Supply Die

[Kane0]

Tossing around a concept to turn boring tracking of consumables into fun dice rolling. I'm certain I have seen this concept floated through here previously, but my searching has failed me.
Edit: Derp, found it.

The Supply Die.
Instead of tracking mundane consumables, your character sheet just has them listed under your equipment as an indicator of what you have and have not packed (rather than how much). Ammunition, rations, torches, healing kit uses, writing materials, spell component pouches and more would fall under the Supply Die. Notable consumables like scrolls and potions that cannot be easily resupplied are not subject to the Supply Die.

After you make use of a consumable item you have packed roll your Supply Die. A result of 1 or 2 means you have no more of that consumable remaining (crossing if off your inventory) and your die size decreases one step (d12 - d10 - d8 - d6 - d4), to a minimum of a d4. You only roll the Supply Die once per encounter (or scene), so for example an archer would only have to roll once at the end of combat to see if they have run out of arrows.

You can fully reset your Supply Die when you spend 10gp or more to resupply your stocks at an appropriate vendor. Your DM may increase or decrease this amount as appropriate to the game.

Your DM may determine that you can recover Supply Die sizes by successfully foraging, hunting, repairing, or the use of spells such as Fabricate and Create Food & Water as part of a short or long rest. Other spells such as Mending or Goodberry might provide 'advantage' on your Supply Die roll, rolling twice and taking the higher result.

You can use Inspiration or the Lucky feat to gain advantage on a Supply Die roll, but the Supply Die roll is not considered an attack, ability check or saving throw (nor a d20 test). The Dungeon Delver feat also raises your minimum and maximum die size by one step.

Die Sizes by class:
d6: Bard, Cleric, Druid, Monk, Sorcerer, Warlock, Wizard
d8: Barbarian, Fighter, Paladin
d10: Artificer, Ranger, Rogue


Keen on people's thoughts! I know that this is effectively a nerf for characters that rely on ranged weapons and component pouches, but that is at least a little bit intended.

[Calen]

Very interesting, what about spell components vs spell foci? Pushing players to use foci and are there related cons?

What was your basis for the die size and classes? I like the differential, I am wondering what rubric you used to make the split.

[Kane0]

Very interesting, what about spell components vs spell foci? Pushing players to use foci and are there related cons?

What was your basis for the die size and classes? I like the differential, I am wondering what rubric you used to make the split.

When typing it up I wanted to suggest removing spell foci so casters are forced to use pouches and thus the supply die much like archers, but figured to leave that aside to consider separately.

It was just a rough eyeball, sort of corresponding to how often you'd expect a certain character archetype to be the (nonmagical) macguyver in any given situation but also trying to counterbalance with the presence of easy magic.
Edit: I also specifically didn't want it to be based on strength/carry capacity because then characters like crafty rogues with pockets stuffed full of random bits and pieces wouldn't be a thing, and carry capacity is something I'd like to tackle separately anyways.

[Narbaculus]

This system seems to suppose 1) that a character is equally supplied with (and therefore equally likely to run out of) all of her supplies, and 2) that running out of one thing makes her subsequently more likely to run out of another. If these are intentional, great! The Supply Die cuts out the nitty-gritty tracking of individual items: either you have something, or you don't. If not—if, for instance, you want different resources to deplete at different rates, or you want the Supply Die to have uses other than determining when an adventurer runs out of something—the system needs more work.

[Yakk]

The supply die should get a bonus based on the character's strength.

Because strong PCs can carry more supplies.

By hooking it into class, you ban multiclassing, unless you make it per-level. Making it per-level is interesting.

[Kane0]

The supply die should get a bonus based on the character's strength. Because strong PCs can carry more supplies.

This is partially addressed, if you have higher strength you can take a larger variety of stuff rather than lots more of the same thing.

By hooking it into class, you ban multiclassing, unless you make it per-level. Making it per-level is interesting.

It's based on the class you pick at level 1, like starting save proficiencies. To make it per level would render it basically endless once you hit Tier 2 or so, but (spitballing here) you could change it to a pool of dice equal to Prof Bonus that don't shrink, instead you just lose a die from your pool if you roll a 1 or 2. Then when your prof bonus goes up you get an extra die based on the class you took at that time, but that could lead to a mix of different sized dice or wierd multi-class level progression in your bulid just to get the best Supply Dice you can past level 1.

