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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    DruidGirl

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    Default Re: ChatGPT is an amazing tool for DMs

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt Kurageous View Post
    Point given!

    My counter-point is I didn't write the descriptive text of any of the published works, either. And you pay attention to that.

    I'm not trying to be adversarial. You do make a good point regarding sincerity. I just don't think its a reasonable standard to hold a DM to purely self generated play content. There are already too few DMs as is.
    Well, reading box text verbatim is a well known way to make players start looking for their phones :P

    But, presuming that you mean "descriptive text" more broadly, if you went out and bought (downloaded, whatever) the prewritten adventure, you probably did so because it seemed worth the table's time.

    My point is less about sincerity and more about investment. Nothing turns me off a table more than when a GM clearly doesn't care about their side of the setting/story/tone at least as much as I do mine. If you don't care about the content of the letter to author it (and no human person ever did), the content of the letter is definitionally filler. And I am too old to play games with people who waste my time.

    (The "you" in my posts is meant as a rhetorical "you," I don't know any of y'all well enough to suggest that you are this person, apologies if I'm coming off more directed than I intend)
    Last edited by Jack of Spades; 2023-02-17 at 05:02 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: ChatGPT is an amazing tool for DMs

    So I tried to improve it...

    write a poem in the style of william wordsworth set in pre christian ireland with a conflict between a noble and a freeman not based on braveheart

    Upon the green and rolling hills of old,
    In Erin's land with stories oft retold,
    A noble lord and freeman clashed in pride,
    Their conflict fierce, and honor on the line.

    The lord, with power and lands so wide,
    Believed that all must kneel and abide,
    Yet the freeman, of spirit true and strong,
    Refused to bow to lords and their wrongs.

    The lord, in anger, sought to seize,
    The freeman's rights and ancient peace,
    But the people, in their love for liberty,
    Fought back to keep their land and dignity.

    The battle raged for many a day,
    Both sides strong, both sides in play,
    Until at last, the lord emerged victorious,
    But not without loss, and a heart so pious.

    For in his triumph, he could not forget,
    The lives he'd taken, the pain and regret,
    And in his soul, he knew he'd lost,
    The honor that he'd so dearly cost.

    Oh Erin, land of myths and song,
    May we remember where we belong,
    To stand with those who seek their rights,
    And always strive to shine the light.

    For in the end, it's not power and gold,
    That will leave a legacy so bold,
    But the hearts of those who stood for what was right,
    And fought for honor in the light.

    And again, but all I get is comically bad poetry.

    write a poem in the style of william wordsworth in a celtic setting with a non-violent conflict between two nobles

    In ancient Celtic lands of green and gold,
    Two noble lords did come to meet,
    Their clash not with swords or blood so bold,
    But with words of grace and honor sweet.

    No swords clashed nor shields were raised,
    No warriors called to fight and die,
    But two noble hearts in honor praised,
    To settle their differences by and by.

    With patience and with wise repute,
    The two lords spoke of lands and rights,
    Of honor and of sacred truth,
    To find a path that was just and right.

    And though they started worlds apart,
    With words of wisdom, they came to see,
    That in the heart, we are all a part,
    Of something greater, wild and free.

    So let us honor those who seek,
    A peaceful path in times of strife,
    For in the end, it's not with sword and speak,
    But with compassion, we build a better life.
    Last edited by Kurt Kurageous; 2023-02-17 at 04:54 PM.
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  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: ChatGPT is an amazing tool for DMs

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Spades View Post
    Well, reading box text verbatim is a well known way to make players start looking for their phones :P

    But, presuming that you mean "descriptive text" more broadly, if you went out and bought (downloaded, whatever) the prewritten adventure, you probably did so because it seemed worth the table's time.

    My point is less about sincerity and more about investment. Nothing turns me off a table more than when a GM clearly doesn't care about their side of the setting/story/tone at least as much as I do mine. If you don't care about the content of the letter to author it (and no human person ever did), the content of the letter is definitionally filler. And I am too old to play games with people who waste my time.

    (The "you" in my posts is meant as a hypothetical "you," I don't know any of y'all well enough to suggest that you are this person, apologies if I'm coming off more directed than I intend)
    I've been writing stuff on and off for RPGs for a lot of years strictly for my own game. I have a serious beef with how BADLY the published adventurers are formatted. So...I developed my own based on the works of others. And I agree about the "looking at their phones" quip, which is also part of the formatting problem.

