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Thread: oops.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    CabbageTheif's Avatar

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    Default oops.

    hey, everyone. i was wondering if you could help with this problem.

    i told a player that he could be a psion, but now that i see what they can do i was wondering what i could do to help balance it. psionics are extremley rare in my world, so i cant make anti-psionic field wherever i want to challenge them, and i cant counter psion with psion. i also dont know if i should ust up the cr of encounters only because of one character.

    he is an elan, if that helps. he is level 13, as is the rest of the party. his last character had a very good roleplaying reason to leave, so when he asked to make a new character i skimmed and agreed to the psion, thinking that it would be a decent replacement for the wizard that we lost last year. but when i saw that he has 150 or so points, and a 'instant death' ability only costs 17 points, that means that he can do it 7 times. sure he would be spent, but......

    the one good thing is that he enjoys role playing, so if we (you, us) come up with a good development for his character he would be open to it. i can talk to him also, but i dont want to go back on my word. thank you in advance!

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Renegade Paladin's Avatar

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    Default Re: oops.

    Magic/psionics transparency is the default assumption and everything is balanced off of that. In other words, an antimagic field will shut him down just fine, wizards can counterspell his powers, and so forth.
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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: oops.

    Why do you want to "balance" him by throwing null psionics fields and the like around? Do you "balance" Wizards by erecting antimagic fields everywhere? Yes, a psion can "go nova" and spend all his points doing really powerful things, but that reduces him to uselessness for the rest of the day.

    Also, just out of curiosity, what's this "instant death" power you're talking about? Psionics generally doesn't throw around save-or-dies, though there are a few save-or-lose effects.

    EDIT: Bear in mind that you can't augment a power so that it costs more PP than you have manifester levels. A level 13 psion simply cannot use anything that costs 17 PP. That would be like giving a level 13 Wizard access to ninth-level spells.
    Last edited by Mewtarthio; 2007-12-02 at 04:54 PM.
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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    TheThan's Avatar

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    Default Re: oops.

    A power that can be augmented for additional effect is also limited by your manifester level (you canít spend more power points on a power than your manifester level).
    in other words "psionics don't work that way!"

    Aside from that, we'd need to know which power in particular you're worried about.

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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: oops.

    I'm guessing it's Psychic Crush, a rather easy power to counter, actually.

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    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: oops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    Magic/psionics transparency is the default assumption and everything is balanced off of that. In other words, an antimagic field will shut him down just fine, wizards can counterspell his powers, and so forth.
    I don't think you can counterspell a power, but certainly you can dispel lingering ones.

    To the OP, I refer you here. Psionics shouldn't be overpowered in your game so long as you make sure you know what the player can do with them. If you don't trust the player don't let him play by rules of which you're ignorant (note that this is not a concern exclusive to psionics by any means).

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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: oops.

    Like people have said, he cant start throwing out 9th level powers just because he has the power points to do so. It's true that psions can be more powerful than wizards in a single fight, just because, if they want to, they can have more of their highest level spells available than a wizard does (your 13th level psion, for example, could manifest 11 7th level powers per day). The downside to this, though, is that they will then be unable to cast anything else for the day, and, in fact, have significantly less total spells available than the wizard.

    So... basically, you're correct in thinking that a 13th level psion is overpowered, but so is a 13th level wizard or cleric or druid or archivist or even sorcerer. Just wait until you get to 15th or 17th level. You've reached the point of the game where casters start to dominate, and there's really no avoiding that (which is not to say you should just throw down antimagic fields everywhere - that just makes the character useless, and the player bored and frustrated).

    The best you can really do is try to send them up against monsters with high SR and good saves - the casters will still be powerful, if they're played well, but at least they won't be able to K.O. the monster with a single spell, and the rest of the party will get a chance to contribute.
    Last edited by CthulhuM; 2007-12-02 at 06:13 PM.
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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    CabbageTheif's Avatar

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    Default Re: oops.

    thank you all. he is a trustworthy player, i was just freaked out when the party leader warned me about the ability to do xd6 damage (x being a decent number which i cant remember) and it costing an ammount that would allow him to do it often in one encounter. looks like i need to wear the party down with a number of high-level encounters, one right after the other.... hmmm.....

    sorry about it being so vague, i really know very little about psionics. i understand the basic concept, but i am still unfamiliar with it. next question: does spell resistance=psionic resistance? how do i figue an ability to resist his powers?

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    Default Re: oops.

    Yes, SR equals PR, if you use transparency. For ability to resist powers, PR is always useful, and there's a bunch of feats that make it harder for the psion to bother people with the powers, at the cost of being useful only against psionics (because, strangely, this feats don't apply to magic, contradicting the transparency). Other than that, I don't know what you mean.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: oops.

    Heck, a number of low level encounters all in a row would work too. Ideally you have as encounters of a challenge rating equal to the party average level as you have party members before the spellcasters (and psychics) are allowed a chance to recharge.
    yo

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    Default Re: oops.

    Always use magic/psionic transparency. That cannot be stressed enough when using psionics. Non transparency is a poorly thought out variant rule that, for all the reasons you said, reeks havoc with game balance that should only be trotted out with extremely good reason on the DM's part.

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    Default Re: oops.

    And if you're using it, might as well up the ante with psionic prodigy, which boosts the DC's of your powers by 1 and adds an effective +2 to your key stat when determining how many bonus PP you get. Really broken at high levels, I say.

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    RedSorcererGirl

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    Default Re: oops.

    zach, who are you letting play a psion?

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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: oops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brennus View Post
    Always use magic/psionic transparency. That cannot be stressed enough when using psionics. Non transparency is a poorly thought out variant rule that, for all the reasons you said, reeks havoc with game balance that should only be trotted out with extremely good reason on the DM's part.
    I don't, but then again, I tend to throw just as many psionics users as magic users at my players. You can't have a psion in your party and act like hes a wizard. It. Just. Doesn't. Work.

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    Default Re: oops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquaseafoam View Post
    I don't, but then again, I tend to throw just as many psionics users as magic users at my players. You can't have a psion in your party and act like hes a wizard. It. Just. Doesn't. Work.
    Using transparency isn't about treating psions and wizards the same, it's about making sure that a potent caster isn't immune to all the normal tools you'd use to keep a full caster in check. If in your game world dispel psionics and power resistance are just as common as dispel magic and spell resistance then their shouldn't be much of problem. However, most people don't take these things into account and end up with broken psionics under the non transparency rules.
    Last edited by Da Beast; 2007-12-02 at 11:08 PM.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: oops.

    In addition, if you feel that there needs to be some psionic-to-psionic interaction than you can always have an extraplanar invasion/travel to a plane where psionics are very common and traditional magic is rare. I've seen it work pretty well.

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