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2023-04-26, 04:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unearthed Arcana - PH Playtest 5 - One D&D
This has to be straight-up disingenuous on his part, unless he's never played a martial before at all, or only played the default 5e champion.
But yes, my expectations were pretty much set since the Expert package, and boy, WotC still found a way to disappoint me!
In other news, GWM and Sharpshooter bonus damage seem to be missing entirely, so martial damage is actually cut compared to 5e PHB.Last edited by Ignimortis; 2023-04-26 at 04:31 PM.
Elezen Dark Knight avatar by Linklele
Favourite classes: Beguiler, Scout, Warblade, 3.5 Warlock, Harbinger (PF:PoW).
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2023-04-26, 04:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unearthed Arcana - PH Playtest 5 - One D&D
That's typically been the exact opposite of me (preferring Sorcerer over Wizard), but you may be delighted to know that I've got myself a wizard prepared to run soon!
Also, welcome back friend!Something Borrowed - Submission Thread (5e subclass contest)
TeamWork Makes the Dream Work 5e Base Class Submission Thread
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2023-04-26, 04:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unearthed Arcana - PH Playtest 5 - One D&D
Oh boy, well, here we go.
Personally, my overall impressions having read over all of the classes and mastery abilities, and glanced over the rest: not terribly impressed. Now having seen their first pass at everything but the Monk, my confidence that what I'll be doing with this new version is cherry-picking the good ideas for house-rules in 5E games and otherwise ignoring it is pretty high. Unless a lot changes between now and the final version, I don't see myself getting the new edition based on this.
Going over more specific impressions...
Spoiler: For LengthWeapon changes: I like the Trident doing more damage, but dislike the changes to the Lance. Under this version it would be impossible to do what my current character does with it and live the Knight wielding a lance and shield while mounted fantasy. And it would actually now be impossible for my character to use at all, since he's a Halfling, and it gained the Heavy property. Also really don't like the guns being on the PHB weapons list, even with a disclaimer that the DM determines their availability. Those seriously impact setting flavor, and including them in the default will create the impression to new players that they should usually expect them to be in most settings.
Weapon Mastery stuff: I could go over all of these individually, but I think my reaction to it is mostly at the big-picture level. My own group has been using the Kobold Press rules for Weapon Maneuvers, with small modifications for specific maneuvers we didn't like, for a while now, and looking at this, I cannot see why we would ever prefer this to that. It's so much more limited and uninspired.
Barbarian: Rare case where I don't have much bad to say. Allowing them to use a bonus action to keep rage going so they can't be put in a position where maintaining rage is impossible is a good idea - although I don't think they should've removed taking damage as a way to keep it going at the same time, as that was flavorful. Getting more health when Relentless Rage kicks in. The changes to Frenzy are good on the Berserker end of things, as is Intimidating Presence's DC using strength instead of charisma. I do look at the "Primal Knowledge" skill and tilt my head, though. I get allowing them to substitute strength in Intimidation checks while raging, that's obviously perfectly understandable, and I can even stretch things to make Acrobatics kinda make some sense. But the other three skills, not so much, especially Stealth, which you'd think a rage should if anything be very detrimental to.
Fighter: A lot of this is tied up in the weapon mastery stuff, and I'm generally not the target audience for the class outside of specific subclasses (Eldritch Knight and Psychic Warrior, mainly). Seems like someone who liked the weapon mastery stuff might be happy with it, but since I'm happier with a separate thing my group already has, I just kind of shrug and pass this one over, personally.
Sorcerer: And now we get more into the stuff I'll be complaining about, since we're into the classes I'm more interested in/opinionated about. Why the hell are half of their new class features spells? They're clearly designed as class features, not spells. I mean hell, they're pretty close to flavorless other than "power associated with a sorcerer." Things like Sorcery Incarnate and Sorcerous Vitality are mechanically fine, but feel like mechanics for their own sake, not because they represent anything flavorful about the class. I also don't get why all Sorcerers now get Chaos Bolt, Arcane Eruption, and that new "Sorcerous Burst" cantrip. The former two seem appropriate for a Wild Magic Sorcerer, but not necessarily other types, and the latter is just another flavorless and uninspired ability. And they really need to just rename Twinned Spell if that's how they're going to make it work, because that name no longer fits that effect at all. It's not doubling up on a spell, it's saving you a spell slot, and they added an awkward prerequisite in order to justify the name. I'll give them this on the Sorcerer: most of the other changes to metamagic are good... although Distant Spell bringing back caster level dependent spell range is not something I want.
For the Draconic Sorcerer specifically, I don't like the change to Dragon Speech. What you gain feels minimal (how many Dragon-type creatures didn't already speak Draconic?), and what you lose is being able to use Draconic to talk to other characters who know the language. I'd much rather have the language. And I'm not thrilled with tying their higher-level abilities to those new "spells" like they do.
Warlock: I'm going to be the weird person who does not like the change to Warlocks' main ability score. I cannot personally see the class as anything but a Charisma caster, and I especially don't like that now my preferred version of the class, Pact of the Tome, cannot be that. And like with the Sorcerer, for no reason, some of their class features are now spells. And while I'm glad they want to give the class more spell slots and no longer tie them to short rests, I strongly dislike them becoming a half-caster class. In the video they commented that the Warlock "occupies a similar design space to the Paladin and Ranger" to justify that, and I can't imagine where they get that idea. Paladins and Rangers are fundamentally martial classes that get some spellcasting ability - the Holy Knight and the Natural Warrior, basically. The Warlock in concept is still all about magic. The Pact of the Blade offers them the ability to have some martial capability, but that's like pointing to the College of Valor Bard as a reason to make that class a half-caster. And yes, they didn't get actual spell slots beyond 5th level before, but the big deal here is that they now get higher-level spell slots a lot slower than before. And that in order to gain the same number of true high-level spells as before they now need to spend almost half of their Invocations on Mystic Arcanum, which also sucks.
