Yu-Gi-Oh! ZeXal!

[Batcathat]

And then their treatment of Allando/flat today is just. I thought it was weird earlier but it didn't click that it was wolfy-weird and in particular wolf-distancing-from-their-partner-Allando weird. It's just... "I think Allando/flat are w/w but also I want to kill flat first" and having that even while voting for Allando so they always had that route off the wagon.

I still don't get what's so weird about my stance. I find both of them suspicious, but I think flat flipping might tell us more about Allando than vice versa (since if Allando flips wolf, flat is either another wolf trying to save his buddy or a townie who picked poorly, but if flat flips wolf, Allando is almost certainly one as well or flat set himself up to take the heat for a mislynch for no discernible reason).

[Snowblaze]

I still don't get what's so weird about my stance. I find both of them suspicious, but I think flat flipping might tell us more about Allando than vice versa (since if Allando flips wolf, flat is either another wolf trying to save his buddy or a townie who picked poorly, but if flat flips wolf, Allando is almost certainly one as well or flat set himself up to take the heat for a mislynch for no discernible reason).

"If flat is a wolf, then Allando is a wolf"

"If Allando is town, then flat is town"

Those statements are logically equivalent. (Actually technically they're not in a game which might have a neutral. But ignore that.)

If Allando flips town then we know we probably shouldn't kill flat, and if Allando flips wolf then we don't know about flat but we killed a wolf, which is good.

If flat flips wolf, great, we killed a wolf and Allando is probably also one. If flat flips town... then what? That tells us nothing about Allando's alignment, and is something we could have prevented by killing Allando first.

Does that make any more sense? I don't really see how else to explain it, so sorry if it doesn't.

[flat_footed]

I still don't get what's so weird about my stance. I find both of them suspicious, but I think flat flipping might tell us more about Allando than vice versa (since if Allando flips wolf, flat is either another wolf trying to save his buddy or a townie who picked poorly, but if flat flips wolf, Allando is almost certainly one as well or flat set himself up to take the heat for a mislynch for no discernible reason).

Saving Allando doesn't make sense as wolf! Flat. Better to let one possibly survive the tie rules than risk suspicion on us both

I can be a team player, but I'm not really the "dove in front of my buddy" kind of teammate if I can keep going under the radar.

Do I have to vote Allando here? No idea what the vote count is but it's got to be close.

[Batcathat]

Does that make any more sense? I don't really see how else to explain it, so sorry if it doesn't.

Hmm. Yeah, I think I see what you're saying and you might have a point. I still think that flat flipping wolf is the scenario that ends with the most reliable information going forward, but I suppose Allando flipping does leave us with something regardless of his alignment.

Saving Allando doesn't make sense as wolf! Flat. Better to let one possibly survive the tie rules than risk suspicion on us both

I can be a team player, but I'm not really the "dove in front of my buddy" kind of teammate if I can keep going under the radar.

Do I have to vote Allando here? No idea what the vote count is but it's got to be close.

Yeah, if my count is correct it is indeed quite close (which worries me regardless of who the wolves are).

• Allando: 2 (Illven Snowblaze)
• flat_footed: 3 (Allando Batcathat JeenLeen)
• Let’sGetKraken: 2 (Bladescape flat_footed)
• Persolus: 1 (Let’sGetKraken)

[flat_footed]

Hmm. Yeah, I think I see what you're saying and you might have a point. I still think that flat flipping wolf is the scenario that ends with the most reliable information going forward, but I suppose Allando flipping does leave us with something regardless of his alignment.



Yeah, if my count is correct it is indeed quite close (which worries me regardless of who the wolves are).

• Allando: 2 (Illven Snowblaze)
• flat_footed: 3 (Allando Batcathat JeenLeen)
• Let’sGetKraken: 2 (Bladescape flat_footed)
• Persolus: 1 (Let’sGetKraken)

Flat's not going to flip wolf. Allando.

[Batcathat]

Flat's not going to flip wolf. Allando.