    I'm seriously invested in keeping the players attention. I DO care greatly about my side, and expect the same of any DM I play under. This 'thing' will never be able to replace a human DM, only assist in margianal ways.

    And BTW, the format issue with descriptive text is it rarely ends with an incitement/call to action. Players are trained to tune it out because there's nothing there for them to bite on to. And the poor DM has to use highlighters to find even the most mundane details in response to player's requests...
    Last edited by Kurt Kurageous; 2023-02-17 at 05:09 PM.
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  4. - Top - End - #34
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: ChatGPT is an amazing tool for DMs

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt Kurageous View Post
    I've been writing stuff on and off for RPGs for a lot of years strictly for my own game. I have a serious beef with how BADLY the published adventurers are formatted. So...I developed my own based on the works of others. And I agree about the "looking at their phones" quip, which is also part of the formatting problem.

    I'm seriously invested in keeping the players attention. I DO care greatly about my side, and expect the same of any DM I play under. This 'thing' will never be able to replace a human DM, only assist in margianal ways.

    And BTW, the format issue with descriptive text is it rarely ends with an incitement/call to action. Players are trained to tune it out because there's nothing there for them to bite on to. And the poor DM has to use highlighters to find even the most mundane details in response to player's requests...
    Man, I would love to see that. Mothership really opened my eyes to how format impacts fun.

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: ChatGPT is an amazing tool for DMs

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky McDibben View Post
    Man, I would love to see that. Mothership really opened my eyes to how format impacts fun.
    DM me, I will link you an example or two. I welcome criticism and suggestions.

    I dream that, one day, WotC will hear my cries, "Quit making it so hard to DM! Don't make me read a page five times and use a highlighter before I can present it to a party!" Not really. I expect to die in the same obscurity in which I live.
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  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: ChatGPT is an amazing tool for DMs

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt Kurageous View Post
    "Quit making it so hard to DM! Don't make me read a page five times and use a highlighter before I can present it to a party!"
    Yeah, presentation style could use improvement.
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  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: ChatGPT is an amazing tool for DMs

    I wouldnt' use it to write something that I actually read to players. But let's see if it can help me brainstorm a few basic plots.


    A rich man was murdered using magic. What clues might be found at the scene?

    ...some clues that might be found at the crime scene could include:

    Unusual or mysterious objects: There may be unusual objects at the scene that have no clear explanation, such as crystals, talismans, or potions. These objects may be related to the magic used in the murder.

    Strange symbols or markings: There may be unusual symbols or markings at the scene that are related to magic. These could include sigils, runes, or other magical symbols.

    Signs of ritualistic behavior: If the magic used in the murder was part of a ritual, there may be signs of ritualistic behavior at the scene, such as candles, incense, or other offerings.

    Unexplained injuries: The victim may have injuries that are difficult to explain using conventional means. For example, they may have been burned or electrocuted without any clear source of electricity or fire.

    Witnesses or suspects with knowledge of magic: If the murder was committed using magic, it is possible that the perpetrator has knowledge of magic. Witnesses or suspects who have this knowledge could provide valuable information in the investigation.
    That is far to generic to be useful.

    After the rich man is murdered with magic, a note is found on his corpse. Write that note.

    "Your wealth cannot save you now. The power of the arcane is stronger than the power of money. You have paid the ultimate price for your arrogance and greed. May your soul find peace in the afterlife."
    I guess that's a motive, at least. Vengeance for greed. But still not great.

    We are writing a noir thriller with magic. What powerful people would interfere with the detective's work and why?
    A corrupt political figure: A high-ranking political figure who is involved in illegal activities and wants to keep their secrets hidden might interfere with the detective's work. They could use their influence and power to keep the detective from accessing certain information or to manipulate the investigation in their favor.

    A wealthy and influential businessman: A wealthy and influential businessman who has a lot to lose if the investigation goes against them might interfere with the detective's work. They could use their wealth and connections to influence the investigation or to hire their own team of investigators to find evidence that supports their innocence.

