The Mandalorian Season 3

[Peelee]

I am not allowed idle curiosity?

Sorry, I assumed it was a complaint/issue since that's what all the rest were. My bad.

Kind of makes me wonder how the Mandalorians survived this long.

We dont see how but we do see they are decent at surviving and regrowing their numbers.

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We're not talking about a wampa here. First, that's not a creature, that's a person who is using advanced technology and can speak and second, it's the episode's main antagonist, one with a pretty nifty concept, I might add. A bit of clarity on what they're doing here and why would have been appreciated.

Basically, I'm not saying the episode was bad, but it felt very mechanical to me, more like ticking boxes to make the plot move forward than telling a story really. I wasn't as engaged as I'd hoped for.

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The ice spiders were the main antagonist in a previous episode, just doing ice spider things.

But aside from that, I kind of like how we are limited in knowing what it is like the main character is. Makes the world seem more fleshed out to me, not knowing who everyone is and what they're doing. Like the druids.

As for not being engaged, well, tou can't be wrong on that, and im sad it didn't click for you like it did for me.

[Fyraltari]

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The ice spiders were the main antagonist in a previous episode, just doing ice spider things.

But aside from that, I kind of like how we are limited in knowing what it is like the main character is.

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Wildlife defending their nest is rather self-explanatory. Random Gunnm looking motherhugger rocking three different robot bodies on an abandonned planet populated by stone-age-tech alien and laying ambushes to suck people's blood with a cattle prod is in a different boat.

Makes the world seem more fleshed out to me, not knowing who everyone is and what they're doing. Like the druids.

Is this a reference I'm not getting?

As for not being engaged, well, tou can't be wrong on that, and im sad it didn't click for you like it did for me.

We'll see where this goes.

[Peelee]

Is this a reference I'm not getting?

The full movie is glorious. All you need is the first 40 seconds, but I recommend the whole clip.

Also, if you ever get the chance to see it with audio commentary, DO. The actors do it all in-character and in-universe so it's basically a second movie.

ETA: The blonde guitarist is also a lawyer with electromagnetic sensitivity who is definitely not crazy. There's a whole transcriot from a bar hearing on how hes not crazy.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Fyraltari
Random Gunnm looking….

I had to look that one up, and I still don’t quite see the resemblance.

As for not knowing precisely what this creature is…

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…I agree with previous comments that not knowing actually improves the scene. Leaving the creature and its motives unknown puts the audience closer to Mando’s perspective, which for me heightens the dread and the raw creepiness. Fear is only sharpened when the mind doesn’t have all the answers, and that was done very well here.

[Peelee]

I had to look that one up, and I still don’t quite see the resemblance.

As for not knowing precisely what this creature is…

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…I agree with previous comments that not knowing actually improves the scene. Leaving the creature and its motives unknown puts the audience closer to Mando’s perspective, which for me heightens the dread and the raw creepiness. Fear is only sharpened when the mind doesn’t have all the answers, and that was done very well here.

Exactly. Mad Max: Fury Road also used this incredibly effectively.

[Fyraltari]

I had to look that one up, and I still don’t quite see the resemblance.

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I was specifically thinking of Makaku, who is basically a head with an habit of attaching and detaching himself from various host bodies.

As for not knowing precisely what this creature is…

I didn't ask for precision.

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…I agree with previous comments that not knowing actually improves the scene. Leaving the creature and its motives unknown puts the audience closer to Mando’s perspective, which for me heightens the dread and the raw creepiness. Fear is only sharpened when the mind doesn’t have all the answers, and that was done very well here.

I'm glad that worked for you, but it didn't feel creepy or frightful to me, just random. To me this kind of narrative device works when you're given at least some hints at an explanation. Or when it is found in a place where the unusual is to be expected.

Here, it seems to me that the writers needed

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someone to neutralize Mando so that Grogu would have to fetch Bo-Katan and didn't give much thought as to how this antagonist fits the ruins of Mandalore.

