Kraagor's Final Dungeon - theories

[ZhonLord]

Alright folks, let's hear your thoughts. What monster(s) and/or other defenses will be in the final dungeon of Kraagor's tomb? My first thoughts on possible options are:

A horde of powerful golems and/or undead, who can sit for eternity until their time to fight arrives.

Something ludicrous, like an Elder Floomph who gets stronger every time someone lands on its kin.


Let's hear your ideas! After all, this comic has action and comedy alike. The silly options are possible too, not just the serious. What would Serini Toormuck put as the ultimate last guardian of the Tomb?

[Metastachydium]

Maybe it's like backstage (or that tiresome joke about the 2e dungeon where everything's a mimic or worse), except on steroids. Say, the entrance is an 54 HD tunnel terror^FF, the ceiling of the next room consists of nothing but 30 HD balhannoths^MM4 (surprise antimagic grappling!) and the floor is a pool of water that's really just a group of max-HD aballins^MoF with a stupid amount of stupid templates.

[ZhonLord]

...and the floor is a pool of water that's really just a group of max-HD aballins^MoF with a stupid amount of stupid templates.

Maybe make them acid proof and put them in a "pool" of gelatinous cubes to top it off!

[gbaji]

Eh. It'll probably just be a room. With a gate in it.

They've run the gauntlet to get there. They've already fought through a ton of very tough monsters (high enough level to give an epic lich experience). This is the treasure room at the end. I mean, Kraagor was a barbarian, so once you fight through all the mighty monsters, you get your prize, right!?

Oh wait! Serini actually made this. So yeah. I'd expect not so much more high level monsters (cause whoever gets there has shown they can handle that already), but maybe more tricks and traps in here, if there is anything to overcome.

[ZhonLord]

Oh wait! Serini actually made this. So yeah. I'd expect not so much more high level monsters (cause whoever gets there has shown they can handle that already), but maybe more tricks and traps in here, if there is anything to overcome.

Perhaps both. Strong guardians with tricksy little hobbitz traps to supplement them.

This is why I started the theorycrafting. Serini is a high level rogue honoring a barbarian. You can get some fascinating combinations from that.

[Fyraltari]

Mitd's relatives.

[Precure]

Kraagor's statue, magically animated to protect the dungeon below its feet.

[Metastachydium]

Kraagor's statue, magically animated to protect the dungeon below its feet.

[Drops a Rod from God on your flumph.]

[Precure]

[Drops a Rod from God on your flumph.]

[Strangling your flower with tentacles.]

[Edreyn]

There will only be the Gate. Whoever reaches the Gate, he already deserves this.

[brian 333]

The first gold dragon ever created in the Stickverse, whose dreams have become living demiplanes. Waking her will make her really mad.

[ZhonLord]

There will only be the Gate. Whoever reaches the Gate, he already deserves this.

If it were Kraagor designing the dungeon, I'd agree. But Serini is the one who actually made it, and she's obsessed with the safety and security of this Gate. I can't imagine her leaving the final dungeon empty and undefended.

[Roland Itiative]

Since the "shell game" of the doors is actually a gauntlet, and the challenges behind each individual door seem to be just monsters, I would assume the final dungeon to focus on Serini's class' specialty and be a dungeon full of deadly traps.

You already went through Kragoor's barbarian-inspired gauntlet of combat disguised as a shell game, now it's time to go through Serini's rogue-inspired challenge. It might feel a bit too close to Girard's Gate thematically, but we just so happened to have skipped most of the traps in that one, so the concept is still not fully spent.

It's almost certainly not just a room with the Gate and no extra defenses, or else Serini would probably not have said it's a final dungeon.

[paladinofshojo]

Maybe the MitD’s dad?

[Adun]

Mitd's relatives.

This is also my theory, or at least someone of its race

[Wintermoot]

Kraagor's zombie corpse

[Edreyn]

Or maybe inside there is... another set of doors that all must be checked?

[ZhonLord]

Or maybe inside there is... another set of doors that all must be checked?

As hilarious as that would be, Rich already pulled that level of Gotcha at Girard's Gate, with the Mario bit. Besides, Serini can only maintain so many dungeons even with Sunny's help. She's a halfling, she needs sleep.

Kraagor's zombie corpse

We do have proof that the Snarl can leave bodies behind after it destroys a soul, so it's possible, but I somehow doubt that turning a beloved friend's body into a negative energy being who's a mockery of all one held dear, fits Serini's style. I'd call it unlikely.

[Tzardok]

Especially as they never recovered Kraagor's corpse; it's still over within the rift.