I'll give them this: the Blade Pact is functionally better now, and there are improvements as far as a lot of the undesirable Invocations go. But at the same time, the Chain Pact now suffers the same fate as Wild Shape and gives you a generic stat block for a familiar, removing most of its appeal from the get-go. So yeah, not a lot for me to like here.
Wizard: This one practically feels like they've done deliberate self-parody with the features they turned into spells. I mean, you now cast a spell in order to scribe a spell into your spellbook. Seriously? How did they make that with a straight face? It's so dumb. And some of the others would be fine as class features, but as spells, they just feel so utterly out of place. I mean, when you're calling a spell "Create Spell..." just wow; I want to say more, but I'd pretty much be repeating what I said about Scribe Spell but in different words. I'm also not a big fan of them allowing Wizards to change the damage type of spells with Modify Spell - yes, it's much less flexible than what a Sorcerer gets since they can't do it on the fly, and I do appreciate them at least trying to keep that in-flavor that way, but I still feel that should be a Sorcerer's domain exclusively, not a Wizard's.
Granted, outside of those new class features that are arbitrarily spells, not much changed with the Wizard, which is fine IMO. But just the fact that they've done that is so laughable that I cannot imagine what they were thinking.Toph Pony avatar by Dirtytabs. Thanks!
"When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." -C.S. Lewis
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2023-04-26, 04:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unearthed Arcana - PH Playtest 5 - One D&D
Ok, just read the 50 for the 1st time.
Modify Spell is nice, you pay a 4th level slot to add a metamagic effecto to one spell until your next long rest, a 4th vl slot is quite an investment at lvl 7, and if you wanna modify 2 spells, you need to spend a 5th level slot and so on, it get more powerful the higher your level since you can afford to spend higher level slots in order to have more spells modified, but I think while powerful, its somewhat fair, you get either Transmute, Distant, Careful, Subtle lite, Super Concentration which can be pretty nice for some specific spells like Haste, or Ritual, which I think can break some spells.
Rukelnikov's Antipathy allows you to spend 2 hours to create a 10 day duration, no attunement, only need to be carried, magical object that forces X type of creature to save or be repulsed by you. Have a free afternoon? Spend those 8 hours making 4 magic items! Also, "free" Guard and Wards, Mirage Arcane and Hallucinatory Terrain, sound very interesting.
Create Spell though, seems very powerful, it'll probably won't get out of hand until T4 due to economic and downtime constraints, but the first campaign a wizard ends post 9 you can expect them to be sinking their gold into improving most (every?) spell in their book. I like the idea of the feature, and will definitely say so in the feedback, but I'm a bit concerned about it being too powerful.
Warlock has been gutted in theme, losing pact magic, but mechanically they are not as bad as some people seem to think, if you spend every invocation from level 5 onwards on mystic arcanum, you are only a couple slots behind a full caster, and on par on highest spell level available. By the time you get base 3rd/4th and 5th level slots, you can trade those arcanums for something else, though I could see keeping some for extra spells/long rest.
If we do this, given that this Warlock doesn't have pact magic, they can be more directly compared to other full casters, Lock a smidge less spells per long rest and lesser flexibility in their preparation (a stricter Vancian... round and round it goes?), and to compensate they get the Boon, and a couple Invocations.
Tome was gutted, getting access to pretty much every cantrip in the game is very nice, but getting any 3 cantrips and the higher level rituals was nicer IMO. In exchange you get Ago Blast+ for free, saving an invocation is nice, so if you are not interested in familiars or weapons you are till getting an invocation's worth out of your pact. Blade gets Thirsting for free, and Chain gets Voice for free.
So 1 more invocation overall, and 1 "free" invocation from boon which was previously mostly a tax, but now 4 invocation taxes in the form of Mistyc 6-9 means overall 2 less "flex" invocations.
However, I think these Locks would still see play, why? Because you can qualify for the class with any mental stat, and you can get a feat with only 2 levels in it. Sure its only 1st level feats, that includes Alert, Lucky, Magic Initiate, Tough and all the Fighting Styles. For just 2 levels, you get every cantrip in the game, or using your mental stat for weapon attacks and making weapons returning, a 1st level feat, another invocation of your choice and 1 "effective caster level". I think Locks will make for very tempting dips, maybe those dips hurt in the long run, but... even that's a bit thematic.
Hex Master is a joke of a feature.
Sorcerer 18 is insane and I love it. Dragon Sorc went from permanent flight at 18 to improving a specific concentration to grant flight... I dig Sorcery Incarnate as a spell, but it being concentration if all subs are gonna be modifiying it, you get trapped between not using other concentration spells or not using your subclass features. If that's the idea of the class, then that feature need more customizability, either more beneficial bullet points which you get to choose from, or straight up reducing sorcery point costs by 1 while active, so you can really make use of your metamagics while its on (1d4 sp is not nearly enough to warrant that), and your customization comes in the form of which MM you picked (though you get 3 now and... 3 more at 10? I don't like that bump, why not incrementals?)
Fighter Design wise I really dislike the new levels for fighters extra feats, IDK why but when looking at the table there's something very wrong with bonus feat 4, bonus feat 5, bonus feat 15, bonus feat 16.
Masteries are nice, could be better, but I don't think Weapon Adept is as bad as its being painted, unless I'm missing something, changing weapons ain't as easy as it was in the first UAs, you can only draw or stow 1 weapon per attack action, and dropping your weapon is included in stowing, so its not like you can attack with a Greatsword and a Halberd on the same turn without some special feature. This does make throwing weapons awesome though, since you can equip and unequip the weapon as part of the attack.
Cleave lends itself very nice to Weapon Mastery, since the secondary attack made by cleave can benefit from the other property of the weapon, and GWM already can only trigger once per turn, meaning you get the most out of it by hitting once a turn with said weapon, and in that one attack you can make use of both properties.
