Raging Loop

[Valmark]

Spoiler: Vote Count

Show

- 5 for Illven (Zelphas, AvatarVecna, bladescape, JeenLeen, Snowblaze)
- 1 for Armonia13 (Illven)
- 4 for Zelphas (Illven, Lady Serpentine, Taffimai, Persolus)
- 2 for Snowblaze (Book Wombat, Xihirli)
- 1 for AV (Cazero)

Illven hadn't cancelled her first vote, but since it doesn't change the outcome it's not an issue. In case it happens again when it matters I'll take the first vote as the meaningful one.

The sunset came, and people realized it's time to choose. As tensions mounted, two people claimed to be the descendants of the Crow- the village knew they had to come to a choice. For some reason a lot of them decided that Zelphas should be executed instead, but ultimately the majority vote sentenced Illven.

She is accompanied to the tree accompanied by grave silence- no one enjoys having to kill those they were laughing with the night before. Except maybe the monsters wearing the skin of people, but they don't seem willing to laugh in public.

The rope is tied around her neck, and in one single push she's flung down the hill- everybody averts their eyes, but there's no mistaking the snap as the rope goes taut.

Illven is dead.

Day 1 has ended.
Night 1 begins.

It'll last 24 hours.

[Persolus]

Oh, to trigger your boon? Out of curiosity who would you have picked?

That game i would have picked my D1 name, Lady Serpentine.

@Squork I will leave off responding to this until D2 starts.

[AvatarVecna]

(Is there night-talk? Recruitment didn't say one way or the other I don't think.)

[Valmark]

(Is there night-talk? Recruitment didn't say one way or the other I don't think.)

Yeah there is night talk.

[AvatarVecna]

Alright, then. Sharing this cuz it feels important and I'm not exactly convinced I'll survive the night.

Illven flipped as Badger.

No longer sussing Taff and Snow for the counterclaim mentions that, at the time, looked like TMI to me. I'm still broadly suspicious of Taffimai because of how the argument went down but I might just be tunneled?

[Squork]

Alright, then. Sharing this cuz it feels important and I'm not exactly convinced I'll survive the night.

Illven flipped as Badger.

No longer sussing Taff and Snow for the counterclaim mentions that, at the time, looked like TMI to me. I'm still broadly suspicious of Taffimai because of how the argument went down but I might just be tunneled?

I’m just asking because I’ve never played with this kind of role, but what’s the precedent for this type of flip? My initial reaction is to vote them out, but if they’re technically town then isn’t that bad?

[Persolus]

I’m just asking because I’ve never played with this kind of role, but what’s the precedent for this type of flip? My initial reaction is to vote them out, but if they’re technically town then isn’t that bad?

This entire game is unusual, so first off this is assuming that AV is Crow and not lying.
But the Badger is similar to what's called a "Lost Wolf" - in essence, a wolf without access to the wolf chat.
However, Illven is dead, so voting her out is already done?

[Cazero]

Illven flipped as Badger.

Hmmm.
Not sure if that explain the lack of coaching or AV signaling to a real Badger.

[JeenLeen]

@Valmark: Does Badger win if Badger is dead but the wolves win?

If yes, that makes Badger!Illven's statements a bit more reasonable.
If no... I'll probably wait until D2 to say more; I want to think through if sharing anything tonight is worth the risk of helping wolves aim.

[Snowblaze]

Finally made it online, have time to post. I see I missed EOD.

Badger!Ilven makes quite a lot of sense, actually. Going to work under the assumption AV is actual Crow until I have reason to believe otherwise.

And now we have the question of "what on earth did wolves think was going on, and how did they react to it?" to analyse. I feel like there's a good chance someone slipped up in trying to deal with the chaos. Just that I can't actually remember how most people reacted to it.

I'm not even sure I'll manage to post this, so I'll just catch up on sleep and hopefully will be able to get an hour or two of analysis done RL-tomorrow.

[Squork]

This entire game is unusual, so first off this is assuming that AV is Crow and not lying.
But the Badger is similar to what's called a "Lost Wolf" - in essence, a wolf without access to the wolf chat.
However, Illven is dead, so voting her out is already done?