*

Edit:

Exactly. Mad Max: Fury Road also used this incredibly effectively.

The difference is that the world of Mad Max is always at the same level of surrealism. It is a world gone insane where bikers in bdsm(gear roam the roads fighting people worshipping the V8 engine while a blind and deaf bard plays a flamethrower-guitar on huge loudspeakers. In this place, you don't question the swamp-dwellers dressed as human crows walking on stilts (and even then, stiltis are a very good way to navigate that kind of terrain). In contrast, Star Wars, and the Mandalorian tend to explain everything.

[Peelee]

The difference is that the world of Mad Max is always at the same level of surrealism. It is a world gone insane where bikers in bdsm(gear roam the roads fighting people worshipping the V8 engine while a blind and deaf bard plays a flamethrower-guitar on huge loudspeakers. In this place, you don't question the swamp-dwellers dressed as human crows walking on stilts (and even then, stiltis are a very good way to navigate that kind of terrain).

Yeah, i have to agree here, the planet Mandalore was a desolated shell of a world, a vast wasteland devastated by war where monstrous beings barely manage to eke out survival under harsh conditions and have crazy things like mechanically minded people who kidnap you and drain your blood. Nothing like Mad Max world at all.

Also, what was with the ice planet in Empire Strikes Back? Star Wars was known for its three world types: desert, jungle, and artificial space station. I'd expect snow from The Grinch Stope Christmas or something, not Star Wars!

In contrast, Star Wars, and the Mandalorian tend to explain everything.

"Tend to" does not mean "always does for everything ever". Might I suggest you temper your expectations?

[Keltest]

I didn't ask for precision.

In that case, its a big dumb monster thing there to cause problems for Mando.

Which I felt to be pretty self evident, frankly.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Fyraltari
Or when it is found in a place where the unusual is to be expected.

Such as, for instance, the ruined catacombs of the bombed-out remnants of an ancient civilization. Can't imagine there would be anything down there.

[Fyraltari]

Yeah, i have to agree here, the planet Mandalore was a desolated shell of a world, a vast wasteland devastated by war where monstrous beings barely manage to eke out survival under harsh conditions and have crazy things like mechanically minded people who kidnap you and drain your blood. Nothing like Mad Max world at all.

We are talking about a difference in style. The fact that this episode takes place on a ruined planet doesn't change how the Mandalorian presents itself. Its roots are western, its tone is rugged practicality, not the wild abandon of the post apocalypse. Even in this episode, we see Din check the atmosphere of the planet for toxins and isolate himself and Grogu, this is dissonance.

Also, what was with the ice planet in Empire Strikes Back? Star Wars was known for its three world types: desert, jungle, and artificial space station. I'd expect snow from The Grinch Stope Christmas or something, not Star Wars!

I have no idea what you are trying to say here

"Tend to" does not mean "always does for everything ever". Might I suggest you temper your expectations?

You, brought up Mad Max as an example of a work that does the bizarre and unexplained well. I am explaining to you that the reason it works there, is because the very world of Mad Max is bizarre and crazy. It's a world that revels in being over-the-top and disjointed, populated solely by colourful excentrics. It is part of its identity, of its message about the human condition.

Star Wars could do that, but The Mandalorian isn't doing that, it's not even attempting to do that. You can't say that the show suddenly operates under different narrative rules and a different style for fifteen minutes and then go back to normal talking about the politics of the royal house of Mandalore immediately afterwards.

[Peelee]

I have no idea what you are trying to say here

That was a preparatory rebuttal to this:

We are talking about a difference in style. The fact that this episode takes place on a ruined planet doesn't change how the Mandalorian presents itself. Its roots are western, its tone is rugged practicality, not the wild abandon of the post apocalypse.

Its a big galaxy, the planets can be different and different planets give different feels.

I was hoping to use that to cut off any "but it wasnt like that before" rebuttals that were the most obvious (albeit incorrect) response to what i said, but alas.