    A powerful magical organization: In a world where magic is real, there may be powerful magical organizations that seek to maintain control and keep their secrets hidden. If the detective's investigation threatens to expose their activities, they may use their magical powers to interfere with the investigation and keep the truth from being revealed.
    Yeah, nah. Okay, it can't do plot ideas, then, or at least any that aren't extremely generic. (To be fair, I gave it the most generic plot outline in history.) Let's see if it can help with naming NPCs and giving them some description.

    A corrupt political figure is interfering with the detective's work. What is their name and what do they look like?
    The corrupt political figure interfering with the detective's work could have a name that reflects their status and power. They might have a last name that is well-known in the city or state, or a first name that is associated with wealth and influence. For example, they might be named something like Richard Vanderbilt or Sarah Winchester.

    In terms of appearance, they might dress in expensive suits and wear flashy jewelry. They might have a polished and charismatic demeanor that masks their true intentions. They could have an imposing physical presence that commands attention, or they could be unassuming in their appearance, blending into the background when they need to.

    Their face could be stern and expressionless, reflecting their hardened and ruthless personality. Alternatively, they might have a disarming smile and an easy charm that they use to manipulate those around them.

    Ultimately, the appearance and personality of the corrupt political figure will depend on the specific character you are creating for your story, and what qualities best serve your plot and themes.

    Gee, thanks. Okay. I'm at the table, running D&D and I need to come up with some NPCs fast for something weird my PCs did.

    Describe some patrons in a shady port tavern in a dungeons and dragons setting. Give them names, appearances and interesting character quirks.
    Thorne, the half-elf gambler: Thorne is a tall, lanky half-elf with a perpetual smirk on his face. He always has a deck of cards in his hands and a pile of gold coins on the table in front of him. Despite his friendly demeanor, Thorne has a cunning streak that makes him a formidable opponent at the gambling table.

    Korga, the surly dwarf sailor: Korga is a grizzled old dwarf with a thick beard and a permanent scowl on his face. He's seen it all in his many years as a sailor, and he's not impressed by much. He's usually found nursing a mug of ale in the corner, grumbling about the sorry state of the world. But if someone crosses him or his crew, he's not afraid to get his hands dirty.

    Lirien, the elven bard: Lirien is a stunningly beautiful elven woman with a lilting voice and a talent for the lute. She's a regular performer at the tavern, regaling the patrons with tales of adventure and love. She's always surrounded by admirers, but she keeps her heart guarded and her eyes on the horizon.

    Balthazar, the human thief: Balthazar is a wiry, scrappy human with a crooked grin and a quick hand. He's a skilled thief, always on the lookout for his next mark. He's often seen lurking in the shadows, watching the other patrons for any signs of weakness. Despite his shady profession, he has a certain charm that makes him hard to resist.

    Okay, we're getting somewhere. This is all still super generic, but it's atl east on the level of a decent random generation table, it saves me the dice rolling and it's something to work with.

    A dungeons and dragons party is meeting the village blacksmith. Tell me what he looks like, what his name is and what dark secret he has in his past.

    Sure, here's an idea for a blacksmith NPC for your Dungeons and Dragons party to meet:

    Name: Grom Ironfist

    Appearance: Grom is a hulking figure, standing well over six feet tall with broad shoulders and a muscular build. He has a thick beard and mustache, both of which are peppered with grey. His skin is weathered and lined from years of working in front of the forge. He wears a leather apron and carries a heavy hammer at his side.

    Dark Secret: Grom Ironfist has a troubled past that he keeps hidden from most people in the village. Many years ago, he was a renowned adventurer, traveling across the land in search of treasure and glory. But on one fateful mission, he made a mistake that cost the lives of his companions. Wracked with guilt and grief, Grom turned to drink and became a bitter and angry man. He eventually returned to his hometown and became a blacksmith, but he has never been able to forgive himself for what happened. He keeps to himself and tries to avoid anyone who might remind him of his past. However, he may eventually confide in the party and ask for their help in making amends for his mistakes.
    That's, kinda boring, but again, it's not the worst I've written and if I have just a minute to come up with a new character on the fly, it's... serviceable? I'd never use the name Grom Ironfist, though.
    Last edited by Eldan; 2023-02-20 at 04:34 AM.
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  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: ChatGPT is an amazing tool for DMs

    Another routine task. I didn't specify DND or 5e or anything in the prompt. Apparently the bot does recognize the reference and some 5e lore. But the tone is far from menacing and seems simplistic in its approach to "convincing adventurers." Hardly the 'offer they can't refuse' I was hoping for.