Right, yes, Ilven is ded. New names are hard lol

[Zelphas]

Good grief, it was a bad time to not be here for most of the "day". Or maybe good, since Ilven was possibly Badger as long as AvatarVecna is Crow?

Either way, lots to look over. I can hopefully look over and respond to some of the questions/concerns directed towards me and come up with some reads for Day 2.

[Valmark]

@Valmark: Does Badger win if Badger is dead but the wolves win?

If yes, that makes Badger!Illven's statements a bit more reasonable.
If no... I'll probably wait until D2 to say more; I want to think through if sharing anything tonight is worth the risk of helping wolves aim.

Yes, Badger wins as long as wolves win.

[Squork]

Can someone who knows how the game works explain how Nights work? Do we just not vote and wait for people to die?

[Persolus]

Can someone who knows how the game works explain how Nights work? Do we just not vote and wait for people to die?

During the Night, everyone with a power that activates during the night chooses who to target.
This is also usually a time of discussion for wolves, hence why it's not a few-hour thing.
Generally speaking, it's a bad idea to discuss things too much during the night, because a) you can't back it up with votes and b) this can give the wolves assistance with targetting.

[Book Wombat]

*checks thread, two pages.*
*reloads, suddenly six.*
Me: Oh damn.

(Had a busy day, apologies)
Anyway, uh, not much to say is there? One wolf down which is good, but at what cost?

[Snowblaze]

Kind of sleep-deprived still but going to dig into analysis anyway. Even if I don't get anywhere. Yet.

Armonia13: no posts, null by default.

Book Wombat: two posts, random vote for me and correctly pointing out Taffimai's inaccurate assessment of his playstyle. Typical Wombat stuff. Null.

Spoiler: Zelphas

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Okay, yeah, on reread that opening is pinging me harder than it did the first time. Just feels very "I want to look like I'm contributing meaningfully but also I don't want to attract attention".


I'd say he's unpaired with Ilven, but Ilven is Badger (in Crow!AV worlds; treat that as an implicit assumption in most of this. I'm reasonably confident those are the worlds we're in, but... paranoia). So that doesn't make a difference.


Second post is Fine(TM); at a squint I can wolfread it for "I totally don't have TMI AV is actual Crow!" but considering that read could also be applied to this post I don't think it's valid.

Mild wolflean pending his promised responses.

Spoiler: Lady Serpentine

Show

Mmm... I feel like the pressure-voting thing is more specifically a wolf!Ti thing than a Ti-in-general thing. Or, I remember it's a prominent characteristic of wolf!Ti D1s, anyway. I should check and see if town!Ti also does that.

Anyway, yeah, given that the reasoning for voting Ilven is understandable. If I were doing that I wouldn't have asked for six reads when game was so slow-starting, but that's explainable by stylistic differences.

I disagree with the "Wombat and Xihirli are opportunistic wolves" thing, as pointed out itt. Eh, backing down on it is fine I guess?

My initial reaction to her Zelphas vote was paranoia but realistically that says more about me than Ti. I can't actually justify a wolfread for it, I don't think.

Gut says maybe wolfy. I don't trust my gut. Need to check meta.

Also need to do RL stuff, so will continue later.

[Valmark]

Warning that the Night will end later tonight 'cause a collegue fell sick so I'm covering their evening shift!

[JeenLeen]

To elaborate a little bit on what Persolus said: nightchat tends to help the wolves aim NKs more than it does to help townies aim powers or know who to vote the next Day. Or, rather, the value of what we could say tonight will be just as valuable, or at least almost as valuable/usable, to Town once Day starts as it is now, so best not to talk now when it gives extra value to the wolves.

I can see acceptable nightchat in a few areas: mechanical questions (just clarifying rules), spreading misinformation for the wolves (try to make them aim poorly), or if you think your intel is either worthwhile enough that it's worth some aid to the wolves and/or it is of no value to the wolves.
For example, I'd put AV's statement about Badger in the third category. Assuming AV is town, it does clarify what happened D1 for the wolves and, unfortunately, that does help them make a NK decision. But it's information we as town really needs and there's a chance AV will be dead in the morning.

