#1273 - Is she really Julia?

[brian 333]

That's all I ever wanted - recognition that I am the greatest.

Sheldon, Peelee, everyone is the greatest.

I think people are over analyzing. I just took things to mean that there was dialog between 1272 and 1273 that wasn't on panel. As in Roy gave a brief summary on what happened, and 'we found an ally now' is the conclusion.

For a character we now so little about and who is important to Roy, it seems more important from a story perspective to flesh out Julia's character then to have a fake Julia subplot. And if she was fake, Roy should be able to tell easily. You would think he would at least give a statement like 'You seem a little off. Are you okay?' I don't think even Sabine could fool someone's close friend or relative.

Edit: Also you would expect Roy to say something like 'I never told you it was a She' . I see little reason to be suspicious unless Roy is. Roy knows her better then us.

I kind of agree here. If Roy doesn't catch Julia in a not-Julia mistake, it probably really is Julia.

I can see how it could be Eugene. I don't see what Eugene brings to the table at this point, in much the same way Ian and Tarquin are basically used up. I do not doubt The Giant's ability to make use of any or all of the Dad Squad, and make it make sense thematically. I just don't see how any of them would bring new elements to the story, and I see how they could drag the story back to already trampled ground.

Sabine is obviously not finished. Her bosses have a hot iron in the fire and she is their connection to it. I do not see how her immitation of Julia could be good enough to fool Roy.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. As always, I would love to see The Giant prove me wrong again. I hate when a story is predictable, and I hate when it becomes random just to create an 'unexpected twist' that does not flow from the story.

The Giant has managed to keep me guessing for over 1200 episodes, so I trust that whatever he has in mind will be fun.

Edit: I now realize that we have not heard from Vaarsuvius' <parent>. Julia must be Vaarsuvius' <parent> or <other parent>. It makes perfect sense, has synchronicity, and is an unexpected twist.

[Ruck]

I kind of agree here. If Roy doesn't catch Julia in a not-Julia mistake, it probably really is Julia.

I dunno. I feel like it's something you're only going to check if you keep an eye out for it, or if something in the behavior is just flagrantly out of character. Given that Julia apparently takes after Eugene quite a bit, I suspect even blatant Eugene behavior (other than, say, knowing something Julia would have no way of knowing about) would probably just draw a "Wow, Julia really is growing up into Dad" reaction from Roy.

I can see how it could be Eugene. I don't see what Eugene brings to the table at this point, in much the same way Ian and Tarquin are basically used up.

Eh, unlike those two, Eugene's story kicks off the Order on its quest and it's still unfinished business. I mean, I imagine Roy doesn't think Eugene brings much to the table, but that doesn't mean there isn't a role for him to play in the story nor that he doesn't have his own reasons for wanting to get involved, a few of which have been summed up nicely in this thread. (The Doylist might also say that Roy is the main-est of the main characters, and so it makes more sense his family is still involved as we head toward the climax.)

Edit: I now realize that we have not heard from Vaarsuvius' <parent>. Julia must be Vaarsuvius' <parent> or <other parent>. It makes perfect sense, has synchronicity, and is an unexpected twist.

We haven't seen Belkar's either. I want to say Rich said something once about not wanting to inadvertently explore differences in culture between humanoid parenting and human parenting, but I'm not totally sure. (And, yes, I know he did that with the dwarves, but obviously he did have something to say there, or, perhaps more accurately, Durkon's mother is a particularly unique person who had a major impact on shaping Durkon into who he is in a way that perhaps Belkar's and Vaarsuvius' parents didn't.)

[Precure]

New strip convinced me more than ever it's neither Julia nor IFCC but Eugene himself since strip 1192. Looking back to Julia's "panic attacks" since her first appearance in ghost form:

Panel 6: She panics when Roy asked her to teach the same spell to V, and makes up a excuse that her spell is somehow linked to Blood Oath, which seems strange in hindsight considering she claimed to create it as part of her academic studies.

Panel 5: She was totally nonchalant about the possibility that earth might be destroyed. When Roy confused by that, she panics and then exclaims an unusual trust on Roy's capabilities to not let that happen, which, again, seems strange.

Panel 10: She overreacts to Roy when he mentioned about the possibility of her direct involvement, and overcorrects him that she's only interested in giving her advice.

Panel 7: She panics when Roy reveals that he tricked her about how he knows that she's here.