I don't know about that, talking about yourself in the third person is a clear sign of villainy.

[Let'sGetKraken]

Alright, I'm sorry Allando. I don't think this is necessarily us hitting a wolf here but this does give us some information and I would rather see this happen than flat or I voted out.

[flat_footed]

I don't know about that, talking about yourself in the third person is a clear sign of villainy.

I'd argue the point, but you more than most I'll let that slide.

[AvatarVecna]

Spoiler

Show

Hoo boy, it's been a while. I guess I'll throw a Vote: Book Wombat out there cause why not. Is there any new meta I should be aware of that changed since I last played?

And are we worried about the Neutral being in the game at all? Is 14 roles too small for a 3P?

It's not a new meta, but OMGUS votes are generally NAGL.

14 is not too small a game for neutrals. As for worried...eh. It might exist. If it exists, it might do something. But there's nothing concrete to worry about, when basically the entire power is redacted, so may as well not spend our time worrying about it.

On that note, I'm also eyeing the Caedorus "wagon". Which is basically two random votes plus this post from BatCatHat:



I'm not convinced that a Wolf would see someone else give a hint and then decide to draw attention to themselves and claim the same thing. Maybe I just don't know Caedorus and they would do that but it feels like a weird reason to make someone the lead wagon BatCatHat

Townpoints for Cao, scumpoints for BCH.

Appreciate the validation, but I think this is just normal hedginess from BatCatHat. Having played with him before (hell, even Snow referenced it) he is famously hedge turn 1. This does not seem suspicious.

Caedorus is giving me gut pings for stating facts about the game, which is a slightly wolfy thing to do to appear more active. Slight wolflean there, but staying on Snow.

BCH/Kraken w/w? Should consider if one flips scum.

--read list--

Nodding along. Townie points.

Just enough time for a quick update but AV/Jeen have jumped up in my reads to join Kracken/Snow as "trust enough to not worry about until we get a better feel for everyone else".

Blade's claim that Marin is in the game is fine but I'll agree with someone (AV I think?) that it's weird that blade would admit to knowledge that it was a void? Seems to give wolves more info than town.

That kind of 'mistake' echoes with behavior I've seen from blade in previous games where blade turned out scum. It's making me real nervous.

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Alright, I'm sorry Allando. I don't think this is necessarily us hitting a wolf here but this does give us some information and I would rather see this happen than flat or I voted out.

Biting back my instinctive urge to vote you for this post cuz I can actually feel myself justifying it regardless of how Allando flips, and I hate when people do that.

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GTH my three-person team would be JL/Kraken/blade, but I'm hoping we have just two scum cuz cultist is always a huge balance issue, and also that team sounds like a nightmare to deal with tbh

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Welp. Note to self: defend sufficiently confident townleans harder if you don't want to have to keep complaining about their getting lynched D1.

Also I presume the soft was the poem, since Byron is also a poet. I like that.

More thoughts probably tomorrow when I will actually have time for this game.

Probably a silly question but I'm actually having trouble finding anything indicating Byron is a poet? I was trying to see if it would be easy to think the hint is "poetry" and then from there deduce that Cae was softing Byron, and instead I'm just finding like zero references to it? Wikipedia, Yugioh.fandom, and TVTropes don't mention anything about it.

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I must admit you're making me curious about what the claim is (but claiming anything this early seems weird, so no pressure). While I'm not the alpha or any other flavour of wolf (but of course I would say that), falsely accusing me seems a little short-sighted as a wolf play. I also don't think you'd reveal your information this early if you honestly thought I was a wolf, so I'm not sure what that leaves.

You actually claiming something completely different that's too subtle for me to pick up on? Yeah, that seems like the most likely option.

