Goblins XIX: New Year, New Updates

[Kish]

Can someone who knows Grinnarorcen's name summon him, or only command him if he's already there?

In either case, I suspect Elli means Forgath at this point to be too heroic to try to enslave Grinnarorcen, much less Kin.

[Anarchic Fox]

Same, particularly since it was locked, closed and removed without any warnings whatsoever aside from "has been closed". Seems a bit much, as they could at least remind us on what we ought to avoid in this one.

Here's the sheriff's explanation. I guess there were just too many Warnings in too short a period.

[Vinyadan]

Can someone who knows Grinnarorcen's name summon him, or only command him if he's already there?

Having reread the page, it's mentioned that, once in Hell, he's free, so I guess not really. In a way, it's both better and worse this way. It's better, because the characters won't need to do something nasty and character-breaking to save the world (although I think a good writer could do something interesting with it). It's worse, because Ear's idea of going to Hell, without a way to do so ever having been shown, feels ungrounded and Quixotic. I think Ears is paying for the fact that he was supposed to die at the start, and his role was supposed to be played by the quirky Vorpal, who would have used the axe thanks to his paladinic 1/13 (?).

[Morgaln]

Edit: Actually, I think what I was saying was violating forum rules, so I am removing it.

[Taevyr]

Here's the sheriff's explanation. I guess there were just too many Warnings in too short a period.

Thanks for that: not the most informative response, but then again there's little more to be said than that.

[Daywalker1983]

Plush becoming Solid when happy bodes Well for Ears...

[Cygnia]

Happy? In Goblins? Yeah, that won't last...

[Vinyadan]

Why does Thac0 look so disdainful while talking about happy hard people?

[Kish]

Thaco has been disdainful of happiness since his very first appearance.

[Dragonus45]

Thaco has been disdainful of happiness since his very first appearance.

And given his age...

[Kantaki]

Why does Thac0 look so disdainful while talking about happy hard people?

Isn't that how he always looks?
Pretty much his neutral face.

[Anonymouswizard]

Plush becoming Solid when happy bodes Well for Ears...

He's talked to his Cleric, and it's apparently perfectly normal for a monster his age.

And yes, I give it a year or two until we get a panel of Big Ears curled up in Plush's big wings.

[Daywalker1983]

Why does Thac0 look so disdainful while talking about happy hard people?

Maybe He is not All that often ha... Happy anymore?

[Vinyadan]

Clap your hands, children! Clap your hands, or Thac0 will sink in the Mire of Sadness!

Edit: it took me weeks before I understood what the previous comments actually meant

[Vinyadan]

New page!

(there really is a new page).

[Yuki Akuma]

That was honestly kinda cute.

Big Ears and/or Plush are going to die horribly at some point, aren't they?

[Fyraltari]

New page!

Wait, I thought the whole "teapot" thing was something Ellipsis came up with. Is it a reference to something?

[tyckspoon]

That was honestly kinda cute.

Big Ears and/or Plush are going to die horribly at some point, aren't they?

Everybody is going to die horribly sooner or later, it's kinda one of the comic's Things... which makes me wonder just how bad Dies Horribly's expected fate must be in order for that to be his oracle-decreed actual name.

[Yuki Akuma]

Wait, I thought the whole "teapot" thing was something Ellipsis came up with. Is it a reference to something?

It's... a song from the 1930s that turned into an incredibly popular nursery rhyme?

[Fyraltari]

It's... a song from the 1930s that turned into an incredibly popular nursery rhyme?

Thanks, good to know.

[halfeye]

Wait, I thought the whole "teapot" thing was something Ellipsis came up with. Is it a reference to something?

It's... a song from the 1930s that turned into an incredibly popular nursery rhyme?

It was worse than that, it was a song that was used in infants school, there was this whole activity with one hand on your hip with your arm as the handle, and the other arm sideways with a bend in it as the spout, then you had to keep them like that and bend sideways for the "pour me out" bit. It was supposed to be an exercise routine I think.

[Murk]

...which makes me wonder just how bad Dies Horribly's expected fate must be in order for that to be his oracle-decreed actual name.

I think Dies Horribly supposedly already died horribly when killed by the demons in that one dungeon twenty years ago, and then came back to life, so his prophecy has already been fulfilled.

(Though I might be confusing it with Forgath who was also prophecized to die horribly, and then he did and came back to life too?)

Personally I would think Dies Horribly's prophecy has not been fulfilled yet because that was his whole shtick and without it he doesn't really have any character arc or narrative purpose left.
But then again Goblins' character arcs have never been really clear to me. I'm still very confused about Elli considering Chief's character arc to be "completed" (after which he came back into the story anyway, so... I don't know, man).

