The Bad Batch: Season Two

[KillianHawkeye]

I would say it's because the clones were the old Republic's army first, and he wants people who are 100% loyal to himself and his Empire. Some of the clones, as we've seen, aren't fully on board with the change in military strategy.

[Palanan]

Finally caught up with recent episodes—and out of nowhere it’s suddenly really, really good.

For the first time ever with this show, I was so drawn into a scene that I felt a real pang at realizing the episode was over. After not caring for the entire first season, and barely caring for most of this one, now I’m hooked.

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The last few episodes have been all over the place. The two-parter on the mining colony was forgettable, and the only significant point was that they finally cut ties with Sid when she fracked them over one time too many.

The episode with the baby mutant Zillo beast started out promising enough, with a strong Aliens vibe, until we actually meet the baby mutant Zillo beast, and then it’s nonsense for the rest of the episode. I utterly detested the original Zillo beast from TCW, and found this even more absurd.

And then we have the bleak, brutal episode with Crosshair on the remote ice world, in which the clones are picked off one by one before realizing they’re guarding matériel for the troops who will replace them. The episode was excellent in itself—especially with the snide, prejudiced lieutenant—and single-handedly gave Crosshair more depth and interest than I’d thought possible.

After that, we’re back to goofy nonsense on some atoll planet, where—despite knowing it’s subject to repeated megatsunamis—they inexplicably fail to install an early warning system to track seismic activity, and even more inexplicably build out their city and make it tragically vulnerable to the next megatsunami. They must have had Mandalorians advising them on perimeter security.

And then we have this week’s episode, which starts with a great action sequence which ties back to the Coruscant storyline, and then picks back up with Crosshair. Love the mountain location, love the retro early-Empire feel—and love the real menace from Doctor Hemlock. I don’t know if the Doctor is a villain from somewhere else in the EU, but he’s a better villain than anything we’ve seen in the show so far. And it’s almost touching that Crosshair sacrifices the possibility of an escape for the possibility of warning the rest of the squad. I hate the guy, and yet I have to know what happens next.

And bam, I’m hooked. The pacing and story of the two Crosshair episodes are a Kaminoan’s head and shoulders above anything else in this series, and suddenly we’re firing on all cylinders. Something tells me they’re on a roll, and for the first time I’m avidly looking forward to the next episode.

[Keltest]

The big thing for me is that Hunter is a weak character. He exists to frown and be disapproving and uncertain. So when those traits are bypassed or minimized, the show gets stronger for me. Outside threats, or things he can make a clear and easy decision on, tend to be the best episodes in my opinion, and this hits all those notes.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Keltest
The big thing for me is that Hunter is a weak character. He exists to frown and be disapproving and uncertain.

I wouldn’t disagree, but I would add that until recently they’ve all been fairly weak characters. Tech has been getting a few bits and scraps of character development this season, and then there are the last couple Crosshair episodes, but otherwise they’re pretty bland and one-dimensional.

Wrecker is unfortunately “big dense moron,” when there’s no reason why he shouldn’t have the same level of intelligence as the others. As it stands, he and Grog should do lunch—preferably in some desolate wasteland.

As for Omega…

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…she seems to be the clone version of the Chosen One, and while she has a hint of actual emotional depth, it’s still pretty basic—kid on the run is sad because she has no friends her own age, etc.

I’m interested in how things will develop with the current plotlines, especially Hemlock’s plans for her (mu ha), but even so that’s only secondarily an interest in the characters themselves. And don’t get me started on the “pirate” who only steals cultural artifacts and then gives them away, which actual pirates tend not to do.

[Keltest]

I wouldn’t disagree, but I would add that until recently they’ve all been fairly weak characters. Tech has been getting a few bits and scraps of character development this season, and then there are the last couple Crosshair episodes, but otherwise they’re pretty bland and one-dimensional.

