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  1. - Top - End - #421
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    HalflingPirate

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    Default Re: Goblins XIX: New Year, New Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgaln View Post
    On one hand, Dies story has always been my favorite. That has to do with character dynamics (although K'sseliss's death changed a lot of that), but also the fact that the group didn't have an annoying wacky character along the lines of Minmax and Vorpal, and that the group didn't destroy immersion by dropping "we're all players and none of this is actually real" panels.

    On the other hand, the quality of the story has sharply declined since we last saw these guys, and I'm afraid of how that will affect them.
    I wonder if Ellipsis even remembers how to write these characters or if we're going to see them behaving more wacky and suchlike because it's been so long since she wrote anything else? The 'scwillion' thing doesn't fill me with confidence...

  2. - Top - End - #422
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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: Goblins XIX: New Year, New Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgaln View Post
    On the other hand, the quality of the story has sharply declined since we last saw these guys, and I'm afraid of how that will affect them.
    There's a lot of potential to work with here. Dies' son, the rogue klik who feeds on blood. Fox still coming to terms with the absolute nature of fate and destiny after all these years - she hasn't really had time to unpack the trauma there. Biscuit adapting to a new era after centuries of forced servitude to a demon. Presumably getting chased by Duv, since this whole situation has only lasted a few days so there's no way she's had time to process losing her other wing. And of course the possible revelation that Dies Horribly is actually named that because he's horrible at dying - meaning he can't actually be killed off easily.

    And there's grief at the loss of Chief, which Dies has only recently heard about. The continued loss of both Grem and K'Seliss, and more. This group has seen some layers of hell that Complains isn't even going to touch on in his journey, they deserve some serious storytelling for a bit.

    But if the story can't pull that off, then.....
    Last edited by ZhonLord; 2024-06-12 at 10:13 PM.
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  3. - Top - End - #423
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    HalflingPirate

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    Default Re: Goblins XIX: New Year, New Updates

    I haven't reread things in a long long time but I do feel like being serious has gotten less and less well executed over the 12 years since we last saw this group. That's not to say that there aren't serious moments but the comic tends to whiplash back and forth between some pretty horrific concepts to being a silly frivolous story... It always did go between the two but my memory of it was that it was better executed. Or maybe it's just been running so long that I have matured and my critical eye for the things I read is more discerning... I don't have the patience to go back and read from the start to find out though

  4. - Top - End - #424
    Colossus in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Goblins XIX: New Year, New Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by ZhonLord View Post
    And of course the possible revelation that Dies Horribly is actually named that because he's horrible at dying - meaning he can't actually be killed off easily.
    We really do not need to keep looking for explanations for what was already explained.

    (Ellipsis even spelled out that Dies' death at the hands of the demon was the horrible death of his name prophecy, not that it should have needed spelling out.)

  5. - Top - End - #425
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    Default Re: Goblins XIX: New Year, New Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    We really do not need to keep looking for explanations for what was already explained.

    (Ellipsis even spelled out that Dies' death at the hands of the demon was the horrible death of his name prophecy, not that it should have needed spelling out.)
    I, for one, hadn't picked that up :D

    Anyway. That was a reasonably fast update. Let's see what's this newfangled fanged creature.
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  6. - Top - End - #426
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    Default Re: Goblins XIX: New Year, New Updates

    Wait did these three not notice the world turning hellish or was that entirely local to the main group?
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  7. - Top - End - #427
    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: Goblins XIX: New Year, New Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Wait did these three not notice the world turning hellish or was that entirely local to the main group?
    It may not have happened yet in their timeline. Think pulp fiction where we see multiple separate groups going through the same day or two. Eventually it all synchs back up to the robbery at the diner. That being said, Dies, really? You literally just gone done dealing with a bloodthirsty shape shifting abomination. WHY ARE YOU FEEDING ANOTHER ONE?! I know it will probably be one of those things where its a loyal pet that saves him in some way, probably dying in the process but still.
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  8. - Top - End - #428
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Goblins XIX: New Year, New Updates

