MitD XVIII: It's utterly unreasonable to expect us to have been paying any attention

[Tubercular Ox]

But what if MitD is the *other* Knee-Stealer?

Then that would be the right one.

[Metastachydium]

It comes from The Giant's comment on the subject:

How did I not know about this before?! Is it in the Index? I always wanted to know this!

[Ruck]

I can't help but think the "banal name for an eldritch abomination" might be a MitD clue.

I wonder if so many mystery monsters just puts people in the mood for mysterious monsters.

Probably that. I mean, if it might be a clue, what would it be pointing to?

[Tzardok]

Probably that. I mean, if it might be a clue, what would it be pointing to?

Certainly not to any of our FBS. Most of those have fantasy words for names, and those that aren't (Hunting Horror and Nightmare Beast) aren't exactly subtle about their horrificness.

[Tubercular Ox]

Certainly not to any of our FBS. Most of those have fantasy words for names, and those that aren't (Hunting Horror and Nightmare Beast) aren't exactly subtle about their horrificness.

Haunter of the Dark? It sounds much more mundane than it used to after seven books of Monster in the Dark. Also, Haunters of the Dark have one wing, which is objectively wrong. (Although I do have a theory that a Haunter of the Dark could fly in some sort of outrigger arrangement.)

And I'm sorry, I didn't mean to turn this into a setup, I was mostly interested in if Omomuro was going to come back with an idea.

[Precure]

Certainly not to any of our FBS. Most of those have fantasy words for names, and those that aren't (Hunting Horror and Nightmare Beast) aren't exactly subtle about their horrificness.

"Protean" is one though.

[hroþila]

"Protean" is one though.

Now I'm curious - how readily do people connect the name of the Protean with the actual adjective "protean"? Personally I'd never made that connection before and I assumed "Protean" was just a cool-sounding fantasy name. However, I suspect this might be in part due to the fact that I had no idea this word actually existed.

[Tzardok]

Well, I don't know wether I knew about the adjective beforehand, but I did knew about the Greek god Proteus which the adjective is derived from. So I when I saw the protean for the first time I probably thought it was a reference to him.

[Beni-Kujaku]

My first contact with the word "Protean" was as the Pokémon ability that allows you to change type, so I always associated the word with change. Then, when I started playing 3.5 and found out about the psychoactive skin of Proteus and the Proteus feat, both having to do with versatility and changing oneself, I more strongly linked the word and meaning. So yeah, when I read about the Hagunemnon, I immediately thought about something that could morph itself, and sure enough it was.

[Metastachydium]

Well, I don't know wether I knew about the adjective beforehand, but I did knew about the Greek god Proteus which the adjective is derived from. So I when I saw the protean for the first time I probably thought it was a reference to him.

Much the same here.

[Doug Lampert]

I propose that the MitD is a Magenta Poet with Cyan Polka-Dots.

That's just a Blue Poet with the "Magenta Creature with Cyan Polka-Dots" template, nothing original.

And an Itsy Bitsy Teenie Weenie Yellow Polkadot Bikini, the real reason the MitD hides under the umbrella isn't because of orders from X, it's because of embarasement about the Itsy Bitsy Teenie Weenie Yellow Polkadot Bikini.

[halfeye]

And an Itsy Bitsy Teenie Weenie Yellow Polkadot Bikini, the real reason the MitD hides under the umbrella isn't because of orders from X, it's because of embarasement about the Itsy Bitsy Teenie Weenie Yellow Polkadot Bikini.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itsy_B...olkadot_Bikini

That was a long time ago.

[Crusher]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itsy_B...olkadot_Bikini

That was a long time ago.

63 years is but a moment to an ent.

[Tubercular Ox]

63 years is but a moment to an ent.

It was used as a kid's song in the 80's. That moves it up a generation. Maybe only in some places.

[Doug Lampert]

63 years is but a moment to an ent.

But is 63 years a long enough moment for an Ent to sing the entirety of the Entish version of the lyrics of Itsy Bitsy Teenie Weenie Yellow Polkadot Bikini?

Or for that matter is 63 years long enough to just say, "The monster in the darkness is a blue poet with the Magenta Creature with Cyan Polkadots template that's wearing an Itsy Bitsy Teenie Weenie Yellow Polkadot Bikini."

Note that this answers the 63 year old question, the bikini is yellow, the polkadots are cyan; rather than the alternative where the bikini is some other color and the polkadots yellow.