[Narbaculus]

This is partially addressed, if you have higher strength you can take a larger variety of stuff rather than lots more of the same thing.

I don't understand this; please elaborate on it.

It's based on the class you pick at level 1..., but (spitballing here) you could change it to a pool of dice equal to Prof Bonus that don't shrink, instead you just lose a die from your pool if you roll a 1 or 2.

Interesting...if you lose your last die from the pool, are you then out of everything?

[Kane0]

I don't understand this; please elaborate on it.

So say a Str 8 Rogue has enough carry capacity for their armor, weapons, ammunition, thieves tools and their dungeoneers pack (torches, pitons, rations, rope). But the same rogue at Str 12 has more carry capacity to also bring along a healer's kit, caltrops, grapple hook and a component pouch (either because they're going to go into arcane trickster or to give to a party-mate if they burn through theirs). Since you can't just use all your extra carry capacity to fill up on more and more ammo/food you are encouraged to use it on other stuff you can use with your supply die.

Interesting...if you lose your last die from the pool, are you then out of everything?

Potentially, although on the other hand you could get one last use out of anything in your inventory.


Also secondary idea: if you want equipment that isn't consumable but does degrade over time you can potentially build that into the supply die, rolling once per day/week of use instead of per encounter/scene.

[Razade]

You should look at Five Torches Deep, Gumshoe or Black Hack. All three have a mechanic similar to this. I think Black Hack has a particularly good version.

[Kane0]

You should look at Five Torches Deep, Gumshoe or Black Hack. All three have a mechanic similar to this. I think Black Hack has a particularly good version.

Funny you should mention, Five Torches Deep is the most recent one i've just got through on my to-read pile. Supply in that case being an abstracted resource pool to refill consumables, eg 'darn that's my last torch, i'll use one of my SUP to get another'. It doesn't remove the tracking so much as add an extra pool as cushioning.

[Breccia]

I've been working on a more robust Inspiration system where a player can use one point of Inspiration to suddenly remember they brought something with them.

Your system would basically allow that, but not remove their ability to make clinch saving throws.

So yeah, I like it.

[Yakk]

This is partially addressed, if you have higher strength you can take a larger variety of stuff rather than lots more of the same thing.

Wait -- you have a supply die system *and* people are still tracking all of their inventory by weight?

If you are already tracking inventory by weight, I'm not sure what a supply die system gives you. Once I'm doing that, ticking off arrows isn't a lot of work as a player.

It's based on the class you pick at level 1, like starting save proficiencies. To make it per level would render it basically endless once you hit Tier 2 or so, but (spitballing here) you could change it to a pool of dice equal to Prof Bonus that don't shrink, instead you just lose a die from your pool if you roll a 1 or 2. Then when your prof bonus goes up you get an extra die based on the class you took at that time, but that could lead to a mix of different sized dice or wierd multi-class level progression in your bulid just to get the best Supply Dice you can past level 1.

Yes, your supply dice would be single-use and wouldn't degrade in this model.

At level 1, you'd have a single supply die. At level 20, you'd have 20.

Whenever you'd use some supplies, you'd roll a supply die. On a 1 or 2 you'd lose the supply die.

If you use up supplies and have no supply die, you are out of that good.

Alternatively:

You can make this super-flexible and just let people produce supplies from nothing by rolling a supply die.

Ie, you can say "I have enough arrows for this fight". You'd then roll a supply die; on a 1 or a 2 the supply die goes away. If you have no supply dice, you aren't allowed to do this. This has the benefit that you *don't* have to track mundane supplies.

For $ purposes, whenever you invoke supplies just burn a gp. If the item is more expensive (like a healing potion) you have to pay full price for it.

...

This still doesn't use the strength score enough.

I know; negative strength acts as a penalty on all supply dice.

Positive strength gives you a pool of points you can use to "save" failed supply rolls.

Having a pack animal gives you a similar pool of points. So a 18 strength character has 4 supply saves. An 8 strength character has a -1 penalty (they lose dice on a 1 2 or 3); if they bring a strength 16 mule along they also have 3 supply saves (but doesn't remove the penalty).