Panel 12: She panicked when Roy interrogated her about the audition, implying she had no idea what happened there and whether she supposed to remember it or not.

I think it's probably Eugene himself and he's pretending to be his daughter. Why? Because at his last visit, Roy rebuked him and was unwilling to talk to him due to Eugene's past misdeeds. Roy also wished his sword to "pawn these visits to Julia", and Eugene is doing just that, using "Julia" to talk his son.

[Peelee]

Sheldon

You misspelled Bender.

[ti'esar]

Eh, unlike those two, Eugene's story kicks off the Order on its quest and it's still unfinished business. I mean, I imagine Roy doesn't think Eugene brings much to the table, but that doesn't mean there isn't a role for him to play in the story nor that he doesn't have his own reasons for wanting to get involved, a few of which have been summed up nicely in this thread. (The Doylist might also say that Roy is the main-est of the main characters, and so it makes more sense his family is still involved as we head toward the climax.)

Also, when I said that it'd be pretty uncharacteristically selfless for Eugene to slip up in the way that he's supposedly slipped up? There's an outside chance that may be the whole point. I've been a advocate for the theory that Eugene's consistently unsympathetic portrayal is setting up for, at the end, him not actually getting into LG Heaven even once the Blood Oath is fulfilled. But it's conceivably possible that's not the case, and if not, having Eugene show actual remorse for getting his family stuck with the oath seems like a perfectly logical plot point.

(Note that, again, I now personally am confident this is Julia. This line of thought just occurred to me as a potential counterargument.)

[KorvinStarmast]

I think people are over analyzing.

*checks calendar*
Yeah, its Tuesday, and GitP forumites are overanalyzing. Only happens on days ending with the letter "y"

[Peelee]

*checks calendar*
Yeah, its Tuesday, and GitP forumites are overanalyzing. Only happens on days ending with the letter "y"

So yesterday and today were scheduled but you're saying we shouldn't expect it tomorrow?

[KorvinStarmast]

So yesterday and today were scheduled but you're saying we shouldn't expect it tomorrow?

I do expect it, since tomorrow it will become today, again. Deja Vu

[Peelee]

I do, since tomorrow it will be today, again.

Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow, I see!

[Ruck]

I've been a advocate for the theory that Eugene's consistently unsympathetic portrayal is setting up for, at the end, him not actually getting into LG Heaven even once the Blood Oath is fulfilled.

Oh, I'm rather confident that will be the case. I think Rich knows what he's doing, and I think he knows that he's portraying Eugene consistently in every single scene he appears in as selfish, self-aggrandizing, shirking responsibility, and entirely unconcerned with the needs of others.

[brian 333]

You misspelled Bender.

Can I blame this one on autocorrect?

[Peelee]

Can I blame this one on autocorrect?

Oh, always!

[TaiLiu]

I was really into the not-Julia thesis till 1274. Now it just seems like it's Julia.

I wonder if the reason why people think it's not Julia is that it's just a lot of vaguely plot-related talking for the past couple of months, and so people think there must be some kind of secret reason behind it. It's why I thought it was not-Julia at first.

[Riftwolf]

Although I don't think it's Eugene, Julia's speech in panel 10 gives me pause. 'stuck up here' and 'something that's my... Family's burden' feel like slips.
Whether it was Julia who messaged Roy on the ship, however, is less clear.

[elros]

Oh, I'm rather confident that will be the case. I think Rich knows what he's doing, and I think he knows that he's portraying Eugene consistently in every single scene he appears in as selfish, self-aggrandizing, shirking responsibility, and entirely unconcerned with the needs of others.

Eugene already vowed that he would never see his family in the afterlife, so I agree that the Giant will likely not have him enter the LG plane. However, I suspect that the story will reveal a multiverse, and Eugene will end up in another universe instead of a in a different plane in this universe.

[Ruck]

Eugene already vowed that he would never see his family in the afterlife, so I agree that the Giant will likely not have him enter the LG plane. However, I suspect that the story will reveal a multiverse, and Eugene will end up in another universe instead of a in a different plane in this universe.

Why? What would that add to the story?

[brian 333]

Why? What would that add to the story?

Some of us believe the OotS will solve the current crisis by helping The Snarl create its own universe while the gods close theirs permanently. If Roy and company go to the new universe and Eugene remains behind, the story will be resolved.

