Project Black Flag playtest has begun!

[Jervis]

The first playtest packet for Black Flag, Kobold press’s new rpg based on the CC version of the 5.1 SRD, has dropped. It covers the first steps of character creation, primarily race and background. They found a pretty interesting solution to the culture problem of removing features of races by splitting the 5e character race option into lineage (character species effectively) and heritage (culture you grew up in). Cultural features like weapon training and learned abilities go in the latter. It’s pretty elegant all things considered. Backgrounds are similar to the dndone playtest in that they give a feat, renamed talent here, but don’t effect stats. They skipped the obfuscation here and just gave everyone a +2 and +1 to put wherever though notably it’s impossible to go above 18 in any stat at character Gen even with rolled stats. I’d like to hear thoughts on this.

I wasn’t sure if this was a better fit for the general role playing game forum or the 5e forum since black flag is primarily a 5e++ from what we’ve seen so far, but I decided to leave it here.

[stoutstien]

Figured i get the ball rolling on it

At a glance the layout is nice for playtest. clear wording and easy to read.

Talents look a lot better than feats thus far.

Adventuring motivations are a nice touch to flesh out a concept.

I'm going print it out later to give it a fine comb through tonight.

[Brookshw]

Just skimmed through it. Very early stages, but at the moment, its just 5e with a few names changed. I'm disappointed, but, it's early, we'll see where they land. Also, guess I can't blame them for wanting to keep it 5e compatible, makes their legacy stuff still viable and gives them access to WoTC's markets.

[stoutstien]

Just skimmed through it. Very early stages, but at the moment, its just 5e with a few names changed. I'm disappointed, but, it's early, we'll see where they land. Also, guess I can't blame them for wanting to keep it 5e compatible, makes their legacy stuff still viable and gives them access to WoTC's markets.

There some subtle changes that are mostly quality of play improvements IMO. Taking all three "get better armor Prof" feats and writing them into a single feature that is much easier to read and explain. It's early yet but they are winning the layout game.

[Tanarii]

since black flag is primarily a 5e++ from what we’ve seen so far,

Well that's disappointing

[Rynjin]

Yeah, that's a big meh from me unfortunately.

[Jervis]

There some subtle changes that are mostly quality of play improvements IMO. Taking all three "get better armor Prof" feats and writing them into a single feature that is much easier to read and explain. It's early yet but they are winning the layout game.

I can’t believe it took someone THIS LONG to word the armor prof feat sensibly. The way it’s worded you even benefit if you’re in that awkward situation of having medium and light armor proficiency but no shield proficiency.

Well that's disappointing

Yeah, honestly it’s what I expected. I was expecting a legally distinct 5e with some bells and whistles attached and that’s probably what we’re getting. Classes might be a surprise though and i’m hoping we get some interesting shakeups.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Jervis
They found a pretty interesting solution to the culture problem of removing features of races by splitting the 5e character race option into lineage (character species effectively) and heritage (culture you grew up in). Cultural features like weapon training and learned abilities go in the latter. It’s pretty elegant all things considered.

I like the sound of this, will be interested to see how it’s implemented.

Originally Posted by Tanarii
Well that's disappointing….

Originally Posted by Rynjin
Yeah, that's a big meh from me unfortunately.

If not 5E, what were the hopes for this? Something more 3.PFish, or an entirely new approach?

[Rynjin]

"Something new", yeah. I'd assumed it would have some 5e DNA, as it's the style at the time...but if Black Flag is just going to be the Pathfinder equivalent for 5e...pass.

[Just to Browse]

(I am migrating my hot takes to the other thread)

[KorvinStarmast]

There's another thread here.

[Kane0]

I'll keep an eye on it, if it turns out to be a better base than 5e or D&Done then shifting to it with my own changes wont be hard.

[PhoenixPhyre]

"Something new", yeah. I'd assumed it would have some 5e DNA, as it's the style at the time...but if Black Flag is just going to be the Pathfinder equivalent for 5e...pass.

That's all it really promised to be.

--------

My initial take--conflicted.
1. Positive: I like the lineage + heritage approach and have actually gone somewhat that way myself.
2. Negative: They seem very fixated still on "magic uber alles". The magic heritage traits are leaps and bounds better than the non-magic ones. And are a major buff above the existing 5e counterparts, where the non-magic ones are only a tiny buff (more a clarification).

