Let's Read: The Han Solo Adventures (1979)

[Keltest]

I tend to agree, though I think you could also use it as basically a bonded courier, carrying high value, small cargos/personnel. But there really ought to be better ships for that...

Its fast, seemingly well armed, and sturdy. If you wanted to haul gemstones or something equally valuable for its volume, I can think of worse ships.

[Peelee]

Not that I disagree with the overall point, but commercial pickup trucks like the ones youre describing usually operate locally. We have better tools for hauling heavy equipment from Seattle to Phoenix, for example, and thats something that doesnt map well to interplanetary distances.

Pendell has already conceded the point on operating in less developed areas that dont have the infrastructure to support massive trade vehicles, so I dont think theres much point in pressing this specific train of thought when its already fairly weak at the seams.

Except Han Solo isn't a space plumber or a space contractor or a space handyman. His supposed cover story is he's a freight hauler. Someone who's entire shtick is moving cargo (freight) from point A to point B.

I don't think you're going to find many people who would say "the F-150 is a great option" for that.

Likewise the "light freighter" that the Falcon is built on, is a terrible choice for hauling freight full-stop. It's cargo space is minimal. How anyone ever thought "this is a good design for a light freighter" is ridiculous, which is the point being made.

The smallest terrestial vehicle you might want to compare his job to is an 18-wheeler, which is a small tractor hauling a cargo container three to four times it's length. That's what a space "light freighter" should theoretically compare to.

It's okay to admit that the falcon is a failure of a design for what it was intended for. It's still wicked cool.

Ok, but all of that is beside the point. The point in question:

Aside: What is even the stock YT-1300 good for except smuggling?

Now, to the totality of Pendell's replies so far, I must agree that he is correct. I concede that if you remove non-commercial ownership and focus only on commercial use, and then further remove all legitimate commercial use, then yes, a stock YT-1300 is not good for anything except smuggling.

[Keltest]

Ok, but all of that is beside the point. The point in question:
Now, to the totality of Pendell's replies so far, I must agree that he is correct. I concede that if you remove non-commercial ownership and focus only on commercial use, and then further remove all legitimate commercial use, then yes, a stock YT-1300 is not good for anything except smuggling.

I mean, youre trying to suggest that it would be used as a replacement for local non-space-capable cargo storage, which I have to question the use of the word "legitimate" for. Its hideously overengineered and almost certainly impractically expensive and unwieldy for the kind of work youre suggesting it would be used for. You could physically do it, I guess, but I dont think anybody would ever sign off on that.

[Peelee]

I mean, youre trying to suggest that it would be used as a replacement for local non-space-capable cargo storage, which I have to question the use of the word "legitimate" for. Its hideously overengineered and almost certainly impractically expensive and unwieldy for the kind of work youre suggesting it would be used for. You could physically do it, I guess, but I dont think anybody would ever sign off on that.

Over-engineered and impractically expensive? It's one of the smallest ships we see that's not a starfighter or single-person transport. Han even claims he's made "special modifications" himself. What is over-engineered and overly expensive about the stock model?

Further, I'm not suggesting that at all. I'm suggesting that the notion of it's mere existence means it absolutely must have no purpose other than smuggling is patently ridiculous. That's it. That is the entirety of my suggestion. Everything I have said goes back to that one proposition.

[Keltest]

Over-engineered and impractically expensive? It's one of the smallest ships we see that's not a starfighter or single-person transport. Han even claims he's made "special modifications" himself. What is over-engineered and overly expensive about the stock model?

Further, I'm not suggesting that at all. I'm suggesting that the notion of it's mere existence means it absolutely must have no purpose other than smuggling is patently ridiculous. That's it. That is the entirety of my suggestion. Everything I have said goes back to that one proposition.

Well, for starters, its a space ship doing, per your suggestion, the job of a landspeeder (or the truck equivalent.) It really wouldnt need to even be able to leave atmosphere, or enter hyperspace.

And I dont think youre correctly assessing Pendell's question either. He pointed out that it has limited cargo space for its purported design job. Its a reasonable question. Your counterargument was that it could haul things locally and still be commercial, but that doesnt hold up very well IMO.