Vex seems kinda strong, will I have advantage on the attack after this one? No, use Vex weapon, Yes, use something else. Its situationally the weakest or one of the strongest.Last edited by Rukelnikov; 2023-04-26 at 04:57 PM.
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2023-04-26, 04:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unearthed Arcana - PH Playtest 5 - One D&D
Overall mixed, I think. Barbarian looks really good to me. I've always had a soft spot for Berserkers, and it looks very solid now. TWF for barbs, assuming you pick use weapons with the Nick mastery, seems quite good, with no bonus action competition.
Fighter I'm not quite so happy with, but it's still an improvement. Don't know why Second Wind doesn't recover a use on a short rest, just like the Druid/Paladin's Channel Nature/Divinty do. Seems like an oversight to me. Indomitable being actually useful now is great. Champion still doesn't look very good to me, but it's my least favourite subclass by a country mile so I don't know.
Warlock I'm torn on. I don't think it looks quite as bad as some people are saying, but Mystic Arcanum requiring invocations does restrict a fair amount. Getting a free cast of a patron spell is nice. The 18th level feature HAS to let you cast a 5th level Hex, right? ...Right? Also Armour of Shadows looks pretty unappealing now that Warlocks get medium armour.
Sorcerer I like, at least the base class. Twin got hit pretty hard, but everything has been improved nicely; I think it's a pretty good spot.
I don't think Wizard needed any buffs. Oh well.
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2023-04-26, 04:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unearthed Arcana - PH Playtest 5 - One D&D
I'm more with you than most of the reactions.
Barbarian, they are not really my thing but it seems pretty solid. Brutal Critical is fractionally better but more importantly they don't double and treble down on it like before
Fighter. Indomitable works!! Seriously this is a lot of the fix that fighter needed. At level 17 they can do it 6 times per day (using your second wind for anything else is dumb, so don't). At which point they have an ability that even 17th level full casters have to glance at with envy - the ability to shrug off save or suck stuff with a high level of reliability. I think you will now see even quite optimised builds staying in Fighter to grab this ability late-game.
Sorcerer. Feels like giving with one hand and taking with the other but some of the features are super-cool and if you didn't take twin spell you are not really losing anything.
Wizard. I would like to see the new scribe-like features in action before deciding if they break anything.
Warlock. This one needs playtesting. Its a huge change, you can't look at an existing warlock and see how to translate them over easily because the changes are too big for that. My initial impression was negative but a rebuild of my current 6th level warlock actually looked fine with the new UA. I think a 1-20 rebuild of a decent character (not a crazy optimised thing, single classed decent warlock) will settle my thoughts on whether the new version works at all. There are definitely changes here I don't like such as tomelocks apparently not being able to scribe new spells into their book of shadows.
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2023-04-26, 05:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unearthed Arcana - PH Playtest 5 - One D&D
Ok, now I can actually sit down and take a proper deep dive into the document. All 50 pages of it.... here we go!
Weapons:
- Guns are now in the PHB. Personally, I think guns in fantasy should be explored a bit more, but I don't think guns should be a player-facing option since it relies so much on DM/setting buy-in.
- Weapon Mastery! Hip hip hooray! Weapons actually innately do cool things! This'll be fun to play around with.
Spells:
- A few spells that were de facto class features (Vicious Mockery, Eldritch Blast, etc) are now actually class features. Nice.
- I always wondered why Sending wasn't originally a Divination spell. I'm glad to see that's been fixed.
- Sorcerers and Warlocks actually have some unique, thematic spells that they don't share with Wizards. That's good.
- I pointed this out upthread, but a lot of these new spells seem like class features that they made spells for no good reason. If the spell itself is indistinguishable from a class feature, and gaining the spell is literally the only thing that the class feature with the exact same name grants, then at that point just make the darn thing a proper class feature. In particular, Book of Shadows, Create Spell, Memorize Spell, Modify Spell, Pact Weapon, Scribe Spell, Sorcerous Vitality (and arguably Hex and Pact Familiar) could all very easily be class features.
- Seriously, there's no reason that adding a spell to your spellbook should, in and of itself, be a spell.
Feats:
- Epic boons now actually feel epic, though I'm still not a fan of limiting them to specific superclasses. Let me be a Fighter who teleports after every attack, darn it!
- Epic Boons now increase the max of one Ability Score to 30. Mind you, the de facto cap is 23 (Barbarian excepted), since the Epic Boon only increases it by 1 and you get an additional +2 from your class. Which is a bit of a letdown, since 20th level promises massive ASI gains and then doesn't deliver.
Barbarian:
- I appreciate that it's easier to keep Rage up and going.
- Considering it's the backbone of the class, I can't help but feel that Barbarians should be able to use Rage more often. Sure, 2-6 uses is...fine, and will probably get you through the adventuring day, but you still have to kind of ration it. Especially now that you can use Rage out of combat, you're going to blow through it very quickly indeed.
- I've never been a fan of how Rage Damage is just an extra +2/+4 damage. It seems both very arbitrary and very small. Maybe make it so you can add your CON modifier to damage instead? I don't know, I'm just spitballing; but I'd love to see Rage Damage become more impactful.
- I love that you can use Rage as a tool for intimidation now. That's absolutely wonderful.
- Reckless Attack should really be chosen for every attack you make, not just once for your turn.
- It still doesn't feel like there's much of a reason to play a high-level Barbarian. There's just not much to keep you engaged past 9th level.
- Going back to bullet point #2, Rage Resurgence is not a thing that I think should exist. Sure, on paper it's better to have it than not have it, but it really just comes across as a bandaid for the Barbarian not getting enough uses of Rage in the first place.
- Beserker still seems to be the "vanilla" subclass, but at least it's actually playable this time. It's still nothing to write home about, though.
Fighter:
- WotC is really pushing for Fighters to be "the weapons guy/girl". You know what? I'm ok with that, since it gives Fighters a more distinct identity.