    Prompt: write a monologue for a Zhentharim Agent trying to convince adventurers to join the Zhentharim

    Greetings, adventurers. I am a proud member of the Zhentarim, and I have come to speak with you about the benefits of joining our organization.

    As you are undoubtedly aware, the Zhentarim is a powerful and influential group, with many resources at our disposal. We are a network of individuals dedicated to acquiring wealth and power, and we do so through any means necessary. We are not afraid to get our hands dirty, and we have the skills and connections to get things done.

    If you join the Zhentarim, you will have access to all of these resources. You will be able to work with some of the most skilled and experienced individuals in the realm, and you will be given opportunities to acquire wealth and power beyond your wildest dreams.

    But the benefits of joining the Zhentarim go beyond mere material gain. We are a group of like-minded individuals who value loyalty and trust above all else. When you become a part of our organization, you become part of a family. You will be given opportunities to form strong bonds with your fellow members, and you will be able to rely on them when the going gets tough.

    And let's be honest - the world can be a dangerous place. If you are not part of an organization like the Zhentarim, you are vulnerable to attack from all sides. But as a member of our group, you will have the protection and support of some of the most powerful individuals in the realm. You will be able to sleep soundly at night, knowing that you are part of a force to be reckoned with.

    So what do you say? Are you ready to join the Zhentarim? Are you ready to take your destiny into your own hands, and become part of something greater than yourself? If so, then I urge you to join us. Together, we can achieve greatness.
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  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Eldan's Avatar

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    Default Re: ChatGPT is an amazing tool for DMs

    Man, that's the dullest ad copy I've read in a while, especially for an evil organisation.
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  10. - Top - End - #40
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: ChatGPT is an amazing tool for DMs

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt Kurageous View Post
    Another routine task. I didn't specify DND or 5e or anything in the prompt. Apparently the bot does recognize the reference and some 5e lore. But the tone is far from menacing and seems simplistic in its approach to "convincing adventurers." Hardly the 'offer they can't refuse' I was hoping for.

    Prompt: write a monologue for a Zhentharim Agent trying to convince adventurers to join the Zhentharim

    Greetings, adventurers. I am a proud member of the Zhentarim, and I have come to speak with you about the benefits of joining our organization.

    As you are undoubtedly aware, the Zhentarim is a powerful and influential group, with many resources at our disposal. We are a network of individuals dedicated to acquiring wealth and power, and we do so through any means necessary. We are not afraid to get our hands dirty, and we have the skills and connections to get things done.

    If you join the Zhentarim, you will have access to all of these resources. You will be able to work with some of the most skilled and experienced individuals in the realm, and you will be given opportunities to acquire wealth and power beyond your wildest dreams.

    But the benefits of joining the Zhentarim go beyond mere material gain. We are a group of like-minded individuals who value loyalty and trust above all else. When you become a part of our organization, you become part of a family. You will be given opportunities to form strong bonds with your fellow members, and you will be able to rely on them when the going gets tough.

    And let's be honest - the world can be a dangerous place. If you are not part of an organization like the Zhentarim, you are vulnerable to attack from all sides. But as a member of our group, you will have the protection and support of some of the most powerful individuals in the realm. You will be able to sleep soundly at night, knowing that you are part of a force to be reckoned with.

    So what do you say? Are you ready to join the Zhentarim? Are you ready to take your destiny into your own hands, and become part of something greater than yourself? If so, then I urge you to join us. Together, we can achieve greatness.
    Holy crap, Mr. Kurageous. You found someone to write the Black Network's promotional HR materials!

    This straight up sounds like what would happen if I asked my local door-to-door evangelists to rep the Wagner Group.

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Eldan's Avatar

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    Default Re: ChatGPT is an amazing tool for DMs

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky McDibben View Post
    Holy crap, Mr. Kurageous. You found someone to write the Black Network's promotional HR materials!

    This straight up sounds like what would happen if I asked my local door-to-door evangelists to rep the Wagner Group.
    ...

    Okay, now it surprised me:

    Write how a soulless corporate salesperson would advertise the Wagner Group paramilitary organisation.