[Razade]

Funny you should mention, Five Torches Deep is the most recent one i've just got through on my to-read pile. Supply in that case being an abstracted resource pool to refill consumables, eg 'darn that's my last torch, i'll use one of my SUP to get another'. It doesn't remove the tracking so much as add an extra pool as cushioning.

You'll note I said similar. In the case of Black Hack, it's almost identical however and Gumshoe uses Intelligence rather than Strength to show you have better planning skills rather than carrying capacity.

[Kane0]

Wait -- you have a supply die system *and* people are still tracking all of their inventory by weight?

Nah I just wanted to handle it separately, still reading up on how different systems handle it.

Wait -- you have a supply die system *and* people are still tracking all of their inventory by weight?
Alternatively:
You can make this super-flexible and just let people produce supplies from nothing by rolling a supply die.
Ie, you can say "I have enough arrows for this fight". You'd then roll a supply die; on a 1 or a 2 the supply die goes away. If you have no supply dice, you aren't allowed to do this. This has the benefit that you *don't* have to track mundane supplies.

Or the chance of failure rises each time you use a supply die until you lose one, then it resets.

For example:
Scene 1: 'I brought some torches' *Roll SUP= 3 vs target 2+, success*
Scene 2: 'I've got a quiver of arrows for this fight' *Roll SUP= 4 vs target 3+, success*
Scene 3: 'We're going to need a grappling hook' *Roll SUP=2 vs target 4+, failure* (mark off a die and reset target to 2+)

[stoutstien]

Im partial to supply die as a class or selected feature that gives a little extra insurance from running out of supplies rather than the default method.

For example I have a gadgeteer*name pending* that has a feature that allows them to check if they squirreled away extra resources when anyone in the party runs out of something.

[Kane0]

So im tossing up just dropping encumbrance altogether, besides reconfiguring things like the powerful build trait would there be any other sticking points that need addressing?

If carry capacity isnt a thing anymore we probably could roll in a benefit to strength into the supply die. Maybe set the target to be under your str bonus instead of a flat 1 or 2, or have the min or max die size scale up with str bonus.

[ahyangyi]

Let me be honest, a fully-stocked ranger that has 1/5 chance to find themselves without arrows after a single encounter isn't my definition of fun. I'd rather volunteer to track arrows and encumbrance for all players than dealing with a d12 that might render my character completely out of depth.

Especially, arrows aren't that heavy or expensive. A first level ranger with low strength can probably carry 100 arrows (5 lbs) and do not worry about running out of arrows in a full day of adventure at all.

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Supplies are bad, because they require tedium to avoid disasters. And I think the solution is not to remove the tedium but also hand the player the disaster.

[Kane0]

Hmm, well you could flip it around as suggested above, each class getting a pool of supply die and you only run out of stuff once your supply dice run out. So instead of d6/d8/d10 that shrinks on use it would be 2d8/3d8/4d8 that just get expended on a 1-2 and when you use them all up all your supplies have run dry and you will need to rely on your party, get lucky resupplying in the field or return to town to purchase a refill.

[Yakk]

A fun thing about that is you can track limited resupply as you travel.

Like foraging etc survival checks.

As you travel, have some standard tasks:

* Navigation (go the right direction)
* Scouting (know what is ahead of you)
* Guarding (notice ambushes etc)
* Foraging (gather supplies)
* Animal Husbandry (handle pack animals)
* Covering tracks (prevent tracking)
* Rushing (move faster)
* Tracking (follow someone)

Doing more than one task imposes disadvantage. Not all tasks are needed (ie, if you aren't following something, you don't need to track).

Then Foraging to resupply as you travel becomes a cost, often something the expert would be best at.

[Ionathus]

I really like this idea. Makes supply use in low-tier campaigns actually seem interesting again.

Two questions:

1. How do you prevent players from just putting one of everything in their inventory? Is there a max number of different tools/supplies they can have?
2. Once they've reached the d4, are they out of supplies? Or is it just that every time they want to use an uncrossed supply, they now have a 50/50 chance of using it up?

I really like how this makes Rogues and Rangers better at exploration without trivializing it. Would love to use more mechanics like this in my games.

Thanks for the fun idea!

[ahyangyi]

Hmm, well you could flip it around as suggested above, each class getting a pool of supply die and you only run out of stuff once your supply dice run out. So instead of d6/d8/d10 that shrinks on use it would be 2d8/3d8/4d8 that just get expended on a 1-2 and when you use them all up all your supplies have run dry and you will need to rely on your party, get lucky resupplying in the field or return to town to purchase a refill.