[Fyraltari]

Actually..

Spoiler

Show

He did. In Second Foundation. He confronted the First Speaker of the second foundation, who also had psychic powers. The Mule was distracted for a moment and promptly brainwashed; he returned to his capital a very different person and ruled for several years as a benevolent dictator before dying of a mutation; the dead hand of Hari Seldon's plan resumed its progress towards re-creating a second Galactic Empire -- until the events of Foundation's Edge resulted in the plan being altered too attempt something much more ambitious.

Spoiler: No, no...

Show

Falling into someone's trap is not the same as finding them. Tazenda and Rossem were nowhere near the SF's actual base.

Sabador quickly reaches a conclusion about this scruffy-looking duo, and tells them he's not in the market to buy a Wookie; wookies' are intelligent creatures, a pet store can't buy them.

As an aside, it appears the Corporate Sector isn't completely fallen to evil, as they still outlaw wookie slaves. Which is ironic, given the Empire definitely enslaves wookies on their home planet of Kasshyk. But it's illegal to buy or sell or trade them here. Lingering Republic influence maybe?

From your description, it looks like people walking in to sell him Wookiees is a commone enough occurence for him to assume that's what Han wanted, meaning that enslaved Wookiees aren't a suprising sight on this planet. So it'd be legal, but he isn't in the business of selling people. Either because of morals or because, keeping a Wookiee prisoner takes a lot of effort. But maybe the actual text is clearer on the issue.

The espo sergeant shakes his head; the regulations have been updated. Just on surface inspection, the ship has 1) lift-to-mass ratio and armaments more in-line with a military ship 2) thruster customization for greater speed which removed a lot of the safety radiation shielding. 3) Irregular docking tackle. 4) Augmented defense shields 5) Heavy duty acceleration compensators and 6) Long-range detection gear. "That's some firecracker you've got there", the sarge concludes, noting she's out of spec and not on the Waivers list which would allow her to have any of it.

What happened to the Falcon looking like a piece of junk? Or is the idea that Han is going to purposefully make her look worse than she is to avoid this kind of things in the future?

Aside: What is even the stock YT-1300 good for except smuggling? Freighters in the Star Wars expanded universe are often just huge containers with an engine bolted on one end of the chain and a cockpit on the other, and they're small potatoes compared to the Guild Heighliners of the Dune Universe. The Millenium Falcon doesn't have that much more carrying capacity than a modern passenger aircraft; that implies a small cargo, therefore either very valuable or very perishable; a courier or a smuggler. Not a freighter, any more than you would try to deliver crates in a Honda Civic.

I've wondered the same thing.

Spoiler: There's really not much room for cargo in there

Show

Of course, the real reason is that Lucas thought Valérian and Laureline's ship looked hella cool.

Spoiler: Because it does

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And copied the general design for his smuggler's ship. The fact that this ship's purpose is to carry a small team from one time-and-place to another while that ship's is to carry cargo notwithstanding.

Trapped as he is, Solo hands over the box anyway, telling Ploovo it's his payment, with interest. The box is opened and suddenly THIS comes jumping out



A Dinko . Described in book as "temperament came close to psychopathy; One of the mysteries of the zoological world was how the little terrors tolerated each other long enough to reproduce; small enough to fit in a man's palm ... powerful rear legs moved constantly, and the twin pairs of grasping extremities on its chest pinched the air, longing for something upon which to fasten. It's long tongue flickered in and out between wicked, glittery fangs."

Lovely.

CANON NOTE: This isn't the last time we're going to see Dinkos in Legends; according to the wiki I just linked Palpatine used them to train Darth Maul; the trauma is partly what made him such a taciturn, expressionless being. It also explains the market for them; if they're good enough for the Emperor, surely they're good enough for all of the Empire's upper crust!

I doubt Sidious is very open about what he does in his secret Sith facilities.

The espos, outing themselves as ill-trained bullies who shouldn't be issued a lollipop much less a firearm, rip out their guns and start blasting away.