[Mechalich]

In that case, its a big dumb monster thing there to cause problems for Mando.

Which I felt to be pretty self evident, frankly.

We can glean a bit more than that from it's appearance and actions.

It's some kind of cyborg organism, with an organic brain attached to multiple droid interfaces (which is something that goes back to the OT) and it needs organic matter, or at least blood, to survive/restore itself. Best guess is that it's a survivor of the imperial bombardment who, upon having their body receive catastrophic damage, extracted their brain and tacked it on to a droid interface and is now thoroughly insane.

There is some mild thematic dissonance in that Mando usual faces more conventional opponents and stays out of the weird side of Star Wars. Compared to a character like Dr. Aphra, who fights freakish things like this on all days that end in y. However, it seems like this season is going to be a bit more unconventional and expansive especially in terms of visual designs. I mean, Episode One featured a Dragon Turtle and pirate captain Swamp Thing. The design workshop behind the show is going for it.

[Fyraltari]

In that case, its a big dumb monster thing there to cause problems for Mando.

Which I felt to be pretty self evident, frankly.

This isn't an explanation and you know it.

Such as, for instance, the ruined catacombs of the bombed-out remnants of an ancient civilization. Can't imagine there would be anything down there.

Yeh, and if the alien had anything to do with Mandalore, I'd be fine with it. Like, if the trap was made of repurposed MAndalorian armors and broken down Imperial tech for example. But they look entirely foreign to the place. When I said somewhere the unusual is expected, I meant more something like the cantina scene in ANH or the Jabba's palace in RotJ places where people from many different horizons congregate and that serves to showcase how diverse the galaxy can be.

That was a preparatory rebuttal to this:
Its a big galaxy, the planets can be different and different planets give different feels.

Okay, two things:
1) The "feel" of Mandalore in the rest of episode isn't a anything-can-happen wildness, it's the somber longing for past glories. We're shown the vast ruins of a once-prosperous place and told how beautiful it used to be. A pristine city reduced to rubbles, haunted by the primitives its inhabitants used to look down upon. And then there's a cyborg with tow fully functional robot-bodies collecting blood samples. That fits about as well as the American Graffiti kids did on Tatooine.

2) Planets may have a feel to them, but that is secondary to the "feel" or tone of the show itself. The Mandalorian has an overall grounded feel, wherein antagonists are somewhat explained. Be it as pirates, henchmen, soldiers or whatever.

And hell, if this whole episode had been like this, if nothing had made sense from the moment Din & Grogu set foot on Mandalore, the descent towards the Waters being paralled by a descent into madness as everything gets crazy the lower you get, I wouldn't complain. It wouldn't fit The Madalorian, but in this case the dissonance would have been to the episode benefits as it'd emphazise just how broken Mandalore itself had become. But as it is, this sequence doesn't even fit with the tone of the episode its in.

I was hoping to use that to cut off any "but it wasnt like that before" rebuttals that were the most obvious (albeit incorrect) response to what i said, but alas.

Then you haven't understood what my issue with the scene is, becauset's not that "it wasn't like that before".

Moving on, that R5 is supposed to be the one that Owen Lars ended up not, buying right?

[Keltest]

As far as the weird side of Star Wars goes, I think stuff like this does an excellent job of helping to explain why Mandalore would be seen as being cursed rather than just flattened. Its hardly the first planet to be orbitally bombarded in Star Wars after all.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Mechalich
Best guess is that it's a survivor of the imperial bombardment who, upon having their body receive catastrophic damage, extracted their brain and tacked it on to a droid interface and is now thoroughly insane.

Pretty much what I was thinking. Likely someone or something already down in the catacombs, managed to survive the initial bombardment and subsequent chaos, modified itself as needed, and now makes do with whatever scraps it can scavenge or capture.

Originally Posted by Fyraltari
The fact that this episode takes place on a ruined planet doesn't change how the Mandalorian presents itself. Its roots are western, its tone is rugged practicality, not the wild abandon of the post apocalypse. Even in this episode, we see Din check the atmosphere of the planet for toxins and isolate himself and Grogu, this is dissonance.

