D&D Honor Among Thieves - New Trailer

[Oramac]

So a friend of mine snagged tickets for an advance screening of the film last night, and I have to say, it was a lot of fun. I'm glad WOTC got The Situation resolved so I didn't have to boycott this.

It was a pretty by-the-book adventure romp, with a LOT of in jokes and references to Faerun (obviously). But it was general enough that someone who'd never heard of D&D would definitely enjoy is as well. They actually struck a really good balance in that regard.

Now, here on GITP we like to nitpick things. And sure, there are things that aren't precisely correct compared to the Rules As Written. But it hits pretty close on most things. Treat it like a Book to Film adaptation and you'll probably enjoy yourself.

TL;DR: It's not perfect, but it's a damn good movie that's well worth seeing.

[Damon_Tor]

I liked it. My 10-year-old son lost his damn mind over it. Themberchaud stuffie on order.

Weird they called the Mastermind Rogue with Performance Proficiency a "bard" but since I can't stand bards most of the time this was a welcome development.

[Theodoxus]

All I ask is that the spell effects look nothing like every other official D&D movie ever made - crappy blue screen CGI so pixelated it makes me want to die inside.

RAW and plot be damned, I just want something that looks like a freakin' fireball and not Backdraft.

[Klorox]

First reviews seem quite positive. A couple have compared it to The Princess Bride.

It’s not The Princess Bride, but it is fun and I’ll watch it again when it’s available to stream.

[KorvinStarmast]

I saw it two weekends ago.
Sneak preview based on an Amazon Prime account.

It's a good romp. Highly Recommended.

Not spoilers:
I liked their take on "wild magic" sorcerer.
I hated that they made the bard a useless 3.x bard and not a 5e bard.
The Paladin was well done.

Hugh Grant spent his time on screen chewing scenery.

Yes, the Moon Druid was OP. But it worked! It's a movie, not a TTRPG.

Spoiler: Spoiler: wait, what?

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The fact that druid is a Tiefling is one more reason to (1) ban edge lords and (2) Tieflings from my games

[No brains]

Technically, we need to address RAW if we're talking about this in the 5e forum. Take this 'analyzing plot', 'praising visuals', and 'having fun' noise back to the Media Discussion forum.

Though I am interested in a discussion of how the movie plays fast and loose with the RAW in service to a playstyle that emphasizes keeping the story going over being held to the word of the rules.

[KorvinStarmast]

Technically, we need to address RAW if we're talking about this in the 5e forum. Take this 'analyzing plot', 'praising visuals', and 'having fun' noise back to the Media Discussion forum.

No.

Though I am interested in a discussion of how the movie plays fast and loose with the RAW in service to a playstyle that emphasizes keeping the story going over being held to the word of the rules.

RAW makes for a crap story, and thus a crap movie, so why are you leaning in that direction?

Beyond that, not gonna go there since I have no desire to spoil the movie for anyone.

Again: it's a fun romp, Highly Recommended.

[animorte]

Spoiler: it's a spoiler, probably

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I read a thing that said one of the actors would have been thrilled to play the party healer, feeling as though the party was genuinely missing that role. I thought to myself, "but they obviously have a Druid" before discovering that apparently this Druid doesn't really even have spells, much less the ability (or desire) to heal anybody.

[JonBeowulf]

I truly appreciate the recs. I was gonna skip it based solely on the previews and some lingering annoyance with WotC.

It's now back on my watch list.

[Lord Raziere]

Think over the last 23 years, what are the big fantasy TV and movie properties? Lord of the Rings (fairly serious) and Game Of Thrones (overly serious to the point of parody) are the two main ones. Then there's a host of smaller ones - the Witcher and Wheel Of Time fall into this group. Both quite serious. Semi-spoof campfests haven't really been a thing since the 90s.

Note that superhero films and such aren't generally thought of as "fantasy" by the average person.

Yeah, this combined with the audience reaction I can see more films like DnDHAT being greenlighted. if the general reaction is "finally!" then that means they're going to smell money, and if not the fantasy genre, than DnD might get the full Marvel movie treatment. upside: all the people sick of grimdark fantasy is going to get what they want. downside: hollywood's understanding of not-grimdark consists some of form of Disney, whether thats the classic kind or the Marvel kind.