Wrecker is unfortunately “big dense moron,” when there’s no reason why he shouldn’t have the same level of intelligence as the others. As it stands, he and Grog should do lunch—preferably in some desolate wasteland.

As for Omega…

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…she seems to be the clone version of the Chosen One, and while she has a hint of actual emotional depth, it’s still pretty basic—kid on the run is sad because she has no friends her own age, etc.

I’m interested in how things will develop with the current plotlines, especially Hemlock’s plans for her (mu ha), but even so that’s only secondarily an interest in the characters themselves. And don’t get me started on the “pirate” who only steals cultural artifacts and then gives them away, which actual pirates tend not to do.

Wrecker is kind of weird because he isnt actually all that unintelligent, he's just simple. Its not like theyve ever had to, for example, send him off to go play with Omega or something when they were fixing the ship, and he is their explosives expert, which is not something you do for very long if youre stupid.

[Giggling Ghast]

The Bad Batch tends to be at its best when it’s exploring what happened to the clones following the execution of Order 66 and the rise of the Empire. As we’re seeing with recent episodes, they’re not just being forcibly retired - dissenters are being used as experimental subjects, possibly for the eventual Purge Trooper program.

Outside of that, it’s a fairly average serial adventure show. Though they are inconsequential, I don’t dislike the standalone episodes that aren’t connected to the greater story arc.

Also, I believe Hemlock is an original character. His voice actor is doing a good job of selling him as a soft-spoken sociopath.

[Palanan]

Two-part finale, and it’s outstanding. More action, intensity, story twists and character involvement in these last two episodes than the first 1.75 seasons put together.

Out of nowhere this show just went from laughable retread to high-quality action with some real soul at its core. Both parts of the finale were superb in themselves, and immensely better than anything we’ve seen from this series before.

Spoiler: Part I: Action & Cross-Purposes

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Much of the first part was great fun, an infiltration that’s a little wobbly in the details but gets the gang inside. Their plan once inside is actually logical and sensible, and more thought than usual was put into this.

I’m never glad to see Saw Guerrera, and he’s especially dense and pigheaded here. I don’t enjoy him as a character, but he’s a good example of incipient Rebel cells who are sometimes working at cross-purposes—and in fact Saw’s mission ends up obliterating and invalidating the Batch’s entire operation.

By this point in the season we’ve settled into a pattern of one solid piece of design work per episode, and Tarkin’s headquarters is a standout. They’ve leaned hard into Brutalism again, this time with a touch of classic 70s SF design, and it works beautifully. Over in the Mando thread we’ve had complaints about the rather unimaginative designs in that show, but there are some great designs in this one, even if they don’t always have the quality of story they deserve.

I enjoyed seeing Tarkin’s high-level meeting, and it’s both interesting and a little surprising to hear some of the sympathy for clones from bureaucrats at this level. Hemlock’s approach to the clones—simply Imperial property, and not really persons in any meaningful sense—further establishes him as a thoroughly amoral villain, and exactly the sort who would prosper under Tarkin’s oversight.

And they got Ben Mendelson for a voice cameo of Krennic, which is a great touch.

We end the first part on a literal cliffhanger, and while not as emotionally intense as the cliffhanger in the previous episode, it’s solid action fare and leaves everyone in genuine mortal peril. The story and writing here is suddenly far better than most of this series to date, and the only question is whether they can sustain it in the second part.

Spoiler: Part II: Tension & Loss

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We open on the cliffhanger and straight into a tense situation, which quickly ratchets up from moment to moment to “incredibly tense”—the most involved I’ve ever been in this show, and with more hard tension than most episodes of Mandalorian. I was honestly wondering how they’d ever get out of it—and then we lost Tech.

That hit more than I expected it could, and gives his cluelessness about a goodbye kiss for Phee a tragic aftertinge. Well set-up and very well done. The first six minutes of this episode are a compact masterclass in writing and visual editing for spring-loaded tension and emotional impact.

