BisectedBrioche's Brilliant Bread Random Banter Bthread #243

[Rynjin]

You cultivate a very different impression, though. You often provide hypothetical scenarios you wish would be the case in which people are damaged inordinately, sometimes for no reason other than because you would like it that way.

If you want to give off the impression that you do not fantasize about hurting people, then the first step would ideally be to not put out treaties that fantasize about hurting people.

Meh. Fantasizing about hurting people is normal. Intrusive thoughts are normal. Expressing them and venting about it is normal.

The only thing that wouldn't be normal is acting on it.

If thinking about the guy who cut you off flying into a ditch and exploding makes you feel better, do it. It doesn't mean you actually want it to happen, and certainly doesn't imply that you'd MAKE it happen.

[LaZodiac]

I like to believe that this is not supposed to be about me, but in the off chance: see above. My gripe with Mulan is likewise the portrayal of conflict between "Good" settled populations and "Always Chaotic Evil barbarian" nomads.

Oh no not at all aimed at you, you're not a bigot you just don't like a universally panned movie because it bucks the source material. I mean the weirdo's who get upset that Heimdall is black in the Thor movies. They can stick it up they ass imho.

Did The Expanse REALLY need to look exactly like Battlestar Galactica (but with more blue, I guess), or was it just a subtle nostalgia bait? I don't know, but I sure was already bored of that visual style years ago.

Does it really look like Battlestar Galactica? And if it does, does the fact that The Expanse was written by someone who definitely was inspired by that show not mean it at least makes sense to share some visual similarities?

[Keltest]

I don't want to appear as a threat. Brother, I already appear as a threat according to some people.

I just don't want people to look at me and see a target.

Right, ok, but what you say, with some frequency, is "I dont want people to see me as a target because I am too dangerous to attack."

As Peelee said, if you have a persistent history of several independent and unrelated groups of people telling you in unambiguous terms that you come off as threatening to them, it may be worth it to examine your behavior and see what you're doing that is threatening people.

[Batcathat]

Does it really look like Battlestar Galactica? And if it does, does the fact that The Expanse was written by someone who definitely was inspired by that show not mean it at least makes sense to share some visual similarities?

Yeah, I feel like any similarities they do share are pretty reasonable, considering they're both hard-ish science fiction dramas taking place primarily in space, the same way it makes sense for Warehouse 13 to share some similarities with others of the "duo investigates mysteries with witty comments and occasional sexual tension" genre.

[Rater202]

Meh. Fantasizing about hurting people is normal. Intrusive thoughts are normal. Expressing them and venting about it is normal.

The only thing that wouldn't be normal is acting on it.

If thinking about the guy who cut you off flying into a ditch and exploding makes you feel better, do it. It doesn't mean you actually want it to happen, and certainly doesn't imply that you'd MAKE it happen.

...So I don't do that. I don't think that's normal.

The worst I've done is fantasize about quickly and cleanly taking out a fictional character who tortures children, attempted to use soul-eating demons to assassinate a politically inconvenient fifteen-year-old, and admitted to both in a room full of witnesses before attempting to use an especially illegal form of torture on a minor, somehow miraculously managed to remain gainfully employed when the rest of the administration she was part of was ousted, and then went on to openly collaborate with genocidal terrorists and feed god-knows how many people to those same sol-eating demons primarily to sate her own sadism and bigotry before she could do most of that.

And honestly, I'm not even sure I could pull the trigger on even a monster like that. I've tried to hurt people who were literally asking for it and I couldn't. The worst I've ever managed to do is grab someone and look them in the eye.

Right, ok, but what you say, with some frequency, is "I dont want people to see me as a target because I am too dangerous to attack."

If that is the only way to avoid being attacked. That doesn't mean "appearing dangerous" is the same as actively threatening people.

As Peelee said, if you have a persistent history of several independent and unrelated groups of people telling you in unambiguous terms that you come off as threatening to them, it may be worth it to examine your behavior and see what you're doing that is threatening people.

You know it is?

I'm six foot tall, broad-shouldered, and neurodivergent. That's all it takes to be seen as a threat in some places.

It has nothing to do with my behavior. It's things that I can't help.

Maybe, assuming that you're correct about my desires being inherently threatening, my only option is to appear to be the kind of threatening where people would rather avoid me than try to preemptively eliminate me. Since just existing makes me a threat to some people.

[Rynjin]

Yeah, I feel like any similarities they do share are pretty reasonable, considering they're both hard-ish science fiction dramas taking place primarily in space, the same way it makes sense for Warehouse 13 to share some similarities with others of the "duo investigates mysteries with witty comments and occasional sexual tension" genre.