My problem does not extend to rations and other heavy supply, but only ammunition. Ammunition has the following traits:

• A ranged weapon user is very likely to consume ammunition in every encounter in very small amounts.
• Ammunition is very cheap and light; with conventional bookkeeping, they are very unlikely to run out even after days of adventuring.
• A ranged character running out of ammunition will lose combat competency.
• Ammunition has different types; a bow user should not logically rely on the party of a barbarian (who don't do many ranged attacks), a crossbow-using-ranger (who carries bolts) and a wizard (who isn't proficient in bows) for arrows.
• Ammunition does not logically come from foraging, besides the standard "recovering ammunition from the battlefield" thing. If you run out of arrows, you run out of arrows. There aren't many clever solutions.

The above points make me feel that ammunition has completely no role in the suggested supply die system.

I feel fine for "we are out of food and have to hunt". But being out of ammunition after one day's adventure and after literally shooting seven arrows, feels so wrong.

The dice pool doesn't fix it. Any non-zero chance to run out of ammunition after shooting seven arrows feels wrong.

[Kane0]

I really like this idea. Makes supply use in low-tier campaigns actually seem interesting again.

Two questions:

1. How do you prevent players from just putting one of everything in their inventory? Is there a max number of different tools/supplies they can have?
2. Once they've reached the d4, are they out of supplies? Or is it just that every time they want to use an uncrossed supply, they now have a 50/50 chance of using it up?

I really like how this makes Rogues and Rangers better at exploration without trivializing it. Would love to use more mechanics like this in my games.

Thanks for the fun idea!

You could use traditional encumbrance, or a simplified number of items = Str score or something (with armor and other bulky items counting as multiple)

Original idea is the latter, but i've been considering the former in a pool of supply dice. There's pros and cons to each method, not sure which to settle on yet.

My problem does not extend to rations and other heavy supply, but only ammunition. Ammunition has the following traits:

• A ranged weapon user is very likely to consume ammunition in every encounter in very small amounts.
• Ammunition is very cheap and light; with conventional bookkeeping, they are very unlikely to run out even after days of adventuring.
• A ranged character running out of ammunition will lose combat competency.
• Ammunition has different types; a bow user should not logically rely on the party of a barbarian (who don't do many ranged attacks), a crossbow-using-ranger (who carries bolts) and a wizard (who isn't proficient in bows) for arrows.
• Ammunition does not logically come from foraging, besides the standard "recovering ammunition from the battlefield" thing. If you run out of arrows, you run out of arrows. There aren't many clever solutions.

The above points make me feel that ammunition has completely no role in the suggested supply die system.

I feel fine for "we are out of food and have to hunt". But being out of ammunition after one day's adventure and after literally shooting seven arrows, feels so wrong.

The dice pool doesn't fix it. Any non-zero chance to run out of ammunition after shooting seven arrows feels wrong.

Well, when was the last time you actually ran out of arrows? I can only speak from my own experience, but I've seen it exactly twice in the last decade. 5e is incredibly generous when it comes to ranged combat; DEX is comparable if not superior to STR on the whole, ammunition comes in large bundles and is both cheap and light, plus you can recover spent arrows on top of that. Ranged combat doesn't even suffer significantly lower accuracy, damage, defense or movement options compared to melee, while boasting the obvious benefits of range.
And i'm not trying to single out ranged weapons alone here, I want to do this to component pouches too (and nix focuses as a workaround) so all casters feel the same squeeze. If resource management is a part of the game, I want there to be an actual chance for running out to A) happen and B) have consequences. So looking at your first three points it seems i'm hitting the mark. 'Ammo' isn't what you write on the character sheet however, you would still write 'arrows' or 'bolts', but yes your allies that pack them would be able to provide you with backup reserves, team game and all that.
On your final point, you're right. We could work around that by changing what does and does not let you refill supply die in the field, or separating foodstuffs from equipment and foraging only refilling one where things like mending or fletching during a rest would only affect the other. That would be a point on favor of the pooled Supply Dice.