[Ruck]

Some of us believe the OotS will solve the current crisis by helping The Snarl create its own universe while the gods close theirs permanently. If Roy and company go to the new universe and Eugene remains behind, the story will be resolved.

This reply leaves me with even more questions. What do you mean "close theirs permanently"? How would that work? Are the Order just going to leave everyone they know behind? Wouldn't the new universe be under threat from the Snarl? etc.

(It also doesn't answer my original question, which is "How does this make for a better, more satisfying story and ending?")

[gbaji]

This reply leaves me with even more questions. What do you mean "close theirs permanently"? How would that work? Are the Order just going to leave everyone they know behind? Wouldn't the new universe be under threat from the Snarl? etc.

(It also doesn't answer my original question, which is "How does this make for a better, more satisfying story and ending?")

Well, it's all quite simple. Everything that's ever happened in the OoTS world is really just a cosmic eye-blink during the big bang creation event in the "real world", but along the way some bits of that proto-universe gained some sentience (call them "gods") and decided to stop the natural process and create some other small temporary reality outside the 'real universe'. The Snarl isn't really evil or destructive at all. It's just a natural part of the process and they're resisting it and imagining it as a horrific deity killing monstrocity (think "The Beast" in that SG:Atlantis episode). What they need to do is allow the snarl to destroy not just the prime material plane (which isn't really real anyway) but also the astral plane, and the outer planes, the gods, etc. Only then can the cosmic process get back on track and reality really begin.

Or... not. This is a 3.5 ed D&D parody world, and it will remain that after the story is done. The basic structure of the D&D cosmology will also remain, in its current form, and with all the people currently contained within it (well, except for maybe Belkar. I think he has a date with the snarl).

I do happen to believe that the snarl isn't quite what the gods think it is, but I don't think the story will end with a new multiverse or whatever.

[Ruck]

Yeah, "or not" indeed. I know we don't know everything about the Snarl, and I think we will certainly find out the meaning of the planet within, but I don't know what that will look like.

I'm not opposed to theorizing, but I think about the purpose of the story, the themes of the story, and what would be dramatically satisfying a lot. And I think the resolution of the story will be in line with those elements. So when people have a theory and I don't see how the theory aligns with elements, I have questions about it, because I want to understand the how and why better.

[WanderingMist]

Julia's outburst when Roy says that it won't be his problem when he's dead doesn't really stack up with Eugene being perfectly happy to let the world end, which the gods will certainly cause if the order fails, so he can actually move on.

[Riftwolf]

The more I look at panel 10, the more convinced I am that Julia's messages are in fact from Eugene. If they are, it means Eugene has something important to say but he knows Roy won't listen to it if it's coming from his dad.
Worst case scenario could be he's found out Blood Oath souls are excluded from the afterlife even after the world's destroyed, so now he's got a very selfish reason to keep the world intact.
Mid-case scenario is Eugene's realised that he's jeopardizing his daughter's existence and he's had an uncharacteristic change of heart (to show he's not a completely one-note curmudgeon)
Best case scenario: I think Eugene's got something vital to tell Roy, something that makes this plot point important to the story, and that Eugene knows Roy won't even consider without some subterfuge.

[Ron Miel]

I'll bet 50 Quatloos that it's really Julia.

[brian 333]

I'll bet 50 Quatloos that it's really Julia.

I'd bet one quatloo against just for the chance to win big, but I already owe the Bank of Fyaralti for a few unsecured loans.

I think it is Julia, but I can see how Eugene is possible. I don't see any possibility it is Sabine, Quar, Jimminy the Polearms Vendor, or anyone else.

[Fyraltari]

I already owe the Bank of Fyaralti for a few unsecured loans.

Watch out, misspelling usernames may cause interest rates to go up.

[Peelee]

Watch out, misspelling usernames may cause interest rates to go up.

Dang, I need to follow your lead on that.

[pendell]

2 cubic meters of Unobtanium that it's really Julia. How's the bets stand?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[brian 333]

What's the exchange rate of unobtanium to eggs? I got eggs.

[Ionathus]

I'll bet 50 Quatloos that it's really Julia.

I'll take that bet.

There are just so many little slip-ups now that make a lot of sense if it's Eugene talking. Especially "stuck up here" getting extra attention, and "my...family's burden".

[Kish]

Ten gold says it's Eugene.

I am prepared to bet against unobtanium but not quatloos (got no use for them).