[Easy e]

More D&D with a different name?

I guess they are leaning into what they know, and I honestly think that is a good idea.

[Just to Browse]

(Moving some comments from the other thread since we should def only have one, thanks Korvin)

Thoughts from a first look:

Rundown (trying to avoid bias)
Unsurprisingly, this looks most like like D&D 5e with houserules added & serial numbers removed. That was mostly confirmed based on KP's description of Deep Magic 2, but I think it's worth noting. We can see evidence that KP will retain most (perhaps all) of the original skills, the concept of hit dice, short / long rests, spell schools, and the original action economy. High odds that they will keep most of the other rules infrastructure as well.

Race / species is now "Lineage" and "Heritage". Lineage is your standard race stuff, generally pretty anemic (elves have magic sleep resistance and Perception prf, dwarves have +1 HP and poison resistance, humans have a skill and a feat talent). Your Heritage is the equivalent of a subrace, but can be mixed & matched between any races. So the default is Cloud Elf and Stone Dwarf, but you can make a Stone Elf / Cloud Dwarf.

Backgrounds are still in. They now grant a feat talent from some pre-set list.

Talents are the replacement for feats, and work identically to 5th edition's feats. They're placed in 3 categories:

• Magic: features related to using spells, or getting affected by spells
• Martial: features related to fighting
• Technical: non-combat features

Hot Takes (very biased)

Overall, not particularly impressed or disappointed.

The species-replacement rules seem about as adequate as any other species-replacement houserules I've seen on the internet. The most common criticism I've levied at biology+culture rules like these is that culture blurs into background a little too easily. We can see that in KP's packet with the human cultures, where being a Cosmopolitan Soldier or Nomadic Scholar is possible but a Scholarly Soldier or a Cosmopolitan Nomad is not. This issue is almost certainly going to become more pronounced as we see more content.

One big win: I love that they are explicit about this being a magical setting, and discourage low-magic games. Love love love to see that. If your RPG system requires excising a bunch of material to run your setting, use a different system! *glares at Broken Weave*

2 big concerns:

Bounded Accuracy: Seeing the +1 bonuses from Armored Combatant and School Specialization spook me a little. The infrastructure of 5e relies heavily on bounded accuracy, and the fact that we already see multiple +1 effects makes me think that Black Flag talents will have little bonuses frequently scattered within. Combined with their faster content release cadence, this could (emphasis on could -- I am speculating here!) make optimization in Black Flag all about the tiny +1 bonuses. Obviously it's too early to draw definitive conclusions, but I would be much happier if Black Flag talents had their power budget allocated into interesting combat patterns, instead of static bonuses.

Technical Talents: One thing I was really hoping for was a structural examination & expansion of other pillars of play. Wrapping all of the non-combat possibilities into a single category of "non-combat" talents (the use of which is mutually exclusive with combat-centric talents) doesn't give me much hope. I at least appreciate that they're labeling all these talents, so I can tell easily tell new players to ignore them and/or reference them when I'm handing out free ribbons.

Also I cannot emphasize enough just how bad it is for a talent that rewards you for not adventuring. No no no! Do not do this! That isn't just a bad choice, it explicitly mis-aligns the party's incentives! aaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAA

[Tanarii]

If not 5E, what were the hopes for this? Something more 3.PFish, or an entirely new approach?

That's all it really promised to be.

The impression I'd gotten was it was going to be an all new RPG.

(Edit: Moving remaining commentary to the OGL thread.)

[stoutstien]

There's another thread here.

Yea they were started almost at once I'll ping for a merger.

[stoutstien]

That's all it really promised to be.

--------

My initial take--conflicted.
1. Positive: I like the lineage + heritage approach and have actually gone somewhat that way myself.
2. Negative: They seem very fixated still on "magic uber alles". The magic heritage traits are leaps and bounds better than the non-magic ones. And are a major buff above the existing 5e counterparts, where the non-magic ones are only a tiny buff (more a clarification).

I feel this. They have a great opportunity to reset the whole magic issue and still be backwards capable with 5e. I'll push for it myself and if it looks promising I'll probably buy into it.