Sometimes I've tried to give my analysis near Night's end so that I get it out in case I'm NKed, but it's hopefully out too late for the wolves to really have time to read and react to it. But that is mentally exhausting for me (trying to time it right) and depends on a strict ending time (not the case in most games), so I've generally stopped doing that.

[Lady Serpentine]

I do the pressure votes D1 as wolf in large part because I do it as town and it would be notably suspicious for me not to. It's suboptimal for the wolf-team, but mandatory for me because, say, Bladescape would eat me alive if I didn't. And it's optimal and more enjoyable as town, so I'm not going to not do it as town because it makes my wolf game easier.

As regards night talk I strongly disagree with that assessment, which should come as no surprise. The amount of information that wolves can gain from people talking at night is minimal; if you're consistently contributing during the day, wolves are going to want you dead anyway, and speculating on who might be what role is - generally - inadvisable regardless of the phase. Furthermore, we know that if the wolves kill someone, that person is town, so wolves shooting at people for talking is arguably even more useful than it would be in a game where we get to know flips during both phases, as it lends credibility to their theories.

(Speculating on specific targets, meanwhile, winds up a wash. For instance, I do a bit of that below, because I believe that it's important in this situation. Wolves are almost certainly doing so internally, if they're remotely competent, and providing outside viewpoints to the people choosing those powers rarely hurts.)

On the other hand, a quiet townie is an unhelpful townie. Even if you're wildly wrong, generating discussion and forcing people to take a stance on the issue is pro-town. Admittedly, the impact of this is in some ways reduced in this case on account of not getting flips, but so long as Crow survives it's business as usual, and getting other information is even more important in a game where the game itself gives us almost none.

everyone who isn't voting Illven. If this was anyone else counterclaiming a fake info claim, every single person in the game would be piling in to vote the fake claimant. 10 of the 14 players aren't voting the wolf who's been caught trying to wriggle free from the lynch after they got sussed early.

To be clear, while I do have a healthy mistrust of you from having been on a wolfteam with you a few times and having badly misread you when we were on opposite sides, I wasn't voting her because I ****ed off and did other stuff immediately after changing my vote because I wasn't expecting the thread to blow up. If I'd been around, I would have switched back.

But the catch 22 KEEPS happening. That's the issue.

In case you see this from dead chat - I didn't expect anyone to have good reads. The purpose is to get people to definitively make statements so we have anything to analyze.

Moving on, if Spider is watching, AV is plausibly a very important town role. Unless Snake comes out shouting "WOLF!", it's a good idea to be on her for now, and as Snake can't do that until tomorrow, you should probably be sitting there tonight.

---

Sunset. Shadows stretched across Mykaela Blackwater's floor, slowly pooling in the corners. She should have left long since, gone out to join the crowd around the hanging tree, and yet here she sat. She supposed that some would say that meant she was a coward, in the depths of her heart, but what she was was tired. She'd meant to tie a noose with her questions, and oh, how she'd succeeded. That fool girl Olivia had snatched it up and wrapped it around her own neck, but she'd also nearly hung one of Old Featherface's kin with it. And there hadn't been a hint of it until she tried - or that was the hope, anyway. The alternative was that Olivia was one of his hatchlings and now there was a tiny bit of that old blood on her hands too.

Night came, eventually, and found her still in her chair, deep in thought.

After today, she suspected that nobody would be getting away with staying out of matters. (Some shift of a log in the fireplace set her shadow swaying on the wall, as though in response to the thought.) It had gone well enough, from what she'd heard, but it had been a close thing. Nobody liked the thought of going quiet along with a death that shouldn't happen, and those whose tongues that didn't get moving would speak up quick enough when they realized it was going to be theirs.

Kill or be killed was an ugly law to live under. Though at least it seemed to have caught the one who'd started all this, this time, or so the face of that clever old bastard's clutch had announced to the whole town. She hissed out a bitter laugh at that - Badger's damage wouldn't end with Badger, but it was still satisfying. Almost as much so as Wolf's newest litter of vicious pups doing the job themselves would have been.