- Ooooooo, Second Wind gets enough uses to justify it's own column in the leveling table!
- I'm not a fan of how Action Surge got nerfed. Even if the Fighter can't innately use the Magic action, I'd at least like the option to.
- Indomitable is awesome now, to the point where I strongly suspect it'll get nerfed before release. Bummer. Let my 20th-level Fighter roll with +31 to a saving throw, just once!
- Just a bit of wording cleanup: Two Extra Attacks and Three Extra Attacks should probably read: "You can attack thrice/four times whenever you take the Attack action on your turn". Otherwise a player could get confused and think they have one less attack than they do (I've done this more than once).
- You know what vibe I'm getting from the Fighter now? Determinator. What with Indominable, Unconquerable, and more uses of Second Wind, I'm seeing someone who will just push through whatever obstacle is put in front of them and will. Not. Give. UP.
- Curiously, WotC has not made Battlemaster maneuvers a class feature for Fighters. Considering how much maneuvers were pushed in 5e, I honestly thought they would be more prominent in the playtest.
- I'd prefer it if the Champion actually did something with the additional critical hits that you gain, on top of the improvements present in this playtest. This version still isn't very....coherent.
Sorcerer:
- I know I already went on a prolonged rant about how class features shouldn't be spells, but Sorcerous Burst and Chaos Bolt actually work because they're both something that can only work as spells.
- Spellcasting gives more spells to the Sorcerer over the life of the character, now capping at 22 rather than 15. This is one of the most-requested changes to the class
- And now back to your regularly scheduled rant: Arcane Eruption and Sorcery Incarnate should be actual class features, not spells. A class feature that grants a spell and has the same name as the spell is completely redundant, just copy/paste the text of the spell into the class feature.
- I do not like the pacing of Metamagic; you really shouldn't have to wait 11 levels to get more.
- Speaking of Metamagic, Twin Spell got nerfed into the ground. In lieu of casting a spell twice, you can instead cast the spell....again. On your next turn. For a measly 2 Sorcery Point discount. Yep, this stinks.
- In stark contrast to what the 5e Sorcerer got, this version has frickin' Wish as a capstone! That is one heck of a capstone, and I am all for that!
- I can't help but feel like the Draconic Sorcery's Elemental Affinity should be a 3rd level option, since elemental typing is the iconic part of a D&D dragon and you probably want that online a little earlier.
- Related to the above rant: subclass features shouldn't key off of spells!
Something else to note is that the playtest is moving away from the "You know one spell per spell slot" nonsense. Thank goodness for that.
Warlock:
- The Invocations have been cleaned up nicely, I wonder what else-
- Oh no.
- Oh no no no.
- no no no no no no no no no
- stop please stop
Wizard:
- Really leaning into the whole "learned scholar" angle here, aren't you, WotC?
- I still feel like Arcane Recovery should be a Sorcerer ability. It just feels more natural on them.
- Seems like spells prepared is now a flat number, rather than being based off of your Intelligence modifier. I'm opposed to this on thematic grounds, but practically speaking this isn't that much of a change, so I can't get too upset about it.
- You know how I've ranted about how spells shouldn't be class abilities? Yeah, I'm mostly talking about right here. Scribing a spell into your spellbook is now a spell? Swapping a prepared spell is now a spell?? Who thought this was a good idea?!?
- Should probably clarify that the spell made with the Create Spell ability can't then be modified with the Modify Spell ability to create an infinitely more convenient spell. Basically explicitly close the infinite loop.
- I never thought I'd say this, but the Wizard capstone stinks compared to the Sorcerer capstone. We're comparing Wish and a single casting of two third-level spells. Might want to up the game a little bit here.
I'm not going to touch the Glossary because this post is long enough already and there's not a lot of new content to really discuss. Also, I spent two hours on this post and I want to be done.Last edited by Ortho; 2023-04-26 at 05:08 PM.
The Everyman's Guide to Taking Up Arms - A Guide to Fighters
Practical Magical Gadgetry - A Guide to Artificers
Avatar courtesy of the webcomic Aurora, drawn by Red
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2023-04-26, 05:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unearthed Arcana - PH Playtest 5 - One D&D
I'll toss in the pile here that I don't think they really solved some of the issues with moving subclasses to level 3. Specifically, what does a level 1 celestial warlock or a level 1 aberrant mind sorcerer look like? In their current non-playtest iterations they strongly define the character from level 1; now, you don't even have to decide where your power comes from until level 3. Seems like a step back.
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2023-04-26, 05:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unearthed Arcana - PH Playtest 5 - One D&D
This is something I forgot to mention, but also gives me pause. I really like the additional rage utility, but especially at earlier levels, it's very costly expending a use of rage for a non-combat use.
This is how I feel about Warlock as well. I'm going to have to actually play around with it to see how it shakes out.
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2023-04-26, 05:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unearthed Arcana - PH Playtest 5 - One D&D
As a matter of fact - no, it's not weird at all Crawford and Todd talked about this explicitly in the devblog, i.e. now we have a new flavor of Warlock - the kind who gets their initial pact from one source, their Patron from another, and those two leaseholders/landlords may actually be at odds with one another and even vying for the Warlock's soul. And the Warlock themselves may or may not even care, because the one thing that matters most to Warlocks is obtaining power anywhere they can get it.
You can still play the old-school Warlock where you Patron is the lone source of everything you get (though they noted that for the Invocations, the 5e warlock doesn't actually specify those can only come from the same Patron that grants your subclass) - but this is a brand new expression of flavor that doesn't conflict with the 2014 version. I approve!
If you were looking for Base Fighter or even Champion to be a Tome of Battle-esque class - no, that's never happening.
What you might get, if Battlemaster isn't enough of a maneuver system and they don't get around to this via splat, is a third-party taking a swing at it whom you/we can then support.
Given that Bards have the school restriction we may end up with them still being able to swap as often as Wizards. After all, their power technically comes from study/rote memorization etc.
