Just horsing around

[herrhauptmann]

Me and a buddy are bored with trying to get our normal group together, so we decided to just run little random fights ourselves. I'm going to use a 7wiz/4loremaster and I told him to take whatever he wanted, ECL 13. Initially he thought of dwarven barbarian, but just today noticed half-ogre in Races of Destiny.
Any suggestions on optimal builds for him to use?

[AstralFire]

I'm gonna have to go with Crusader for a basic class to start with, provided he's willing to put a few points in Charisma and/or Int. Delayed damage is nice, heavy armor deals with his bad dex, and the Crusader's all about smacking dudes hard while getting hit themselves.

Interestingly, if you applied the Primordial Template, you'd end up with:

+2 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Int, +2 Cha

Which could probably be used fairly well by a Paladin, Crusader or Warblade.

[brian c]

If anything is allowed, I'd get the Half-Ogre into Fighter or Barbarian, then War Hulk (Miniatures Handbook). It may be the only D&D class not to advance BAB, but it gives +2 Str every single level (making up for the attack bonus) and has great abilities to hit multiple opponents with one swing. It does pigeonhole you as a dumb smash-n-bash fighter, but damn you can hit things hard

Edit: Btw, to meet War Hulk prereqs you need I think 5 or 6 class levels, so you'd get in about 5 of the PrC by ECL13. Also, since Half-Ogres have Large size and improved reach, a reach weapon such as a spiked chain is awesome to use, especially since War Hulk special attacks can target everyone that you threaten, so everyone at all within 20 feet can get hit. If you go Barb/War Hulk, should have about 36-40 strength when raging (although Fighter would make it easier to use spiked chain, bonus feats and all)

[Toliudar]

Cleric 13 with the Divine Metacheese build?

[Talic]

War Hulk is typically used with Hulking Hurler builds for real ouchie ability.

[Lupus Major]

If it's just about winning single melee fights: Frenzied Berserker is the PrC of choice. With Half-Ogre Barb 1, Ftr. 2, Knight 3, FrB 5 and a spiked chain you have 15-17 rounds of relative immortality, obscene damage and to-hit as well as the ability to keep almost everyone in your range. Once per day.

Of course, a Knight/FrB is not everyone's favourite combination ;)

If it's about adventuring with two chars, I'd have to recommend a cleric as well. He can both tank and heal, while you are the main caster and substitute rogue.

[Roderick_BR]

I'm gonna have to go with Crusader for a basic class to start with, provided he's willing to put a few points in Charisma and/or Int. Delayed damage is nice, heavy armor deals with his bad dex, and the Crusader's all about smacking dudes hard while getting hit themselves.

Interestingly, if you applied the Primordial Template, you'd end up with:

+2 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Int, +2 Cha

Which could probably be used fairly well by a Paladin, Crusader or Warblade.

What is primordial template, in which book is it? It's only for half-ogres, or I can use it in other races?

[Nebo_]

Primordial Giant is from Secrets of Xen'drik. You lose physical stats for big increases to Int and Cha and some SLAs. It can only be applied to giants and works great with the half giant. +0 LA.

[AstralFire]

What is primordial template, in which book is it? It's only for half-ogres, or I can use it in other races?

It works on any giant. As someone else noted, it actually works really well with Half-Giants; applying it to Half-Ogres is a bit suboptimal, I'd really drop them to a +1 LA, but the idea of a brilliant Half-Ogre amused me.

[brian c]

It works on any giant. As someone else noted, it actually works really well with Half-Giants; applying it to Half-Ogres is a bit suboptimal, I'd really drop them to a +1 LA, but the idea of a brilliant Half-Ogre amused me.

Half-Ogres were published with +1 LA in Savage Species, but like many other things in that book were a bit unbalanced. Their real value is somewhere between +1 and +2, kinda like how hobgoblins are not quite +1 but not quite 0 LA.

[AstralFire]

Half-Ogres were published with +1 LA in Savage Species, but like many other things in that book were a bit unbalanced. Their real value is somewhere between +1 and +2, kinda like how hobgoblins are not quite +1 but not quite 0 LA.

I meant that I'd drop a Primordial Half-Ogre to +1. LA in general is kind of a wonky system, and I'm glad it's gone in 4E. Now I just have to hope the exponential Armor/Weapon system undergoes an edit, or that a few more things are not given an equivalent enhancement bonus score.

[herrhauptmann]

Primordial. Gives +2 Str, Int and Cha, with a -2 Dex right?
Plus half ogres already get +6 Str,+2 Con, -2 Int, Cha right? I'd say keep the +2 LA, because primordial just seems to negate a bunch of the negatives of hte half=ogre race.

But war hulk and hulking hurler, I'll tell him about it. Thanks guys

[AstralFire]

Primordial. Gives +2 Str, Int and Cha, with a -2 Dex right?
Plus half ogres already get +6 Str,+2 Con, -2 Int, Cha right? I'd say keep the +2 LA, because primordial just seems to negate a bunch of the negatives of hte half=ogre race.

But war hulk and hulking hurler, I'll tell him about it. Thanks guys

Primordial is -4 Str, -2 Con, +4 Int, +4 Cha.

Half-Ogre is +6 Str, +2 Con, -2 Dex, -2 Int, -2 Cha.

Together, it's +2 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Int and Cha. You end up with a good candidate for heavy armor gishing, basically. If the LA was dropped to +1, you could totally get away with a Paladin/Sorcerer or Warmage-->Spellsword.

[herrhauptmann]

Ahh, I thought those were the mods for the primordial template. Not after it...
I see how it all fits now