This feels a little weird. My post is literally the first one in the game, I have no information except what my starting role provides me, and none of the roles really start with information about other people except lovers, wolves, and maybe the neutral. BCH defaults to assuming that whatever I'm hinting at with my post is about them being a wolf in some fashion, which seems like a very odd assumption since that's information I could literally only have if we were both wolves...and if we're both wolves, this is still a weird reaction, just for different reasons. If I were to read way too deep into the post, it feels like a wolf mildly panicking at getting caught seemingly immediately and trying to fish for info without looking like they're fishing. That read feels like a stretch to me, but the alternative is that town!BCH thinks I was a wolf pretending to out BCH as my wolfbuddy for...some reason?

[Batcathat]

Probably a silly question but I'm actually having trouble finding anything indicating Byron is a poet? I was trying to see if it would be easy to think the hint is "poetry" and then from there deduce that Cae was softing Byron, and instead I'm just finding like zero references to it? Wikipedia, Yugioh.fandom, and TVTropes don't mention anything about it.

Unless I'm mistaken, the idea was that it was a reference to the poet Lord Byron.

Anyhow, it seems unlikely that I'll get enough support on lynching flat (and Snow might have a point), so Allando it is.

[Snowblaze]

Present, possibly until EOD but I reserve the right to go to sleep if it's a long time.

I did in fact mean the real-world poet Lord Byron (Ada Lovelace's dad, "mad, bad and dangerous to know". I have a habit of remembering random facts.)

All these Allando votes are making me paranoid but also I don't know where I'd go instead. Not flat because of the whole "Allando town implies flat town" thing. Not BCH because my entire reason for suspecting them is based on their being w/w with Allando.

...Kraken? I don't know. My Kraken read has progressed no further than last night, which is to say maybe he's a wolf but also it just doesn't feel right and I can't understand why. Chalking that one up to "lol Snowblaze" regardless of his alignment atp.

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It's quiet. Too quiet.

Still paranoid. Still don't have better ideas.

Anyone around? Do people think Allando is going to flip wolf? Does anyone have reasons not to townread Allando?

[Allando]

I hope this explains some of the sus things I've been doing.

Kite – the Light: Your father, Doctor Faker, made a pact with the Barians that put yourself and your brother at risk and you’ve been paying for it your whole life. This war is personal for you.
Galaxy-Eyes Photon Dragon:
On your Main Phase 2: Target 1 Player. Starting in the next Standby Phase, if you ever vote for that Player, they cannot activate any abilit(ies) on the next Main Phase 2. A maximum of 3 Player(s) can have this effect at once.

I targeted Flat last night, because I'm pretty sure they're a wolf, specifically I'm hoping they're the alfa, since their voting is sus and that's what I expected of the alfa this game. So yes, I am slightly tunneling flat atm. I'm just hoping it's useful.
Also, Snow, kindly stop preflipping me. I have no time to quote your massive wallpost bc eop could be anytime now, but you're almost assuming I'm a wolf and then considering the unlikely scenario I'm town.

[Let'sGetKraken]

Pivoting to... ****, I don't know. Flat_footed. Allando's claim changes things. Could still be a wolf with knowledge of roles in play, but unless we get a counterclaim I am comfortable lynching flat instead.

[Snowblaze]

I hope this explains some of the sus things I've been doing.

Kite – the Light: Your father, Doctor Faker, made a pact with the Barians that put yourself and your brother at risk and you’ve been paying for it your whole life. This war is personal for you.
Galaxy-Eyes Photon Dragon:
On your Main Phase 2: Target 1 Player. Starting in the next Standby Phase, if you ever vote for that Player, they cannot activate any abilit(ies) on the next Main Phase 2. A maximum of 3 Player(s) can have this effect at once.

I targeted Flat last night, because I'm pretty sure they're a wolf, specifically I'm hoping they're the alfa, since their voting is sus and that's what I expected of the alfa this game. So yes, I am slightly tunneling flat atm. I'm just hoping it's useful.
Also, Snow, kindly stop preflipping me. I have no time to quote your massive wallpost bc eop could be anytime now, but you're almost assuming I'm a wolf and then considering the unlikely scenario I'm town.

Okay.

Will skim through your ISO to figure out if that makes sense.