It lasts up to 10 minutes now instead of 1, so "out of combat" use likely means having it still active after you put down some enemies.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2023-04-26, 05:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unearthed Arcana - PH Playtest 5 - One D&D
One thing that a buddy and I only noticed on second reading:
The Wizard's "Create Spell" doesn't cost Gold. It costs you an Arcane Focus worth several thousand Gold.
At that point, it seems much more up to the DM to grant a Wizard the items needed, and thus the ability of creating new spells.
Didn't see that being pointed out here up until now.
Also, I kinda get, can kinda guess why some of these abilities are spells now:
They made a point earlier on of distinctly separating "Magic Actions" from other action possibilities, like Attack, Dash, Study, ...
So this leaves as little room as possible for discussing whether or not an ability is "magic" or "an ability".
It looks a little weird, but made sense on second thought.
Some wordings though, need redoing.
For example, the "Scribe Spell" feature spell reads:
"As you magically scribe the spell, you must copy it from another spellbook or a Spell Scroll, or you must have it prepared. If you copy it from a Spell Scroll, the scroll is destroyed. If you have the spell prepared, the casting time and component costs are halved."
This could be read as "I copy a spell with a casting time of 10 minutes into the book, and since I had it prepared, its casting time is henceforth 5 minutes."
Which is silly, but an almost reasonable (mis)interpretation of the rules text here.
All in all, I am excited for the changes they are making, and looking forward to the next UA iterations.
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2023-04-26, 05:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unearthed Arcana - PH Playtest 5 - One D&D
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2023-04-26, 05:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unearthed Arcana - PH Playtest 5 - One D&D
Also I'd like to re-point out that you can't modify spells made with create spell. Modify spell required an Arcane spell, create spell changes the spell from Arcane to Wizard.
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2023-04-26, 06:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unearthed Arcana - PH Playtest 5 - One D&D
I get what they're going for with Weapon Mastery and it's generally a good idea, but as someone else pointed out, in its current version here the optimal play is to rapidly switch between weapons on every attack. Which doesn't seem very fun. The simple fix seems to be to limit Weapon Masteries to one Property per useable turn, with the allowance for Fighters to use two per turn through Weapon Adept. They seem pretty cool otherwise.
Epic Boons continue to be typically deeply underwhelming, with the occasional outlier. In this case, Recovery and Night Spirit are dope, Energy Resistance is decent but needs the "half on a successful save" rider, and the rest are laughable.
Anyways, Barbarian looks excellent. Extra skills seems a bit odd on the Barbarian of all classes but it's a minor quibble. Berserker is a nice update, though I question how effective spending a full action on an AoE Frighten is when they're aren't any additional effects and immunity to fright is common in higher CR enemies.
Fighter's pretty good too. I've mentioned my Weapon Mastery thoughts above. The Action Surge nerf doesn't seem like a big deal- it really only prevents double-casting. Since you can still do whatever action normally before Action Surging it shouldn't affect various Fighter subclass abilities much. The buff to Indomitable is quite nice- only one use now but it offers a much better chance of success. And Unconquerable seems very cool too! The Champion is appropriately generic but seems to have lost its bits of dead weight.
In what's a recurring theme for this UA, I'm uncomfortable with tying class abilities firmly to spells, particularly when many of those spells aren't very good. Of the Sorcerer's new spells, Arcane Eruption seems quite good, Sorcerous Blast seems neat but still does less average damage than a d8 cantrip, Sorcerous Vitality is conditional at best, and I'm dubious that Sorcery Incarnate's effects are worth the spell slot and the concentration. They mostly feel like a distraction that makes your Sorcerer less different from other Sorcerers. But hey, at least Sorcerous Restoration is functional now and Arcane Apotheosis looks absolutely broken. Nice for Sorcerers to have something to look forward to at high levels.
Metamagic is a mixed bag. Most got buffed- in particular, Heightened Spell went from costly and rarely used to incredible for Hold spells or things like Contagion. Extended Spell and Careful Spell got nice buffs too. But Twinned Spell was nerfed down into borderline unusable. I think a better option of what they're going for would be to allow the Twinned Spell discount to apply to any repeat spell cast since your last Rest. Alternatively, just make Twinned Spell consume a second spell slot!
Draconic Sorcerer has good and bad. The low level stuff is nice: a boost to AC and no-cost resistance. Draconic Exhalation seems very likely to slow down the game and looks hardly worth it for the damage, though at least it's at-will. And Dragon Wings requires that you burn a 5th level spell slot and your concentration to fly! Terrible! The addition of the flat AoE is neat and clearly tries to copy the Paladin's capstone transformation but I find it really difficult to justify.
The Warlock is a goddamn mess. Half-casting progression, Mystic Arcanum Invocation Tax, Hex nerf, terrible Hex-based capstone. The list goes on. They barely touched the Fiend Patron so at least that's still fine. But yuck.
The Create/Modify/Scribe Spell aspect of the Wizard is going to get all the attention, and rightfully so, but what I hate about it is that it feels like a gold sink to upgrade spells. The Wizard isn't modifying something for new usage or creating a truly new spell, they're paying 3K gold to slap a shiny golden border on the label to make Better Hypnotic Pattern TM. It's not at all interesting. It's boring and overpowered, the signature move of WotC's Wizard.
(Also, Memorize Spell is rather steep as a 3rd level spell just to be able to spend another spell slot. I'd rather it be a proficiency-per-day thing or make it a unique up casting on the fly.)
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2023-04-26, 06:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unearthed Arcana - PH Playtest 5 - One D&D
I've lost all faith in WoTC to produce a quality system at this point.
Warlock is shot to hell, and the worst part of it is their perception and reactions are entirely based off of WoTC's last failure with the Warlock: The Hexblade.