[Clertar]

Yeah, this combined with the audience reaction I can see more films like DnDHAT being greenlighted. if the general reaction is "finally!" then that means they're going to smell money, and if not the fantasy genre, than DnD might get the full Marvel movie treatment. upside: all the people sick of grimdark fantasy is going to get what they want. downside: hollywood's understanding of not-grimdark consists some of form of Disney, whether thats the classic kind or the Marvel kind.

Next up we'll see a BG trilogy announced, and just like that we'll have a Faerûn Cinematic Universe.

[Psyren]

Saw it and I had a great time. It's easily the best D&D movie, which I know is quite a low bar, but it was good even by fantasy movie standards. The delivery of Edgin's backstory in particular was brilliant, with a lot of Luis from Ant-Man vibes, and the party meshed together well.

I also agree with Korvin that this was one of the best representations of Wild Magic I could imagine seeing on screen, as well as a great representation of attunement.

I did see the stuff involving the macguffin coming a mile away but as with any D&D game, the journey was the important part. The plot was tight with very little wasted motion, and there were easter eggs and recognizable locations galore.

Did anyone catch why [Xenk] was still young after 300 years though?

Yes:

Spoiler

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Szass Tam inadvertently did... something... to him during his hostile takeover/coup d'etat of Thay. He's officially still human, but if I were building him I would probably use something a bit more exotic like a Reborn, Hexblood, or maybe even Aasimar. I can see why they didn't go for anything other than "weird human" during the movie for simplicity's sake, but I think one of those would be a better mechanical representation of what he's become.

Here is what his official entry on DnDBeyond says:

"Raised in the nation of Thay, Xenk Yendar has sworn an oath of devotion to aid the innocent. Every inch the knight in shining armor, he thrives when inspiring goodness in his allies. The words “Neither virtue nor blade shall break” are etched in Celestial on the blade of his daggersword.

Xenk ages more slowly than a normal human, and with this gift comes the burden of perspective. His longevity has something to do with Szass Tam’s nightmarish rise to power and Xenk’s narrow escape from the lich."

In any event, Xenk was clearly a DMPC, albeit a fairly well-utilized one.

[Oramac]

All I ask is that the spell effects look nothing like every other official D&D movie ever made - crappy blue screen CGI so pixelated it makes me want to die inside.

RAW and plot be damned, I just want something that looks like a freakin' fireball and not Backdraft.

The spell effects are actually pretty freakin awesome. I won't give specifics to avoid spoiling exactly which spells, but overall the effects team really earned their paycheck.

Weird they called the Mastermind Rogue with Performance Proficiency a "bard" but since I can't stand bards most of the time this was a welcome development.

Spoiler: Spoilers, for sure; avoid this

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According to the official stat blocks on DDB, Edgin is a bard and Forge is the Mastermind Rogue (though it doesn't specifically call him one).

Spoiler: it's a spoiler, probably

Show

I read a thing that said one of the actors would have been thrilled to play the party healer, feeling as though the party was genuinely missing that role. I thought to myself, "but they obviously have a Druid" before discovering that apparently this Druid doesn't really even have spells, much less the ability (or desire) to heal anybody.

Spoiler: Meh. Probably a spoiler?

Show

I don't recall seeing the druid cast a spell, but neither did I feel like she needed to. And it does kinda fit with players at the table. I know I've seen tons of players that just want to turn into a cat, spells be damned. In any case, IMO it didn't detract from the film in any way.

[Dragonus45]

I know it's rule of cool, but I did twitch a little at the druid turning into an owlbear. Also mildly disappointed that they didn't go with a different skin tone for the tiefling character. Still, those are nitpicks and it looks like good fun. Especially enjoyed the "Bards are useless" joke.

With all the effort they put into the Tabaxi, and Dragonborn, and Aarakocra the basic tiny horns and tail but just a human thing they went with there was weak.

In any event, Xenk was clearly a DMPC, albeit a fairly well-utilized one.

I figured he was the guy who could only make it for a couple sessions and then had another shift change so he had to leave again.

[Theodoxus]

The spell effects are actually pretty freakin awesome. I won't give specifics to avoid spoiling exactly which spells, but overall the effects team really earned their paycheck.

Awesome to hear :) I really was afraid when I first heard about the project, back when it was just all "A new D&D movie is in production" that it would be horrible.

[Psyren]

Though I am interested in a discussion of how the movie plays fast and loose with the RAW in service to a playstyle that emphasizes keeping the story going over being held to the word of the rules.