Edit: Actually, funnily enough this would give thrown weapons an extra niche. They're melee weapons so wouldn't be subject to supply rolls, you can use those on repeat unless you can't pick them up after throwing them or the DM wants to also extend a similar mechanic to equipment wear/tear/breakage.

[Narbaculus]

Actually, ammunition can come from foraging...if you know how to make it. There aren't specific "fletcher's tools" in 5e, but woodcarver's tools get you most of the way, and I'm in favor of anything that makes tool proficiency more valuable.

[Razade]

The above points make me feel that ammunition has completely no role in the suggested supply die system.

I feel fine for "we are out of food and have to hunt". But being out of ammunition after one day's adventure and after literally shooting seven arrows, feels so wrong.

The dice pool doesn't fix it. Any non-zero chance to run out of ammunition after shooting seven arrows feels wrong.

That's how I'd do it. Mundane arrows do not count towards supply and any magical/special arrows do. Same with throwing axes and other thrown items.

[ahyangyi]

Well, when was the last time you actually ran out of arrows? I can only speak from my own experience, but I've seen it exactly twice in the last decade. 5e is incredibly generous when it comes to ranged combat; DEX is comparable if not superior to STR on the whole, ammunition comes in large bundles and is both cheap and light, plus you can recover spent arrows on top of that. Ranged combat doesn't even suffer significantly lower accuracy, damage, defense or movement options compared to melee, while boasting the obvious benefits of range.
And i'm not trying to single out ranged weapons alone here, I want to do this to component pouches too (and nix focuses as a workaround) so all casters feel the same squeeze. If resource management is a part of the game, I want there to be an actual chance for running out to A) happen and B) have consequences. So looking at your first three points it seems i'm hitting the mark. 'Ammo' isn't what you write on the character sheet however, you would still write 'arrows' or 'bolts', but yes your allies that pack them would be able to provide you with backup reserves, team game and all that.

That's the point, if I want resource management, I want resource management. Management usually means I know how many things I have. I never run out of my arrows because I do the actual bookkeeping, where arrows are cheap and light, and I never bring only 7 arrows when I set off. You are proposing a new system, and you can't use my experience under the old, functional system as a reference point.

Problem is, in your system, the ranger fires seven arrows in one encounter, then rolls a resource die, wham, one; and he's out of arrows. But why? How is that an advantage to have resource shortage that you cannot prepare for? Can't they just... bring more than seven arrows?

For spellcasting. It's OK if you say "well you are out of bat guano and can't cast fireball", but it makes no sense the wizard might prepare fireball then find "oh I am out of bat guano" after an encounter. You'd think they would have known it when they prepare the spells... And if I were to play a fireball wizard, I'd make sure I bring enough bat guano to cast 20 fireballs or so.

That the wizard finds a rare spell during adventure and doesn't have the spellcasting components conveniently contained in the component pouch is, of course, entirely understandable. But the fireball wizard runs out of bat guano after one day's adventure isn't.

The characters can't all be comically inept at preparing things.

Actually, ammunition can come from foraging...if you know how to make it. There aren't specific "fletcher's tools" in 5e, but woodcarver's tools get you most of the way, and I'm in favor of anything that makes tool proficiency more valuable.

Weird that they can do it even without feather, but I concede that it's an actual rule.

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Alright, can't be all rant. Here are two suggestions from me:

• There's absolutely no point to use supply die for the first three or five days in the wild. Only start rolling them if you strayed from towns longer than that.
• Let characters bring their staple consumables. i.e., declare types of consumables they'll really bring a lot with them. Suddenly remembering you brought a random item such as a portrait or a grapple hook is one thing, suddenly forgetting to bring what defines you as a character at all is another thing. You can declare that rations are too heavy to be "staples".

If you want a game where half of the classes are non-functional, then go for it. "Nonfunctional" isn't "nerf", by the way.

[Narbaculus]

And if I were to play a fireball wizard, I'd make sure I bring enough bat guano to cast 20 fireballs or so.

I agree; this ties into my earlier point that not all resources should be equally likely to run out.

Weird that they can do it even without feather, but I concede that it's an actual rule.

Yeah, there's a bit of hand-waving involved, but I feel like a good ranger can hunt a goose, boil its bones for glue and use its feathers for fletching, and carve arrow heads from flint and shafts from wood, making arrows all in a single check.

