if we're not going to try something why are we even here? For all we know, one of the prisoners might be Wadim and even if not, they probably have information we don't. Is there anything we gain by sitting a bit longer and doing nothing or do we just avoid the risk involved in making an attempt?

If that happens I think it's imperative to have as many of us shooting at him as possible. Bardhyl and his men all have bows and Ludo's got his gun, so that's at least five people shooting at the chieftain, probably with Aim action bonuses as well.

They're not going to scatter from a few arrows. They outnumber us 10 to 1. Trying to win in a straight fight is not going to happen, which is why I say distraction to empty the camp and stealth. For that, I don't think it's strictly necessary to kill the chieftain (just piss him off) and even if it is, it doesn't take five PCs and a handful of NPCs worth of shots to kill a goblin. Two solid hits, three to be safe would be enough. We're got a good height advantage and if we do it right, most likely the benefit of aiming and a surprise round.

None of Elsa's spells will trigger a wild stampede of goblins tripping over one another to go see what's causing the pretty lights and weird sounds, conveniently clearing us a path to the prisoners. Hell, even Universal Confusion, a spell from the Lore of Shadows with a casting number of 27, wouldn't cause nearly the amount of chaos that TheSummoner and RossN seem to think Elsa can do.

A mind game alone wouldn't. Being under direct attack with the mind game making the threat seem bigger than it really is could work. They're not going to sit around and do nothing if one of us puts an arrow/bolt/bullet between their chieftain's eyes. They're going to realize they're going to attack and then it's fight or flight. I doubt it's flight, but if so... Well, we win. If it's fight, then we spend a couple of rounds taking pot shots while they try to regain order and move out to engage and then leg it before they can actually get to us.

[-Sentinel-]

They outnumber us 10 to 1.

Closer to 5 to 1 if we include our NPCs, but that's assuming the wyvern doesn't turn up.

If it does turn up, though, it'll most likely choose to eat the recently dead rather than the living, like any predatory animal. So there's that.

which is why I say distraction to empty the camp and stealth.

I don't know exactly how you picture it in your head, but a distraction will not empty the camp. Especially if the distraction is intended to warn the goblins that their highly-defensible position is about to come under attack. All it does is waste the element of surprise.

Stealth will get us nowhere. We may as well be ogres trying to sneak into a human city that's on high alert.


In-character, though, Elsa needs convincing that the two sacrificial victims are worth risking our lives for.

[TheSummoner]

I picture it in my head that the moment we start shooting arrows at them, they will try to stop us shooting arrows at them. That means coming after us.

[-Sentinel-]

There seems to be a consensus, between the PCs other than Elsa, that we need to do something. Of all the ideas for action proposed so far, I think our best bet is to take out the goblin leader.

But I still don't like it. We're risking a lot to gain very little.


EDIT:

"Well, tie it's mouth then."

That's a full action at the very least. Shouting "Git off me! Git off me! Sumbody help!" is a free action.

[LeSwordfish]

I'd still prefer to confirm where Wadim is before just trying to kill/scatter the gobbos, but killing the chief would probably be a strategic blow against them.

How sure are we that none of the prisoners is Wadim? (Perception vs 68 [(1d100)[49]). How far is the chief? Is he getting cover from the crowd? Is he getting closer or further away as he moves towards the idol? What sneaky trick do you have to protect this npc don't think ive forgotten how mother mala has an agility of like fifty no further questions thanks

[LCP]

The prisoners are very heavily trussed up in rope, so it's difficult to be certain. The most you can say is that you can't see any identifying features that would mark either of them out as being Wadim (e.g. long beard).

Referring back to the sketch, the hollow's roughly forty yards across, and the chief is coming from the curtain (where he's almost the full diameter away from you) to the tree (where he'll only be a half-diameter away from you). There are a lot of goblins gathered round so I'd say he's got some cover, yes - probably just at the level of a -10 penalty to BS since you've got a nice elevated position.

but of course you don't know about his smokebomb squigz

[rax]

@LCP
Had another thought concerning the terrain:

1. How wide/tall is the ravine leading into the hollow? Is it fairly deep/constricted?
2. Is it likely that there would be some shrubs or something at the bottom that could be set on fire? I assume Bardhyl and his men know this kind of terrain well enough to hazard a decent guess even though we haven't actually been down in the ravine.
3. Is there any wind at the moment, and are we fortuitous enough that it's blowing into the hollow from the direction of the ravine?

If the answers to all of the above are yes, then one option for attracting the attention of the goblins and maybe make them send out someone to get a look would be to light something on fire in the ravine and wait for the smoke to blow into the hollow. That way we could get the drop on a few of them, take them out, and take a prisoner.

(One problem with taking just any goblin prisoner is that they typically don't speak Reikspiel - does anyone in the party speak Goblin Tongue? If not, interrogating a captive could be quite difficult)

Also, concerning our knowledge of goblins, would you say that the effects of the Animosity rule would be a known common characteristic of goblins?

[LCP]

At the point where it leads out of the hollow, the ravine is about eight yards wide and six yards deep.