For the most part, I'd say most of the film's key setpieces would be easy enough to replicate in-game.

There is one sequence in particular that, while visually stunning, requires a hefty tap-dance with RAW:

Spoiler

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As with any good heist movie, the characters case the vault, in this case by way of their resident druid Doric. However, the film's principal antagonist, Red Wizard of Thay Sofina, sees through her wild shape and sets the guards on her, resulting in a madcap chase all the way from Castle Never to the city borders so that Doric can successfully relay the intel to the team.

During this sequence, Doric wildshapes no less than 6 times into a variety of different forms - an insect, a rat, her humanoid form, a hawk, a cat, a deer, and her owlbear form all in the span of a few minutes. As the character is not an Archdruid, this would need to be explained another way - e.g. via a magic item of some kind, or maybe a custom feat.

She could also be a custom subclass that lets her trade her spells for more wildshape uses, since IIRC she never actually casts any.

Spoiler: it's a spoiler, probably

Show

I read a thing that said one of the actors would have been thrilled to play the party healer, feeling as though the party was genuinely missing that role. I thought to myself, "but they obviously have a Druid" before discovering that apparently this Druid doesn't really even have spells, much less the ability (or desire) to heal anybody.

I mean, it's not like they needed one.

Spoiler

Show

The only character to really sustain any kind of injury was the barbarian at the end, and the macguffin took care of that.

[Oramac]

For the most part, I'd say most of the film's key setpieces would be easy enough to replicate in-game.

Very true. In fact, there's at least one that is intentionally exactly as it is in-game (and probably more than a little tongue-in-cheek).

Spoiler: Definitely Spoilers

Show

The arena scene is all done on a 5x5 grid. And yet, at one point the entire party stands within a single square with no problem.

There is one sequence in particular that, while visually stunning, requires a hefty tap-dance with RAW

But it looked so cool! Certainly it wasn't RAW. Honestly, I don't care. It just worked really well.

[Unoriginal]

For the most part, I'd say most of the film's key setpieces would be easy enough to replicate in-game.

There is one sequence in particular that, while visually stunning, requires a hefty tap-dance with RAW:

Spoiler

Show

As with any good heist movie, the characters case the vault, in this case by way of their resident druid Doric. However, the film's principal antagonist, Red Wizard of Thay Sofina, sees through her wild shape and sets the guards on her, resulting in a madcap chase all the way from Castle Never to the city borders so that Doric can successfully relay the intel to the team.

During this sequence, Doric wildshapes no less than 6 times into a variety of different forms - an insect, a rat, her humanoid form, a hawk, a cat, a deer, and her owlbear form all in the span of a few minutes. As the character is not an Archdruid, this would need to be explained another way - e.g. via a magic item of some kind, or maybe a custom feat.

She could also be a custom subclass that lets her trade her spells for more wildshape uses, since IIRC she never actually casts any.

Easiest explanation to me is that she

Spoiler

Show

cast Polymorph on herself a couple times in-between the Wildshapes.

[Theodoxus]

But it looked so cool! Certainly it wasn't RAW. Honestly, I don't care. It just worked really well.

I kinda like the idea of it being a feat.

Spoiler

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unlimited 'non-combat forms' (insect, rat, cat, maybe even deer) and then standard 2/SR 'combat forms' - though the definition of what non-combat means would be required.

[Psyren]

With all the effort they put into the Tabaxi, and Dragonborn, and Aarakocra the basic tiny horns and tail but just a human thing they went with there was weak.

Why? Some tieflings genuinely look like that. Not all of them are full-on Hellboy.

I figured he was the guy who could only make it for a couple sessions and then had another shift change so he had to leave again.

I definitely see him as a DMPC, he literally says to Edgin:

Spoiler

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"This is your adventure/story, I could come with you but I won't, you'll do great! Also you might have abandoned the Harpers, but we're still proud of you and will welcome you back, fist bump etc."

As the representative of {major NPC faction to whom Edgin is essentially re-proving his worth} Xenk is much more benefactor/mentor than party member.

EDIT: There's also

Spoiler

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The way the party ****-talks him behind his back constantly both while he's in the group and as he's leaving, purely for being cooler and holier-than-thou compared to the rest of them who are the actual underdogs. It gives strong DM of the Rings vibes and how Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas would constantly gripe about how competent and OP Gandalf was.