I’m just not grokking the dissonance. I’m also not sure how checking atmo as a concept is an issue—although as I noted earlier, there’s an issue in practice that renders the whole thing moot.

As for the post-apocalypse, you can’t explore Mandalore in the post-Imperial era without that vibe, because as they’ve defined it, the Empire brought the literal apocalypse to Mandalore. Savage mutants and freaky cyborg scavengers are just a natural part of that ecosystem.

Is it different from what we usually see in Star Wars? Yes, and more power to it. I can’t recall seeing a planet this thoroughly devastated before, and that opens up new thematic possibilities.

I’m personally happy with that. I’ve already seen plenty of stormtroopers and recycled monsters. I’m very glad to see a more creative and creepy side of the Star Wars galaxy.

[Peelee]

The "feel" of Mandalore in the rest of episode isn't a anything-can-happen wildness, it's the somber longing for past glories.

We clearly got very different feels from the episode.

Moving on, that R5 is supposed to be the one that Owen Lars ended up not, buying right?

Yep! He's even got a little scorch mark where his motivator blew. You can also see this in lrevious episodes with him in it.

As far as the weird side of Star Wars goes, I think stuff like this does an excellent job of helping to explain why Mandalore would be seen as being cursed rather than just flattened. Its hardly the first planet to be orbitally bombarded in Star Wars after all.

Exactly.

Is it different from what we usually see in Star Wars? Yes, and more power to it. I canÂ’t recall seeing a planet this thoroughly devastated before, and that opens up new thematic possibilities.

Taris was pretty bad back in the KOTORs and SWOTOR.

[Keltest]

Taris was pretty bad back in the KOTORs and SWOTOR.

Telos too.

[Peelee]

Telos too.

And Paragus II. And Malachor V.

Come to think of it, Mandalore most closely resembles Malachor in canon.

[Keltest]

And Paragus II. And Malachor V.

Come to think of it, Mandalore most closely resembles Malachor in canon.

In fairness, Paragus started off that way.

[Fyraltari]

I’m just not grokking the dissonance.

Look I'm not saying you're watching the show wrong, I'm just saying why this scene felt out of place for me.

I’m also not sure how checking atmo as a concept is an issue

It's not. But it's a show of practicality and groundedness that doesn't jive with the "mad max" vibe the episode allegedly has. You don't see Max checking the tires of the cars he commandeers, see?

As for the post-apocalypse, you can’t explore Mandalore in the post-Imperial era without that vibe, because as they’ve defined it, the Empire brought the literal apocalypse to Mandalore.

Yeah you can. You could have no life at all on the planet for example.

Savage mutants and freaky cyborg scavengers are just a natural part of that ecosystem.

There were no mutants or in the episode though. Unless you assume that guy was a mutant? I'm not sure they were a scavenger either.

I’m personally happy with that. I’ve already seen plenty of stormtroopers and recycled monsters. I’m very glad to see a more creative and creepy side of the Star Wars galaxy.

Again, creative and creepy isn't the problem. I want more creative designs and that was an excellent design. It's the randomness of it.

Yep! He's even got a little scorch mark where his motivator blew. You can also see this in lrevious episodes with him in it.

I was waiting to see if his lack of desire for adventures would prompt a comment about motivators, but it didn't happen.

Come to think of it, Mandalore most closely resembles Malachor in canon.

I'd say Canon!Malachor is the closest match to Legends!Malachor.

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In fairness, Paragus started off that way.

I don't know about Paragus, but Peragus blew up in a mining accident, which is why blasters are forbidden in the facilty. And then you* blow it up more.

*Or Sion, but since you'll the blame either way, might as well.

[Peelee]

It's not a good idea to be a planet in the KOTOR series, I think the lesson here is.

[Fyraltari]

It's not a good idea to be a planet in the KOTOR series, I think the lesson here is.

