Unearthed Arcana - PH Playtest 5 - One D&D

[Sparky McDibben]

I'm sorry, but this still doesn't make sorcerers and wizards peers, let alone equals. Wizards look busted as hell with Modify / Create Spell. Sorcerers got Twinned Spell nerfed HARD. And Sorcerers still don't get anything like Arcane Recovery, or ritual casting. That irritates me, because I LOVE wizards and I want to love sorcerers. But this? This ain't it, chief.

[Boverk]

For warlocks it makes difference because as cantrips they can get access to all 3 pacts. You choose one as a pact boom and get the cantrip for free, but you can choose 2 other cantrips from your list, unless of course you argue that these cantrips are not in the arcane list so you can't choose then. Which is also fine because if that's the intent you cut access to it from feats like magic initiate.
Another point is if another subclass give you access to that ability is just easier to say "you get the "modify spell" spell and can add to your list"

Yeah, I think since they're not arcane cantrips, its not legal to pick those.

[Marcloure]

I'm sorry, but this still doesn't make sorcerers and wizards peers, let alone equals. Wizards look busted as hell with Modify / Create Spell. Sorcerers got Twinned Spell nerfed HARD. And Sorcerers still don't get anything like Arcane Recovery, or ritual casting. That irritates me, because I LOVE wizards and I want to love sorcerers. But this? This ain't it, chief.

Sorcerers gain more spells known per level now, and also some additional Sorcerer specific spells. But yes, the Wizard's Create Spell is super busted; it can make any utility spell a ritual spell, and only prepare combat spells now. We circled back to 4e.

[HX2GPX]

Is no one going to address the sorcerer's new 18th lvl ability!!!

They essentially get a the ability to cast any spell of any lvl below 9 once a day, and can also use the other, weirder part of Wish an infinite amount of times. This seems like unnecessary amounts of worry for the DM, as now an 18th lvl caster can cast a wish every day with no chance of losing it. This seems rather OP.

[GooeyChewie]

For warlocks it makes difference because as cantrips they can get access to all 3 pacts. You choose one as a pact boom and get the cantrip for free, but you can choose 2 other cantrips from your list, unless of course you argue that these cantrips are not in the arcane list so you can't choose then. Which is also fine because if that's the intent you cut access to it from feats like magic initiate.
Another point is if another subclass give you access to that ability is just easier to say "you get the "modify spell" spell and can add to your list"

The Warlock cantrips aren't on the Arcane spell list, so you cannot choose them outside of the Pact Boon feature. The fact that they aren't on the Arcane list does prevent Magic Initiate from choosing them, but making them class features rather than spells would also accomplish that goal.

I suppose it does leave open the possibility of another class/subclass granting the spell specifically. But making these features into spells seems like a solution in search of a problem.

[Sparky McDibben]

But making these features into spells seems like a solution in search of a problem.

I think you just identified the problem with this whole UA.

[Oramac]

All right, I finally finished reading the entire 50 stinkin pages. lol.

I guess I'm the oddball here, as I actually quite like nearly everything in this one. Just some quick notes:

Mastery: I'm of two minds here. On the one hand, it brings much needed variety and versatility to weapons specifically and martials in general. OTOH, it promotes the Golf-Bag-of-Weapons thing, and I foresee it either requiring a lot of micro management or being a set-it-and-forget-it mechanic, depending on the player.

Spellcasting: They removed the stupid ass "Prepare spells equal to your spell slots" wording!! This is fantastic!!

Barbarian: Damn near perfect, imo. I'd prefer to see Brutal Critical earlier, but I can live with it at 11th level. And Frenzy is actually useful now.

Fighter: Also pretty good. Not as good as the Barbarian, but good. The Champion is supposed to be dead simple, and it is. Call it boring if you want, but it hits the mark.

Sorcerer: Other than Twinned Spell, this is also really good. But they nerfed Twin hard. I'm definitely not happy about that. I really like the sorc-only spells here too. They're thematic and flavorful, and feel about right for a sorcerer. I only wish they'd shown the Wild Magic sorc instead of the Draconic sorc. Oh well.

Warlock: Again, I'm going against the grain here. I think changing warlocks to half-casters is a good idea. I'm not so sure about making Mystic Arcanum an Invocation, but I'm willing to give it a shot. Overall, I'm cautiously optimistic with the warlock in this UA.

