What's with Sorcerer's being related to everything?

[Zeful]

A lot of people seem to believe that Sorcerers are related to some powerful outsider/dragon/ooze/etc. Why is that? It says in the PHb that some Sorcerers claim a relation to dragons and that it could very well be a boast of sorcerers or rumors of those envious (or fearful) of the sorcerer's talents. And yes Dragons have innate sorcerer spellcasting as they grow up. How ever why do items/feats that remove or bypass the sorcerer limitations (fixed spells known, returning metamagic to 3.0 normal and so on) require some absurd sexual relation with something other than human/elven/normal PHb race. Even the so called ultimate sorcerer 'fix' had this problem, you picked a bloodline at onset but there were no rules for not having a bloodline.

Being very pro-sorc I find that pidgeon-holeing the sorc into being related to a monster is as silly as saying all wizards can only cast evocation and necromancry spells despite there being nearly five other schools of magic on the wiz/sorc spell list, or that rangers must be emo Drizzt clones, it doesn't make sense.
Can someone explain to me why all the good sorcerer feats require the character's great-great-great-great-great-grandmother to have been raped by some dragon/celestial/fey/whatever?

[Solo]

Can someone explain to me why all the good sorcerer feats require the character's great-great-great-great-great-grandmother to have been raped by some dragon/celestial/fey/whatever?

The only good sorcerer feats are metamagic feats, prestige class prerequisites, and other things that make his spellcasting more powerful.

[brian c]

Well, there has to be a reason that some people have innate connections with magic. Most people can't just start casting spells, they have to learn all about it first, or be granted the power by their gods. The best way to explain why some humans (and elves, and gnomes, etc) have innate magical power is that they have a connection to one of the races (dragons, fey, demons) that all have magical powers.

[Kantolin]

Well, there has to be a reason that some people have innate connections with magic.

For some reason.

I mean, you've got a world where a bit of study means you can fire lazers from your eyes and turn people into potatoes... but when sorcerors do it, it has to come from somewhere else.

Either way, though, that does seem to be D&D's intent. I usually house rule that away immediately; it's mostly fluff as is, so removing it isn't a big deal.

[Zincorium]

Because it was a half-arsed fluff attempt on WotC's part to distinguish sorcerors from wizards.

Because other than the casting mechanism and ability stat (which bards use) the sorceror is 90% identical to a wizard. They are squishy arcane casters that blow things up with the exact same spells as they're page-turning counterparts.*

So they threw something in about sorcerors getting their power from being sort of related to something magically powerful, then made everyone that followed stick to the same story.

*As a side note, I generally disallow either wizards or sorcerors in any given game I DM. I don't see the point in having both.

[brian c]

For some reason.

I mean, you've got a world where a bit of study means you can fire lazers from your eyes and turn people into potatoes... but when sorcerors do it, it has to come from somewhere else.

Either way, though, that does seem to be D&D's intent. I usually house rule that away immediately; it's mostly fluff as is, so removing it isn't a big deal.

D&D distinguishes between learned magic and natural magic. Wizards learn, sorcerers have it naturally. If you don't like that distinction, and if you want everyone to be natural or everyone learning, then you don't need both classes.

[holywhippet]

Consider that kobolds, a draconic race which has it's origins in the distant past from dragons, have a preferred class of sorcerer. That's a fairly blatent hint that dragon blood = sorcerous potential.

From a nuts and bolts point of view, you kind of need something to explain how some people just get magical powers out of nowhere. They don't even need to glance at a spellbook. Heck, they don't even need to practice their magic. They could spend a week shooting goblins with crossbow bolts and suddenly they can cast more spells.

[Mewtarthio]

D&D distinguishes between learned magic and natural magic. Wizards learn, sorcerers have it naturally.

And what about Bards?

[Dark Knight Renee]

The way I see it, WotC went slightly overboard with the sorcerer stereotype they established and apparently forgot that it was only a stereotype. I like to think, however, that all those feats involving bizarre heritage indicate that bizarre heritage can give a sorcerer stronger (kinda-sorta) powers than are available to one without. Or something along those lines.

[brian c]

And what about Bards?

Bards suck.