Um.. excuse me? You're going to open fire on a fleeing man in the middle of a crowded restaurant? In the spaceport of the Authority Capital? Like as not you'll accidentally tag an Authority exec out on the town with a significant other, and then, if you're lucky, you can spend the rest of your employment on an asteroid somewhere.

[Insert joke about police competence here.]

Han reassures Chewbacca they'll never hear from Ploovo again; humiliated he may be, and angry he may be, but he was paid back the full amount so there's no way his backers will spring for a bounty on the pair. If Ploovo Two-For-One is smart (and he is very smart), he'll cut his losses and never, ever cross paths with our smugglers again.

I wouldn't be so sure. The guy's livelihood as a gangster depends on his reputation, he can't let people humiliate him like that and get away with it. Maybe he can't afford to track them down (though you'd be surprised at how much people can afford when their pride is on the line) but at the very least that means they can't go back to this place to make business, for fear of his thugs breaking all four of their legs.

Actually, this feels a lot like a gaming session with an absolutely crazy rogue. I wonder if Brian Daley ever sat at a gaming table?

This feels more like a typical action movie sequence to me. Something, say Pr. Indiana Jones would get up to.

I'm not really clear on the nature of the conflict between Solo and two-for-One, though. He wants revenge because Han is paying him late? But he's being paid in full, right? But he didn't do anything? The border patrol caught Han all by themselves, why would it be Two-For-One's job to tell Han about new regulations? Han's the smuggler, here. And even if he did intend for Han to be caught by the police, wouldn't that incriminate him as well, as Han's business partner? Not enough to be interested, but surely, he doesn't want the law to pay attention to him? This thing just makes Han look paranoid to me.

[Peelee]

Well, for starters, its a space ship doing, per your suggestion, the job of a landspeeder (or the truck equivalent.) It really wouldnt need to even be able to leave atmosphere, or enter hyperspace.

And I dont think youre correctly assessing Pendell's question either. He pointed out that it has limited cargo space for its purported design job. Its a reasonable question. Your counterargument was that it could haul things locally and still be commercial, but that doesnt hold up very well IMO.

Let's go with equating it to a landspeeder (never my intention when I likened it to a truck, but ignoring that). Landspeeder appear to have roughly similar speeds to modern-day ground cars, meaning any significant distance will require an inordinate time investment as opposed to a ship that can make suborbital flights. We also know that you can buy your own ship for 10,000 (presumably not a piece of junk), Luke's first reaction to seeing the YT-1300, is that it's a piece of junk (presumably costing under 10,000), and that Luke's used landspeeder which explicitly has low demand can sell for 2000. It doesn't sound like there's that significant a difference between a landspeeder and a ship except the use case, and going between continents, as a quick example, would be significantly more quick and efficient in a suborbital flight than a landspeeder.

And then if we go on the idea that traveling between planets seems roughly like traveling between major cities in terms of how the people in the Star Wars universe treat it, I would hope that my pickup truck analogy would be more understandable. Along with the idea that nobody seems to think that a light freighter is inherently a smuggling craft - even the Empire, when they have a YT-1300 in the most advanced space station ever built, with a space wizard who is also an expert pilot, moffs, generals, admirals, colonels, and the vast array of lower level commissioned and noncoms aboard, literally nobody even thinks it may have hidden compartments until Vader orders a scanning crew specifically because he can sense Kenobi. Initial search yielded nobody and the logs and escape pods all gave the idea the crew abandoned ship.

So by the scale we see it seems like a light freighter designed for carrying light freight, in a setting where spaceships are incredibly common and seemingly affordable (roughly in the same sense that pickups are as opposed to sedans or coups), and nobody in that universe bat's an eye at the idea of a light freighter not being necessarily used for smuggling.

Youll forgive me if I think "what legitimate use does that ship have except for smuggling" to be ridiculous on its face.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Gnoman
Perishables, high-value low-bulk cargoes, or anything with a time sensitive nature would be ideal. Also remember that a lot of worlds in the GFFA are extremely sparsely populated without a lot of interstellar trade. Diverting a massive bulk freighter to one of them very often would probably be a waste, so they're going to be served by smaller tramps.