After that, we have just enough time to breathe before we’re back on Ord Mantell at Sid’s place. Her quick betrayal has shades of Lando at Cloud City, except there’s not much prospect for Sid’s redemption—nor does she deserve it. Ever since the start of this season I’ve been thinking that their safest bet is to double-tap her scaly cranium and be done with her, and at this point it looks like they really should have.

Excellent action with stormtroopers and early AT-STs—and Omega making a set of tactical errors that gets her kidnapped when she should’ve been able to escape is perfectly in character. Every plan and strategy they come up with in both parts of the finale ends up being all for naught—and yet by the end of it, Omega is right where they’ve been trying to get all along. It’s convenient but not contrived, and nicely done.

We end on a compelling double cliffhanger, and for once I’m actively looking forward to the next season. This show has made quantum leaps in quality over just the past few episodes, and now I’m completely invested.

Spoiler: Aftermath

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Everything that happened in both episodes, from Tech’s loss to Omega’s capture, is ultimately due to Saw Guerrera’s self-centered refusal to listen to anyone or anything but his own anger and hate. The writing is solid enough that it doesn’t hit us over the head with this, but ultimately Tech’s loss is fully on Saw.

Sadly we already know that the Batch doesn’t take him out themselves, but I sincerely hope they’re gunning for him next season, because he deserves it. Same goes for Sid. It was Saw’s blind stupidity that got Tech killed and drove them to take refuge with Sid—but it’s Sid’s betrayal that led to Omega’s capture. The Batch isn’t primarily driven by revenge, but at the very least Sid needs to wind up in a nice dark mineshaft on Kessel.

[Giggling Ghast]

Damn, that’s not how I thought things were going to go. O_O

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That was some proper teeth-rattling action, that was. Incredibly brutal.

Once again, Saw Guerrera’s brand of terrorism proves to be more counter-productive than anything. He completely botched the Bad Batch’s operation and indirectly gets Tech killed. That was a punch in the gut, as Tech was probably my favourite.

And of course, we finally get Cid’s betrayal, which is as infuriating as it is totally expected.

I had seen some speculation before that the red-haired assistant to Hemlock shared the same voice actress as Omega. It’s clear now that they do, and the reason is obvious - they’re both opposite-gender clones of Jango Fett, though the assistant is an aged-up version.

I’m going to throw out a theory that the “impossible” thing the Emperor wants is to clone Force-users. This was his original plan for achieving immortality. However, it was canon in Legends that the midichlorians resist attempts at cloning, and the results are … not pretty.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Giggling Ghast
Damn, that’s not how I thought things were going to go.

When you’re seriously wondering how they’ll get out of it, and you start to realize…

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…not all of them will.

Originally Posted by Giggling Ghast
Once again, Saw Guerrera’s brand of terrorism proves to be more counter-productive than anything.

I’m starting to think that the reason Saw was so paranoid by the time of Rogue One—to the point of asking Jyn if she was there to kill him—is because Rebel leadership really did try to kill him on previous occasions, precisely because of his brand.

Originally Posted by Giggling Ghast
That was a punch in the gut, as Tech was probably my favourite.

They’ve been giving Tech little humanizing touches all season, from his expanding awareness of history to the closest we’ve seen to a romantic subplot. In retrospect they were leading up to this all along, using those moments to build greater empathy with him. That was nicely done.

Originally Posted by Giggling Ghast
I had seen some speculation before that the red-haired assistant to Hemlock shared the same voice actress as Omega.

I’d been thinking their voices sounded oddly similar, but I never quite made the connection.

Originally Posted by Giggling Ghast
I’m going to throw out a theory that the “impossible” thing the Emperor wants is to clone Force-users.

Well, it’s strongly implied in Rise of Skywalker that Snoke was a cloned Force-user, so this is reasonable. Add to that the equally strong implications about tinkering with the genetics of small green Force-users in The Mandalorian, and it feels like both series are laying some groundwork for connecting the dots.