[Throknor]

But is 63 years a long enough moment for an Ent to sing the entirety of the Entish version of the lyrics of Itsy Bitsy Teenie Weenie Yellow Polkadot Bikini?

I'm more concerned if it is long enough to get the picture of Ents in Itsy Bitsy Teenie Weenie Yellow Polkadot Bikinis out of one's head...

[mashlagoo1982]

Cleaning yesterday I found a book I didn't realize I possessed.

I think it was about demons... some Hell source book.

I found one monster that was interesting, but I don't remember it's name.

It was basically a gigantic war elephant.
It had earthquake and teleport abilities (only itself and 50lbs).

I presume that was found before and probably discarded.
If not, I can get the details and post them.

Gigantic demon war elephant ring any bells?
It probably also isn't hideous or outlandish enough to trigger the reactions at the circus.
Though having an elephant at a circus would make sense.

Edit: It could have been devil instead... I honestly don't remember which.

[Crusher]

Cleaning yesterday I found a book I didn't realize I possessed.

I think it was about demons... some Hell source book.

I found one monster that was interesting, but I don't remember it's name.

It was basically a gigantic war elephant.
It had earthquake and teleport abilities (only itself and 50lbs).

I presume that was found before and probably discarded.
If not, I can get the details and post them.

Gigantic demon war elephant ring any bells?
It probably also isn't hideous or outlandish enough to trigger the reactions at the circus.
Though having an elephant at a circus would make sense.

Edit: It could have been devil instead... I honestly don't remember which.

Was it a Mivilorn? I don't think they're actually fiendish, but they are mounts demons sometimes ride into battle. They have a 31 STR, 324 HP and can swallow creatures whole, but defenses overall aren't great, don't have teleport (not actually Tanari'ri), and low INT.

[mashlagoo1982]

Was it a Mivilorn? I don't think they're actually fiendish, but they are mounts demons sometimes ride into battle. They have a 31 STR, 324 HP and can swallow creatures whole, but defenses overall aren't great, don't have teleport (not actually Tanari'ri), and low INT.

I don't believe this is the creature.

My memory is vague, but I do feel confident it had earthquake which is specifically triggered by stomping its feet.

I think the source was called something like "The Book of Hell" or something similar.
I'll look it up this evening.

[b_jonas]

mashlagoo1982: All I found from a quick search is an old post that is asking if the elephant creature in #501 10th is a “Maelephant” from AD&D 2nd edition. That is apparently some fiendish creature. It has spell-like abilities but no teleport or earthquake as far as I can tell.

[Crusher]

I don't believe this is the creature.

My memory is vague, but I do feel confident it had earthquake which is specifically triggered by stomping its feet.

I think the source was called something like "The Book of Hell" or something similar.
I'll look it up this evening.

Hmm, interesting. Let me know what you find, if you don't mind.

This got me browsing through MM3 again (which I've looked through before, but its always fun to revisit). Other than being an Elemental that doesn't have to eat and not having an answer for the Escape scene, the Omnimental would be an interesting candidate. 31 STR, DR 10/-, 400+ HP. is formed by magically fusing 4 16HD elementals of the major elemental types together so it looks weird and could easily be confused about its past. When you defeat one, you're really defeating the binding structure so it pops back into being 4 different (unhappy, confused, probably hostile) elementals.

An Elder Odopi might also work, though it has a lot of the same strengths and weaknesses. 33 STR, DR10/good and magic, can swallow things whole, 400+ HP, looks like a gigantic rolling tumbleweed made out of arms (has a hard-to-see central body and the hand of each arm has a bright yellow eye on it) and specifically tries to Power Attack all the time. But 6 INT, 50' in diameter and weighs, um, 80 tons (Gargantuan) work against it. Technically it has no answer for the Escape Scene, BUT a regular Odopi has Dimension Door 3/day and they forgot to include the Spell-like Ability section for the Elder Odopi. So, you'd probably assume it just has the same abilities as a regular one, BUT you could fudge things and say "Well, its an Elder and the fluff says it has better abilities so maybe they meant to put in Teleport 3x/day as an upgrade from Dimension Door but forgot" /shrug.

An Ancient Nighttwist has, again, pretty much the same strengths and weaknesses of the other two. 45 STR, DR15/slashing which is useless but it has a flat-footed AC of 38 and 400+ HP. Its an unnatural and unsettling looking black leafless tree with tentacle-like branches that radiates sorrow and despair. However, no Escape answer and is really slow (10' move speed) because it is, in fact, a tree (Plant-type, which is a problem). 12 INT and a bunch of magic abilities, but sings a "Despair Song" every night that totally would have wiped out all the goblins in Xykons camp.