Originally Posted by pendell
So I guess the legitimate use for a YT-1300 would be the Tramp Trade.

Indeed. As I recall, the Falcon is directly described as a “tramp freighter” in one of Brian Daley’s novels.

The tramp freighter is a real-world concept that goes back to at least 1300 BC and the Uluburun ship, if not centuries or millennia earlier. It’s an itinerant ship which travels from port to port, carrying whatever mix of cargos the captain can scrounge. The wreck at Uluburun gives some idea of the scattershot variety of goods that can be carried at any given time.

Tramp ships in the Bronze Age Mediterranean had a general route determined by seasonal winds and island groups; tramp dhows in the Indian Ocean followed a schedule tied to the monsoons. A tramp freighter hauling across interstellar distances wouldn’t be as tied to natural phenomena, and would go wherever the promise of short-term profit would take her.

Originally Posted by Keltest
It really wouldnt need to even be able to leave atmosphere, or enter hyperspace.

In one of the Daley novels, Solo takes offense at an offer to move cargo between two points on the same planet, which he describes as a “crummy surface-to-surface hop.”

Originally Posted by Keltest
…haul things locally and still be commercial, but that doesnt hold up very well IMO.

In my area not so long ago we used to have what were called truck farms. The “truck” may or may not refer to an actual vehicle, but these were farms whose produce was carried a relatively short distance from the farms to the market, probably just a few miles. The produce was carried by actual trucks, which in terms of cargo space probably weren’t too much larger than an F-150. That’s a solid example of a truck carrying a commercial haul over short distances.

[pendell]

I'm not really clear on the nature of the conflict between Solo and two-for-One, though. He wants revenge because Han is paying him late? But he's being paid in full, right? But he didn't do anything?

I'll add the relevant sentences which tell us pretty much everything about the quarrel.

While he waited, he gloated over his anticipated revenge on Han Solo. Not that the pilot wouldn't repay. The loan shark was certain of getting his money. But Solo had long been an irritant, always ready with some dazzling evasion of payment, jeering Ploovo and bewildering him at the same time. On a number of occasions Ploovo had lost face with his backers because of run-ins with Solo, and his backers weren't the sort to be amused by that. The code of ethics necessary to the conduct of illegal enterprises kept Ploovo from turning in the captain-owner to the law; nevertheless, a convenient local circumstance would serve the loan shark's purpose just as well.

So it's as you said; Han had repeatedly humiliated Ploovo. So Ploovo wants payback: Payback of the money he's owed, and payback for the face he lost. The first will be satisfied by a monetary payment; the second can only be satisfied by inflicting pain and agony on Solo. Happily, Solo is more than willing to inflict the damage on himself through sheer carelessness.

Ploovo Two-For-One expected the Authority goons to drag Solo off to prison while he waved and counted his money. It didn't work out that way, of course.

What happened to the Falcon looking like a piece of junk? Or is the idea that Han is going to purposefully make her look worse than she is to avoid this kind of things in the future?

I think what's happening here is that the Authority inspectors look at the ship with different eyes than a farmer off Tatooine. Luke didn't pick up, as one example, on the fact that the ship has much more powerful engines than is standard for the class. it's the difference between showing your car to a 14-year-old and sending it in for a safety inspection.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[gbaji]

When I say "commercial" I specifically mean "commercial freight" -- hauling cargo from point A to point B and this is the primary means of making income. Also requires a commercial driver's license. You don't need a CDL for an F-150 even if its' owned by a business; you do for a Kenworth.

Uhaul (and others) have a successful business renting trucks (including pickups), the largest of which are smaller than anything requiring a commercial license to drive. So the idea that a "small freighter" could be operated successfuly as a small business seems reasonable. I do think that the "bush pilot" model is mabye a better analogy, but it still works IMO.

In my area not so long ago we used to have what were called truck farms. The “truck” may or may not refer to an actual vehicle, but these were farms whose produce was carried a relatively short distance from the farms to the market, probably just a few miles. The produce was carried by actual trucks, which in terms of cargo space probably weren’t too much larger than an F-150. That’s a solid example of a truck carrying a commercial haul over short distances.