Wizard: I love the laser focus on scholarly learning and preparedness here. I agree that the Scribe/Modify/Create spells should probably be class features, but I can understand why they're not, so it's whatever.

[ZRN]

So Warlocks seem to have some bigger changes. For one, they don't get Pact Magic any more! They're half-casters. They can still get access to higher-level spells by taking Mystic Arcanum as an invocation, though, which'll let them cast whichever spell they chose for it once per long rest. I think this will be a contentious change, although I do know players who picked Warlock thinking they'd get to throw around more spells than they currently can. I don't know if explicitly making them half-casters will change that.

I don't like this change. First, I don't think the people giving feedback that they want warlocks to cast more spells meant that they wanted their level 12 warlock to be able to cast half a dozen first-level spells a day (and nothing above third level). Second, they did a good thing by getting rid of some of the invocation "taxes" (e.g. Thirsting Blade) and adding an an extra invocation, but then they more than negate that by cutting ALL mystic arcanums (arcana?) from the class features and making you spend invocations on them.

Warlocks as half-casters, man, really just doesn't work for me. Previously you could eldritch blast (or go pact of the blade) for a repetitive but competent baseline contribution to combat, but you had powerful spells to spice things up once or twice a combat. Now it's usually a waste of an action to cast a spell (other than eldritch blast) in combat. It's fully possible that a playtest warlock can still be reasonably powerful (Shield is great, etc.) but I don't like the change.

[verbatim]

The shown martials and sorcerer seem cool, haven't given warlock enough thought yet but making Mystic Arcanum into invocations really limits invocation flexibility and I think that's a tragedy.



Did Wizard get hurt at all outside of less prep spells? I get that the meme is they always get the good stuff, but it feels like a lot of classes took nerfs going to 5.5e and Wizards gained the ability to pay for permanent metamagic (this is cool, I'm mainly talking relative power to other classes) and also the ability to get medium armor and shield prof off of one feat.

[ZRN]

For a less negative response, I like the barbarian a lot and the fighter a decent amount.

Fighter: The nerf to action surge kinda hurts but it was always dumb to see wizards take levels of fighter to double-cast spells, etc. Indomitable is another big, good change. They did a good job overall of keeping the higher levels spicy - it's no longer the case that you feel like you're playing suboptimally by not taking levels of barbarian or rogue or something after level 11. Weapon Adept is pretty cool - you're making actual round-by-round tactical choices with it. Weapon Expert (the level 7 one) is weirder - how often will you actually switch your mastery for a particular weapon on a long rest? But given how many magic longswords there are in the game and how terrible Flex is it'll definitely get use.

(Another note on mastery traits: it's cool the way that the trait prerequisite works, so that e.g. you can put Push and Topple on your longbow because longbows are Heavy. Lots of cool options there.)

Barbarian: Ah, the barbarian, the master of stealth, with a minimum roll of 20 on stealth checks even in heavy armor as long as he's angry enough. (I kid.) Very cool changes overall. I actually really like the skill stuff - stealth could be odd but it could also make a lot of sense in some cases, so I don't mind it being on the list.

Wizard: (Time to be negative again.) OK, if evoker is one of the subclasses, and we only get 4 per class, who else makes the cut? Definitely diviners, necromancers, and abjurers, right? Also, wow, they did NOT balance Modify+Create Spell. Like, the following are all now basically rituals: Control Weather, Mirage Arcane, Contingency, Guards & Wards, Scrying, Hallucinatory Terrain, Fabricate, Clairvoyance. And that evoker subclass sure was unique from level 3 to level 9, when all the sudden every blasting spell in the book gets modified to only affect enemies.

[arisroot]

Sorcerers gain more spells known per level now, and also some additional Sorcerer specific spells. But yes, the Wizard's Create Spell is super busted; it can make any utility spell a ritual spell, and only prepare combat spells now. We circled back to 4e.

Only if the spell already has a casting time over 10 minutes. There aren't too many of those that I can recall that would change much since these types of spells are usually used during downtime anyway. Is there an example of busted spell that you can think of?

[OvisCaedo]

Looking at Warlock and Sorc's level 18 features against each other is absolutely hilarious

[paladinn]

I'm starting to appreciate 5e as-is much more now.

I may grab a few of the new fighter features and the sorcerer's new spells-per-day chart, but that may be it.