[littlebum2002]

We do have proof that the Snarl can leave bodies behind after it destroys a soul, so it's possible, but I somehow doubt that turning a beloved friend's body into a negative energy being who's a mockery of all one held dear, fits Serini's style. I'd call it unlikely.

Yeah, that's a good point. Clearly it's Kraagor's body turned into a golem instead.

[Precure]

Kraagor's statue is Kraagor himself, waiting to be awakened when the right time comes.

[Lumix19]

Alright folks, let's hear your thoughts. What monster(s) and/or other defenses will be in the final dungeon of Kraagor's tomb? My first thoughts on possible options are:

A horde of powerful golems and/or undead, who can sit for eternity until their time to fight arrives.

Something ludicrous, like an Elder Floomph who gets stronger every time someone lands on its kin.


Let's hear your ideas! After all, this comic has action and comedy alike. The silly options are possible too, not just the serious. What would Serini Toormuck put as the ultimate last guardian of the Tomb?

I like the golem idea. Maybe Serini has been buying high-end golems from Grubwiggler for years and now has a veritable army.

Could the final dungeon be a Living Vault? I had a look at the SRD and I can't quite imagine what it even looks like. Key thing though is that it probably shouldn't be able to Plane Shift with the Gate since the Gate is supposed to be immovable.

[Metastachydium]

Especially as they never recovered Kraagor's corpse; it's still over within the rift.

I have a vague recollection of someone pointing out the Tomb is not actually a tomb, but I can't quite find where it is established that Kraagor's body was lost.

Kraagor's zombie corpse

As hilarious as that would be, Rich already pulled that level of Gotcha at Girard's Gate, with the Mario bit.

We do have proof that the Snarl can leave bodies behind after it destroys a soul, so it's possible, but I somehow doubt that turning a beloved friend's body into a negative energy being who's a mockery of all one held dear, fits Serini's style. I'd call it unlikely.

Yeah, that's a good point. Clearly it's Kraagor's body turned into a golem instead.

All has become clear in a single blinding flash of insight tearing through the thick drapery of shadows that keep the future forever hidden from eyes not yet prepared to behold it: Kraagor can't be a zombie, because that would be bad; but nor can he be a flesh golem (since that takes up to six bodies and there is no indication that Baron Pineapple's was preserved for this purpose). That leaves us with only ONE possibility: a 20+ HD Crypt Warden, a skeleton animated by positive energy spamming Holy Smites left and right! But how could that be? We already had Deathless Evil-smiters, you might protest. And indeed: we had those, and a Mario gotcha as well. This, however is the KEY to the solution itself: those that theorized Serini's defenses will combine those found at all the other gates were RIGHT all along! Kraagor's Gate is hidden within a false decoy, protected by Kraagor's soulless skeleton turned into a Crypt Warden! The mocking text on the false decoy, however is a protective magical rune sigil trap disguised by an illusion! Interacting with the sigil Greenbound Summons two ROCs that join Kraagor's remain in the fight against intruders!

This is the ONLY thing that makes sense!

[ZhonLord]

Interacting with the sigil Greenbound Summons two ROCs that join Kraagor's remain in the fight against intruders!

This is the ONLY thing that makes sense!

Overall a clever and fascinating idea for how to cheese up a 3.5 powerhouse challenge, except for this bit right here. If the dungeon is underground, a roc won't have room to fly unless it's a pocket dimension - which the Gate itself rules out. And two rocs would make it even more cramped.

[Tzardok]

Anybody who has been pressed against a wall by a few tons of bird can't spellcast or swing a weapon. Win by filling all available space with bird.

[Metastachydium]

Overall a clever and fascinating idea for how to cheese up a 3.5 powerhouse challenge, except for this bit right here. If the dungeon is underground, a roc won't have room to fly unless it's a pocket dimension - which the Gate itself rules out. And two rocs would make it even more cramped.

What if it's a really big cave? Also,

[a]nybody who has been pressed against a wall by a few tons of bird can't spellcast or swing a weapon. Win by filling all available space with bird.

At any rate, I like birds. And fellow plants. And birds who are also plants. If you remain unconvinced, feel free to substitute any OP Animal type animal available from the SNA lists.

[Crusher]

Anybody who has been pressed against a wall by a few tons of bird can't spellcast or swing a weapon. Win by filling all available space with bird.

I'm reminded of the super power of Puppy Girl from Super Hero tropes on useless superpowers. Her power was summoning puppies, which is obviously useless. Except that she could summon *any* number of puppies *anywhere* she wanted.

So when the bad guy arrives and laughs at her, she probably kills him by summoning puppies directly inside his body and then buries him under a gigantic pile of millions of puppies. Filling an entire room with puppies, thus trapping people, would be a piece of cake.