[Metastachydium]

Cleaning yesterday I found a book I didn't realize I possessed.

I think it was about demons... some Hell source book.

I found one monster that was interesting, but I don't remember it's name.

It was basically a gigantic war elephant.
It had earthquake and teleport abilities (only itself and 50lbs).

I presume that was found before and probably discarded.
If not, I can get the details and post them.

Gigantic demon war elephant ring any bells?
It probably also isn't hideous or outlandish enough to trigger the reactions at the circus.
Though having an elephant at a circus would make sense.

Edit: It could have been devil instead... I honestly don't remember which.

I don't believe this is the creature.

My memory is vague, but I do feel confident it had earthquake which is specifically triggered by stomping its feet.

I think the source was called something like "The Book of Hell" or something similar.
I'll look it up this evening.

Alright.

1. Maelephants were updated for 3.x in the Fiend Folio; they don't have teleportation or earthquake effects, however. What they do have is DR 20/magic, fast healing 2 and a Defensive Stance ability that gives them extra AC and CON (but that's hardly enough to explain much about the Monster) and a funny breath weapon that makes people (wait for it!)… Forget stuff. STR 22; or 30 advanced to HUge; or 32 in Defensive Stance. Not a very good candidate.

2. Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss, the demon book, has the Goristro. It's bull-like, rather than elephantine, has STR 34 when Huge, is a demon, has Awesome Blow, extra strong slam attacks and Stamp, an actual ability creating an Earthquake effect, as per the spell, when it stomps the ground. It has poor defenses and can't teleport.

3. If you really want Evil elephants, there's the Thaskor from Miniatures Handbook, a splat with Fighter Guy dueling two Tieflings on its cover for a fiendish theme; it's a Shadow Outsider, with DR 5/– resistences, a stunning Trumpeting Blast and STR 39 if advanced to Huge. It's a terrible MitD candidate, overall.

[Doug Lampert]

2. Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss, the demon book, has the Goristro. It's bull-like, rather than elephantine, has STR 34 when Huge, is a demon, has Awesome Blow, extra strong slam attacks and Stamp, an actual ability creating an Earthquake effect, as per the spell, when it stomps the ground. It has poor defenses and can't teleport.

Concievably, I'd buy the Goristro. Teleport is very common for powerful fiends in 3.x, the Goristro first appeared in D&D lore in 1984, Rich decided on the MitD and its basic powers and role in the story in 2004, and the Fiendish Codex dates to 2006; so if it is a Goristro it may well be an updated version made by Rich when he decided to use one (hence it being a fine point who made it up, even updated I'd still say that Gygax did), and if I were updating a powerful fiend early in 3.5, I'd have given it teleport without error (possibly limited to self + 50 lb).

Also, Rich has given an imp teleport and a succubus plane shift. Neither is on the standard list, but both could be hints that fiends in OotS world can have spell-like powers beyond what is in the book. Similarly, he's definitely ignored the "touch everyone" and probably ignored the "how much can I take with me" of teleport on screen. This could be a hint that the touch and 50 lb limits on an outsider might be ignored in OotS land.

I don't think it's likely, but I do think it could work. The big problem for me is, fiend, does it even have a father, and how likely is it to be non-malicious.

[GreyTraveller]

Concievably, I'd buy the Goristro. Teleport is very common for powerful fiends in 3.x, the Goristro first appeared in D&D lore in 1984, Rich decided on the MitD and its basic powers and role in the story in 2004, and the Fiendish Codex dates to 2006; so if it is a Goristro it may well be an updated version made by Rich when he decided to use one (hence it being a fine point who made it up, even updated I'd still say that Gygax did), and if I were updating a powerful fiend early in 3.5, I'd have given it teleport without error (possibly limited to self + 50 lb).

I went and tracked down the listing for the Goristro in Dragon Magazine 91, which appears to be the earliest detailed description (from 1984). It actually lists teleport without error (once per day) as a power. It can also levitate or spider climb (to mark off doors on the cliff), and can create gloom (half strength darkness), although that's in a 60 foot radius. It doesn't mention earthquake specifically, but does give it a stamping attack, and also the ability to do siege damage to constructions and large objects. And the description says they are "vaguely reminiscent of giant bears, although their shoulders are broader, their visages appearing to be a nightmarish cross between bison and human, and their hands and feet disproportionately large, splayed, and humanlike". It also describes them as especially stupid, and their size is 21 to 24 feet tall. Interestingly, the article (written by Gygax) mentions that they are mentioned in MM2, but then not referenced are described anywhere. So he wrote the article to give a creature description for this creature that had somehow gone missing (the subtitle of the article is "Big, dumb demon brought out of hiding"). All in all, not a terrible fit.