On the flip side, that's not really equivalent to traveling from one planet to another. One would assume that the overhead of having a ship capable of breaking atmosphere and having hyperdrive capability would only make trips profitable when actually breaking atmosphere and travelling to another planet (requireing a hyperdrive). Otherwise, you'd use something else (hence, presumably, Han's comment about a "crummy surface run").


Certainly, a lot of the Falcon falls squarely into "rule of cool" territory, but given the sheer number of small ships like this that seem to permeate the SW universe, one has to assume that they aren't that uncommon, and that lots of people use them for lots of different reasons. Personal travel, transport of small amounts of goods on a short schedule, transport of passengers, etc. Could you make a legitimate living transporting things around? Probably not in the more populated and built up areas of the galaxy where there are existing mass transport hubs, but out in the hinterlands? Yeah. I can see it. Large portions of the SW galaxy do appear to be more wild west than metropolis.

[Wintermoot]

the point that I take from this is that "the idea that a ship like the falcon, with its minimal cargo space, could be MEANT to be a freighter is ridiculous on the parts of the universe creators/ship designers" and I feel that that is solidly a true statement. Numerous posters have posted reasons why and I haven't really seen any reasonable disputations.

Now we are dealing with people basically saying "the ship exists and other ships like it exist in the star wars universe THEREFORE they aren't ridiculous." I'm sorry. But if that's the best refutation you have you really need to rethink how strong of an argument you think that is.

In real life, no one is buying a ford F-150 and trying to make a career out of using it to haul things from chicago to kansas city. The most you'll find is someone tryingto move themselves with a truck a long distance and they aren't doing that as an economic model.

The falcon is a ridiculous ship. Still cool though!

[Peelee]

the point that I take from this is that "the idea that a ship like the falcon, with its minimal cargo space, could be MEANT to be a freighter is ridiculous on the parts of the universe creators/ship designers" and I feel that that is solidly a true statement. Numerous posters have posted reasons why and I haven't really seen any reasonable disputations.

Now we are dealing with people basically saying "the ship exists and other ships like it exist in the star wars universe THEREFORE they aren't ridiculous." I'm sorry. But if that's the best refutation you have you really need to rethink how strong of an argument you think that is.

In real life, no one is buying a ford F-150 and trying to make a career out of using it to haul things from chicago to kansas city. The most you'll find is someone tryingto move themselves with a truck a long distance and they aren't doing that as an economic model.

The falcon is a ridiculous ship. Still cool though!

Except it's not a ridiculous ship. It's only ridiculous if you assume it's only possible use is to haul stuff things from metaphorical Chicago to Kansas city. Further, iirc this Han Solo Adventures was the only time he ever claimed to be doing that, so it's not exactly a "cover story". Finally, the economics are never explained (which is a good move, hard numbers in Sci fi rarely, if ever, work out well) so you can't say what the economics even are of making that Chicago run.

Further further, we have massive oil tankers and big rig 18 wheelers for large scale transport and we also don't have major pirate rings which can make easy targets of those during transport. This is not the case for the Star Wars universe, which has many stories involving pirates. Even planetside you have to watch out or Jawas will life the shirt right off your back.

This isn't a "it exists in universe so it makes sense" argument. This is a "everything in universe explicitly supports this and your analogies are assuming incredibly specific things as the only possible methods despite nothing except your own insistence that it must be this way supporting those positions and then declaring it nonsensible" argument.

[Keltest]

Except it's not a ridiculous ship. It's only ridiculous if you assume it's only possible use is to haul stuff things from metaphorical Chicago to Kansas city. Further, iirc this Han Solo Adventures was the only time he ever claimed to be doing that, so it's not exactly a "cover story". Finally, the economics are never explained (which is a good move, hard numbers in Sci fi rarely, if ever, work out well) so you can't say what the economics even are of making that Chicago run.

