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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Troll in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Critique on an already solid build

    This is an already solid build, I am looking for tips that will put the character over the top. It's a five level build with the goal of creating a battlefield controlling spearman. The current build is a Human Barbarian 1/Fighter 4. Barbarian uses Whirling Frenzy variant. Assume no magic or psionics.

    Abilities:

    STR 18
    DEX 17 (bump to 18 at level 4)
    CON 16
    INT 13
    WIS 12
    CHA 11

    Feats and class features:

    H: Dodge
    1st: Combat Reflexes
    Barb: Whirling Frenzy



    F1: Improved Unarmed Strike
    F2: Combat Expertise
    3rd: Improved Trip
    F4: Defensive Throw
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  2. - Top - End - #2
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Abjurer's Avatar

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    Default Re: Critique on an already solid build

    I assume you'll acquire a mithril breastplate?

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Troll in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Critique on an already solid build

    High on the old list, sure. Up to DM discretion of course.
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    Who Beats Who? the hilariously geeky game of hypothetical battles.

    Who has two thumbs (up) and a board game coming out from Rio Grande? This guy. Gladiators (Rio Grande)

    PIZZA IN SPAAAAACE! Cambridge Games Facotry and Spoiled Flush Games Cosmic Pizza coming soon.

    Matrix Solitaire, likely the best Solitaire game you will ever play.
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  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    dyslexicfaser's Avatar

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    Default Re: Critique on an already solid build

    Is Dodge a prerequisite for something? If not, I'd recommend something like Stand Still, just in case you need to stop your enemies from moving past you.
    People seemed to like this better, but only marginally so - the way one might prefer to be stabbed than shot. Optimally, one isn't stabbed or shot. Optimally, one eats some cake! But there are times when cake is not available, and instead we are destroyed. This is the deep poetry of the universe. -- Tycho Brahe

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  5. - Top - End - #5
    Troll in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Critique on an already solid build

    Dodge is a prereq for defensive throw, which gives me a free trip attempt every time the target of my dodge attacks and does not hit me.
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    Who Beats Who? the hilariously geeky game of hypothetical battles.

    Who has two thumbs (up) and a board game coming out from Rio Grande? This guy. Gladiators (Rio Grande)

    PIZZA IN SPAAAAACE! Cambridge Games Facotry and Spoiled Flush Games Cosmic Pizza coming soon.

    Matrix Solitaire, likely the best Solitaire game you will ever play.
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  6. - Top - End - #6
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Abjurer's Avatar

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    Default Re: Critique on an already solid build

    Make sure you have combat reflexes.
    You'd get a total of five AoO's, assuming they present themselves.

    And if you're wielding a longspear, that's AoO's against charges and stuff.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Devil

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    Default Re: Critique on an already solid build

    I have been curious about builds that utilize reach weapons...do you just rely on the 5' step to get distance back, or do you also use a spiked gauntlet to punch people next to you? Does your DM rule that you can use the butt or haft of the reach weapon as a club/quarterstaff in close combat?

    Can't offer any suggestions...I think your build is pretty solid for what you want to do. 5th level fighter won't help you more than the 1 level of barbarian does, any less fighter and you lose feats...

    Mithril breastplate is a must if possible, maybe mithril chainmail...who knows...

    a buckler might be nice if it won't hinder you too much, you'll of course want a magic weapon...

    'battlefield controlling' seems to indicate that you are going to be fighting lots of humanoids/goblins/etc rather than single large monsters, or monster duo's & trios.

    see if there is anything you can do to help with crowd control...

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Troll in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Critique on an already solid build

    The improved unarmed strike I get at level 2 should let me attack enemies within my spear reach. And yes, it is a crowd control build, tripping and gaining attacks of opportunity on as many enemies as possible. The whirling frenzy nets me an extra attack which helps, plus the extra HP from the barbarian level for improved tanking. Decent armor and the dodge bonus are helpful at the low levels, ditto for combat expertise.
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    Who Beats Who? the hilariously geeky game of hypothetical battles.

    Who has two thumbs (up) and a board game coming out from Rio Grande? This guy. Gladiators (Rio Grande)

    PIZZA IN SPAAAAACE! Cambridge Games Facotry and Spoiled Flush Games Cosmic Pizza coming soon.

    Matrix Solitaire, likely the best Solitaire game you will ever play.
    Spoiled Flush Games

    Twitter... where I talk about game design and beer.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Devil

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    Default Re: Critique on an already solid build

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaurd Juris View Post
    The improved unarmed strike I get at level 2 should let me attack enemies within my spear reach. And yes, it is a crowd control build, tripping and gaining attacks of opportunity on as many enemies as possible. The whirling frenzy nets me an extra attack which helps, plus the extra HP from the barbarian level for improved tanking. Decent armor and the dodge bonus are helpful at the low levels, ditto for combat expertise.
    Oh, perfect...I didn't notice the Imp unarmed strike...use a spiked gauntlet, it counts as a melee weapon...use the feat for something else...hmm...but what...heh...ewp: spiked chain

    hey, it doubles as a close combat solution too...and can be used to disarm at +2 to the check. Also allows tripping.
    Last edited by Fuzzy_Juan; 2007-12-01 at 10:58 PM.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Troll in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Critique on an already solid build

    Improved unarmed strike is also a prereq for the feat-hungry defensive throw.
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    Who Beats Who? the hilariously geeky game of hypothetical battles.

