Questionable Content XIX: Give Jeph Just A *Little* Credit, Here

[Traab]

We already knew AIs can reasonably approximate high or drunk status at will, the ability to be drowsy isnt exactly out there. Slow processing speed, put little skips in input so they miss things going on around them, and bobs your uncle. As for why, the same reason why for literally anything humanish they do. Because. I did like the idea of her being an experiment in a chassis thats as close to being alive in the biological sense as possible. Not just for the greater ability to do human stuff, but even self healing capabilities would be nice, albeit slower than going to a mechanic. Or operating as a bridge between man and machine.

[The Glyphstone]

Why does Cubetown even have a security officer, other than AI theater? It seems like the overlap between 'Crimes likely to happen on Cubetown' and 'Crimes she is capable of handling' is very small.

[Ionathus]

I think AI theater really does make the most sense. AIs are trying to replicate a human population center, and to their knowledge that includes security/law enforcement of some sort, so somebody's gotta put on that costume and act the part.

Why they picked seemingly the only AI who's capable of human-comparable drowsiness (really, more-than-human-comparable drowsiness, since I've never seen any IRL tired person start stripping in public) is anyone's guess.

[Vinyadan]

'Crimea likely to happen on Cubetown'

Now, THAT would be a hell of a plotline!

[Mechalich]

Huh, well, if I ever wanted to submit evidence that Jeph reads this thread, today's strip would be exhibit A.

[The Glyphstone]

I'd doubt it but I do think he reads Reddit, and our opinions are a microcosm of the ones there so overlap is inevitable.

[Ionathus]

Huh, well, if I ever wanted to submit evidence that Jeph reads this thread, today's strip would be exhibit A.

Y'know, I thought the same thing. Probably not though -- I figure these are just the most natural questions to follow on the last scene. I've noticed this happen in Order of the Stick a lot too (especially in talky scenes, like the Durkon/Redcloak meeting), where the forum spends a ton of time essentially extrapolating the characters' next conversation beat while we're waiting for the next strip. Webcomics are immensely weird and unique for this, since they're basically the only medium where the audience can consume a portion of a scene and then react to it publicly before the author has finished that scene.

Of course, it could also be Jeph going "oh crap that's right AI can't get drowsy" and doing a quick retcon/explanation. It's kind of weird he didn't acknowledge it at all in the initial two strips, so the explanation seems clunky. But in this case I am, indeed, willing to give Jeph just a *little* credit here.

[Willie the Duck]

I've noticed this happen in Order of the Stick a lot too (especially in talky scenes, like the Durkon/Redcloak meeting), where the forum spends a ton of time essentially extrapolating the characters' next conversation beat while we're waiting for the next strip. Webcomics are immensely weird and unique for this, since they're basically the only medium where the audience can consume a portion of a scene and then react to it publicly before the author has finished that scene.

I know BITD Pete of Sluggy Freelance had to ban speculation in the parts of his forum he was self-allowed to be in* because one or more persons claimed that he stole their idea.
* there was a 'spec' thread he declared that he did not read

[Vinyadan]

I know BITD Pete of Sluggy Freelance had to ban speculation in the parts of his forum he was self-allowed to be in* because one or more persons claimed that he stole their idea.
* there was a 'spec' thread he declared that he did not read

Dan Shive (author of EGS) asked people not to write EGS fanfiction, because he was worried about ideas overlapping and creating the impression of plagiarism.

[Wraith]

Jeph has publicly stated that he doesn't read any Reddit or other forums about QC. Pretty much the sole source of feedback he gets is in patreon, which I suspect tends to be nice because A) people willing to pay for QC are probably onboard with what he's doing and B) he can directly and deliberately curate the people he doesn't want to hear from.

Also, it's pretty clear that he just ignores them too; they get the comic a day early, and yet he still doesn;t do anything when they point out that he has misnumbered a comic, or left in a layer than makes Claire's spectacles overlay on top of her nose, or something.

Honestly, I think this is an example of people being too quick to criticise. The first comic was the joke wherein Evan was being dopey, the second comic was the joke where Evan confirmed that she was sleepwalking, then the comic returned indoors to have Claire scold what's-her-face, and today Marten has just walked back in to mention that it even happened.

It's not an amazing joke, but we've seen joke, then clarification, then established a change of setting, then explanation in 4 comics. That makes sense, really. Who else was Marten going to talk about it with until he walked back into the room? Wouldn't people have complained about the pacing if Marten walked back in, they discussed Evan, and THEN Claire brought up Hannelore again even though we had clearly moved on from that subject?

Sure, the 'sleepyhead syndrome' thing is really stupid, in terms of just the name if not what it actually does, but that's normal for QC AIs. Not the funniest thing ever in the comic, but... Its fine.