Eventually, she slid from the chair and crawled into her bed. There was more bloody work to be done in the morning, after all.

[Valmark]

Night 1 END

Some of you might have thought it was just a nightmare.
Or an elaborate prank and everybody else is still alive.

You kept believing that at breakfast, when you noticed someone missing.
You kept believing that when they didn't answer the door after knocking.
You kept believing that when the axe cracked the door open.

But Persolus was dead, horribly mauled in his sleep- like a pack of wolves throwing a rave inside his body.

Day 2 START

It'll end in 48 hours, or homewever close to that I can make it.

(Given that it's super late I might boost it to the evening of the next day, but I'll try not to).

[AvatarVecna]

Night 1 END

Some of you might have thought it was just a nightmare.
Or an elaborate prank and everybody else is still alive.

You kept believing that at breakfast, when you noticed someone missing.
You kept believing that when they didn't answer the door after knocking.
You kept believing that when the axe cracked the door open.

But Persolus was dead, horribly mauled in his sleep- like a pack of wolves throwing a rave inside his body.

Day 2 START

It'll end in 48 hours, or homewever close to that I can make it.

(Given that it's super late I might boost it to the evening of the next day, but I'll try not to).

Villager.

(MU game has just gone to day phase so will probably be more than a little distracted, sorry.)

[Xihirli]

The more I’m thinking about it, honestly the "No role reveals on death? I should counterclaim!" Sounds SO MUCH like Vecna to me.
So uh did anyone get any info on them? AvatarVecna can’t be too safe.

[bladescape]

Snow is town.

[Zelphas]

Okay, looking through the discussion from yesterday a little bit more, it seems like the main question was seeming distancing from Book Wombat and the fact that Ilven claimed Crow after votes stuck on them. I should learn to stop trying to explain my thought process before I'm asked; it never ends well for me.

I'm going to plan on getting preliminary reads up on remaining players in the next 24 hours or so, hopefully.

[JeenLeen]

Analysis of D1 results is hard because although the debate was Illven vs. AV as true Crow, the votes that mattered were Illven vs. Zelphas. That muddies analysis.
I'm hoping to make a 3-dimensional array of alignments Illven, AV, and Zelphas could be and what that would mean.
But it's late so I'm just putting some general thoughts for now.

List of Players
- Persolus - dead town (whether AV is town or not, we know the NKs are wolves killing Town)
- bladescape - townlean
- Xihirli - townlean? NAI? Think should leave her alone for now regardless
- AvatarVecna - Crow or wolf-claim-Crow. Treat as Crow.
- Illven - dead Crow or dead Badger. Assume dead Badger.
- Zelphas - iffy, as discussed D1
- Snowblaze - townlean mostly due to bladescape
- Book Wombat - maybe iffy, but mostly NAI
- JeenLeen - pointless to comment on myself
- Cazero - iffy. Don't like the Night chatter
- Taffimai - townlean, but kinda iffy. If we knew AV's alignment, I'd feel better making a call.
- Armonia13 - NAI
- Squork - basically NAI. Good analysis but too late to have muscle to it.
- Lady Serpentine - pushed discussion, then got silent. Looks bad even if explained later. Got odd vibes from her posts. I should reread when I'm more awake.

Analysis
I get the wolves killing Persolus. After how D1 ended, I'd consider Persolus town regardless of what alignment AV, Illven, or Zelphas truly are. If I was baner, I've have been debating internally "bane AV or Persolus".

I'm going to assume AV is Crow unless we get a seer claim otherwise or she mis-identifies a Monkey.

Will do!
Wait, darn it!

The more I’m thinking about it, honestly the "No role reveals on death? I should counterclaim!" Sounds SO MUCH like Vecna to me.
So uh did anyone get any info on them? AvatarVecna can’t be too safe.

Snow is town.

bladescape says Snowblaze is town. Quite a bit of confidence there. Enough I'll assume there's a reason, and I fully support us not knowing the reason.
Xi sort of claimed Seer near the end of D1. I think it was a joke, but... well, Xi, if you really want me to vote AV, claim for real.
Given that all, I don't want to vote any of them (bladescape, Snowblaze, Xihirli) without some strong info against them.

