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  1. - Top - End - #1471
    Firbolg in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2010

    Default Re: Official OGL Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by EggKookoo View Post
    At the same time, how do you avoid it? Even the basic trolly problem has to deal with it, otherwise there would just be one or two people on the trolly. But typically I see it with a half-dozen at least, and often more like 10 or more. The experiment has to significantly weigh the cost in lives so to balance the moral difference between action and inaction.

    Which is one problem I have with it as it's usually presented. To me it's really just asking what your personal number is. If there's one person on the trolly, usually most people I think would opt for inaction and feel morally safe. Two people on the trolly? Well, debatable. At some point there's a number where it feels "obvious" you should steer it onto the lone rail-sleeper, but what number is that and why is there even a number at all?
    Well again, the answer a person gives doesn't matter, its the process of thinking through it that matters. In that sense, the value of the trolley problem is that even if you think e.g. 'I'm a strict utilitarian', you might feel different about the choices and then you have to square that feeling with your explicitly stated moral philosophy. So e.g. in my case for example I would end up saying 'this highlights a fundamental flaw in human social organization, in that it incurs this bias towards inaction out of fear of being the one responsible - while that can serve the purpose of stability, in many cases it becomes an instinctual norm that is harmful and we should actively try to resist that moral instinct in those cases (for example, using different ethical standards for doctors treating patients who could not have been saved by normal means, or having standards for when someone is or isn't accountable even if their actions led to deaths specifically when inaction would also have led to deaths)'. Which isn't an answer to the trolley problem, but you could say its an overall position shaped by having been exposed to the trolley problem.

    Other people may come up with other justifications or ways of making sense of what they feel, but its the way of making sense that is the important thing and not the personal number.
    Last edited by NichG; 2023-03-15 at 01:32 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #1472
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Devil

    Join Date
    Jun 2005

    Default Re: Official OGL Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    I sure do.
    What, then? Go on, give me your definition of "hostile" whereby trying to destroy someone isn't hostile.

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    The fiction regarding why one puts a stake in a vampire's heart.
    This isn't rocket science. That's the genre I have been talking about this whole time which you deliberately evade and try to subvert.
    And you accuses me of what?
    Sorry, no credibility for you on this one.

    As an aside, if you honestly don't know the genre of vampire fiction, why are you even engaging?

    Sorry, that's the kind of subversion I have been calling you out on already. Do you see the problem now? The "whataboutery" does not advance the conversation, it's deliberate noise to obfuscate the core fiction.
    Here's my understanding of the situation:

    Humans generally evaluate behavior relative to some "in-group". Under this paradigm, "good" actions benefit the in-group and "evil" actions harm the in-group, and the perspective of an unbiased third party, hypothetical or not, doesn't enter into the equation. All that's required for someone, whether a fictional monster or a real human being, to rate as "evil" is acting against the interests of one's perceived in-group.

    I take it that you don't care whether a fictional vampire is better or worse than anyone else from an unbiased perspective. If it just doesn't matter to you whether or not you're actually worse than the monster you root for the protagonists to kill, then I guess that that is "adding noise" from your perspective.

    But comparing and contrasting the behaviors of different groups and individuals is what I was talking about in the first place. That is the conversation here. Why have you repeatedly replied if you don't want to participate in that conversation?

    There's nothing inherently wrong with subverting a genre. Although, given that I'm not producing any fiction here, "subvert" feels a little strong. More like "analyze".

  3. - Top - End - #1473
    Archmage in the Playground Moderator
     
    truemane's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Grognardia
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    Male

    Default Re: Official OGL Discussion Thread

    Metamagic Mod: 50 pages. Also way off-topic and into dangerous waters.
    (Avatar by Cuthalion, who is great.)

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