Okay but, "Pretty good, right? With one shot, I destroyed two planets!" is one hell of a line.

[Peelee]

Okay but, "Pretty good, right? With one shot, I destroyed two planets!" is one hell of a line.

A.) Yes. Yes it is.
2.) It's really not a good idea to be a planet in the KOTOR series, I think the lesson here is.

[Keltest]

Personally I always hated that people treated it like you were the only one responsible for all the bad things going on in the galaxy, as if youre the only one with any agency. It makes sense for Kreia, given how meta her general philosophical stance is, but everybody else, GOTO in particular, seems to act like its your fault that other people keep doing things like bringing warships into Peragus, or whatever else you get blamed for that you realistically have no ability to influence.

[Fyraltari]

Personally I always hated that people treated it like you were the only one responsible for all the bad things going on in the galaxy, as if youre the only one with any agency. It makes sense for Kreia, given how meta her general philosophical stance is, but everybody else, GOTO in particular, seems to act like its your fault that other people keep doing things like bringing warships into Peragus, or whatever else you get blamed for that you realistically have no ability to influence.

I mean I remember that kind of talk coming from Atris and the Jedi, who are meant to be unlikable jackasses and G0-T0 who you unfortunately habe to tolerate for some reason, but is literally malfunctioning.

[Keltest]

I mean I remember that kind of talk coming from Atris and the Jedi, who are meant to be unlikable jackasses and G0-T0 who you unfortunately habe to tolerate for some reason, but is literally malfunctioning.

G0-T0 explains that you have to tolerate him because if you don't then he will self destruct and blow up the ship, in fact. I don't know if the dissonance is supposed to be deliberate or if its just bad writing, because when he has you on his ship he flat out tells you simultaneously that he wants you to do things for him, and also that he will absolutely under no circumstances let you off his ship to do those things for him.

However, a lot of the responses seem to indicate that we are intended to take the criticisms at face value.

[Mechalich]

Kotor II is one of several pieces of Legends EU material that is actively attempting to suborn the themes of Star Wars. It seems to be bound up in a view that the Force is a net negative presence in the Star Wars universe. And, from a strictly utilitarian perspective, that's an argument that can be made. A single dark side Force user can, in a very short period of time, do more evil than all the good of a thousand Jedi across their lifetimes (incidents like Kyp Durron blowing up Carida come to mind), and since some proportion of any tradition of force users will fall to the dark side (even incredibly restrained pacifistic ones like the Fallanassi have this problem, never mind the Jedi), this evil cannot be wholly eliminated.

Kreia's 'solution' is to destroy the Force. This won't actually work, obviously, but within the confines of her distorted viewpoint it makes a certain sense. Likewise, a galaxy wide policy to murder all Force users is something that could, in the grimdarkest Star Wars timeline, be advanced logically.

The problem, of course, is that the Force is clearly intended to be a net positive in the galaxy. It makes things better overall. Regrettably, various authors have struggled to make this clear, in no small part because content demands conflict, so the goods guys can never push the darkness back for any truly significant period. Additionally, the Jedi, as a paramilitary organization, 'do good' in a highly inefficient way, especially as commonly portrayed. One lightsaber fight at a time is an extremely poor return on supernatural powers, especially as Jedi are only marginally better elite paramilitaries than groups like the Mandalorians. Stories in which the Jedi force multiply using the Force to do things like cure diseases, avert natural disasters, advance technology, and so forth are extremely rare.

[Wraith]

I liked the second episode a lot more than the first, which was just okay. There's a lot of the Mandalorian lore which I don't know because I've never picked up the EU or the cartoons, but I feel like it's being introduced to new viewers at a good pace.

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Speaking of which, we're already 'done' with Mangalore already? Most speculation I've seen is that this was going to be the end-of-season episode where Din washes away his sins and steps up to become the new leader of his people as a capstone to the series. Instead, looks like we're getting that over with right away and getting on with the the unification of the tribes/new civil war/ whatever. It feels like a bit of a rush for only episode 2, but at the same time, we've now seen 90% of the trailer in the episodes so moving on to new stuff is going to be a mystery that I'm here for.