The terrain here isn't a desert - I think I mentioned furze bushes, stunted trees etc. on the way up, and that's still what your surroundings look like. The bottom of the ravine is maybe a bit rockier + more overshadowed than than the surrounding hillside, so vegetation down there would be sparse but not completely absent.

The wind's in the west, which would be blowing from the hollow down the ravine if you didn't have the high peaks up behind as a windbreak. Not much wind therefore at the height you're at.

I think it's pretty common knowledge that greenskins are fractious and squabble-y.

[LeSwordfish]

Now that we know Wadim's working with them, and that an Imminent Wyvern is not likely, we should stay hidden amd waiting for now I think.

[rax]

@LCP
Okay, thanks. The wind direction puts the kibosh on that plan, but clearly it's been overtaken by events anyway.

@LeSwordfish
Or take this opportunity to try and foment an outright battle among them?

Maybe the classic "chuck rocks at one of them and hope he thinks it was someone he really dislikes that did it"? Animosity rules would then force the goblin to pass a WP test or immediately attack whoever he thought was behind it.

Or maybe Elsa could use Sounds to make really rude noises in the middle of one of the speeches? Perhaps a goblin is holding something that would be very painful if it happened to drop on the goblin next to him - a job for the Drop spell?

[LeSwordfish]

If Wadim is working with them, he probably has a reason for it. I think we should sit tight at least a little longer - he might not appreciate us getting a bunch of his unusual allies killed. Heck, wierdly we might even need to take a shot to save Glimrut, if Glimrut's patronage is all that's keeping Wadim alive.

[-Sentinel-]

If Wadim is working with them, he probably has a reason for it. I think we should sit tight at least a little longer - he might not appreciate us getting a bunch of his unusual allies killed. Heck, wierdly we might even need to take a shot to save Glimrut, if Glimrut's patronage is all that's keeping Wadim alive.

I concur. text that you'll highlight just to see what I wrote to pad up the post to the minimum length

[TheSummoner]

I'm of the opinion that the more of them who kill eachother before that happens, the better it is for us. But we don't necessarily need to intervene for that to happen, Sieghard isn't the one with the mimic talent, and it's not a big enough issue to split hairs over. Fine with continuing the wait and see a bit longer if that's what the others want.

[LeSwordfish]

My concern is that Wadim is alive thanks to Glimrut's patronage, and if Glimrut dies, Wadim's protection is gone. I would be happier with encouraging a full-scale fight, except presumably Wadim has his reasons for working with the goblins, and if we want to stay pals with him, we probably don't want to be responsible for getting half of them killed. EDIT: Oh I said the exact same thing a few posts back. Either way, I think if we intercede it should be to try and de-escalate not to escalate. My only specific idea for that is a well-chosen Sounds spell - a wyvern roar?

Is it warhammer lore that goblin language borrows words from Khazalid, or am I misremembering my Tolkien? Would that let Ludo recognise the word "gulnargrot"? (1d100)[98] vs SL: Khazalid or CK: Border Princes at 48 - probably not! i have a guess, though

[LCP]

I don't think that's a Warhammer thing - greenskins probably pilfer plenty of words but their own language is their own.

EDIT: Also, I'm trying to keep my updates to short chunks of time, but as Ludo is watching events closely with a gun in his hand and has a pretty untouchable Initiative score if he chooses to roll it, please do feel free to break in at any point in the narration.

[LeSwordfish]

I imagine this'll be a fairly challenging Perception test, but I'll give it a shot anyway - when Glimrut says "bring back something good", does this sound like bravado? Or does he seem to have something specific in mind? The difference between "trust me guys, this time will be different" and "i know where a particularly juicy target is". (1d100)[87] vs 68 - I guess not!

[LCP]

It doesn't sound like he's promising them some secret treasure - more like he's exhorting them to do better.

[LeSwordfish]

Cool. Sounds like we're back where we were before but we got to watch some good gobbo times while we waited so its all good.

[rax]

Sorry for disappearing everyone, had some stuff to wrap up att work before two days vacation and then...we had non-functioning internet at home yesterday evening.

Glad to see everything worked in the meantime!

[RossN]

Cool. Sounds like we're back where we were before but we got to watch some good gobbo times while we waited so its all good.

Agreed. Forgot how entertaining Warhammer goblins could be. Nice job LCP!

[LeSwordfish]

I'm going to suggest that we stay hidden - our combat skills are many things but silent they are not. I'll take the lead on rolling on that basis, but happy to edit if people feel very strongly otherwise.

(1d100)[82] vs 94, re-roll (1d100)[28] - i'll use the re-roll if I get less than 2 DOS

Yep, so that's a fate point spent for a bucketload of success.

[LCP]

Doubt the gobbos can beat that, but here's a roll anyway: (1d100)[62]

[LeSwordfish]

Wait, are we sneaking or fighting?

[rax]

Sneaking, ambushing, then fighting, is how I envisioned it.

[LeSwordfish]

Okay - Ludo's going first, headed to see if he can get close enough to the curtain to listen in. Stealth: (1d100)[2] vs 74

EDIT: lol