[Marcloure]

Only if the spell already has a casting time over 10 minutes. There aren't too many of those that I can recall that would change much since these types of spells are usually used during downtime anyway. Is there an example of busted spell that you can think of?

You are right, the spell has to have at least 10 minutes of casting time, not at most as I read at first

[Lavaeolus]

I don't like this change. First, I don't think the people giving feedback that they want warlocks to cast more spells meant that they wanted their level 12 warlock to be able to cast half a dozen first-level spells a day (and nothing above third level). Second, they did a good thing by getting rid of some of the invocation "taxes" (e.g. Thirsting Blade) and adding an an extra invocation, but then they more than negate that by cutting ALL mystic arcanums (arcana?) from the class features and making you spend invocations on them.

Warlocks as half-casters, man, really just doesn't work for me. Previously you could eldritch blast (or go pact of the blade) for a repetitive but competent baseline contribution to combat, but you had powerful spells to spice things up once or twice a combat. Now it's usually a waste of an action to cast a spell (other than eldritch blast) in combat. It's fully possible that a playtest warlock can still be reasonably powerful (Shield is great, etc.) but I don't like the change.

I agree, honestly. If this change is stuck with, I think I'd like Mystic Arcanum to not compete with invocations. But Pact Magic was one of Warlock's unique traits and while we have a stated justification for the change:

The most-requested change to Warlocks has been for them to be able to use their spells more often. They therefore now cap out at 15 Spell Slots instead of 4.

...that heavier spellcasting is, as you say, now limited to lower level spells. The earlier Mystic Arcanum is probably meant to patch this magical gap, but its once-per-long-rest clause is pretty limiting when (for most of a campaign) it's your only access to 4th-level-or-higher spells.

[Oramac]

The most-requested change to Warlocks has been for them to be able to use their spells more often. They therefore now cap out at 15 Spell Slots instead of 4.

...that heavier spellcasting is, as you say, now limited to lower level spells. Mystic Arcanum is probably meant to patch this magical gap, but its once-per-long-rest clause is pretty limiting when (for most of a campaign) it's your only access to 4th-level-or-higher spells.

I don't mind the half-caster thing, but I can see where you're coming from here.

I guess the question is, what's the middle ground? People want more casting, but not on a "standard" caster chassis.

Personally, I'd just say they get more maximized spell slots. Perhaps capping out at 10-12 maxed slots instead of 15 single-level slots.

[GooeyChewie]

I don't mind the half-caster thing, but I can see where you're coming from here.

I guess the question is, what's the middle ground? People want more casting, but not on a "standard" caster chassis.

Personally, I'd just say they get more maximized spell slots. Perhaps capping out at 10-12 maxed slots instead of 15 single-level slots.

Honestly, I think the answer is to make short rests easier and more attractive overall, so that the Warlock player isn't the only one calling for a short rest.

[ZRN]

Only if the spell already has a casting time over 10 minutes. There aren't too many of those that I can recall that would change much since these types of spells are usually used during downtime anyway. Is there an example of busted spell that you can think of?

I made a list in my post a couple up from yours. Scrying and Contingency are a couple examples that IMHO were partially balanced by the fact that they cost a spell slot. Now any time you've got 10 minutes to spare it's dumb NOT to cast your free Contingency. Scrying is even worse because there are plenty of times where casting it a dozen times in a row is probably more powerful than intended. (Bad guy beat the save DC? No problem, try each of his 400 minions one at a time!)

[Talij]

The intention for Hex Master has to be you can cast Hex for free at 5th level, right? As written it obviously shouldn't be interpreted that way, but otherwise its significantly weaker than wizards 15th level ability to CHOSE a 1st AND 2nd level spell to get at will. Even free 5th level castings seems is weaker than sorcerer arguably wizard's 18th level spell.

[Oramac]

Honestly, I think the answer is to make short rests easier and more attractive overall, so that the Warlock player isn't the only one calling for a short rest.

That's fair, but how? You'd pretty much have to give every class a short rest resource to worry about, in addition to whatever other features they're juggling. Doable, but it would add a lot of bookkeeping that a bunch of players don't or won't do.

[Trask]

The most-requested change to Warlocks has been for them to be able to use their spells more often. They therefore now cap out at 15 Spell Slots instead of 4.