[bugsysservant]

What angers me is that the heritedge feats are limited to sorcerors. Its bad enough that to cast a spell naturally you have to be descended from dracophiles (or demonophiles, or whatever), but if you are descended from them, YOU ARE AUTOMATICALLY A SORCEROR? Here you have kobolds, little lizard like dragon spawn running around, with sorceror as only a favored class, but a human who is 1/100th dragon has to be a sorceror? And sorcerors aren't all about casting spells, they're also about lacking physical toughness, ergo the d4 hit die. Yet dragons are all about physical toughness. So even though you're descended from a creature many times stronger than the average human, and you spend you're youth training in the general's army, you're going to have as many hitpoints as the little bookworm who spent his childhood using his inhaler so the dust from the musty tomes doesn't trigger an asthma attack? Sometimes I just hate WoTC.

[Zeful]

Consider that kobolds, a draconic race which has it's origins in the distant past from dragons, have a preferred class of sorcerer. That's a fairly blatent hint that dragon blood = sorcerous potential.

From a nuts and bolts point of view, you kind of need something to explain how some people just get magical powers out of nowhere. They don't even need to glance at a spellbook. Heck, they don't even need to practice their magic. They could spend a week shooting goblins with crossbow bolts and suddenly they can cast more spells.

A lot of the fluff of the sorcerer class seems to indicate that their casting need not come from dragons or etc. but all the supliments seem to ignore that fact. So in order to be an effective sorcerer I must be the great-to-the-umpteeth-power grandson of a dragon/fey/ooze/etc. and embrace my heritage (Take heritage and bloodline feats) or forever cast all metamagics as full-round actions?

It's pidgeon-holeing Sorcerer characters in a way that the other classes don't have, just to pidgeon-hole them.

[de-trick]

so in character you know where there powers come from

clerics = gods(cause)
druid = nature
bards = music
paladin = god
ranger = nature
wizard = spellbook(study)
sorcerer = blood(heritage)

[Solo]

A lot of the fluff of the sorcerer class seems to indicate that their casting need not come from dragons or etc. but all the supliments seem to ignore that fact. So in order to be an effective sorcerer I must be the great-to-the-umpteeth-power grandson of a dragon/fey/ooze/etc. and embrace my heritage (Take heritage and bloodline feats) or forever cast all metamagics as full-round actions?

It's pidgeon-holeing Sorcerer characters in a way that the other classes don't have, just to pidgeon-hole them.

For the last time, heritage and bloodline feats suck compared to feats that boost your spellcasting potential like metamagic feats.

You don't build an effective sorcerer with bloodline feats, you just build a flavorful sorcerer.

[Mewtarthio]

bards = music

How in the name of Pelor do you get magical power from music?

[Solo]

How in the name of Pelor do you get magical power from music?

That's a very good question.

To answer it,
Let's start at the very beginning,
A very good place to start...

[bugsysservant]

How in the name of Pelor do you get magical power from music?

By taking levels in bard. DUH!

[tyckspoon]

What angers me is that the heritedge feats are limited to sorcerors. Its bad enough that to cast a spell naturally you have to be descended from dracophiles (or demonophiles, or whatever), but if you are descended from them, YOU ARE AUTOMATICALLY A SORCEROR? Here you have kobolds, little lizard like dragon spawn running around, with sorceror as only a favored class, but a human who is 1/100th dragon has to be a sorceror? And sorcerors aren't all about casting spells, they're also about lacking physical toughness, ergo the d4 hit die. Yet dragons are all about physical toughness. So even though you're descended from a creature many times stronger than the average human, and you spend you're youth training in the general's army, you're going to have as many hitpoints as the little bookworm who spent his childhood using his inhaler so the dust from the musty tomes doesn't trigger an asthma attack? Sometimes I just hate WoTC.

Er..what? You are entirely free to choose *not* to take levels in sorcerer, you know.. no matter how much 'dragon blood' the character has, it has no mechanical effects unless the character is built with classes, races, and feats that make it have a mechanical effect.

[de-trick]

The power of the rhythm, beat, and all the bardness goodness

[Zeful]

Before the PHbII came out they needed a feat to even use metamagic effectivally. The Draginomicon (or Races of Dragons) had a feat that would return 'normal' metamagic fuctions but you needed to have the Dragon Heritage feat from that book. You might as well just 'embrace' your dragonness so that you canget full use out of one silly feat.

[Chronos]

How in the name of Pelor do you get magical power from music?

If we knew that, we'd all be bards, now wouldn't we?