Hmmm.
Not sure if that explain the lack of coaching or AV signaling to a real Badger.

Cazero voted AV D1, and then during Night called out that a wolf!AV would've been signaling Badger to join the wolves.
He is right that if AV is wolf, Illven was Crow, and the real Badger is around.
But I don't like him saying it at Night. That just increases the odds that Badger notices the signal. (Yes, a Badger in that case probably would notice regardless of Cazero's comment, but it still seems a bad comment to make at Night.) If you're town, wait to make that post until Day.
Let me try to think this through...

• If AV is Crow and Cazero is town, it was just a poorly-timed (well-reasoned but inaccurate) comment.
• If AV is Crow and Cazero is wolf, the vote on AV is confusing, but seems a safe move for a wolf to make to act participating. The night-talk is casting shade on Crow by showing how it could be a wolf lying.
• If AV is wolf and Cazero is town, it was just a poorly-timed (quite accurate) comment.
• If AV is wolf and Cazero is wolf, it was a bonus signaling to the real Badger, plus distancing between wolves.

So either it was a poorly-timed post, or Cazero is likely a wolf.

Snowblaze, I would like to hear if you still think Zelphas looks iffy enough to start off voting him. But I'm going to start with Cazero.

---

Seer, I recommend that you stay quiet if you got "Town" as a result of your scry. At least unless we get another "two folk claiming the same power" and you know which one is Town, I think staying quiet is wise.

I forget whether it was one of them or both of them, but I know AV and Taffimai discussed the wisdom of you revealing yourself if you caught a wolf N1. I have no strong opinion there yet. But I recommend you stay quiet at least until mid-day (if not this Night or next Day) so that we get some solid discussion instead of a low-info Day of "okay; lynch this person".

[Snowblaze]

Snow is town.

ftr I would like an explanation even though I know I'm probably not getting one.

Okay, looking through the discussion from yesterday a little bit more, it seems like the main question was seeming distancing from Book Wombat and the fact that Ilven claimed Crow after votes stuck on them. I should learn to stop trying to explain my thought process before I'm asked; it never ends well for me.

I'm going to plan on getting preliminary reads up on remaining players in the next 24 hours or so, hopefully.

Explain the vote?

Jeen: if I had to vote rn it would be for Zelphas, but I barely have a grip on gamestate and I want to see his reads list before coming to a conclusion.

Also, yay, my vague incoherent Persolus townread was accurate.

And because if I'm doing this I should probably actually do it:

None of her pack had yet fallen, although quite possibly the town had found the Badger who would have helped them. That, or the Badger was in fact the person claiming to be a descendant of that blasted Crow.

Either way, they were still standing, and they would still destroy this town. One corpse at a time. She could still taste the blood of this one, like she'd swallowed a piece of iron. It didn't taste as good as when she'd taken her wolf form.

She shook her head to distract herself. Her act had to be perfect if she didn't want the noose.

[Squork]

The more I’m thinking about it, honestly the "No role reveals on death? I should counterclaim!" Sounds SO MUCH like Vecna to me.
So uh did anyone get any info on them? AvatarVecna can’t be too safe.

I hate this line of thinking from the town perspective. I'm expecting a vote switch from you at some point but my sirens are going off. I would understand this sentiment if AV lasts until the final 3 or whatever, but not now. Innocent until counterclaim/proven otherwise.

Xihi

Analysis of D1 results is hard because although the debate was Illven vs. AV as true Crow, the votes that mattered were Illven vs. Zelphas. That muddies analysis.
I'm hoping to make a 3-dimensional array of alignments Illven, AV, and Zelphas could be and what that would mean.
But it's late so I'm just putting some general thoughts for now.