    Dies is a "monster" too, as a goblin. He probably doesn't think along those lines in the first place, just using a more straightforward "is it attacking me yes/no" judgement.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  9. - Top - End - #429
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    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Goblins XIX: New Year, New Updates

    The better question is: why do those who only complain about this webcomic keep reading it and posting about it?
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  10. - Top - End - #430
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Goblins XIX: New Year, New Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by archon_huskie View Post
    The better question is: why do those who only complain about this webcomic keep reading it and posting about it?
    Hope it gets better/sunk cost fallacy/still want to see how it ends.
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  11. - Top - End - #431
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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: Goblins XIX: New Year, New Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    We really do not need to keep looking for explanations for what was already explained.

    (Ellipsis even spelled out that Dies' death at the hands of the demon was the horrible death of his name prophecy, not that it should have needed spelling out.)
    But Dies didn't stay dead. That's my point. There's a distinct possibility that he goes into other situations now where he gets "killed" but then comes back. Meaning he doesn't stay dead, no matter how many times he dies.

    If the author says that this one death was the only one in Dies Horribly's fate, then fine, that throws this out the window, but all the previous prophecies fulfilled have been obscure or with double and triple meanings. So you can't really blame people for looking for convoluted additional explanations that could also make sense. Ellipsis set the precedent.
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  12. - Top - End - #432
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    Default Re: Goblins XIX: New Year, New Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by ZhonLord View Post
    If the author says that this one death was the only one in Dies Horribly's fate, then fine, that throws this out the window, but all the previous prophecies fulfilled have been obscure or with double and triple meanings.
    What previous prophecies? The only prophecy I remember being fulfilled was when Forgath died at the hands of another dwarf with a lot of screaming. Young-And-Beautiful saw something of an "if X, then Y" nature with regard to Thaco being chief, which she averted, for good or ill. The adventurers did attack the goblin warcamp and had exactly the stats she saw for them, including Minmax being a massive cheater. Where are these numerous other prophecies which set a precedent for wordplay-based meanings?

  13. - Top - End - #433
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    Default Re: Goblins XIX: New Year, New Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  14. - Top - End - #434
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    Default Re: Goblins XIX: New Year, New Updates

    I'm almost afraid to ask, because I really did not care for that arc, but does anyone remember what the deal is with all the transparent body parts the orc and Dies have?
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  15. - Top - End - #435
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    Default Re: Goblins XIX: New Year, New Updates

    They're marked because they made a deal with a demon. (Dies' deal destroyed the demon.)

  16. - Top - End - #436
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    Default Re: Goblins XIX: New Year, New Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    They're marked because they made a deal with a demon. (Dies' deal destroyed the demon.)
    IIRC because the deal was for one soul, but the demon also took Dies' arm.
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  17. - Top - End - #437
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: Goblins XIX: New Year, New Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    What previous prophecies? The only prophecy I remember being fulfilled was when Forgath died at the hands of another dwarf with a lot of screaming. Young-And-Beautiful saw something of an "if X, then Y" nature with regard to Thaco being chief, which she averted, for good or ill. The adventurers did attack the goblin warcamp and had exactly the stats she saw for them, including Minmax being a massive cheater. Where are these numerous other prophecies which set a precedent for wordplay-based meanings?
    I didn't say "numerous", just to be clear, but here you go:

    Saves-a-Fox was prophesized to save a fox, and she thought killing it broke the prophecy. Then we learned about Sunset Fever, and that she saved it by giving it a mercy kill.

    And we've seen the meaning for a couple of the prophesies that Vorpal has made already: https://www.goblinscomic.com/comic/page-21
    • "the ears will not hear" - Big Ears cutting his ears off.
    • "Levels are gained outside of time" - since this is after the Maze of Many, it's referring to the levels gained from confronting the Goblin Angel and surviving her trial.