[-Sentinel-]

Are clone troopers canonically asexual?

I haven't seen all Star Wars media involving clones (notably I haven't seen The Clone Wars), but in those that I've seen, clones seem to have zero interest in sex or romance. What's-her-name's attempts to flirt with Tech seem to fly completely over his head. Omega, a teenager, doesn't seem interested in boys or girls (except as friends). In Rebels, set many years later, there is no hint that Rex and his crew of old-timers have, or have ever had, romantic partners.

It would make sense for Kaminoans to create their bio-engineered soldiers as asexual, so that they can be focused on their missions.

[Keltest]

Are clone troopers canonically asexual?

I haven't seen all Star Wars media involving clones (notably I haven's seen The Clone Wars), but in those that I've seen, clones seem to have zero interest in sex or romance. What's-her-name's attempts to flirt with Tech seem to fly completely over his head. Omega, a teenager, doesn't seem interested in boys or girls (except as friends). In Rebels, set many years later, there is no hint that Rex and his crew of old-timers have, or have ever had, romantic partners.

It would make sense for Kaminoans to create their bio-engineered soldiers as asexual, so that they can be focused on their missions.

Theres been at least one in TCW who deserted and had a wife and kids, and he actually showed up early in the Bad Batch too. Mostly I would think the clones just arent socialized enough to think in those terms.

But frankly, its still a kids show. They aren't going to show a casual hookup and the show is very much not about long term romance.

[-Sentinel-]

Theres been at least one in TCW who deserted and had a wife and kids, and he actually showed up early in the Bad Batch too.

Oh yeah, forgot about that guy.

But frankly, its still a kids show. They aren't going to show a casual hookup and the show is very much not about long term romance.

Even kids' shows often have romantic pairings. E.g. Rebels had Kanan and Hera, and clearly they had sex since [Rebels finale spoiler] Hera has Kanan's kid some time after Kanan's death. So far it looks like The Bad Batch has no romance involving any of the main characters. (Not a complaint, just an observation.)

As someone who's practically ace, I'd like to see asexuality acknowledged more often in shows, not just implied via celibacy.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by -Sentinel-
I haven't seen all Star Wars media involving clones (notably I haven’[t] seen The Clone Wars)….

As noted, there’s one episode of TCW in which a clone deserts and raises a family with a Twi’lek woman, so they’re certainly capable. Presumably they’ve been indoctrinated since birth to focus on their missions rather than personal interests.

There’s also a deleted scene in the episode that introduces the Bad Batch, in which their ship has WWII-style nose art of Padme, which really gets Anakin’s goat. Wrecker cracks a comment which makes it clear he’d gladly get involved with her, which has Anakin downright fuming, but he can’t react openly without tipping everyone off about his feelings for her.

Originally Posted by -Sentinel-
What's-her-name's attempts to flirt with Tech seem to fly completely over his head.

That’s Tech as a person rather than representative of clones as a whole.

Originally Posted by -Sentinel-
Omega, a teenager, doesn't seem interested in boys or girls (except as friends).

Omega reads as about tweenish and not there yet.

Originally Posted by -Sentinel-
So far it looks like The Bad Batch has no romance involving any of the main characters.

On the run and doing side jobs in the scuzziest parts of the galaxy isn’t a lifestyle that lends itself to healthy relationships. And the Batch seem a little too emotionally impaired, in all their various ways, to really pursue that anyway.

Originally Posted by -Sentinel-
It would make sense for Kaminoans to create their bio-engineered soldiers as asexual, so that they can be focused on their missions.

Possibly, but that would involve some major recoding, and the Kaminoans seem to have taken a minimally invasive approach with Jango’s clones. Other than accelerating growth (which isn’t that difficult) and making them more susceptible to taking orders (at least according to AoTC) they seem to have left everything else alone.

