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    Librarian in the Playground Moderator
     
    LibraryOgre's Avatar

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    Default Foreshortening and 4e

    So, I'm cold, so I'm thinking about things in a vain attempt to keep my head warm. And one of the things I'm thinking about is 4e.

    So, for 3e, there was an idea called "E6", where you played 3e pretty much like normal, but you stopped gaining levels at level 6. Beyond that, you got a feat every x XP. This resulted in much simpler builds and was designed to hit and stick to the "sweet spot" of the game. Variants, like E10, were also suggested, but E6 was the original, to my knowledge. (I did one for Star Wars Saga edition called H1, where you were always a 1st level character)

    If you were to do that to 4e, where would you stick your E? What would be the point where people stopped gaining levels, and advancing was now down to magic items and feats?
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  2. - Top - End - #2
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Foreshortening and 4e

    Probably 10th level, or 11th if you want to unlock a paragon path. Personally, I would go for E10; paragon feats are mandatory to catch up with the math, since +2 to attack and saves is significant in a way that a +1 isn't. Also, if you are getting only the initial bonus from a paragon path, some of them would be much stronger than others, so the thematic choice wouldn't hold.

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    Titan in the Playground
     
    Vhaidara's Avatar

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    Default Re: Foreshortening and 4e

    The clean breakpoints I see are
    5: Second Daily
    7: Third Encounter
    9: Third Daily
    10: End of Heroic
    11: Entry to paragon, "Name" level with the Name being your Paragon Path
    16: Final feature of your Paragon Path, and sometimes the main draw of a path (like Malec-Keth Jannisary)
    20: End of Paragon
    21: Entry to Epic

    Another option that might be decent for the E11 version would be feats after acquiring a certain number of bonus feats that allow you to get your U12, F16, and maybe even D20. That would probably be my preferred break point, since 11 gives you a lot of (usually) interesting build and tactical options, with the F11, E11, and your AP feature, while U12, F16, and D20 are a lot less commonly game changers, but can still be very interesting.
    I follow a general rule: better to ask and be told no than not to ask at all.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Foreshortening and 4e

    I'm tempted to say "E16", partly because harking to E6 is nice, but mainly because Paragon Paths are such a huge part of 4e to me. That said, it doesn't cleanly follow the E6 ethos of keeping things simple - for that, I suppose E10 is the cleanest break.
    I have read a fiery gospel writ in burnished rows of steel

    Former DM for "A City Alone" [4E D&D - IC, OOC]

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Foreshortening and 4e

    I'd be a bit inclined to go E1
    You've got your 1D, 1E and 2 AW plus features, talents, race and background. So by D&D standards quite a few options for a starting character.
    But not enough to cause anyone to have to think too hard
    And HP are high enough without bloating, the math hasn't gone "off" yet, it all still fits on a single page with equipment on the back and the feat list is more manageable without paragon or epic
    I love playing in a party with a couple of power-gamers, it frees me up to be Elan!


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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    tcrudisi's Avatar

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    Default Re: Foreshortening and 4e

    I would do level 7. The 3rd encounter power really helps give a lot more choices and it gives you enough other abilities to be fun. I always found level 7 to be a very build-defining level, anyway. Except for Sorcerer, I feel like most every other class got a build-defining power at level 7.
    Thank you Ceika for the wonderful Avatar avatar!

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ahyangyi's Avatar

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    Default Re: Foreshortening and 4e

    Level 10, 20 and 30 will be my preferred options, for obvious reasons.

    30 is no longer foreshortening, of course, but it more or less still plays like E6 was meant to.
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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Dec 2013

    Default Re: Foreshortening and 4e

    Quote Originally Posted by LibraryOgre View Post
    So, I'm cold, so I'm thinking about things in a vain attempt to keep my head warm. And one of the things I'm thinking about is 4e.

    So, for 3e, there was an idea called "E6", where you played 3e pretty much like normal, but you stopped gaining levels at level 6. Beyond that, you got a feat every x XP. This resulted in much simpler builds and was designed to hit and stick to the "sweet spot" of the game. Variants, like E10, were also suggested, but E6 was the original, to my knowledge. (I did one for Star Wars Saga edition called H1, where you were always a 1st level character)

    If you were to do that to 4e, where would you stick your E? What would be the point where people stopped gaining levels, and advancing was now down to magic items and feats?
    I would just go to E10. IME at paragon levels, the number of reaction attack powers get obnoxious. (There's probably a few heroic-level offenders in 4e, but I'm not too familiar with many later 4e classes/splats.)

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