List of Players
- Persolus - dead town (whether AV is town or not, we know the NKs are wolves killing Town)
- bladescape - townlean
- Xihirli - townlean? NAI? Think should leave her alone for now regardless
- AvatarVecna - Crow or wolf-claim-Crow. Treat as Crow.
- Illven - dead Crow or dead Badger. Assume dead Badger.
- Zelphas - iffy, as discussed D1
- Snowblaze - townlean mostly due to bladescape
- Book Wombat - maybe iffy, but mostly NAI
- JeenLeen - pointless to comment on myself
- Cazero - iffy. Don't like the Night chatter
- Taffimai - townlean, but kinda iffy. If we knew AV's alignment, I'd feel better making a call.
- Armonia13 - NAI
- Squork - basically NAI. Good analysis but too late to have muscle to it.
- Lady Serpentine - pushed discussion, then got silent. Looks bad even if explained later. Got odd vibes from her posts. I should reread when I'm more awake.

Analysis
I get the wolves killing Persolus. After how D1 ended, I'd consider Persolus town regardless of what alignment AV, Illven, or Zelphas truly are. If I was baner, I've have been debating internally "bane AV or Persolus".

I'm going to assume AV is Crow unless we get a seer claim otherwise or she mis-identifies a Monkey.







bladescape says Snowblaze is town. Quite a bit of confidence there. Enough I'll assume there's a reason, and I fully support us not knowing the reason.
Xi sort of claimed Seer near the end of D1. I think it was a joke, but... well, Xi, if you really want me to vote AV, claim for real.
Given that all, I don't want to vote any of them (bladescape, Snowblaze, Xihirli) without some strong info against them.



Cazero voted AV D1, and then during Night called out that a wolf!AV would've been signaling Badger to join the wolves.
He is right that if AV is wolf, Illven was Crow, and the real Badger is around.
But I don't like him saying it at Night. That just increases the odds that Badger notices the signal. (Yes, a Badger in that case probably would notice regardless of Cazero's comment, but it still seems a bad comment to make at Night.) If you're town, wait to make that post until Day.
Let me try to think this through...

• If AV is Crow and Cazero is town, it was just a poorly-timed (well-reasoned but inaccurate) comment.
• If AV is Crow and Cazero is wolf, the vote on AV is confusing, but seems a safe move for a wolf to make to act participating. The night-talk is casting shade on Crow by showing how it could be a wolf lying.
• If AV is wolf and Cazero is town, it was just a poorly-timed (quite accurate) comment.
• If AV is wolf and Cazero is wolf, it was a bonus signaling to the real Badger, plus distancing between wolves.

So either it was a poorly-timed post, or Cazero is likely a wolf.

Snowblaze, I would like to hear if you still think Zelphas looks iffy enough to start off voting him. But I'm going to start with Cazero.

---

Seer, I recommend that you stay quiet if you got "Town" as a result of your scry. At least unless we get another "two folk claiming the same power" and you know which one is Town, I think staying quiet is wise.

I forget whether it was one of them or both of them, but I know AV and Taffimai discussed the wisdom of you revealing yourself if you caught a wolf N1. I have no strong opinion there yet. But I recommend you stay quiet at least until mid-day (if not this Night or next Day) so that we get some solid discussion instead of a low-info Day of "okay; lynch this person".

Honest question, do you always special-hunt like this? I also find it interesting that you have my two largest scum leans (Xihi and Taff) as town leans. Your analysis on Caz at the end of D1/beginning N1 seems like valid scumhunting to me, but I think it's more likely he's just slanking and posting at random periods. Not defending him, but I've seen it all too many times. He's neutral for me right now, and I think there are bigger fish to fry.

How many of the Zelph, AV, Blade, JL and snow group that voted ilven are scum? I'd say there has to be at least one here due to wagonomics. Are we thinking 3 scum, 1 badger? Or is that too OP in a flipless game? Wagonomics would also say that one of the 4 people in the Zelph group (Il, pers, LS, Taff) is scum too.

At this point, I would put money on the LS, Taff, Xihi group having at least one scum, and probably two. LS I need to look at more, but Taff and Xihi completely rub me the wrong way and LS makes sense given the context of the vote counts. However, I think it's much less likely that LS and Taff are scum-scum, because last nights vote would put too much of a target on them.