[sihnfahl]

(Though I might be confusing it with Forgath who was also prophecized to die horribly, and then he did and came back to life too?)

Forgath was prophesied to die at the hands of another dwarf. Painfully.

Everyone took it to mean Kore.

It was Idle.

[Fyraltari]

It was worse than that, it was a song that was used in infants school, there was this whole activity with one hand on your hip with your arm as the handle, and the other arm sideways with a bend in it as the spout, then you had to keep them like that and bend sideways for the "pour me out" bit. It was supposed to be an exercise routine I think.

How did anyone construe that as exercise?

[sihnfahl]

How did anyone construe that as exercise?

Looking up the history, it was supposed to train how to do a dance routine.

I don't think it's 'exercise' per se, but more of a means to work with coordination and moving with the rhythm.

[Fyraltari]

Looking up the history, it was supposed to train how to do a dance routine.

I don't think it's 'exercise' per se, but more of a means to work with coordination and moving with the rhythm.

Ah, okay, that makes more sense already.

[Vinyadan]

Personally I would think Dies Horribly's prophecy has not been fulfilled yet because that was his whole shtick and without it he doesn't really have any character arc or narrative purpose left.
But then again Goblins' character arcs have never been really clear to me. I'm still very confused about Elli considering Chief's character arc to be "completed" (after which he came back into the story anyway, so... I don't know, man).

Personally, I feel Dies got a good arc exactly because he doesn't have a role left; his story has been told.

It also has a fairly readable structure. First part: home. At the warcamp, Dies is relatively safe and among friends, but a nervous wreck because of the prophecy. This starting balance is broken when MM & Co. attack the camp. Dies is then pushed into the second part, the adventure proper, where he has to survive in the hands of the Viper clan. During this part he meets allies and enemies and gains new powers and skills; he also solves his inner problems by surviving the prophecy. The third and final part has him empowered to defeat the Viper Clan and become physically whole again, restoring the balance.

What I don't like about this is that he actually still has a role left, hunting down the green monster, because his hand is one of two things known to hurt it greatly (the other one being the blade in the dungeon, which Grem may or may not have already recovered, I don't remember if he had it when he got out). I mean, I would have rather left him where he was. But a new team-up with Grem could be interesting, if Fox is also there.

Chief, instead, in spite of what the author said, didn't seem to have an actual arc to me. I mean, this would be his third part: in the first part, he is a leader ashamed of himself and his clan, who runs away instead of helping his goblins; in the second part (Brassmoon) he actually is risking his own hide to save one of his goblins and starts to join combat (during this chapter, he should have had his moment of defiance where he showed he wasn't ashamed of the clan any more); the third part should be his most dangerous one, but which he faces while already having the tools to win. Durkon's vampire arc could have been an example, in the sense that it's not an arc if the character has no agency, even if soul-trapped by a two-legged monster.
Instead, apparently, his arc was written as a linear crescendo in bravery until his death, and that was it. But that's just character growth, and actual arcs are generally represented as differring levels of tension (stakes) interspersed with moments of pause, recollection, and loss or acquirement instead.

[Murk]

Personally, I feel Dies got a good arc exactly because he doesn't have a role left; his story has been told.

Yea, that's largely what I meant. He's done, and there's really no reason character-wise to continue his story. Even more so because it still doesn't tie in to the other character's stories at all. Maybe now that Forgat has been clickified...?

But eh. We'll see.

[Kish]

Chief's arc: recognizing that he was never qualified to be chief, stopping upholding Young-and-Beautiful's fiction that he was, and dying heroically, saving his people the only way he could, as he was never going to be a positive for them as a living chief.

Dies-Horribly: died horribly when the demon attempted to take his soul. Letter and spirit of the prophecy fulfilled. Unless someone somewhere said "you will die horribly twice," that's it; whatever does or doesn't happen to him in the future, the prophecy will have nothing to do with it.

Forgath: died with a lot of screaming at the hands of the dwarf Idle. Letter and spirit of the prophecy fulfilled. Unless someone somewhere said "you will die twice at the hands of another dwarf," etc.

"When the serpent becomes your prey, friends will become enemies and love will fuel hate." Prophecy still extant.

Ongoing reasons for Dies-Horribly to be in the comic: The same as literally any other character. Complains-Of-Names doesn't have no reason to exist when he's not complaining about names, nor does Thaco only exist when wishing it was a previous edition.

Elli's obsession with GRIMDARK may make any of these worse writing than it otherwise could be, as with the entirely gratuitous indication that Chief is being tortured in slow time.

[Fyraltari]

The spirit of a prophecy of death is that it is the end of your life, though. What's the point of predicting someone's death if they come back to life afterward?