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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Segev's Avatar

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    Default Superior Darkvision is disappointing to overwrite with Devil's Sight.

    I am contemplating a feat exclusively for those with Superior Darkvision as an upgrade to it, though as always I think it is too much. For comparison, we have Eldritch Adept -> Devil's Sight, which anybody who can cast spells can get and which, if taken on a creature with darkvision (and PARTICULARLY Superior Darkvision) feels like it costs "extra" since you're getting less increase out of it and you did 'pay' for the darkvision with racial traits. And most Superior Darkvision creatures also have Sunlight Sensitivity, to boot.

    Skulker is better, in that it works with Superior Darkvision rather nicely. At least, its third bullet point does. There are a lot of builds where the first two bullets are redundant or unnecessary, though, and it's expensive to take it just for the ability to have dim lighting not impose disadvantage on your Wisdom(Perception) checks, even if that is a nice upgrade that exploits the existence of your existing Superior Darkvision. Maybe one could just take that third bullet point and make a half feat with it and the stat boost, but is that third bullet point really half a feat? Is it even 1/3 of the feat, or is it a ribbon applied to a feat that's actually got most of its oomph in the ability to hide more easily and to stay hidden while attacking?

    I propose the following feat, though I'm waffling a bit on prerequisites. I think the prerequisites would best be one of the following:
    • Drow High Magic or Svirfneblin Magic
    • Superior Darkvision and Sunlight Sensitivity
    • Superior Darkvision and Sunlight Sensitivity, 8th level
    • Superior Darkvision and Sunlight Sensitivity, 12th level


    The 12th level prerequisite, in particular, is in consideration that true seeing is a 6th level spell that lasts for 1 hour.

    Ebon Eyes
    Prerequisite: [one of the above sets of prerequisites]
    Your superior darkvision has developed to the point that darkness itself is more revealing than light. You have Truesight out to the same distance as your Darkvision. This Truesight fails when you are in bright light, and does not extend into brightly lit regions, even if they are within range of your darkvision.


    Is this too much without a level restriction (considering that any of the prerequisite sets would require a race that doesn't get a first level feat)? Is it too much at 8th level?

    I am fairly confident it is NOT too much at 12th level, given that it's a feat compared to a 6th level spell, here. But I kind-of hope it is not too much by 8th level.



    A lesser form of it, as a half-feat, just designed to reward Superior Darkvision existing before it is overwritten:

    Ebon Eyes
    Prerequsite: Superior Darkvision
    Your superior darkvision has improved to see in darkness with the fidelity those without can see in the light.

    • Gain +1 to Wisdom or Intelligence or Charisma.
    • You gain the Devil's Sight Invocation.
    Last edited by Segev; 2023-01-23 at 06:11 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Yakk's Avatar

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    Nov 2006

    Default Re: Superior Darkvision is disappointing to overwrite with Devil's Sight.

    Devil's Sight lets you see in darkness as if it was bright light.

    It does not help in dim light.

    Darkvision makes dim light look like bright like, and darkness look like dim light.

    The two complement each other perfectly.

    ...

    100% truesight is a bad thing. I've played a game with it. It removes stuff from the game in my experience. (attunement-free googles that did it).

    Even in T3/4, the fact that no illusion or the like could exist felt cramping.

    As a feature at the end of some build, I could see it. Character definiing. But not as a modular feat.

    ...

    Thinks that veto elements of a game *should* have diminishing marginal returns, and not discounted upgrades.
    Last edited by Yakk; 2023-01-23 at 05:53 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Segev's Avatar

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    Default Re: Superior Darkvision is disappointing to overwrite with Devil's Sight.

    Hm. Still, compare to Skulker, which gives you everything but the color vision part of Devil's Sight, if you have Superior Darkvision, plus two other bullet points. If those two other bullet points are relevant to the character, obviously taking Skulker is a good idea.

    Maybe I should be looking at other three-bullet feats and trying to weigh how much of the Skulker feat the "dim light doesn't impose disadvantage on your Wisdom(Perception) checks" bullet point counts as. Is it a flat 1/3, or is it worth more or less than the other two bullet points, individually? (One lets you hide in light obscurement, and the other lets you stay hidden if you make and miss with a ranged attack while hidden. I'm betting that "stay hidden if you miss a ranged attack" one is the 'biggest' part of the feat. It does seem to me the "no disadvantage due to dim light" is the smallest of the three bullet points, but I could be biased and wrong.)

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