The random blood-sucking robot was cool looking, and I assume a reference to someone or something. It's a random non-English speaking monster like the Mudhorn or the Wampa in TESB, it's not meant to be remarkable - it's just something to fight and I'm okay with that.

The Mythosaur looked cool. Seeing one was the last thing I was expecting (at least until Bo Katan read the plaque, and I immediately realised that Star Wars characters don't say that sort of stuff without it being relevant), and I'm eager to know what it heralds in terms of the next few episodes.

I kind of wish Din would stop falling off things, though. He's been established as an elite warrior who travels the galaxy by himself, taking on space pirates and the Empire and all the rest; watching him get clubbed over the head by some nameless guy with a rock again and getting caught in two different traps makes him look like an idiot.

One interesting point that I don't think I have seen anyone else voice yet, though - Din went into the waters to redeem himself and wash away his 'sins' as an apostate, but Bo Katan went in there with him, if only as his rescuer. Symbolically and as far as the Creed is concerned, she has undertook the very same pilgrimage that he did - I'm really interested to see how that could be played off when Din goes back to the Armourer not only with proof of his redempton, but also a similarly 'redeemed' Bo Katan, and news of a living mythosaur.

[Fyraltari]

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Speaking of which, we're already 'done' with Mangalore already? Most speculation I've seen is that this was going to be the end-of-season episode where Din washes away his sins and steps up to become the new leader of his people as a capstone to the series. Instead, looks like we're getting that over with right away and getting on with the the unification of the tribes/new civil war/ whatever. It feels like a bit of a rush for only episode 2, but at the same time, we've now seen 90% of the trailer in the episodes so moving on to new stuff is going to be a mystery that I'm here for.

I thought that was fast too.

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I don't think we're done with Mandalore, just yet. For one, Din didn't finish his ritual, for two I bet next episode will be about slaying that mythfactosaur. If Bo-Katan can show off that skull, she won't need the Darksaber anymore. Good odds that Din will be the one to actually kill it, though.

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One interesting point that I don't think I have seen anyone else voice yet, though - Din went into the waters to redeem himself and wash away his 'sins' as an apostate, but Bo Katan went in there with him, if only as his rescuer. Symbolically and as far as the Creed is concerned, she has undertook the very same pilgrimage that he did

huh, I didn't think of that. Nice catch.

[Peelee]

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Speaking of which, we're already 'done' with Mangalore already? Most speculation I've seen is that this was going to be the end-of-season episode where Din washes away his sins and steps up to become the new leader of his people as a capstone to the series.

Your eyes fan speculation can deceive you, dont trust them.

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I kind of wish Din would stop falling off things, though. He's been established as an elite warrior who travels the galaxy by himself, taking on space pirates and the Empire and all the rest; watching him get clubbed over the head by some nameless guy with a rock again and getting caught in two different traps makes him look like an idiot.

Is he, though?

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Sure, he's this badass by normal person standards, but he seems like a fairly average Mandalorian. Hes nearly died several times and only lived because of other people pulling his ass out of the fire. And traps are designed to trick people.

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One interesting point that I don't think I have seen anyone else voice yet, though - Din went into the waters to redeem himself and wash away his 'sins' as an apostate, but Bo Katan went in there with him, if only as his rescuer. Symbolically and as far as the Creed is concerned, she has undertook the very same pilgrimage that he did - I'm really interested to see how that could be played off when Din goes back to the Armourer not only with proof of his redempton, but also a similarly 'redeemed' Bo Katan, and news of a living mythosaur.

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Imean, if they have a blanket "this works for literally anyone and everyone, and isn't just a subset of our cult for taking your helmet off". And even then, itll last as long as it takes for Bo Katan to take her helmet off. So not even a day.

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mythfactosaur.

I love this.