Further further, we have massive oil tankers and big rig 18 wheelers for large scale transport and we also don't have major pirate rings which can make easy targets of those during transport. This is not the case for the Star Wars universe, which has many stories involving pirates. Even planetside you have to watch out or Jawas will life the shirt right off your back.

This isn't a "it exists in universe so it makes sense" argument. This is a "everything in universe explicitly supports this and your analogies are assuming incredibly specific things as the only possible methods despite nothing except your own insistence that it must be this way supporting those positions and then declaring it nonsensible" argument.

Its a freight hauler and a space ship, ergo its for hauling freight in space. Thats not an assumption at that point, thats just being told flat out what its for. Sure, it "can" do other stuff, but thats no longer within the scope of the question. "What is it good for?" Not just "what can you brute force it into doing if you dont mind inefficiencies."

[Wintermoot]

Except it's not a ridiculous ship. It's only ridiculous if you assume it's only possible use is to haul stuff things from metaphorical Chicago to Kansas city. Further, iirc this Han Solo Adventures was the only time he ever claimed to be doing that, so it's not exactly a "cover story". Finally, the economics are never explained (which is a good move, hard numbers in Sci fi rarely, if ever, work out well) so you can't say what the economics even are of making that Chicago run.

Further further, we have massive oil tankers and big rig 18 wheelers for large scale transport and we also don't have major pirate rings which can make easy targets of those during transport. This is not the case for the Star Wars universe, which has many stories involving pirates. Even planetside you have to watch out or Jawas will life the shirt right off your back.

This isn't a "it exists in universe so it makes sense" argument. This is a "everything in universe explicitly supports this and your analogies are assuming incredibly specific things as the only possible methods despite nothing except your own insistence that it must be this way supporting those positions and then declaring it nonsensible" argument.

It's a "stock light freighter". It's not ridiculous for me to say "its designed purpose it to haul freight" because it's in the name. If the lucasarts designers had just called it a "stock light courier" I wouldn't have the slightest problem with it. and it's also not ridiculous to say "a freighter with no real space to put freight is a badly designed freighter"

I really don't see why that's so hard for you to admit. to quote your favorite saying "I don't know why this is a hill you want to die on"

that being said, this new argument of yours "in a universe with heavy piracy, having a nimble, small freighter to move small cargoes through heavy pirated areas" is the first disputation you've concocted that isn't simply rubbish. So i'll give you that. I can buy that the Correllian shipyards could have theoretically build this boondoggle of a freighter specifically to deal with piracy losses. I mean, its still a garbage design, but lots of garbage designs get pushed to production.

[The Glyphstone]

Isn't the YT-1300 also supposed to be extremely customizable? Heck, just looking at the Wookiepedia there are two canon, Corellian-made variants - the stock YT-1300P which is primarily a passenger transport rather than a commodities transport, and the YT-1300F which is explicitly remodeled to gut its passenger capacity for additional freight cubeage. It's got mounting points on the outside for external cargo pods, various landing-gear modifications for terrain a larger transport would struggle with - and being so easily modded means it's comparatively cheap to take the extras off when you don't need them. There's probably as many customized YT-1300s as there are YT-1300 captains, pretty much the only thing it can't do is haul mass bulk goods.

This is looking to me like two hills, not one, each fortified and defended to the death.



EDIT: Actually, reading about the cargo pod mounts makes me think of stuff like Battletech's JumpShips, and various other similar designs in all manner of sci-fi properties. External pods are probably the cheapest and easiest way to haul cargo ever made - you dont even have to wait to unload them, just drop them off and it's the customer's problem to get the stuff out.

[Mechalich]

Regarding the logistics of light freighters, including the Millennium Falcon, it's true that they don't make sense by the standards of 2023. However, Star Wars doesn't operate based on the standards of 2023, in fact, it barely manages to approach those of 1923! This is important, because there was a massive post-WWII revolution in logistics that simply doesn't apply to the Star Wars universe. Containerized cargo, 18-wheelers, ubiquitous paved roads, reinforced concrete bridges, universal docking cranes, etc. Star Wars does not possess the equivalent of any of these things.