[Mechalich]

Honestly, I think this is an example of people being too quick to criticise. The first comic was the joke wherein Evan was being dopey, the second comic was the joke where Evan confirmed that she was sleepwalking, then the comic returned indoors to have Claire scold what's-her-face, and today Marten has just walked back in to mention that it even happened.

It's not an amazing joke, but we've seen joke, then clarification, then established a change of setting, then explanation in 4 comics. That makes sense, really. Who else was Marten going to talk about it with until he walked back into the room? Wouldn't people have complained about the pacing if Marten walked back in, they discussed Evan, and THEN Claire brought up Hannelore again even though we had clearly moved on from that subject?

While the clarification did come rapidly, there was still a delay and that delay was long enough for the audience to mull over it. This is a thing with pacing and structure when publishing in a serial format, the author needs to be conscious that the audience is reading in little snippets and has to adjust things accordingly. This is most obvious in daily comic strips, which may carry a long-term story, but need a punchline every single day. That actually relates to the current issue. QC #5031 is supposed to be funny, but instead it came off, in the moment as, huh? That release, on that specific day, is a loss, regardless of later clarification. Comedy relies on timing, and this is a flub.

Now, this is a very minor case. It's one comic about a relatively unimportant character and was almost immediately addressed. Whether Jeph either anticipated or observed fan reaction, the necessary course correction was made, in frankly about as timely a fashion as possible. Certainly better than previously questions in this regard like 'how do Moray even exist?' which took weeks to get answered. I've seen, way, way worse. Long-running Shounen Manga sometimes leave characters in the 'are they really dead?' Schrodinger Story Space for real-time years, which is unconscionable.

[halfeye]

Comedy relies on timing, and this is a flub.

Not always. Tony Hancock was acclaimed as a master of timing, he used to "um" and "ah" a bit to get it to his satisfaction, but others didn't rely on timing so much and were in my opinion just as funny.

[Rodin]

Long-running Shounen Manga sometimes leave characters in the 'are they really dead?' Schrodinger Story Space for real-time years, which is unconscionable.

Bleach was so bad about this that I got massively confused when I started watching the new Thousand Year Blood War series. There's a whole raft of characters I swear we saw die on screen who show up in the opening episodes. I'm not talking one or two, there's like six or seven different people who I thought were dead.

On the other hand, Bleach doesn't even come close to matching the length of time Sara has been in Shrodinger's Allosaurus.

[Johanny]

It's also possible that Jeph has friends/relatives who give him input of some sort.
I don't think he'd have an editor, not a good one anyway, but that's also a possibility.

[Wraith]

A persistent rumour is that his ex-wife was also his unofficially official editor, which is why the comic started getting especially weird (arguably, down-turning) in about 2014 - although the breakup was said to be amicable, the stress of the breakup and the loss of her as a creative resource probably had something to do with it.

A similar rumour is that he doesn't rely on his current partner in a similar way, either because she isn't interested in unpaid work or because Jeph doesn't want to fall into the same old pattern.

I have no way to substantiate any of this, it may just be a coincidence of timing, but it implies that Jeph doesn't have an editor, certainly not one with expertise nor used full-time.

[tomandtish]

Dan Shive (author of EGS) asked people not to write EGS fanfiction, because he was worried about ideas overlapping and creating the impression of plagiarism.

Babylon 5: JMS commented on Lurker's guide back in the day that there was one episode that almost wasn't made. He'd written it out then realized that someone had posted (on another site even) an identical plot suggestion. He had to make contact with the fan and make sure they were cool with it being used. Since then he specifically asked people to not send him plot ideas.

The episode was "Passing Through Gethsemane" (season 3 Ep 4). JMS's quote:

On the story question...yes, this was the story that someone else (don't want to use names, no sense in blaming anyone) had accidentally suggested while I was working on it early in season two. So I had to scuttle the script for nearly a year. Finally, very chagrined over what happened, the individual gave me a notarized form explaining the situation. At that point, I was able to reactivate the story. So no, it's not any kind of "it's okay to do this" notion about story ideas; as it is, the story was tied up for about a year, and might never have seen the light of day had not the other person made great efforts to set the situation straight.

On another service, someone without considering what he was saying (not his fault, it just happened) said, in essence, "What if somebody on B5 found out that he had been mind-wiped, and used to be something awful previously?" Well, I'd had "Passing Through Gethsemane" on the wire at that time, but when I saw this, I had to scuttle the story. It lay there, untouched, for over a year, until I could finally meet the fellow and get a signed release indicating what'd happened. If that fan had not been fair and reasonable, that episode -- which many consider one of our best -- would never have been made.