Things is, narratively speaking "hard-ish science fiction" is just about the only things they share. Galactica is a war story, and a post-apocalyptic one at that. A war for survival. It's "Hunt for Red October" in space, basically.

The Expanse is a detective story and a political drama, at least what I watched of it. It's "The Maltese Falcon" in space, basically.

But they're shot very similarly a lot of the time. Why?

...So I don't do that. I don't think that's normal.

Psychologists disagree.

[Jasdoif]

Things is, narratively speaking "hard-ish science fiction" is just about the only things they share. Galactica is a war story, and a post-apocalyptic one at that. A war for survival. It's "Hunt for Red October" in space, basically.

Oh, so RDM Battlestar Galactica, then?

[Rynjin]

Oh, so RDM Battlestar Galactica, then?

Yes. The "new" one is the template that sci-fi has been built off of for a long time now, unfortunately.

[Rater202]

Psychologists disagree.

*feelings of being on the wrong planet intensify*

[Keltest]

*feelings of being on the wrong planet intensify*

Eh, its the same kind of short term impulse as "I wish I could have candy for every meal" except applied to a different source. We realize it shouldnt happen, and what bad things would come of it, but it can be fun to fantasize about sometimes.

[Rater202]

Eh, its the same kind of short term impulse as "I wish I could have candy for every meal" except applied to a different source. We realize it shouldnt happen, and what bad things would come of it, but it can be fun to fantasize about sometimes.

...Did I just step into the Twilight Zone?

After the conversation we just had are you sure you're the right person to tell me that fantasizing disproportionate violence on people for minor annoyances is normal, and thus that I am not normal for... Not doing that?

[Keltest]

...Did I just step into the Twilight Zone?

After the conversation we just had are you sure you're the right person to tell me that fantasizing disproportionate violence on people for minor annoyances is normal, and thus that I am not normal for... Not doing that?

I'm generally of the opinion that normalcy is overrated. I take issue with some of the things you say and the way you say them because they are frightening, and in a way that might actually lead to people getting hurt if an understanding is not reached. In this case, the important distinction is an understanding that what we want is bad and we shouldn't get it.

[Rater202]

I'm generally of the opinion that normalcy is overrated. I take issue with some of the things you say and the way you say them because they are frightening, and in a way that might actually lead to people getting hurt if an understanding is not reached. In this case, the important distinction is an understanding that what we want is bad and we shouldn't get it.

...If I have skin that's harder than diamonds and stronger than titanium and I go around wearing a shirt that says "warning, if you hit me you will hurt yourself" is it my fault if someone decides to punch me and breaks their hand in the process?

I do nothing to provoke violence, I do not commit violence, the person who committed violence upon me hurts themselves and was warned about it happening.

Am I responsible? Did I make a threat?

[Keltest]

...If I have skin that's harder than diamonds and stronger than titanium and I go around wearing a shirt that says "warning, if you hit me you will hurt yourself" is it my fault if someone decides to punch me and breaks their hand in the process?

Sure, if you go around baiting people into hitting you.

What is alarming here Rater is that you don't stop at "I wish people couldn't hurt me." You keep going into "Because they're going to get hurt really badly if they try."

Youre implicitly wishing pain on people that you think "deserve" it for being stupid and punching something really strong, for example, and thats scary. Its a very short and slippery slope until you start proactively hurting people with that mindset.

Also, fun fact, if you have a gun on your person, emphasizing that you have a gun is considered a threat and is a crime in many places.

[HalfTangible]

Youre implicitly wishing pain on people that you think "deserve" it for being stupid and punching something really strong, for example, and thats scary. Its a very short and slippery slope until you start proactively hurting people with that mindset.

It really isn't.

[Keltest]

It really isn't.

It kind of is, yeah. Its only a difference of degrees between "he deserved it for attacking me" and "he deserved it for acting in a way I disapprove of".

[Jasdoif]

Yes. The "new" one is the template that sci-fi has been built off of for a long time now, unfortunately.

Geez....I lost interest in it after the first season; the original miniseries was an interesting re-imagining, but the following series was...how do I put this...trying to shoehorn an average political drama and a mediocre psychological thriller together in a nostalgia-shaped box, and lacked finesse with it most of the time.

....did I just describe the template?

[Rater202]

Sure, if you go around baiting people into hitting you.

See my edit.

What is alarming here Rater is that you don't stop at "I wish people couldn't hurt me." You keep going into "Because they're going to get hurt really badly if they try."