    Who has two thumbs (up) and a board game coming out from Rio Grande? This guy. Gladiators (Rio Grande)

    PIZZA IN SPAAAAACE! Cambridge Games Facotry and Spoiled Flush Games Cosmic Pizza coming soon.

    Matrix Solitaire, likely the best Solitaire game you will ever play.
    Spoiled Flush Games

    Twitter... where I talk about game design and beer.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Devil

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    Default Re: Critique on an already solid build

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaurd Juris View Post
    Improved unarmed strike is also a prereq for the feat-hungry defensive throw.
    aww...ok...heh, just love the spiked chain cheese...

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Critique on an already solid build

    A question. A couple of folks have recommended a mithril breastplate. But the only restriction this character faces is light or medium armor, and the desire to retain his DEX AC bonus.

    If this character passes on his intended DEX stat boost at 4th, then he can wear mithril full plate and enjoy 3 more AC from armor, while only losing 1 AC from DEX. A net bonus of 2 AC seems worthwhile, and the stat point can be spent elsewhere.
    --
    Cheers,
    Kompera

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Troll in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Critique on an already solid build

    A valid point, but the character also needs the dex for extra attacks of opportunity via combat reflexes. Given his trip build, he'll be making a lot of them. Also, the ability increase would only make a numerical difference in Dex, Cha and Int, and this character does not need skills to be effective.
    Last edited by Human Paragon 3; 2007-12-03 at 01:42 AM.
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    Who Beats Who? the hilariously geeky game of hypothetical battles.

    Who has two thumbs (up) and a board game coming out from Rio Grande? This guy. Gladiators (Rio Grande)

    PIZZA IN SPAAAAACE! Cambridge Games Facotry and Spoiled Flush Games Cosmic Pizza coming soon.

    Matrix Solitaire, likely the best Solitaire game you will ever play.
    Spoiled Flush Games

    Twitter... where I talk about game design and beer.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    daggaz's Avatar

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    Default Re: Critique on an already solid build

    Quote Originally Posted by Kompera View Post
    A question. A couple of folks have recommended a mithril breastplate. But the only restriction this character faces is light or medium armor, and the desire to retain his DEX AC bonus.

    If this character passes on his intended DEX stat boost at 4th, then he can wear mithril full plate and enjoy 3 more AC from armor, while only losing 1 AC from DEX. A net bonus of 2 AC seems worthwhile, and the stat point can be spent elsewhere.
    Mithril full plate is expensive as well, tho, and the character might not see a suit for quite some time. Also that extra point in his dex modifier equals an extra AoO!, better dex skills, and a higher initiative. Even if he does eventually wear FullPlate and cant use it for AC.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Yakk's Avatar

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    Default Re: Critique on an already solid build

    And heavy mithril cuts 10' off your movement, while medium mithril doesn't. :)

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Critique on an already solid build

    Quote Originally Posted by daggaz View Post
    Mithril full plate is expensive as well, tho, and the character might not see a suit for quite some time. Also that extra point in his dex modifier equals an extra AoO!, better dex skills, and a higher initiative. Even if he does eventually wear FullPlate and cant use it for AC.
    The cost and Initiative are balancing factors, as well as the movement speed noted by Yakk. But the AoO? My current character is fairly similar to the subject character, 17 DEX and Combat Reflexes, Spiked Chain wielder looking to provide battleground control for the group. You want to know how many times I've gotten more than a single AoO? You know, as in more than the one which everyone including the Wizard with the 8 DEX gets? Zero times. The Feat has been worth exactly nothing to me, and I'm considering asking to train out of it due to this fact.
    --
    Cheers,
    Kompera

  17. - Top - End - #17
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    BlueWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Critique on an already solid build

    I'm curious as to why you're using spear as your primary weapon, since you can't trip with it. Are you avoiding guisarme for character reasons?
    Despair favours the status quo. It is a luxury we cannot afford. ~ Andrew Nikiforuk

  18. - Top - End - #18
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    Nebo_'s Avatar

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    Default Re: Critique on an already solid build

    As long as you have combat expertise, pick up Karmic Strike. With Defensive throw he provokes a trip if he misses you and with karmic strike he provokes an AoO if he hits you - win/win.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Critique on an already solid build

    Would you consider making him a changeling instead? You could get the shapeshifter subtype so you can access the Warshaper PRC and double your reach. One less feat though.
    My mother says: those on fire should roll.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Troll in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Critique on an already solid build

    Quote Originally Posted by Toliudar View Post
    I'm curious as to why you're using spear as your primary weapon, since you can't trip with it. Are you avoiding guisarme for character reasons?
    I will be using a guissarme, actually. Spearman just sounds better to my ears.

    Karmic strike would be nice... I'd have to take a flaw to get it though. I'll think about it.
    Last edited by Human Paragon 3; 2007-12-03 at 04:45 PM.
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    Who Beats Who? the hilariously geeky game of hypothetical battles.

    Who has two thumbs (up) and a board game coming out from Rio Grande? This guy. Gladiators (Rio Grande)

    PIZZA IN SPAAAAACE! Cambridge Games Facotry and Spoiled Flush Games Cosmic Pizza coming soon.

    Matrix Solitaire, likely the best Solitaire game you will ever play.
    Spoiled Flush Games

    Twitter... where I talk about game design and beer.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Person_Man's Avatar

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    Default Re: Critique on an already solid build

    I think Dodge + Improved Unarmed Strike + Defensive Throw is a bit of a waste.

    Instead, consider using any two handed reach weapon and Knock-Down. That frees up two feats for better things (Combat Reflexes, Power Attack or Hold the Line) and gives you superior battlefield control.

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