    There are plenty of times throughout the comic where things aren't what they seem. Even from the very beginning, "drop your assumptions and see the truth" has been a recurring theme - from the original warcamp, to Brassmoon City, to the Bloodlight Dungeon, to the Maze of Many. Very few things have turned out as one would have expected them to based on assumptions of how things are "supposed" to be looked at. That should reasonably include prophecies as well. And it's not unreasonable to think that prophecy can be fulfilled in a way that's ongoing, rather than as "criteria met and done."

    But again, all this is moot if Ellipsis has said that Dies' one single death was all there was to that prophecy.
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  18. - Top - End - #438
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    Default Re: Goblins XIX: New Year, New Updates

    Let's see...

    The dwarf cries no more: Forgath's death.
    The ears will not hear: likely as already said Ears doing his thing instead of what he's told (for example, ripping his ears off or following Names)
    The levels are gained outside of time: the angel.
    She saw but misunderstood the name is not right: Kin doesn't understand why her ime shows KEN.
    The hammer awaits: there was a hammer containing a pure soul (hammer of Prissan?), that's probably the one
    Another leg lost: the Orc is going to lose his other leg.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  19. - Top - End - #439
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Goblins XIX: New Year, New Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    Let's see...

    The dwarf cries no more: Forgath's death.
    The ears will not hear: likely as already said Ears doing his thing instead of what he's told (for example, ripping his ears off or following Names)
    The levels are gained outside of time: the angel.
    She saw but misunderstood the name is not right: Kin doesn't understand why her ime shows KEN.
    The hammer awaits: there was a hammer containing a pure soul (hammer of Prissan?), that's probably the one
    Another leg lost: the Orc is going to lose his other leg.
    The Hammer of Jale, if I remember correctly. It's the "trapped angel" equivalent to the Axe of Prissan. I don't think the hammer has ever been mentioned in-comic though. It was brought up in supplementary material detailing some of the alternate versions seen in the Maze of Many. The implication was that it doesn't exist in the universe the comic plays in, but that might have been me misinterpreting something.
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  20. - Top - End - #440
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    Default Re: Goblins XIX: New Year, New Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by archon_huskie View Post
    The better question is: why do those who only complain about this webcomic keep reading it and posting about it?
    For me Goblins is a comic where some things are done very well, really really well, and other things are, well, almost unique in their deviation from more commonly applied ways of storytelling or even standards of professionalism.

    It's like reading a comic where most pages are just genuinly good, but ones every ten to twenty of those pages one of then has been replaced with footage from a slow motion train crash I just can't look away from. And the next one might be part of the same train crash, or an entirely new one, or even two previous crashes flowing together in a head on collision.

    It's honestly probably better than an actual hate read/watch, because every time a sudden characterization flipflop or an overly gory pointless dramatic loss or a jarring non-consentual sex joke or a regularly scheduled plea for way too much donation money makes you want to put the comic away you've just gotten through an actually good section of comic that you don't want to see ruined, so the hate is just so much more intense.

    ...

    No, I'm not sure how much of this I'm serious about either. But if I had a therapist I'm pretty sure I could keep him listening to me talking about Goblins for an entire session if I was looking to avoid talking about any actual issues.
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  21. - Top - End - #441
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    Default Re: Goblins XIX: New Year, New Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgaln View Post
    The Hammer of Jale, if I remember correctly. It's the "trapped angel" equivalent to the Axe of Prissan. I don't think the hammer has ever been mentioned in-comic though. It was brought up in supplementary material detailing some of the alternate versions seen in the Maze of Many. The implication was that it doesn't exist in the universe the comic plays in, but that might have been me misinterpreting something.
    The flea demon mentioned something about the hammer https://www.goblinscomic.com/comic/09182016-2
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  22. - Top - End - #442
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    Default Re: Goblins XIX: New Year, New Updates

    The Saves-A-Fox one does indeed qualify.

    (For all the others, I would dispute either 1) that that is obscure or a double meaning, or 2) that it fulfils the prophecy at all; I hope "the ears will not hear" is not simply "Big Ears will have to self-mutilate, in a way that won't actually even damage his hearing," and since time continued to pass normally while the goblins were dealing with the angel that's not "outside of time." But one is enough for me to agree that it is something Ellipsis does.)

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