Instead, light freighters are meant to be equivalent of the small, extremely hardy trucks used in rough regions like the American West, Africa, and Asia during the first half of the 20th century. For example, these:


These trucks are from the Mongolian expedition of Roy Chapman Andrews (the real-life inspiration for Indiana Jones, so extremely relevant to the mindset of George Lucas) in 1922. Note how small they are and how comparatively little cargo space they have? The Falcon is meant to represent this kind of vehicle. One that roams between the major hubs, acquires a collection of bespoke goods, and then fulfills the needs of shopkeepers, traders, and craftsmen in small, isolated settlements. Significantly, on most planets the larger class of bulk carriers can't even land.

If the Falcon were engaged in legitimate trade on Tatooine, what it would do is make run after run back and forth from Arkanis - the sector capital on the Corellian Run super-hyperlane - filling up the holds with probably 1000+ different items of low bulk and high value (probably lots of machine parts, alcoholic beverages, and pharmaceuticals) that he'd then sell to 10-20 different stores in Mos Eisley.

[Wintermoot]

This is looking to me like two hills, not one, each fortified and defended to the death.

I'm decamping from mine. You all have fun.I will continue to love the Falcon for all its ridiculous, silly glory.

[Peelee]

Its a freight hauler and a space ship, ergo its for hauling freight in space. Thats not an assumption at that point, thats just being told flat out what its for. Sure, it "can" do other stuff, but thats no longer within the scope of the question. "What is it good for?" Not just "what can you brute force it into doing if you dont mind inefficiencies."

Then you'd think "it's for hauling freight in space" would answer the "what good is it for?" argument, and yet.

[Keltest]

Then you'd think "it's for hauling freight in space" would answer the "what good is it for?" argument, and yet.

Right, because the cargo space is pretty minimal. Layouts for the interior of the Falcon dont allow for much in the way of cargo containers even if you dont have to walk them up the main ramp. Thats the whole objection here. The one thing that its supposed to be good for is something it logically is not actually able to do.

[Peelee]

Right, because the cargo space is pretty minimal. Layouts for the interior of the Falcon dont allow for much in the way of cargo containers even if you dont have to walk them up the main ramp. Thats the whole objection here. The one thing that its supposed to be good for is something it logically is not actually able to do.

Ah. Light freight and light cargo don't exist in thr STAR Wars universe, only boxes and crates and other things that cannot fit in the Falcon. I was unaware of that part of lore.

[Keltest]

Ah. Light freight and light cargo don't exist in thr STAR Wars universe, only boxes and crates and other things that cannot fit in the Falcon. I was unaware of that part of lore.

Right, and now were back to the "Pickup truck doing the job of an 18 wheeler" part of the argument.

Lets just cut to the chase. What do you think the Falcon could actually be used to ship commercially between planets at that scale that wouldnt be better handled by a larger ship? Compared to even other freighters we see in Star Wars media, the Falcon is tiny.

[Peelee]

Right, and now were back to the "Pickup truck doing the job of an 18 wheeler" part of the argument.

Lets just cut to the chase. What do you think the Falcon could actually be used to ship commercially between planets at that scale that wouldnt be better handled by a larger ship? Compared to even other freighters we see in Star Wars media, the Falcon is tiny.

Sure. Anything small enough to transport via light freighter as opposed to a massive freighter! Heck, that even happens in real life. Large water tankers are used to ship enormous amounts of things, and smaller 18 wheelers are used to get them from enormous shipping facilities to places, and small vans are used to for final legs, or from distribution centers to final destination, or companies like FedEx give their stuff to USPS which uses very small vans, and stuff like that.

And that's entirely discounting that we don't know the economics of the Star Wars universe, where it could be cheaper to have a place on one planet have stuff shipped directly to them instead of waiting in distribution centers for processing.

You're assuming logistics and economics must be a 1-1 analogue to real world for no reason other than you can't imagine it being different. And there's something about making assumptions that fit a story instead of making assumptions they don't and then complaining about it.

