Mega-Dungeon help

[Bayar]

I have a slightly different question... In a system where you can potentially learn to use all magics, and players are basically expected to learn magic at some point, what's the point of Use Magic Device as a Skill?

Casting spells and using magical devices might be two different things. To paraphrase Stargate: "just because someone can read the symbols on a keyboard doesn't mean he knows how to use a computer".

[Beni-Kujaku]

Learning to use any magic isn't learning to use all magic. UMD is a get out of jail free card if your healing-centered character wants to throw a fireball for once.

[AOKost]

Casting spells and using magical devices might be two different things. To paraphrase Stargate: "just because someone can read the symbols on a keyboard doesn't mean he knows how to use a computer".

That... actually makes way too much sense... And I might use some system like a "stargate network" as portals... but that's just a passing though... So in my games, if you want to use a magic item that requires activation... they need to make a Use Magic Device... Unless they actually have the spell learned? That seems like a fair exchange.

[AOKost]

Learning to use any magic isn't learning to use all magic. UMD is a get out of jail free card if your healing-centered character wants to throw a fireball for once.

Not a bad suggestion, but there is no difference in my system between Arcane / Divine / Psionic... They all fall under their own Spellcraft (School / Discipline) that can be picked up independently.. thus, as long as you're putting ranks in Spellcraft (Conjuration), you can learn to cast healing spells just as easily as you can learn any other magics.

I also use a Mana system, giving one point of mana per rank in Spellcraft, cumulative, with 'bonus mana' as per Power Points rules... This comes just about to be equal to either an Egoist or Psions Power Points (I don't remember off hand, but I did try to make it roughly equivalent by level 20).

Spellcraft (Universal) must be purchased before any other school or discipline of equal rank may be purchased (so you can't pick up your first or latter ranks in Abjuration without at least having that many ranks in Universal first).

Though... I make the cost of casting equal to the spell level, not the level it can be gained at which in my system would be 1 level higher than normal, because in my system, the way you determine the level of spell you can cast, you divide the number of ranks in a given school in half.. 1st rank grants access to all appropriate cantrips, while each even rank only allows you the potential to learn that level of spells, it doesn't automatically grant them.

You learn spells like a Wizard and do require a spellbook (unless you've figured out how to not need one, maybe by taking Spell Mastery as many times as you want, or embedding a Spell Crystal within yourself that only you can access to prevent loss, or who knows what will be thought of), and can change them all out in the morning with an hour of study, or you can take 5 minutes / level of spell to exchange 'memorized' spells for spells you know and have within a spellbook (or equivalent) that you have with you.

You can memorize a number of spells equal to your primary casting Modifier / spell level you're able to cast, but no more than your modifier in total per level (this i added here just to help prevent misunderstandings that, for example, if your primary spellcasting modifier is +5, then you can only memorize a maximum of 5 spells per spell level you can cast, not for each school / discipline), and you cast (basically) as a spontaneous spellcaster..

This does a number of things... It gives far more flexibility to anyone that wants to be a 'caster' and gives more opportunity to utilize their magics, while also allowing a character to decide to specialize in what magics they want to learn by where they place their ranks.

Warlocks (and what I prefer far more, the Avowed, pathfinder warlock rewrite that I haven't seen in publication yet, which really hurts my heart) abilities are also available, with all the 'pacts' and 'essences' but in my game they are described as what "Sorcerer" should have been... without requiring a patron, though you can have one if you find it thematically fitting for your character.

Trust me, I completely understand this is a complete overhaul of magic and psionics, as well as the game in general, and that's why I'm not asking for help on mechanics other than asking about UMD as a random thought.. I more explain all this due to rambling late at night as I take care of the baby and trying to help everyone understand that my game is quite different than most, aside from the mega-dungeon I'm trying to build... My players very well could end up skipping entire areas or floors in their delving... and may even return if they're smart, but I still need help with names and descriptions of places, especially the Cities within the layers.. I mean, I likely could go to some random name generator online, and try to autogen some cities with the populace dichotomies I'm looking for... But I would far rather have the help of the community help come up with some really fleshed out and unique ideas...

Maybe:

The arboreal hanging gardens of the Forest elves on the 2nd layer is only one of many Elven Cities on the level, each containing a different 'kind' of "base" elves, each with their own city architecture..

What does everyone think about this thought experiment?

[AOKost]

Learning to use any magic isn't learning to use all magic. UMD is a get out of jail free card if your healing-centered character wants to throw a fireball for once.

I could also incorporate "Use Technology" if there's an equivalent (I haven't looked too much into the crossover between Pathfinder and Starfinder).. And this could be exactly what I need... You can use it to activate magic devices that have spells you don't know how to use / haven't taken ranks in the appropriate Spellcraft... And to interact / use "advanced" technology...