This resulting in a half-caster warlock feels like a poorly worded Wish gone wrong.

[Hurrashane]

Don't know if this was the case in previous UAs but Hand crossbows are light, and the light description doesn't need them to be melee weapons for TWF. And with the attack rules that allow you to unequip and equip between attacks that means you can always have a hand free to load it.

Weird that Darts aren't light tho. Can throw two daggers but not two darts.

[ZRN]

I don't mind the half-caster thing, but I can see where you're coming from here.

I guess the question is, what's the middle ground? People want more casting, but not on a "standard" caster chassis.

Personally, I'd just say they get more maximized spell slots. Perhaps capping out at 10-12 maxed slots instead of 15 single-level slots.

Options I'd consider:

1. Give them 1 more spell/short rest at maybe level 5-7.
2. Change the short rest mechanic to take 10 minutes instead of 30 so they party whines less.
3. Give them an ability to refresh their expended slots as a bonus action once/long rest.

But I feel that their reasoning is disingenuous to begin with. A level 20 warlock doesn't have 4 slots vs. 15 unless the party isn't taking any short rests; it should be 8-12/day, plus 4 more from arcanum which now costs an invocation, so overall this is basically a nerf in spells/day, not even to mention the fact that they're mostly unusably low-level.

[Sparky McDibben]

That's fair, but how? You'd pretty much have to give every class a short rest resource to worry about, in addition to whatever other features they're juggling. Doable, but it would add a lot of bookkeeping that a bunch of players don't or won't do.

Most classes have SR refresh class abilities (like ki, channel divinity, bardic inspiration, wild shape). The only ones who don't are barbarians, rogues and sorcerers. Just make short rests 10 minutes and tie that to old school exploration turns so time feels like a meaningful resource. Worked great for me the last few years.

[Ignimortis]

Hoo boy. This is hilarious. I was not expecting WotC to go this hard with Wizard buffs. My predictions will be fully realized and spot-on if/when Monk comes out and turns out to be slightly nerfed compared to default Tasha-era Monk.

Seriously, Wizards get to prepare metamagic'd spells and then make them the default...and Fighters get to...have TWO basic weapon properties, most of which are lame, but only apply one per attack, or it'll be too broken!

[Psyren]

You are right, the spell has to have at least 10 minutes of casting time, not at most as I read at first

Glyph of Warding as a ritual seems really good. They should also probably just delete Simulacrum from the game at this point.

[Dienekes]

Hoo boy. This is hilarious. I was not expecting WotC to go this hard with Wizard buffs. My predictions will be fully realized and spot-on if/when Monk comes out and turns out to be slightly nerfed compared to default Tasha-era Monk.

Seriously, Wizards get to prepare metamagic'd spells and then make them the default...and Fighters get to...have TWO basic weapon properties, most of which are lame, but only apply one per attack, or it'll be too broken!

Right. I don't think you and I are going to get the warrior classes we want from this game. I just don't anymore. For the record, Crawford has said in the last two or three videos that:

1) Playing with these Masteries has been the most fun he's ever had playing a martial class. More than Tome of Battle. More than 4e. More than Superiority Dice in the final form and in the a bit more interesting Next Playtest where they refreshed every turn.

2) He's playing the Champion.

I'm pretty sure at this point what he wants and what I (and pardon me for assuming but I'm going to guess you as well) want are two diametrically opposed things.

[Sparky McDibben]

Does anyone else think it's weird you can be a fiend pact Warlock who summons a celestial familiar?

[GooeyChewie]

That's fair, but how? You'd pretty much have to give every class a short rest resource to worry about, in addition to whatever other features they're juggling. Doable, but it would add a lot of bookkeeping that a bunch of players don't or won't do.

Most classes have SR refresh class abilities (like ki, channel divinity, bardic inspiration, wild shape). The only ones who don't are barbarians, rogues and sorcerers. Just make short rests 10 minutes and tie that to old school exploration turns so time feels like a meaningful resource. Worked great for me the last few years.

Sparky beat me to it. Making short rests 10 minutes would make it a lot easier for parties to incorporate them into the adventure.

[Gignere]

Is it not just wording? They still can only change spells on level up, so very different from Wizards and Clerics.

Yeah looks like it’s just making the terms and wording between classes more uniform. Now all spell casters prepare spells but sorcerers, warlocks and likely bards can only prepare new spells on level up.