[Snowblaze]

Spoiler: Cazero ISO

Show

I'm going for Cazero. I don't trust that guy. Never talks much until the game is solved.

This is the kind of WIFOM that should just be treated as NAI, so that is what I will do.

Now that's an interesting development.
Voting for AV.

I wouldn't mind an explanation here... does a wolf actually do this, though? I don't think wolf!AV asks to be bussed here, so assuming town!AV, Badger!Ilven...

Wolves definitely realise one of them has to be Badger, and I think they'd think it's most likely Ilven is Badger/AV real Crow, which would mean that if you happen to be a ruthless powerwolf it's logical to vote AV.

Unfortunately I can't remember whether or not Cazero is a powerwolf. I think this works out as a slight wolflean pending meta-dive.

The thing is, if you're a wolf, you got coaching.

Or not, as the case may be. This is actually a decent argument against Ilven's "but I totally wouldn't have thought of that if I were a wolf!" So yeah, thin town points.

Wich would be what, two people?

Shading AV.

Let's pretend for a moment that the fakeclaimer is a villager.
Not folding when confronted to a counterclaim can only be detrimental to town. At best they distrust the real Crow until the Snake outs themselves. At worst town lynches them both and start aiming for pairs who are also innocent while wolves are free to roam.

Can confirm this is accurate. I'm inclined to be suspicious of anyone mentioning the possibility of Crow claimants both being town (TMI-ish) but this is probably in response to something... I need to check context.

Hmmm.
Not sure if that explain the lack of coaching or AV signaling to a real Badger.

...yeah, I hate this post. Because you were saying earlier "Ilven's possibly being coached is a counter-argument to her not being a wolf because she wouldn't have come up with this plan on her own". And now you're saying that her not being coached makes sense and... actually no I'm kind of talking myself out of this read, ignore it.

Gut still says wolfy, especially since I can't see how AV saying Ilven was Badger can be interpreted as signalling to a living, non-Ilven Badger.

...yeah, I can see where Taffimai got her "75% scumleans" thing from: I have found another one. Maybe. Ish.

Cazero, explain why you voted AV over Ilven please?

[AvatarVecna]

bladescape says Snowblaze is town. Quite a bit of confidence there. Enough I'll assume there's a reason, and I fully support us not knowing the reason.
Xi sort of claimed Seer near the end of D1. I think it was a joke, but... well, Xi, if you really want me to vote AV, claim for real.
Given that all, I don't want to vote any of them (bladescape, Snowblaze, Xihirli) without some strong info against them.

Please stop seer-hunting. They'll claim when they're ready. We've already got one info role outed.

If AV is Crow and Cazero is wolf, the vote on AV is confusing, but seems a safe move for a wolf to make to act participating. The night-talk is casting shade on Crow by showing how it could be a wolf lying.

I'm thinking it was just bad timing, but also if we live in a crow!AV/scum!Caz world, I could see Caz voting either way. In this scenario, wolves have two people claiming Crow, neither of whom is in wolf chat. Best guess is, this is either a townie gambit gone wrong or a badger gambit gone wrong. Regardless of the faieclaimers real role, though, wolves want the real Crow dead and have been handed an opportunity. Scum!Caz voting me would just mean he thought I was the real Crow (even though he couldn't know for sure).

Seer, I recommend that you stay quiet if you got "Town" as a result of your scry. At least unless we get another "two folk claiming the same power" and you know which one is Town, I think staying quiet is wise.

I forget whether it was one of them or both of them, but I know AV and Taffimai discussed the wisdom of you revealing yourself if you caught a wolf N1. I have no strong opinion there yet. But I recommend you stay quiet at least until mid-day (if not this Night or next Day) so that we get some solid discussion instead of a low-info Day of "okay; lynch this person".

"Seer, don't claim your wolf catch until at least midday if you've got one"

Remember what I said about how we don't want wolves knowing both Crow and snake this early in the game?

Snake, claim whenever you want and don't listen to anyone about when - including me. If you think your info is worth outing yourself, thats a call nobody else is qualified to make. Now? Sure if you want. Tonight? Up to you. LYLO? Feels risky but not as risky as claiming now.