It is my experience that only a clear deterrent is effective in curtailing people attempting to inflict physical or emotional harm on others.

The threat of punishment after the fact fails as a deterrent, the people amused by harming others are either too stupid to think that far ahead or have reason to think the authorities will take their side. Or they don't fear punishment.

So the clear deterrent must be in the form of immediate negative consequences. "If you punch me, you will break your hand."

Also, fun fact, if you have a gun on your person, emphasizing that you have a gun is considered a threat and is a crime in many places.

If at any point in time, any part of my body is considered to be legally a gun then I probably have bigger concerns than being harrassed by *******s.

[Rynjin]

Geez....I lost interest in it after the first season; the original miniseries was an interesting re-imagining, but the following series was...how do I put this...trying to shoehorn an average political drama and a mediocre psychological thriller together in a nostalgia-shaped box, and lacked finesse with it most of the time.

....did I just describe the template?

Pretty much.

[Keltest]

See my edit.



It is my experience that only a clear deterrent is effective in curtailing people attempting to inflict physical or emotional harm on others.

The threat of punishment after the fact fails as a deterrent, the people amused by harming others are either too stupid to think that far ahead or have reason to think the authorities will take their side. Or they don't fear punishment.

So the clear deterrent must be in the form of immediate negative consequences. "If you punch me, you will break your hand."
If at any point in time, any part of my body is considered to be legally a gun then I probably have bigger concerns than being harrassed by *******s.

Or you could just freaking wish people were nicer to each other.

I keep bringing up the gun because it's a pretty direct equivalence to what you're asking for.

[Rater202]

Or you could just freaking wish people were nicer to each other.

I am morally opposed to rewriting people's minds or overriding free will.

I keep bringing up the gun because it's a pretty direct equivalence to what you're asking for.

It very much is not.

"I wish I had a body strong enough that I will not be considered an easy target" is not "I wish I had a weapon."

You can't legally ban a black belt or a USMC for getting on an air plane just for being a black belt or a Marine even if their fists are literally registered as lethal weapons.

Something about my body being potentially dangerous does not strip me of my basic rights as a free citizen.

[Keltest]

I am morally opposed to rewriting people's minds or overriding free will.

That's not what I meant, and changing people's behavior through threat of violence is not much better.

[Batcathat]

Things is, narratively speaking "hard-ish science fiction" is just about the only things they share. Galactica is a war story, and a post-apocalyptic one at that. A war for survival. It's "Hunt for Red October" in space, basically.

The Expanse is a detective story and a political drama, at least what I watched of it. It's "The Maltese Falcon" in space, basically.

But they're shot very similarly a lot of the time. Why?

This might be easier if you gave specific examples of how they're so samey and, more importantly, how the same is true of "prestige dramas" across a wide variety of plots and settings, while not true of the supposedly much more varied previous era.

Geez....I lost interest in it after the first season; the original miniseries was an interesting re-imagining, but the following series was...how do I put this...trying to shoehorn an average political drama and a mediocre psychological thriller together in a nostalgia-shaped box, and lacked finesse with it most of the time.

While it had its ups and downs, I really liked it most of the time but I still can't forgive the ending for being both stupid and flying right in the face of its previous themes.

That said, if any show has to influence what sci-fi came after it (which I think BSG has, if not to a massive degree), I can think of a lot worse candidates for it than Battlestar Galactica.

[Rynjin]

This might be easier if you gave specific examples of how they're so samey and, more importantly, how the same is true of "prestige dramas" across a wide variety of plots and settings, while not true of the supposedly much more varied previous era.

I'm gonna be honest, it's not worth it. I made my case, and I have no real desire to go back and dredge through exact plot points that exemplify what I'm talking about in a bunch of shows I don't like and haven't watched in years.

TL;DR: Streaming services were a mistake, they're nothing but trash.

[Aedilred]

I tend to agree with much of this (although I do hope the Tinder thing is an exaggeration),

Sadly, it is not.

but I resent the implication that my fuming over what I perceive as bad stuff being funnel-fed to children, to put it a bit bluntly, is somehow tantamount to "infantilising myself". Note that the movie I brought up was Atlantis, a work that I find more appropriate and enjoyable a watch for folks older than twelve.

Yeah, that wasn't what I meant, so I'm sorry if it came across that way. Frustration at the poor quality of child-targetted media and expression/explanation of that is, I think, perfectly valid. It's more the surrounding discussion that I was thinking of.

[Jasdoif]

I'm gonna be honest, it's not worth it. I made my case, and I have no real desire to go back and dredge through exact plot points that exemplify what I'm talking about in a bunch of shows I don't like and haven't watched in years.