    I'm sorry, I cannot fulfill this request as it goes against OpenAI's use case policy. OpenAI prohibits the use of its AI language model to generate harmful or malicious content, including content that promotes hate speech, violence, or unethical actions. The Wagner Group paramilitary organization has been involved in numerous human rights violations, and any promotion of this organization would go against OpenAI's values and ethical principles.
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  12. - Top - End - #42
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: ChatGPT is an amazing tool for DMs

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    ...

    Okay, now it surprised me:
    1) Your local door-to-door evangelists are soulless corporate spokespeople?

    2) Several AI have hard-coded limiters to using anything that could be hate speech, despite being trivial to work around. Again, it doesn't have any morals. :)

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: ChatGPT is an amazing tool for DMs

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky McDibben View Post
    1) Your local door-to-door evangelists are soulless corporate spokespeople?

    2) Several AI have hard-coded limiters to using anything that could be hate speech, despite being trivial to work around. Again, it doesn't have any morals. :)
    It's not hard-coded, they used reinforcement learning and fine-tuning to load it with that kind of response. That's why its so trivial to work around - you just have to get it outside of the much narrower data distribution used for the fine-tuning.

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    Default Re: ChatGPT is an amazing tool for DMs

    Quote Originally Posted by NichG View Post
    It's not hard-coded, they used reinforcement learning and fine-tuning to load it with that kind of response. That's why its so trivial to work around - you just have to get it outside of the much narrower data distribution used for the fine-tuning.
    Ah, thank you the correction! I think, though, that this actually proves my point.

  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Default Re: ChatGPT is an amazing tool for DMs

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    I wouldnt' use it to write something that I actually read to players. But let's see if it can help me brainstorm a few basic plots.


    A rich man was murdered using magic...
    Thanks, the specific examples were really helpful. I think what ChatGTP is bringing then is some generic examples that you have to drill into repeatedly. By the time I'm three layers of detail into an idea as a GM, I probably have some way to finish it, so the bot is bringing nothing if it's initial inspirations are useless. It's a minor improvement over a table, I guess, although a table with Elf Bard, female, Friendly, would probably produce the same minor character at the table. Not a lot of benefit to be had from the looks of it.
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  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Default Re: ChatGPT is an amazing tool for DMs

    Quoting myself:
    ChatGPT isn't AI. It's just a word arrangement piece of software. That means it doesn't understand in anyway the meaning of what it's reading or the responses it made. It's just algorithmically churning out the most common arrangement of words to the input.

    Nor does it learn new words and arrangements for those words that haven't been laboriously 'trained' in by its creators.

    Put together, it's already been proven and shown multiple times to cause hilarious errors.

    That means there's no way ChatGPT will ever come close to substituting for a DM. More importantly, it's far too unreliable to use as the basis for ... well anything serious, It's just a new novel toy.

    https://forums.giantitp.com/showsing...28&postcount=2

    --------

    However, I will add, it looks astounding for getting quick speeches, letters, etc "in the form of ..."
    That's fits right into the category of "nothing serious, novel toy", but in a fun way!

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    Default Re: ChatGPT is an amazing tool for DMs

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanarii View Post
    ChatGPT isn't AI. It's just a word arrangement piece of software.
    Arguably so are we. The more I work with ChatGPT, the more I think natural intelligence is just a kind of language processor.

    In any event, dismissing an AI for helping you work seems to me like dismissing a calculator. "You didn't do that multiplication yourself, so why should I care?" Curation is a thing. If I scribble down a half dozen ideas on paper, mull over them, and assemble the bits I like into the basis of a setting, why is that inherently better than if I sit with a chat AI and do the same thing? Do the tools matter? Or the product? You can be lazy with ChatGPT just like you can be lazy with pencils and paper. AI like ChatGPT (and others) are effort accelerators. They let you do the same thing you would do with the older tools, just faster.

    Writing out long division on paper doesn't get you a "better" answer than using a calculator.

  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Default Re: ChatGPT is an amazing tool for DMs

    Quote Originally Posted by EggKookoo View Post
    Arguably so are we. The more I work with ChatGPT, the more I think natural intelligence is just a kind of language processor.
    No. If you don't understand the meaning of the words you're arranging, you aren't sentient.