[Vinyadan]

Lol, Evan reads like a groveling toad. She's ready to kneel in front of someone who is about to achieve a position of status, but will assault anyone who she even just suspects might disturb the powerful.

OK, OK, she actually just really really wants Claire to take the job. Which gets embarassing for other reasons -- "Don't you try to disturb Claire you horrible disabled person I am lifting from her prosthetics, nyaaaaa!"

[Wraith]

The art in this update is atrocious. Liz' stool has twice the circumference as Marten or Claire's, for some reason. Claire and Marten are apparently sitting so far back that their butts are hovering in mid-air, probably because they were poorly copy/pasted onto a single copy/pasted stool. Then in between panel 2 and 3, not only does Liz' stool completely disappear, but so does the space where it ought to have been. Also, Evan seems to be wearing a garbage bag that's had holes torn out of it rather than a vest, and somehow the bartender has teleported through the bar to stand next to Moray.

It's also strange that Evan is acting like she knows Liz to be some kind of persistent trouble-maker, immediately suspecting her of being likely to insult and offend Claire. But... how? The last time she might have seen Liz would have been 2 years ago when she first started, and she's done nothing but hide and avoid any interactions with anyone else ever since. This isn't like Pintsize who has pranked and harassed everyone in the cast and is well known for it; this is the gremlin child who thinks she has Skyrim skill trees and hides behind benches rather than speak to someone directly.

Not that I especially desire another tedious week of strips where every character exhaustively explains how and when they were introduced to each of the others, but it would be nice if someone in the comic didn't immediately remember every detail about a stranger they sort-of saw once 2 years ago, or at least remark how weird it would be for the recluse to be out drinking in public. Or something. Anything.

[Ionathus]

Just because Liz is a recluse doesn’t mean she hasn’t ever ventured out of her place. She’s not in physical quarantine, she’s just antisocial.

That’s the least of my complaints about this strip, though. Mostly it’s just crass and grating. Why did Liz suddenly turn into an obnoxious pervert? That last quote from Liz is straight-up Early Pintsize levels of sexual harassment, except coming from a human adult it’s even more egregious, drunken or not.

[Rodin]

Liz seems to be an attempt to write the most unpleasant character possible without resorting to racism/bigotry. A character that isn't evil or malicious, but is SO irksome anyway that you want to bury them 50 feet deep in a steel box.

Exactly why Jeph has decided to write this character is a mystery to me. Then again, he seems to think "character X is being a goblin" is the height of comedy, only topped by "character Y is drunk". A character that combines both of these traits is probably considered the zen perfection of his art.

[KillianHawkeye]

I still don't understand how Evan went from being so flat-chested I wouldn't have guessed she was supposed to be female if it hadn't been explicitly pointed out to now having "huge tits" as her only notable feature.

[Mechalich]

I still don't understand how Evan went from being so flat-chested I wouldn't have guessed she was supposed to be female if it hadn't been explicitly pointed out to now having "huge tits" as her only notable feature.

Ballistic vests, which involve placing a flattened plate of distinctly-without-flexibility kevlar atop one's chest, have a truly impressive capability to suppress the visibility of 'chestiness' in human law enforcement officers, so it's not the most egregious misrepresentation possible, but I agree that Evan looks significantly different that previously drawn. She's got a gun-show going on now too, which I feel was previously absent.

[SaintRidley]

I'm gonna save that front loader line. I feel like it could be a hit with some of my people, at least.

[KillianHawkeye]

Ballistic vests, which involve placing a flattened plate of distinctly-without-flexibility kevlar atop one's chest, have a truly impressive capability to suppress the visibility of 'chestiness' in human law enforcement officers, so it's not the most egregious misrepresentation possible, but I agree that Evan looks significantly different that previously drawn. She's got a gun-show going on now too, which I feel was previously absent.

This may be possible, but considering that Evan doesn't carry a gun and her vest was filled with snacks, I'm doubtful that it was really a top notch bullet-proof tactical vest with form-obscuring kevlar plating. If such things were necessary in Cubetown, they'd probably have more than one security officer...

[Mechalich]

This may be possible, but considering that Evan doesn't carry a gun and her vest was filled with snacks, I'm doubtful that it was really a top notch bullet-proof tactical vest with form-obscuring kevlar plating. If such things were necessary in Cubetown, they'd probably have more than one security officer...

Anyone can buy a ballistic vest, and Evan is clearly shown wearing a ballistic vest carrier (though yes, it is possible that there are no plates inside). However, given the way that she's drawn in comics such as #4939, said vest is both far too low on the chest to offer proper protection (I mean, not that AIs have a heart which renders the whole exercise kind of pointless) and in a position that would crimp her breasts down in a fashion that, assuming anything like a human's nerve-structure, must pinch unbelievably brutally.