[Doug Lampert]

I went and tracked down the listing for the Goristro in Dragon Magazine 91, which appears to be the earliest detailed description (from 1984). It actually lists teleport without error (once per day) as a power. It can also levitate or spider climb (to mark off doors on the cliff), and can create gloom (half strength darkness), although that's in a 60 foot radius. It doesn't mention earthquake specifically, but does give it a stamping attack, and also the ability to do siege damage to constructions and large objects. And the description says they are "vaguely reminiscent of giant bears, although their shoulders are broader, their visages appearing to be a nightmarish cross between bison and human, and their hands and feet disproportionately large, splayed, and humanlike". It also describes them as especially stupid, and their size is 21 to 24 feet tall. Interestingly, the article (written by Gygax) mentions that they are mentioned in MM2, but then not referenced are described anywhere. So he wrote the article to give a creature description for this creature that had somehow gone missing (the subtitle of the article is "Big, dumb demon brought out of hiding"). All in all, not a terrible fit.

I'd say that the first edition Goristro may be worth listing as a fits big scenes monster. There are some negatives (stupid, too big, and fiend), but I'm not sure any of that is worse than stuff we've already accepted as being about as good a match as anything.

It's not an original guess: Showed up way back, but most of the discussion seems to center on 3.x versions, and the older versions seem worth a separate look given that the 3.5 version comes after the decision on the MitD, and the prior versions came before.
First reference I can find to MitD and Goristro:
https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...tD#post2988174

It's also on thread 3 of the formal MitD threads, and was rejected because the 3.0 Manual of the Planes version doesn't have anything close to the right power set.

Does anyone have second edition stats for them?

[Crusher]

I'd say that the first edition Goristro may be worth listing as a fits big scenes monster. There are some negatives (stupid, too big, and fiend), but I'm not sure any of that is worse than stuff we've already accepted as being about as good a match as anything.

It's not an original guess: Showed up way back, but most of the discussion seems to center on 3.x versions, and the older versions seem worth a separate look given that the 3.5 version comes after the decision on the MitD, and the prior versions came before.
First reference I can find to MitD and Goristro:
https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...tD#post2988174

It's also on thread 3 of the formal MitD threads, and was rejected because the 3.0 Manual of the Planes version doesn't have anything close to the right power set.

Does anyone have second edition stats for them?

Oh, no, the 3.0 version of the Goristro (well, "a" 3.0 version, there might be more than one) is quite a strong candidate. I put together some notes on it a while back, here: https://forums.giantitp.com/showsing...postcount=1023

Teleport w/o Error once/day is pretty spectacular. IIRC, its issues were not looking weird enough and underwhelming defenses. I don't think I've seen a 2e or the Dragon version, though.

[GreyTraveller]

Oh, no, the 3.0 version of the Goristro (well, "a" 3.0 version, there might be more than one) is quite a strong candidate. I put together some notes on it a while back, here: https://forums.giantitp.com/showsing...postcount=1023

Teleport w/o Error once/day is pretty spectacular. IIRC, its issues were not looking weird enough and underwhelming defenses. I don't think I've seen a 2e or the Dragon version, though.

This appears to be a 2e version. Most of the text matches the Dragon article, although it lacks the crucial teleport (unless that was just a standard tanar'ri ability in 2e; I can't recall). Normally, I wouldn't think of them as weird enough looking, but the text there specifically describes it as a "nightmarish cross between bison and human", so maybe. Interesting that the 2e text specifically mentions breeding and young, including taking them away from their parents to be raised.

[mashlagoo1982]

I was looking at Titanic Stalker in Book of Hell pg 58. From what I can tell it doesn't have an explanation for Escape.

[b_jonas]

and probably ignored the "how much can I take with me" of teleport on screen

Where did he ignore that? It was a plot point in #630 5th and #634 10th that Qarr can only teleport self plus 50 pounds.

[Kish]

Tsukiko would have to be level 18 as a wizard, which would make her well into epic as a mystic theurge, to be able to teleport the group of wights she does if Rich is not ignoring the number restrictions on Teleport.

(And also, he's quite visibly ignoring the "the caster has to be touching all of them" requirement.)