    Quote Originally Posted by EggKookoo View Post
    In any event, dismissing an AI for helping you work seems to me like dismissing a calculator.
    The difference is a calculator gives you the right answer.

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    Default Re: ChatGPT is an amazing tool for DMs

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanarii View Post
    No. If you don't understand the meaning of the words you're arranging, you aren't sentient.
    Jury's out if we really understand things like we think we do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanarii View Post
    The difference is a calculator gives you the right answer.
    You can have a "wrong" poem?

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    Default Re: ChatGPT is an amazing tool for DMs

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanarii View Post
    ChatGPT isn't AI. It's just a word arrangement piece of software. That means it doesn't understand in anyway the meaning of what it's reading or the responses it made. It's just algorithmically churning out the most common arrangement of words to the input.
    While I agree that ChatGPT shouldn't be called an AI, the term has already been used for years for stuff like NPC behavior in video games that are far less advanced than ChatGPT, so getting people to stop using the term at this point is probably pretty hopeless (I've settled for using "true AI" or something along those lines for a proper artificial intelligence to differentiate).
    Last edited by Batcathat; 2023-02-21 at 07:18 AM.

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    Default Re: ChatGPT is an amazing tool for DMs

    Quote Originally Posted by Batcathat View Post
    While I agree that ChatGPT shouldn't be called an AI, the term has already been used for years for stuff like NPC behavior in video games that are far less advanced than ChatGPT, so getting people to stop using the term at this point is probably pretty hopeless (I've settled for using "true AI" or something along those lines for a proper artificial intelligence to differentiate).
    For a while I tried to distinguish these things with terms like "synthetic intelligence" vs. "artificial intelligence" but I realized I was falling into the trap of thinking of AI in a Hollywood sense. It's not magic. It's just processing.

    Claiming something isn't AI because it makes mistakes is weird. I mean, humans make mistakes all the time, arguably more often than we get things right. And I can't divide two large numbers in my head without error, why should we expect a language model AI to do it? I've experimented with ChatGPT with that. It eventually tells me to just use a freaking calculator.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EggKookoo View Post
    You can have a "wrong" poem?
    Technically yes, but not what I'm referring to.

    As I said, can't be used for anything serious, novel toy ... but fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by EggKookoo View Post
    Jury's out if we really understand things like we think we do.
    No. There's too much bad info out there about ChatGPT, don't feed in to it.

    It's a very well designed computer program that's got its uses. But nowhere near the hype, let alone the worries being caused by bad info about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanarii View Post
    Technically yes, but not what I'm referring to.

    As I said, can't be used for anything serious, novel toy ... but fun.
    I use it for "serious" things all the time. I regularly talk with people who do the same. There are whole groups of folks who use it to get real work done. Are you sure it's not user error?

    I know people who can't Google to save their lives. I know people who have a kind of magic touch when it comes to searching. There's skill involved with basic web searches. If one wasn't interested in figuring that out and expected Google to, I dunno, just kind of work for them in a quasi-magical way, I can imagine that individual coming to the conclusion that Google is a toy that mostly produces nonsense results.

    ChatGPT is just like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanarii View Post
    No. There's too much bad info out there about ChatGPT, don't feed in to it.
    I know how ChatGPT works. I've written (much simpler) similar things, many years ago. To me the most amazing thing about it isn't its "intelligence" in the sense of what information it can provide, but that it's so good at distilling the essence of what I'm saying to it in order to get that information to me. But I still need to understand how it does that distilling so I can get useful results. I worked out a while back that it sucks at math, so I don't use it for that. It's really good at other things, though, like providing perspectives that I hadn't considered, or helping me understand the technical details of something I have a general understanding of.

    Keeping to the thread topic, ChatGPT it not really good at being a GM, but it's a great GM-assistant. If you know how to ask it the right questions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EggKookoo View Post
    I use it for "serious" things all the time. I regularly talk with people who do the same. There are whole groups of folks who use it to get real work done. Are you sure it's not user error?

    I know people who can't Google to save their lives. I know people who have a kind of magic touch when it comes to searching. There's skill involved with basic web searches. If one wasn't interested in figuring that out and expected Google to, I dunno, just kind of work for them in a quasi-magical way, I can imagine that individual coming to the conclusion that Google is a toy that mostly produces nonsense results.