I don't think I've been preflipping you, sorry if it's come across in that way and even more so if you're town.

Who are the wolves?

[flat_footed]

I am kite, allando is lying.

[Let'sGetKraken]

Okay.

Will skim through your ISO to figure out if that makes sense.

I don't think I've been preflipping you, sorry if it's come across in that way and even more so if you're town.

Who are the wolves?

Snow, I don"t think we have time for this. Either change your vote or we condemn Allando and hope he is a wolf with knowledge of roles not in play.

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Oh ****! Okay. Back to Allando.

[flat_footed]

Snow, I don"t think we have time for this. Either change your vote or we condemn Allando and hope he is a wolf with knowledge of roles not in play.

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Oh ****! Okay. Back to Allando.

Yeah, Allando really picked the wrong role to fake.

[Snowblaze]

tears up post I was constructing

Okay. Yeah. Guess we're definitely killing Allando then.

flat, who did you target last night?

[flat_footed]

tears up post I was constructing

Okay. Yeah. Guess we're definitely killing Allando then.

flat, who did you target last night?

Kraken, hence my willingness to vote them earlier.

[Batcathat]

Hmm. Regardless of my thoughts on flat/Allando in general, I feel like I trust the counter-claim more. If flat's lying, it'll be discovered as soon as Allando flips, so taking that chance (at least before seeing more people react to the claim) seems unnecessary. Trading one wolf for one townie is usually bad math for the wolves.

[flat_footed]

In a perfect world, I'd be able to swap to vote for them again, but a visible void isn't as useful.

[Snowblaze]

There exist hypothetical worlds where flat is a wolf and thinks votes are going to flip to him because of the claim so is trying to buy himself an extra day.

I don't think those are particularly plausible. Wolf!flat/town!Allando worlds were unlikely anyway.

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Going to sleep, hopefully my tinfoil worlds cease to exist and we get that wolf flip.

[Batcathat]

I suppose this means that if Allando flips wolf, the Devil isn't in play, at least.

[Illven]

..... Thought occurs. I'm not sure how likely I think it actually is.

But if the wolves are Allando and Flat. Could this be a sacrifice play for Flat to get towncred.

As in. The devil knows that Kite isn't an actual role. Therefore Allando fake claims Kite, then Flat also fake claims Kite.

[Batcathat]

..... Thought occurs. I'm not sure how likely I think it actually is.

But if the wolves are Allando and Flat. Could this be a sacrifice play for Flat to get towncred.

As in. The devil knows that Kite isn't an actual role. Therefore Allando fake claims Kite, then Flat also fake claims Kite.

I kinda like it, since it would mean I wasn't wrong about flat. Though it's still kind of a risky lie, since Kraken could presumably test it by using his power.

[flat_footed]

..... Thought occurs. I'm not sure how likely I think it actually is.

But if the wolves are Allando and Flat. Could this be a sacrifice play for Flat to get towncred.

As in. The devil knows that Kite isn't an actual role. Therefore Allando fake claims Kite, then Flat also fake claims Kite.

There is no universe where wolf! flat risks outting himself day 1 to make a last vote to save his wolf buddy.

[AvatarVecna]

I kinda like it, since it would mean I wasn't wrong about flat. Though it's still kind of a risky lie, since Kraken could presumably test it by using his power.

And since wolves don't generally have the ability to kill in this game, we won't end up spending each day going "oh no the only person who could've confirmed flat was telling the truth tragically passed away guess we have to wait until tomorrow for someone else to try and use their power".

Also, default is always trust the counterclaim. Sorry Allando

[Illven]

There is no universe where wolf! flat risks outting himself day 1 to make a last vote to save his wolf buddy.

To save the cult leader perhaps?

[AvatarVecna]

To save the cult leader perhaps?

Assuming they're even in the game, and there's no guarantee that they are IIRC

[bladescape]

Allando

Hi I'm back to where I was before I meme

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Also scaring AV is fun

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The secret info might be that I'm sick