[Unoriginal]

I kinda like the idea of it being a feat.

Spoiler

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unlimited 'non-combat forms' (insect, rat, cat, maybe even deer) and then standard 2/SR 'combat forms' - though the definition of what non-combat means would be required.

That kind of power at low level would require its own subclass, IMO.

Circle of the Farmland, or something like that.

[Oramac]

There is one sequence in particular that, while visually stunning, requires a hefty tap-dance with RAW

But it looked so cool! Certainly it wasn't RAW. Honestly, I don't care. It just worked really well.

Easiest explanation to me is that she

Spoiler

Show

cast Polymorph on herself a couple times in-between the Wildshapes.

I kinda like the idea of it being a feat.

Spoiler

Show

unlimited 'non-combat forms' (insect, rat, cat, maybe even deer) and then standard 2/SR 'combat forms' - though the definition of what non-combat means would be required.

So I forgot about this, but there's actually a simpler explanation:

Spoiler: Official Stat Block

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in the official stat block she can Wild Shape 5/Day. That might still not be enough to completely cover the scene in question, but it's close enough for government work, as the saying goes.

[Psyren]

Very true. In fact, there's at least one that is intentionally exactly as it is in-game (and probably more than a little tongue-in-cheek).

Spoiler: Definitely Spoilers

Show

The arena scene is all done on a 5x5 grid. And yet, at one point the entire party stands within a single square with no problem.

It was a grid but I don't think every square was 5ft. In particular:

Spoiler: Gelatinous Cube RAW

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GCs are 10x10 by RAW, so 4 party members fitting inside one for their daring escape makes perfect sense (and in fact their statblock explicitly says this is possible), and would be easy to replicate in-game. So each "square" we could see from above the arena is likely to be 10x10, hence them all standing in one.

But it looked so cool! Certainly it wasn't RAW. Honestly, I don't care. It just worked really well.

I'm not saying it totally wasn't. At the end of the day they're fairly high level, and while they're perpetually broke like all skilled adventurers, that doesn't mean they're only in mundane gear. For example, officially both Edgin's lute and Holga's axe are magic items.

So I forgot about this, but there's actually a simpler explanation:

Spoiler: Official Stat Block

Show

in the official stat block she can Wild Shape 5/Day. That might still not be enough to completely cover the scene in question, but it's close enough for government work, as the saying goes.

Sure sure, as monster statblocks it's easy for them to "break the rules" as it were. I'm more thinking about how we would go about building them via PC rules - what items, feats etc. that might entail, e.g.

[Willie the Duck]

Weird they called the Mastermind Rogue with Performance Proficiency a "bard" but since I can't stand bards most of the time this was a welcome development.

Regardless of one's position on most classes in D&D casting spells (we on D&D forums have gone round and round on this a bazillion times, and I'm sure we'll do so a bazillion more). Everyone visibly casting a spell to do their iconic stuff would be distracting and visually cluttery.

Healing:

Spoiler: it's a spoiler, probably

Show

I read a thing that said one of the actors would have been thrilled to play the party healer, feeling as though the party was genuinely missing that role. I thought to myself, "but they obviously have a Druid" before discovering that apparently this Druid doesn't really even have spells, much less the ability (or desire) to heal anybody.

Spoiler

Show

The only character to really sustain any kind of injury was the barbarian at the end, and the macguffin took care of that.

Taking damage and then getting it healed back is an iconic (and arguably interesting) part of a D&D game, but honestly would really only be interesting in a movie or tv show about once. I know 90s Charmed had a character who had healing abilities and I know they had to jump through hoops to make it interesting (mostly focusing on their other abilities, relationships, and those times when it didn't work so you knew something was up). Each of the Star Trek shows, too, had their resident doctor mostly treating mysterious illnesses of the week or things other than being a doctor much more than they ever treated wounds. It's just one of those things that's more interesting in the game (although the trouble they've had to go to to get people to play clerics kinda indicates that maybe it isn't even then).

Anyways, nice flick. I think they hewed to the game when they should have and diverged when it would have lost the momentum or the understanding for the non-gamers. Not perfect, but overall the movie D&D needed right now.

[Unoriginal]

Regardless of one's position on most classes in D&D casting spells (we on D&D forums have gone round and round on this a bazillion times, and I'm sure we'll do so a bazillion more). Everyone visibly casting a spell to do their iconic stuff would be distracting and visually cluttery.