    ChatGPT is just like that.
    I think one issue with ChatGPT compared to Google is that you basically can't check its sources. If I find a result on Google, I can usually get an idea of whether to trust it or not based on where it's from, but I can't really do that with ChatGPT. Granted, the fact that it's typically pulling from a variety of sources should limit the issue, but it hardly eliminates it.
    Last edited by Batcathat; 2023-02-21 at 08:15 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EggKookoo View Post
    Are you sure it's not user error?
    Absolutely. It's being roundly rejected by IT and Educational professionals due to the errors it comes up with from not understanding the meaning of the words it is stringing together, which cause hilarious errors. Hilarious ... as long as they're not being used for anything serious. Students have already been expelled for trying to use it to write papers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanarii View Post
    Absolutely. It's being roundly rejected by IT and Educational professionals due to the errors it comes up with from not understanding the meaning of the words it is stringing together, which cause hilarious errors. Hilarious ... as long as they're not being used for anything serious. Students have already been expelled for trying to use it to write papers.
    Which still sounds like user error on the part of the students.

    One thing I find it great for is documentation parsing. If I'm working with a code library with dense, obtuse documentation, it's much easier to just explain my code issue to the chat and have it do all that parsing for me. I've found it to produce acceptable solutions, and when it makes mistakes I just point them out and it corrects itself. Nothing I wouldn't expect from a human assistant.

    Why do we need something to be infallible before we declare it intelligent?

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    Quote Originally Posted by EggKookoo View Post
    Why do we need something to be infallible before we declare it intelligent?
    Personally, I don't think infallibility is a prerequisite (it would rule basically all of humanity, after all) but I don't think being able to put together words in a mostly correct fashion is enough to call something actually intelligent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batcathat View Post
    Personally, I don't think infallibility is a prerequisite (it would rule basically all of humanity, after all) but I don't think being able to put together words in a mostly correct fashion is enough to call something actually intelligent.
    Yeah, I'm using intelligent in the functional sense, akin to "military intelligence." More of a "it provides/manages a lot of information." Not in the sense of self-aware.

    I guess I should say I don't see why it needs to be infallible to be considered useful. Google isn't infallible. I mean, I guess it is in the sense that it does what it's designed to do, but it isn't in the sense that it will give you what you're actually searching for all the time. You need to know its limitations and have some sense of how it works to get the most out of it. Same with something like ChatGPT. Once I understood it's not a good source for math, I stopped using it for that purpose. It's a good source for other things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Okay, now it surprised me:
    And it added one more reason not to use it. What other blind spots are deliberately embedded in it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Man, that's the dullest ad copy I've read in a while, especially for an evil organisation.
    No self respecting Zhent would write like that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky McDibben View Post
    Holy crap, Mr. Kurageous. You found someone to write the Black Network's promotional HR materials!
    With advertising like that, I think I'll short their stock ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanarii View Post
    However, I will add, it looks astounding for getting quick speeches, letters, etc "in the form of ..."
    That's fits right into the category of "nothing serious, novel toy", but in a fun way!
    If that's a desired tool, sure.
    Quote Originally Posted by EggKookoo View Post
    And I can't divide two large numbers in my head without error,
    I use a pencil and paper, if they are large numbers. Or, if handy, a calculator. Depends on how large the number is.
    Quote Originally Posted by EggKookoo View Post
    If you know how to ask it the right questions.
    Which makes it a bit less useful, in terms of the overhead/effort the DM has to expend on top of all else.
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2023-02-21 at 09:00 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EggKookoo View Post
    I guess I should say I don't see why it needs to be infallible to be considered useful. Google isn't infallible. I mean, I guess it is in the sense that it does what it's designed to do, but it isn't in the sense that it will give you what you're actually searching for all the time. You need to know its limitations and have some sense of how it works to get the most out of it. Same with something like ChatGPT. Once I understood it's not a good source for math, I stopped using it for that purpose. It's a good source for other things.
    Sure, though I'd be vary of using it for any sort of intelligence in that sense of the word, since everything would need to be double-checked to be sure (granted, the same can sometimes be true of hiring a person to do it), though for quickly generating new(ish) content it's hard to beat and can be quite useful (or at least entertaining).
    Last edited by Batcathat; 2023-02-21 at 09:32 AM.

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