[Wraith]

Just because Liz is a recluse doesn’t mean she hasn’t ever ventured out of her place. She’s not in physical quarantine, she’s just antisocial.

Absolutely true, 2 years is a long time to go without meeting ANYONE in person.

I still think its at odds with the story being told, though. On the one hand, Liz has been a recluse for 2 years, shouting at Moray through the door, lying to her parents on the 'phone, and wallowing in piles of her own garbage 3 feet deep. She hides from people in public like she's in a video game, and her clothes are being chewed by rats; surely if anyone had seen (or smelled) her within that time period, concerns would have been raised? Apparently not?

But also; she's a gremlin who has a reputation for annoying people so consistently that the Head of Security apparently knows her well enough to recognise even when people pronounce her name incorrectly. Being snarky at a presentation 2 years ago isn't really enough to garner someone a notorious reputation like this?

Anyone can buy a ballistic vest, and Evan is clearly shown wearing a ballistic vest carrier (though yes, it is possible that there are no plates inside). However, given the way that she's drawn in comics such as #4939, said vest is both far too low on the chest to offer proper protection (I mean, not that AIs have a heart which renders the whole exercise kind of pointless) and in a position that would crimp her breasts down in a fashion that, assuming anything like a human's nerve-structure, must pinch unbelievably brutally.

Also her nose has apparently been broken at some point in the last 2 hours. When she was first introduced, it was quite romanesque, and now it has same upturned anime thing that everyone else has.

In summary: The past is an illusion, remembering things that happened is a crime, do not assume anything has to make sense. There are only pastel people and boobies, anything else is irrelevant.

[Cikomyr2]

I still don't understand how Evan went from being so flat-chested I wouldn't have guessed she was supposed to be female if it hadn't been explicitly pointed out to now having "huge tits" as her only notable feature.

Is actually very common for female armor or female clothes to deliberately flatten the boobs. Only horny drawers and designers make female armor that emphasize the boobiness of the wearer, because the shape will not only diminish the range of movement the user will be able to afford in combat situation, it actually becomes a weak point easy to bash and crush the rib cage with undistributed force.

[The Glyphstone]

Maybe there's a telephone effect at play? If Evan only knows Liz by reputation due to her being a recluse, and that reputation has been amplified and exaggerated over time, she's got the worst impression already.

[Ionathus]

Absolutely true, 2 years is a long time to go without meeting ANYONE in person.

I still think its at odds with the story being told, though. On the one hand, Liz has been a recluse for 2 years, shouting at Moray through the door, lying to her parents on the 'phone, and wallowing in piles of her own garbage 3 feet deep. She hides from people in public like she's in a video game, and her clothes are being chewed by rats; surely if anyone had seen (or smelled) her within that time period, concerns would have been raised? Apparently not?

But also; she's a gremlin who has a reputation for annoying people so consistently that the Head of Security apparently knows her well enough to recognise even when people pronounce her name incorrectly. Being snarky at a presentation 2 years ago isn't really enough to garner someone a notorious reputation like this?

Funny enough, I debated saying something about this exact thing to my last post. How does Liz both have a reputation as a horrible disruptive goblin with the Head of Security, but also "completely fell off Cubetown's radar" to the point that Claire felt justified in ascribing moral judgment to Moray & other 'leaders'?

(Though now that I'm saying this, it occurs to me that the Real World definitely has its fair share of work environments with this same dynamic, unfortunately. "Oh yeah, that's Jambro Borpherston, he's a horrible garbageperson to everyone he meets, never talk to him, I think he has rats living in his office?? Dunno what he does here, maybe finance...best not to question it." The power of the SEP field is immense.)

Also her nose has apparently been broken at some point in the last 2 hours. When she was first introduced, it was quite romanesque, and now it has same upturned anime thing that everyone else has.

In summary: The past is an illusion, remembering things that happened is a crime, do not assume anything has to make sense. There are only pastel people and boobies, anything else is irrelevant.

Evan is a perfect case study in what happens to any character that lasts for more than 2 appearances in the current era of QC: the nose swerves upwards to match everyone else's, and the boobification begins.

Honestly the noses are what get to me the most. Once someone pointed it out, I started noticing it, and it's impossible to ignore how absolutely homogenous the noses are now. Especially compared to how varied they used to be!

[Vinyadan]

The reason why I feel uncomfortable with Elizabeth's story is exactly that it could have happened in plain sight, and no one would have stepped in; there would just have been some chatter, and some would have put some exceptional petty gusto in pointing her out, and that would have been it.

It's a very different environment from QC; it isn't about friends or people having fun. Its about... The workplace