Moving Patrons to 3rd level: Crawford specifically states that they moved patrons to 3rd level (which makes 0 sense narratively, literally "I've sold my soul to something or someone in exchange for powers, but they haven't agreed to the deal yet but they're totally chill with me having those powers now") because the team felt Warlocks did not have enough solo class flavor outside of subclass flavor. Consider the fact that Hexadin and Pallock are two entirely different terms that refer to two entirely different builds. The only difference is one of them is a Hexblade rather than literally any other patron.
"Warlocks need a nerf": Hexblade is more powerful than any other Patron (the closest contender likely being Undead, but it's not exactly close).
The biggest twist of the knife is that the feedback survey on the UA Hexblade was pretty clear in showing that it was way over powered, and in response they tweaked the one feature it had that wasn't balls to the wall insane.
So, yeah... I'm not looking forward to OneD&D, primarily because it means 5e won't be getting any new official content from here on out."I may be a Hobgoblin, but the real mythical creature I'm playing is an Ethical Billionaire"
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2023-04-26, 07:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unearthed Arcana - PH Playtest 5 - One D&D
I'm assuming you'll give more details to your concerns, but this seems hyperbole at its finest.
It makes plenty of sense, because in 5e you already did your deal and are 100% done with your patron if you want to be. This is bringing them in line with how everyone PLAYS them by having your patron involved. PS, you pick your Patron at level 1. Per the actual document "You determine the identity of the entity and choose its plane of existence, such as the Feywild, the Shadowfell, or an Outer Plane" It's at level 3 that you are beginning to learn things unique to your path with your patron. Just like a Cleric of Corellon gets to level 3 and chooses Magic, Forge, etc for their focus, a Warlock of Uk'otoa gets to level 3 and chooses if they're a hexblade or fathomless or great old one. The only limitation here is the one you're putt
Genie is pretty vicious, so is Fathomless.
What do you mean? We haven't seen the rebuild of the Hexblade yet, only the base Warlock and Fiend.
And one thing from page 1 I wanted to address (Not to you, just in general).
Hard disagree, I'm not sure on the half caster, will have to see. It is "weaker" but we'll see if it affects over all. But no, they don't really have "fewer", because a lot of the Boon Taxes are gone. TomeLocks no longer need to buy Book of Ancient Secrets and you can trade out Agonizing Blast at level 5. Chainlocks no longer need to buy Investment of the Chain Master or Voice of the Chain Master. Blacklocks don't need Lifedrinker or Thirsting Blade. So really, you have the same number of Invocations and the way Mystic Arcanum was rewrote improves on and replaces 7 old Invocations.
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2023-04-26, 07:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unearthed Arcana - PH Playtest 5 - One D&D
Yeah, I find it pretty silly. Reeks of rationalizing to get the mechanics they want rather than letting the mechanics follow through from the premise of the class.
Yes that will be optimal play until magic weapons and attunement get involved. I’m of two minds on it. On the one hand having those options seems fun. It’s closer to what I want to play. On the other, the juggling is a bit silly. Swapping weapons to deal with specific opponents is actually something that I think would be cool to implement. Having your standard rotation of attacks me swap to Topple weapon, attack get knockdown, swap to cleave weapon. Attack. Get it’s one prock. Repeat every single turn, feels pretty artificial.
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2023-04-26, 07:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unearthed Arcana - PH Playtest 5 - One D&D
You mean like the 5e Chainlock that could pick Imp, Pseudodragon, Quasit or Sprite regardless of your Patron? Exactly why are we critiquing something that's not a change? If you want to limit things at your table based on Alignment, go for it. But the game tries not to do those things.
Do the rules allow that? Last I checked drawing or putting away a weapon is kind of a once a turn free action sort of thing. So you could switch weapons once per round, or toss your weapons on the ground.
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2023-04-26, 07:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unearthed Arcana - PH Playtest 5 - One D&D
I see a lot of little adjustments that I really like, but I think overall this is a very poor UA:
In general:
•Trident damage adjustment may be the greatest change in this whole playtest document, IMO. The fact that it took them a decade to fix this is shocking!
•We fixed dual-wielding last time, just to break it again this time? BOOO.
•As I've said elsewhere, Weapon Masteries should absolutely not be gated behind class features or feats. Weapons are tools and choosing the right tool for the job is part of weapon selection. The abilities should be inherently available on the weapon(s), and the class abilities should be where "making X tool good at a different job" (ie: mixing and matching) comes into play.
•Weapon Masteries con't: The fact that you're limited to only a few specific weapon types, even for the martials, is so much more disappointing than I was expecting, and my expectations were already low.
•Dual Wielding: As Nick reads now, the fact that you can't replicate the most famous and obvious dual-wielding styles (ie: Rapier/Dagger or Longsword/Shortsword, etc) is a pretty staggeringly obvious miss.
•I'm surprised to find I agree with all the marked school changes for the listed spells. Usually they get this wrong more than right, but they did 100% good here, IMO.
•They're tripling down on turning abilities into spells. I hate it. I hate it so much.
•5e has been absolutely missing a "spell crafting" system, but this isn't how it should be done. Creating new spells should be a whole thing, not just a spell you cast (if you're specifically a Wizard - no one else can ever create a new spell?).
•Generic Creature Statblocks continue to disappointingly remove unique and flavorful abilities from creatures they're meant to emulate. Pact Familiar now falls prey to this trap. A shame.
•Epic Boons are starting to look a lot more reasonable as Capstone replacements. We might not quite be there but we're much closer than in previous UAs.
Barbarian:
•The core problems with Barbarian haven't changed: It's too reliant on Rage, and Rage is too limited in availability. Rage needs to be available to use far more often, especially now that it has out-of-combat utility (some of which is beyond silly! Str-based Stealth? What??). We're putting bandaids on broken bones here - until this fundamental issue is addressed, nothing else matters and the class will continue to be a disappointment.
•I don't hate that using Rage requires a little more tactical thought than it did before. I'm sure some people will disagree and say it's a nerf that it no longer lasts a minute without refreshing, but more tactical thought is sorely lacking in 5e gameplay, so I think it's fine.