Dunno about that, giving space for the character to do their signature move isn't that hard. Wouldn't have cluttered the movie to have a group jobbers for the Bard to cast Sleep on and then there's a joke about how it doesn't work on strong enemies ("So your magic only works on people we can already easily vanquish?"), and then a call back in the climax.

Healing:


Taking damage and then getting it healed back is an iconic (and arguably interesting) part of a D&D game, but honestly would really only be interesting in a movie or tv show about once. I know 90s Charmed had a character who had healing abilities and I know they had to jump through hoops to make it interesting (mostly focusing on their other abilities, relationships, and those times when it didn't work so you knew something was up). Each of the Star Trek shows, too, had their resident doctor mostly treating mysterious illnesses of the week or things other than being a doctor much more than they ever treated wounds. It's just one of those things that's more interesting in the game (although the trouble they've had to go to to get people to play clerics kinda indicates that maybe it isn't even then).

Star Trek has actually quite a lot of scenes where the characters are healed from getting stabbed, slashed, bludgeoned, crushed, burned, exploder, crushed and a variety of other injuries.

I understand the writers didn't want that in the movie, which is fair, but it could have been neat to show healimg magic and its limits.

[Psyren]

Everyone visibly casting a spell to do their iconic stuff would be distracting and visually cluttery.

I agree but I do think there was a missed opportunity here:

Spoiler: Edgin

Show

The botched illusion they used to get into Castle Never should have been Edgin's work rather than Simon's - it would help to better distinguish bardic magic from sorcerer magic for a casual audience (i.e. of course the bard is the one that relies on parlor tricks as opposed to Simon's "real magic") and the illusion rapidly going sideways as their concentration borked would also help explain why he uses magic so infrequently throughout the film.

[Sian]

Saw it today

Spoiler

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Just about died laughing when Themberchaud tripped over the chains and slid across half the platform while beached on the back

[KorvinStarmast]

I think they hewed to the game when they should have and diverged when it would have lost the momentum or the understanding for the non-gamers. Not perfect, but overall the movie D&D needed right now.

Superb review, well said. Concur.

I agree but I do think there was a missed opportunity here:

Spoiler: Edgin

Show

The botched illusion they used to get into Castle Never should have been Edgin's work rather than Simon's - it would help to better distinguish bardic magic from sorcerer magic for a casual audience

Concur; they missed a trick there.

[Pixel_Kitsune]

There's a fine line between "Viewers are Genius" and "Viewers are Goldfish"

Spoiler

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Having Edgin use magic may have lead to people complaining "Why couldn't HE magic stuff instead of needing Simon?" Same with Doric having full casting.

Also, it'd lead to "Why couldn't Edgin attune to the helmet?"

[warty goblin]

Saw it, absolutely loved it. So nice to get a proper adventure movie again, with fun stuff going on and some really imaginative setpieces, and just straight up having a good time. Kudos to the cinematography, which was far more creative than it had any need to be, and made just watching the movie a blast.

I also liked how little it leaned directly on self aware humor. There were jokes to be sure, but they were character humor, not haha look at this humor.

I agree but I do think there was a missed opportunity here:

Spoiler: Edgin

Show

The botched illusion they used to get into Castle Never should have been Edgin's work rather than Simon's - it would help to better distinguish bardic magic from sorcerer magic for a casual audience (i.e. of course the bard is the one that relies on parlor tricks as opposed to Simon's "real magic") and the illusion rapidly going sideways as their concentration borked would also help explain why he uses magic so infrequently throughout the film.

Nah, that was exactly the right call. Explaining different types of magic and spell lists and so on is absolutely terrible for the fast and fun mood they were going with. Its also a dumb complication that adds nothing to the story beyond letting a chunk of the audience know the screenwriters have also read the PHB, which is fine as an aside or component of an action setpiece, but just bad writing to dump in for the sake of dumping in.

As it is they had characters who can do magic spells, characters who could do other magical stuff like make their sword glow or turn into animals, and characters who didn't do any magic at all, but were good at talking or hitting things or whatever. This is great, because it gives the characters a really strong and obvious identity and skillset, which makes it pretty obvious to the audience why each person is doing what they are doing. As soon as two people ate doing magic spells but person A can do this set and person B does that sort it gets more muddled.