[Keltest]

Sure. Anything small enough to transport via light freighter as opposed to a massive freighter! Heck, that even happens in real life. Large water tankers are used to ship enormous amounts of things, and smaller 18 wheelers are used to get them from enormous shipping facilities to places, and small vans are used to for final legs, or from distribution centers to final destination, or companies like FedEx give their stuff to USPS which uses very small vans, and stuff like that.

And that's entirely discounting that we don't know the economics of the Star Wars universe, where it could be cheaper to have a place on one planet have stuff shipped directly to them instead of waiting in distribution centers for processing.

You're assuming logistics and economics must be a 1-1 analogue to real world for no reason other than you can't imagine it being different. And there's something about making assumptions that fit a story instead of making assumptions they don't and then complaining about it.

That sounds like a lot of words to say you dont know and cant think of anything but assume there must be something.

And frankly, I hate that quote because I frequently see it (mis)used as an excuse to absolve writers from having to make sense. Its the writers job to make things fit together cohesively, not mine.

[Wintermoot]

That sounds like a lot of words to say you dont know and cant think of anything but assume there must be something.

And frankly, I hate that quote because I frequently see it (mis)used as an excuse to absolve writers from having to make sense. Its the writers job to make things fit together cohesively, not mine.

I recommend you decamp as well Keltest, because the entire counterarguement here is based on two things:

• everything from a doordash driver on up is "freight" regardless of scale.
• the falcon ISN"T a bad design because it EXISTS in this universe therefore the economic reality of this universe must be such that the falcon is a good design.

Neither of which is, IMO, worth arguing against because they are both so ridiculous.

the falcon is a great design for what the show creator built it for: a roving base of operations for a scoundrel. It's a terrible design for actually what its meant to do. And I hope the correllian designer who made it got fired and is sitting at home with his models muttering to himself about how "they just don't understand my genius".

I hope there is a graveyard of disused YT-1300 sitting on the tarmac in some abandoned desert planet, not even able to be sold as scrap. I hope someone has turned a bunch of them into food trucks.

[The Glyphstone]

Just gonna point out again...why are we using the Falcon as a baseline, when its explicitly and repeatedly mentioned to be 'heavily customized' from the stock YT-1300?

[Keltest]

Just gonna point out again...why are we using the Falcon as a baseline, when its explicitly and repeatedly mentioned to be 'heavily customized' from the stock YT-1300?

Unless "heavily customized" means "Shrunk" then I dont know how much that matters.

[Wintermoot]

Just gonna point out again...why are we using the Falcon as a baseline, when its explicitly and repeatedly mentioned to be 'heavily customized' from the stock YT-1300?

You are welcome to read/replace "falcon" with "YT-1300" anytime I say it as I mean them interchangeably.

I have yet to see a diagram of a non-customized YT-1300 which miraculously has a bunch more cargo space. Perhaps a Tardis modification of some sort so that its bigger on the inside?

[Peelee]

That sounds like a lot of words to say you dont know and cant think of anything but assume there must be something.

And frankly, I hate that quote because I frequently see it (mis)used as an excuse to absolve writers from having to make sense. Its the writers job to make things fit together cohesively, not mine.

Not my fault you read "I don't know" into that, since I gave several examples of how light freighters exist in real life. But a light freighter existing in Star Wars, thats too outlandish. How dare they.

[The Glyphstone]

Unless "heavily customized" means "Shrunk" then I dont know how much that matters.

Because a smuggler who won his ship from another smuggler might have done something like replace the stock freight cubeage with something more useful for smuggling? Heck, Han has an entire secondary hyperdrive system - that cant be cheap in volume. Canon, both Disney and legend, has this in everything short of giant glowing neon billboards - a YT-1300F, the freighter model, has most of its interior volume devoted to storage and can attach external cargo pods for more capacity. This isn't a pickup truck, its a U-Haul van/truck. Smaller than an 18-wheeler, but still perfectly capable of moving cargo.

[Keltest]

Not my fault you read "I don't know" into that, since I gave several examples of how light freighters exist in real life. But a light freighter existing in Star Wars, thats too outlandish. How dare they.

Your comparison was a van. That would seem to argue against there being legitimate commercial uses, since people dont use regular vans as commercial transports from city to city.