• There's absolutely no point to use supply die for the first three or five days in the wild. Only start rolling them if you strayed from towns longer than that.
• Let characters bring their staple consumables. i.e., declare types of consumables they'll really bring a lot with them. Suddenly remembering you brought a random item such as a portrait or a grapple hook is one thing, suddenly forgetting to bring what defines you as a character at all is another thing. You can declare that rations are too heavy to be "staples".

These are decent ideas. Alternatively, when supplies "run out" the player could decide which of her gear is no longer available.
"Aw, I rolled a 1. Well, I can't run out of guano—I'm a fireball wizard!—so I'm going to run out of torches instead."
Characters who are carrying fewer items than their capacity could even have empty slots to sacrifice to the Supply Die for this purpose, representing that our wizard, who knows she's going to need a lot of guano, has elected not to bring torches in the first place so she can just fill her pack with spell components. This would also solve my earlier problem, that running out of one thing somehow makes you more likely to run out of another.

[Kane0]

That's the point, if I want resource management, I want resource management.

Ah, right. That would mean this mechanic would not be for you then, which is OK! It was explicitly meant to remove that management, so there would be no way of twisting this to fit your preference. Much like the variant rules in the DMG, it was never intended to be universal.

Problem is, in your system, the ranger fires seven arrows in one encounter, then rolls a resource die, wham, one; and he's out of arrows. But why? How is that an advantage to have resource shortage that you cannot prepare for? Can't they just... bring more than seven arrows?

Okay, i'm thinking changing it so you don't lose the item on any roll of 1-2 but only a roll of 1-2 when you're down to a d4. That way a bigger die is a buffer before you start using up any equipment.
And you can bring more! Have someone else carry them, even if it's a pack mule or something.

For spellcasting. It's OK if you say "well you are out of bat guano and can't cast fireball", but it makes no sense the wizard might prepare fireball then find "oh I am out of bat guano" after an encounter. You'd think they would have known it when they prepare the spells... And if I were to play a fireball wizard, I'd make sure I bring enough bat guano to cast 20 fireballs or so.

The characters can't all be comically inept at preparing things.

Not the components for a single spell, *the entire component pouch*. But same as above you can absolutely bring backups, just not all on their person at the same time. Another good reason to have a familiar actually, and keep it alive.

Part of what i'm trying to simulate is the abstraction of wear & tear, spoilage, incidental damage and other things that would impact the gear you bring and use during adventures, and at the same time making the chance of them running out an actual danger rather than inconvenience, as that leads to tension and interesting decisions.

Alright, can't be all rant. Here are two suggestions from me:

• There's absolutely no point to use supply die for the first three or five days in the wild. Only start rolling them if you strayed from towns longer than that.
• Let characters bring their staple consumables. i.e., declare types of consumables they'll really bring a lot with them. Suddenly remembering you brought a random item such as a portrait or a grapple hook is one thing, suddenly forgetting to bring what defines you as a character at all is another thing. You can declare that rations are too heavy to be "staples".

Fair on both points. As above i'm thinking of changing to only losing stuff on the d4 roll, and to further incorporate the mechanic i've been adding in extra bits and pieces to feats, spells and class features to cover more bases. For example:
- Archery fighting style gives you a reroll for each Supply roll with ranged weapon ammunition
- Expertise with a tool gives you a reroll for each Supply roll with that tool
- Cantrips don't trigger Supply rolls, nor do levelled spells that use the phrase 'without expending a spell slot' (like spells from race, invocations, etc).
- Goodberry, create food/water, heroes feast and so on let you skip rolls for rations that day (but the caster would need to roll for their component pouch)
- Dungeon Delver increases your base Supply Die one size
- Lucky can be used to reroll a Supply Die roll (as can Inspiration)
- Healer gives you a reroll for each Supply roll with Healer's kits
- Magic Adept gives you a reroll for each Supply roll with Component Pouches

These are decent ideas. Alternatively, when supplies "run out" the player could decide which of her gear is no longer available.

Characters who are carrying fewer items than their capacity could even have empty slots to sacrifice to the Supply Die for this purpose, representing that our wizard, who knows she's going to need a lot of guano, has elected not to bring torches in the first place so she can just fill her pack with spell components. This would also solve my earlier problem, that running out of one thing somehow makes you more likely to run out of another.

Sounds good, but i'd go with one or the other and not both.