[bugsysservant]

Er..what? You are entirely free to choose *not* to take levels in sorcerer, you know.. no matter how much 'dragon blood' the character has, it has no mechanical effects unless the character is built with classes, races, and feats that make it have a mechanical effect.

The feat is "draconic heritage" not "draconic heritage which emerges over the course of years by shooting lasers from my eyes and meditating and whatnot." To be a descendent of dragons, you take the feat, just like to have a character that jumps far, you boost jump. Its just one more example of a feat/class/race/alignment shoe horning the character into idiotic fluff. And to take the feat, you have to be a sorceror.

This is magnified by the fluff that sorcerors just sort of happen, manifesting their powers automatically. So, if I spent the years living in the forest, communing with nature, and learning the way of the [insert animal or plant here] from a mentor druid, I can never be a druid, I'm forced to be physically weaker, ignorant of the weapons he showed me, and unable to channel nature's power. Unless I kill random monsters for a while. Because killing things works like that.

[brian c]

If we knew that, we'd all be bards, now wouldn't we?

I still wouldn't be.

[Kantolin]

D&D distinguishes between learned magic and natural magic. Wizards learn, sorcerers have it naturally.

That again doesn't quite fit. Some people have to go study forever to learn to play the flute. Other people just kind of do it.

Your intrinsic talents need not come from great-great-grandma Bessie thinking dragons are cute.

[tyckspoon]

The feat is "draconic heritage" not "draconic heritage which emerges over the course of years by shooting lasers from my eyes and meditating and whatnot." To be a descendent of dragons, you take the feat, just like to have a character that jumps far, you boost jump. Its just one more example of a feat/class/race/alignment shoe horning the character into idiotic fluff. And to take the feat, you have to be a sorceror.

This is magnified by the fluff that sorcerers just sort of happen, manifesting their powers automatically. So, if I spent the years living in the forest, communing with nature, and learning the way of the [insert animal or plant here] from a mentor druid, I can never be a druid, I'm forced to be physically weaker, ignorant of the weapons he showed me, and unable to channel nature's power. Unless I kill random monsters for a while. Because killing things works like that.

I have no idea what the hell you're talking about. What exactly is preventing you from taking a level of Druid in keeping with that training? Or is it that you are somehow convinced that the only possible way to reflect a draconic heritage is to take the sorcerous heritage feat for dragons, one of a number of similar feats that are, yes, intended to be used by sorcerers and also come in outsider, fey, elemental, and even aberrant flavors?

[Behold_the_Void]

The power of the rhythm, beat, and all the bardness goodness

Damn straight.

Osu!

[Nattypat]

This is magnified by the fluff that sorcerors just sort of happen, manifesting their powers automatically. So, if I spent the years living in the forest, communing with nature, and learning the way of the [insert animal or plant here] from a mentor druid, I can never be a druid, I'm forced to be physically weaker, ignorant of the weapons he showed me, and unable to channel nature's power. Unless I kill random monsters for a while. Because killing things works like that.

Thats not true, eventually you'd get enough Role-Playing XP.

[MCerberus]

In case anyone is interested I've been mulling over a few alternative "how he got his powers" thoughts for sorcs (and if you go by PhB the sorcs could just be pretending to have powers via heritage).

X-man/What the hell I have magic - They're just pretty much freaks. The ability to cast magic kind of came out of left field. Maybe they're just lucky or unlucky, maybe they were born under the right stars. Whatever the case, they have magic and no idea where they got it.

Chosen one - The powers that be gifted the person with magic powers, or perhaps some crazy cult did it to bring about the end of the world. If it weren't for them being singled out by someone or something, they would have had normal lives.

"It runs in the family" - That whole dragon thing is just some BS made up to make sorcerers sound better. One of their parents was a sorcerer (maybe both), so now they are. In a world where magic is so pervasive that a drunk wizard can make a freaking Owlbear, who's to say that some series of genes dpesn't make one more sensitive to the ebb and flow of magic?

You too can be a sorcerer - This kind of sorcerer stumbled onto the dirty little secret of the class, you don't need to be born a sorcerer. They have opened their mind to new ways of thinking of magic and are slowly learning to bend reality through their will.

[AstralFire]

My sorcerers usually are of that last kind, MCerberus.

[SadisticFishing]

Not all sorcerors have draconic/outsider/wtv blood, just most.