On the positive note they tend to be very active in feedback response data.

[Brookshw]

The impression I'd gotten was it was going to be an all new RPG.

This. KP does some fantastic stuff and I think has a great eye for interesting mechanics, I was excited to see what they'd come up with for a core system. If it's just 5e with the names filed off and minor tweaks, I'm sure it'll be fine but it's not going to be a huge draw for me.

[Jervis]

This. KP does some fantastic stuff and I think has a great eye for interesting mechanics, I was excited to see what they'd come up with for a core system. If it's just 5e with the names filed off and minor tweaks, I'm sure it'll be fine but it's not going to be a huge draw for me.

In their defense I can see why they would want to stick with a 5e infrastructure. Most of their catalog from the last few years has been 5e content so competing with themselves is a bit of a concern if the two are any less compatible than, say, 3.5 and pathfinder 1E. That said I hope we see some shakeups in the class department and other rulesets. Something like fixing the dang subclass system for example so every subclass doesn’t have to shoehorn in features of roughly equivalent power at the exact same levels. Maybe adding some new magic rules or including a interesting setting in the final product.

[animorte]

Also, guess I can't blame them for wanting to keep it 5e compatible, makes their legacy stuff still viable and gives them access to WoTC's markets.

There some subtle changes that are mostly quality of play improvements IMO... It's early yet but they are winning the layout game.

Yeah, honestly it’s what I expected. I was expecting a legally distinct 5e with some bells and whistles attached and that’s probably what we’re getting.

This is pretty much what I expected. Makes sense.

Thoughts from a first look:

Thanks for your breakdown.

I'm looking forward to whatever direction they choose to explore for classes and the like.

[BRC]

Looks like about what I would expect if you start with 5e and have about a month to throw something together.

[Sparky McDibben]

Looks like about what I would expect if you start with 5e and have about a month to throw something together.

They started this last summer, bro.

[KorvinStarmast]

Yea they were started almost at once I'll ping for a merger.

Yeah, I saw that and only suggested the merge with that one because it had a few more replies than this one. Glad you all brought this to our attention.

[EggKookoo]

They started this last summer, bro.

I wonder how often they had to go back an edit out "feat" and replace it with "talent" in their manuscripts.

[Tanarii]

They started this last summer, bro.

They announced it in early January.

Looks like about what I would expect if you start with 5e and have about a month to throw something together.

17 days. That's how long since 5e SRD was released under Creative Commons.

[Just to Browse]

KP claimed that one of the senior game designers had been working on Project Black Flag since last year.

Celeste Conowitch, our Senior Game Designer, is the lead on game design for this new fantasy RPG. She has been working on Project Black Flag behind the scenes since the summer of 2022. Additional designers and developers are currently engaged with the project, as well as several partners from the community. We will have more announcements on the creative team and project partners soon.

That said, "working on" is vague. Maybe Conowitch was just messing around with houserules for spellcasting, maybe she rewrote only the classes so all the lineage stuff is still last-minute, or maybe she was just creating a bunch of variations on mementori mori part 2: it's a martial maneuver this time for the fighter or whatever.

[Sparky McDibben]

KP claimed that one of the senior game designers had been working on Project Black Flag since last year.

Thanks for posting the link!

[Atranen]

KP claimed that one of the senior game designers had been working on Project Black Flag since last year.



That said, "working on" is vague. Maybe Conowitch was just messing around with houserules for spellcasting, maybe she rewrote only the classes so all the lineage stuff is still last-minute, or maybe she was just creating a bunch of variations on mementori mori part 2: it's a martial maneuver this time for the fighter or whatever.

She has credits on a half dozen KP titles that came out in 2022, so my guess is that she was working on PBF as one of many projects (with an eye towards positioning KP well following the release of OneD&D) and it kicked into high gear with the OGL announcement.

[False God]

5E wasn't my cup of tea to begin with, though it was an enjoyable romp in simple and low-powered (relative to other editions) for a while, but that grew stale, and I have no love for WotC at this time.

So I've got no real interest in "5E, but with someone else's branding."

I was VERY much looking forward to a new game, or at least a fresh take.