•Brutal Critical, the most disappointing ability in the game... gets (mostly) nerfed. Ouch! WTF WotC?
•Relentless Rage is a good change.
•Rage Resurgence is both too little and too late.
•Path of the Berserker: Hurray! The subclass that used to be "toss-in-the-bin-and-light-it-on-fire" bad is now actually playable! Probably still an under-performer, but that's a huge step up regardless!
Fighter:
•Not much really changes for Fighter. Disappointment with Weapon Mastery already noted, so we'll skip that.
•Adding Persuasion to the class list is good. Characters need more skill access in general, IMO.
•More uses of Second Wind is good.
•Action Surge is gonna piss some people off, but it's fine. Dipping Fighter to cast more spells is gaming the system in what I consider a gross way, and this nixes that entirely. Losing out on any "interaction" actions, however, is a noticeable nerf and one I hope they reconsider.
•Weapon Expert: A way to swap boring or useless Masteries with less-boring or more useful ones. Technically good, but I still hate the system.
•Indomitable gets a pretty massive buff. Fighters have been stuck with a weakness to mental effects because of how stats work ever since 3rd edition, so this is a nice way to get a bonus in overcoming big issues like Dominate effects a few times a day.
•Weapon Adept: If anyone's gonna manipulate weapon keywords, it should be the Fighter, so I'm good with this in a vacuum.
•Champion remains incredibly boring and (seemingly, at least) mathematically sound. Adaptable Victor stands out as just the saddest attempt at including some non-combat utility though; they should be able to come up with something more clever and useful than this.
(*Note before Spellcasters - Every single instance of a class ability changing into a class-restricted spell is heavily disagreed with on principle alone, regardless of individual effects.*)
Sorcerer:
•How are we gonna square the hole that is a Sorcerer getting their power from their very bloodline and it being weird to have to wait until 3rd level for it? Easy! We're just gonna totally ignore that the issue exists at all! Don't need to answer for a problem if we just pretend it doesn't exist! ...
•Sorcerer seems to be getting free access to, "Omg, So Random!" the spells. Very fitting for something like Wild Magic. Very off-theme for literally anything else.
•Increasing Spells Prepared (aka: Known) to 22 from 15 is one of those, "about damn time!" decisions. Kudos.
•Sorcerous Vitality*: I actually like the direction of Sorcerer being more "hearty" than other casters, so this effect is a nice addition.
•Arcane Eruption/Sorcery Incarnate*: Like Vitality, it's nice to have a more "raw arcane power" option other than only rote spells like a Bard or Wizard would rely on.*
* - In these exception, they feel fine as spell slot-ins, since tapping into your innate magical power should come at the cost of... your innate magical power.
•Metamagic: Wow, Twinned got obliterated. Hot damn... Otherwise, the reduced cost of Heightened is good and the small tweaks here and there are fine. I do think Additional Metamagic comes too late at level 13 though.
•Sorcerous Restoration feels much better! Good change here.
•Arcane Apotheosis is insane. Wish shouldn't be a class spell in the first place, and Sorcerer gets it not only for free, but improved, and with zero chance of ever losing it no matter the wish?? In. Sane.
•Draconic Sorcery seems fine. Tweaks here and there but nothing that really fundamentally changes it, or it's placement in a quality list.
Warlock:
•So... every Warlock, that can be, will be Wis-based now, I suppose. You'd be kinda dumb not to, unless you specifically want to be the party "face." Intelligence is a neat thematic option, but it's continued patheticness as a stat keeps it a really poor choice.
•No more need to dip Hexblade is a huge win, IMO. Just make the Pacts do the lifting they should have been doing all along. Good call. (Really dumb that they're all class-unique spells that you can only ever learn one of though...)
•Replacing Pact Magic with Half-Casting is such a huge mistake. Warlock is the one escape from the leveled casting and now it's not? Yes, people want more spell use in general (this is a "Mage" class that felt bad using it's slots! Duh), but all you had to do was slightly increase the available slots. Trashing the whole system is a terrible solution.
•Making Mystic Arcanum into an Invocation choice is just... cruel, really. Pact Magic and Mystic Arcanum were absolutely fine and didn't need fundamental changes. Again, just a few more usable slots.
•Contact Patron is either good or horribly horribly bad, depending on your patron. It makes a lot of sense for patrons you want a relationship with (Celestial, Fey, even Fiend) but makes absolutely zero sense with patrons you never ever want the attention of (Old Ones, etc).
•Hex remains disappointing, and doubling-down on it doesn't make it less disappointing.
•Isn't giving every Warlock access to Medium Armor "to better support Warlocks that walk a melee-oriented path" really just a backhanded way of admitting that Light Armor just doesn't cut it?
Wizard:
•Requiring the casting of a spell... in order to scribe a spell... is possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard of in ttrp gaming.
•Basically, nothing much to say about Wizards. They got buffed. (Really?!) Their late level abilities come earlier because of the change to capstones and they gain a convoluted way to permanently metamagic their spells. They seem to continue to step all over Sorcerer themes as well as lack any restriction(s) to their own themes. Wizards need big changes and, frankly, they'll never get them. Sacred Cows and all that...
•Academic is another buff, but frankly a necessary one. It's no Expertise, but too long have the Sages been embarrassed by Rogues in their ability to study and recall arcane lore!
•Evoker: Potent Cantrip seriously needed the buff, so that's good. Otherwise, nothing really to say.Last edited by Schwann145; 2023-04-26 at 08:14 PM.
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2023-04-26, 08:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unearthed Arcana - PH Playtest 5 - One D&D
I heartily agree with the "why in the world is that a spell?" concerns.
And buffing wizards? Did they nerf the heck out of spells and not tell anyone? Otherwise....yeah.