In theory, if you’re going to gengineer a clone force you’d want to go the supersoldier route, with every one of them a match for Cap and Bucky. Even in Orphan Black the Leda clones are well above average in strength, intelligence and durability. But all the Jango clones we’ve seen don’t show any sign of having been enhanced, just intensively trained. That's probably faster and cheaper, which is likely what Palps and Dooku would have wanted.

[-Sentinel-]

There’s also a deleted scene in the episode that introduces the Bad Batch, in which their ship has WWII-style nose art of Padme, which really gets Anakin’s goat. Wrecker cracks a comment which makes it clear he’d gladly get involved with her, which has Anakin downright fuming, but he can’t react openly without tipping everyone off about his feelings for her.

Okay that's hilarious.

Asexuality is kind of a spectrum, so it's possible to have little or no interest in sex while still enjoying lewd pictures.

On the run and doing side jobs in the scuzziest parts of the galaxy isn’t a lifestyle that lends itself to healthy relationships. And the Batch seem a little too emotionally impaired, in all their various ways, to really pursue that anyway.

Fair point.

Possibly, but that would involve some major recoding, and the Kaminoans seem to have taken a minimally invasive approach with Jango’s clones. Other than accelerating growth (which isn’t that difficult) and making them more susceptible to taking orders (at least according to AoTC) they seem to have left everything else alone.

That wouldn't preclude Jango himself from being ace. After all, his price for agreeing to participate in the cloning program was a clone of himself that he could raise as a son. This suggests that having a kid the normal way was something he either couldn't do, or wasn't interested in.

Perhaps the Kaminoans chose him as a blueprint for their clone army specifically because he lacked a sex drive that might make his clones harder to control or predict.

[Giggling Ghast]

Besides Cut — who appeared in Season 1 and had a family — there was a Clone trooper in the old Legends continuity who fell in love with a Jedi Knight. They got married and had a kid.

More details can be found here.

Also, Boba Fett - who is an unaltered clone of Jango Fett - is pretty enthusiastic about sexy ladies.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by -Sentinel-
After all, his price for agreeing to participate in the cloning program was a clone of himself that he could raise as a son.

That was in addition to a monetary payment, which one of the Kaminoans described as “substantial.”

Originally Posted by -Sentinel-
This suggests that having a kid the normal way was something he either couldn't do, or wasn't interested in.

Or, like the Batch, his lifestyle just isn’t conducive to that approach.

Also, dating apps in the Star Wars galaxy are probably as much of a waste of time as the ones we have here.

Originally Posted by Giggling Ghast
Also, Boba Fett - who is an unaltered clone of Jango Fett - is pretty enthusiastic about smooching ladies.

Was this in Book of Bobalorian? I’ve blocked out as much of that as I can.

[Giggling Ghast]

What? And forget all that gripping storytelling about Boba becoming the galaxy’s first non-criminal crime lord?

But in any case, in Legends continuity, Boba was actually married and had a daughter.

And even with that rendered non-canon, there was that scene in Return of the Jedi of him hanging out in Jabba’s palace with a couple of sexy ladies. See it for yourself at 2:50 and 3:10.

Granted, that’s only a couple seconds of Boba Fett/sexy lady action, but considering he only appears for six minutes in the original trilogy, that’s a substantive portion of his screen time.

[The Glyphstone]

But in any case, in Legends continuity, Boba was actually married and had a daughter.

I remember one of the short stories in Tales from Jabba's Palace, where Jabba 'loans' Leia to Boba for the night. He's quite adamant to her that he won't touch a woman he's not married to, and they end up having a debate where it's shown Boba genuinely believed he was on the right side by hunting dangerous criminals, and that he had a particularly strong animosity towards spice smugglers and drug-runners like Han. A minor thing, but I liked the image it presented.

[KillianHawkeye]

Wait, was that the finale? I'm hanging off a cliff here!

[Lord Vukodlak]

Omega reads as about tweenish and not there yet

All the Bad Batch are tweenish. Omega is actually the oldest.