TL;DR: Streaming services were a mistake, they're nothing but trash.

Hm. Your wording reminds of me of a theory....


Basically, the idea is that technology has allowed corporations to grow larger than ever, which has resulted in exponentially larger diseconomies of scale; the largest corporations can now take a loss where previously the largest corporations would have taken an anemic profit, and corporate executives have become paranoid. The watershed moment in this theory is Solo: as Peelee's said, Star Wars is basically a license to print money; and the simple fact that a Star Wars movie was a box office bomb drove corporate executives bat**** crazy. The most obvious victim of this was Rise of Skywalker, the extensive rewrites were the result of studio panic and insisting the movie be written to specifically draw in both Force Awakens and Last Jedi fans, regardless of how incongruous the end result might be....

...but it seems like the risk aversion has proliferated far beyond that. Big production companies, with their big investment in their own streaming services hedged on COVID-year-theater-closure numbers, are cleaving close to formulae that've worked before...and as a result things have turned formulaic. Even in the realm of children's media, Disney has has over a dozen live-action remakes of their 2D properties planned; not exactly a sign of the risk-taking any creative endeavor entails...cutting $3 billion from their production budget isn't either, but it's not like those things aren't related.

I don't know whether it's inertia or serendipity they're betting on...perhaps both, all hoping to coast without rocking the boat until someone stumbles into the next big thing. But the thing with inertia is that friction is a thing, and if their only response to the next big hit (which is unlikely to come from any of them) is "new formula to try milking", they're eventually going to stall and break.

[Rater202]

So I think, after three attempts, that I got the proper amount of cinnamon for barbecue sauce and the answer is "more than you'd think."

Unfortunately, I forgot the cayenne pepper on my third try.

[Lord Raziere]

That's not what I meant, and changing people's behavior through threat of violence is not much better.

As Rater's GM, I can say its actually a bit frustrating to like have Rater's characters fight anyone, because he will never choose violence if there is any hope of doing otherwise and will always make a clear ultimatum that they can stop fighting or his character will destroy them, and even if they do fight his characters will always seek to take out the opponent as efficiently as possible. This actually is low key frustrating to someone like me who likes fights being dramatic and full of back and forths and tension because thats just not his concern and I just have to deal with that. like when given a DBZ character, part of the time it was him citing laws the bad guys are breaking or something as if they care, and all the times he did threaten violence it was a bluff and like never once actually roleplayed any of his characters going bad or acting on angry impulses anyone that wasn't like, obviously evil even though they tend to be more powerful than my characters so if his characters went crazy it would be an open question if my characters could actually beat them or not.

like if Rater hasn't roleplayed a paladin, he'd be very good at doing so because all his characters are unfailingly good people, if very critical about the world around them. I can only guess he hasn't because because something about the paladin code rubs him the wrong way. the few times he's tried to play villains, honestly not all that memorable, he actually needs work in that. he will give his heroes long speeches about people being morally incorrect and judge them like instantly, but his villains like, I don't remember at all because you'd think he'd be good at coming up with evil rants and villain motivations and such, but he actually isn't.

point is, I'm pretty sure if Rater was actually granted powers like that I'd really doubt him doing something bad with them because his first thoughts on like anything is ethical stuff. Like I'm pretty sure his version of superman if someone tried to taunt him would just call the dude stupid for doing so in some long-winded fashion then fly off to do all the things Superman would do with all of superman's restraint, he just wouldn't be nice and mannerly like Superman when talking to people.

[Rater202]

I have a hard time with villains.

It's hard to put myself in that sort of mindset. It's very easy for me to misjudge what is and is not appropriate in context and... Sometimes I end up making myself uncomfortable.

Like, my favorite Supervillains are just at completely far ends from each other: Apocalypse, an absurdly powerful ancient evil whose backstory is this whole ****ing saga told across the course of a few decades explaining both his rise to power and his transformation from a Bronze Age hero to a monster... And Carnage, who you know... Has no complex motivation whatsoever, he just likes killing people.

[TaiLiu]

The base conceit here is that watching the "lowest common denominator" media and just kinda gulging your brain on it makes you a brain-dead child. Feels a little reductive to me imo.

Oh. Yeah, I agree. Deadbeat dads certainly aren't known for watching kids' shows.

Hey everyone. Today I was watching the news about the Olympics banning transgender athletes from their sports and I was very upset about it. This is pure discrimination at its finest.

Wait, the Olympics banned trans people from competing? That's awful.