And weapon masteries? They took the most boring possible route, for mostly inconsequential effects. And it'll quickly just be "ok, I do my two standard things, in the same order, just with fiction-hostile weapon switching, some added bookkeeping, and some small riders.
Everything they put out makes my decision to pass on this "edition" firmer. And lowers my opinion of WotC's design staff. Or, a bit more politely, reveals that their vision for the game and my vision for the game have irreducible differences.Dawn of Hope: a 5e setting. http://wiki.admiralbenbo.org
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2023-04-26, 08:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unearthed Arcana - PH Playtest 5 - One D&D
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2023-04-26, 08:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unearthed Arcana - PH Playtest 5 - One D&D
Nope. From the UA, actually several back now, but returning in this one:
Originally Posted by UA Attack Action
Now, honestly that is a good change. It makes drawing two weapons, weapon and shield, and thrown weapons to actually function without handwaving on turn 1. But it does make things a bit funky here.Last edited by Dienekes; 2023-04-26 at 08:11 PM.
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2023-04-26, 08:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unearthed Arcana - PH Playtest 5 - One D&D
50 pages, that’s quite a pile. This might take a bit.
Weapon qualities:
Light weapons only get the extra attack without a BA. That’s fine.
Thrown weapons can be drawn as part of attacking. Finally!
Mastery traits look like cantrip riders for weapons. Some are better than others, but let’s see how it plays out
Net is special adventuring gear, which replaces an attack much like a shove does. Works for me, but raises the question of using other gear such as caltrops and alchemist fire in the same manner
Spells
We still have generic lists, but now each class will also get their own spells as well. So we’re back to class spell lists, but now with extra steps. You tried guys, this direction is just not working.
Nice to see Sorcs get something unique though. Arcane Eruption is cool, Sorcerous Burst in tier 1 is a trap, Sorcerous Vitality is meh. Sorcery Incarnate sounds like a class feature hiding as a spell, which brings me to…
Again, we are falling into ‘everything is a spell’ territory. Creating a spell is a spell. Scribing a spell is a spell. Preparing a spell is a spell.MetamagicModifying a spell is a spell. Your pact boon is a spell. These are basic mechanics and class features, they have no right being spells. Stop.
Feats
The more I see prerequisites of certain categories in these epic boons, the more annoyed I get. Just trash them, there’s no reason a level 20 EK fighter shouldn’t be able to choose the Boon of Travel, a Tiefling the boon of Energy resistance, a Monk the boon of blindsight or a bladesinger the boon of speed. Ditch the group restrictions, it serves no purpose.
Design notes
Oh my god thankyou! This goes a long way to avoid us trying to guess what you’re thinking and why you’re doing the things you are.
Barbarian
Rage is still blocked by heavy armor for no reason. Otherwise, all positive changes though I’d change the refreshes to short rest myself.
Weapon mastery is limited to a few weapons, boo.
Primal Knowledge is great, and another reason I’d like to see Rage become short-rest based to encourage that out-of-combat usage.
Feral Instinct is a good consolidation
Indomitable Might got a buff when used with Primal Knowledge, thumbs up
Brutal Critical is a great improvement, I wonder where they got that one from…
Berserker is great all around really, except for the number of uses Intimidating Presence has before it starts eating into your Rages
Fighter
Second Wind no longer short rest based. Sad, but is an improvement I guess.
Weapon mastery is limited to a few weapons, boo.
Action Surge now limits what sort of actions you can take. I don’t think that was necessary, especially since this screws over taunters, EKs and even fighters that pick up interesting magic items.
Weapon Expert is disappointing. You can already swap around the properties by just… swapping weapons, how about letting the fighter simply apply a second applicable property at the same time?
Indomitable gets a significant boost, but still only once per long rest bites. Please change to short rest recharge.
Weapon Adept should just be called Weapon Master, and is even more disappointing. Remember how at level 7 I suggested simply letting you use two properties at once? You don’t even get that at level 13, you still have to choose one or the other. Its really, really not that impressive guys.
Unconquerable is OK I guess? I don’t see why it has to only be usable after you’ve used your Indomitable
Champion is like Berserker an improvement all-round, though level 10 is perhaps still a bit meh.
Sorcerer
Spells prepared is once again separate from spell slots, huzzah!
We still have long rest spell slots, and long rest sorcery points, both used only for magic and can be converted between each other. Golden opportunity to make the jump to a single pool of spell points right here!
Extra metamagic at level 2, and three more at level 13. That’s fine
Your capstone is just Wish. OK.
Metamagic changes as stated by dev notes are all thumbs up, however A) Seeking is still too expensive though, B) extended isn’t tied to Sorc level like Distant is and C) Twinned Spell should probably be renamed to Repeat Spell
Draconic like Berserker and Champion is improved across the board, however I’d definitely extend the level 10 exhalation to also apply to Chaos Bolt too
Warlock
Boon at level 1 and picking casting stat is great
Spells prepared is once again separate from spell slots, huzzah!
Pact magic is gone, replaced with standard long rest slot halfcasting. I’m sorry what? Nope. No thank you, and the horse you rode in on. I cannot stress enough how much I DO NOT WANT the only and sole alternate method of magic and spellcasting to be removed. You lot should be coming up with more, different ways to express magic/spellcasting and this is exactly the opposite.
You get slightly more invocations but lose those 6+ spells. I don’t mind this honestly.
Contact Patron is neat and makes sense
At-Will Hex is you’re capstone, meh
Invocations I broadly approve of
Fiend Patron follows the trend with other subclasses thus far, good stuff all over
Wizard
Spells prepared is once again separate from spell slots, huzzah!
Academic is neat, I like it
Arcane Recovery still operates on a short rest, thank goodness. I hate watching this trend of short rests getting sidelined
All of those bonus spells you learn at levels 1, 3, 5, 7, and 9 are just class features. They don’t need to be spells at all, just have them be features.
Spell mastery and signature spells are still there and still good
Evoker is fine. No big impressive improvements like the other subclasses but it was already pretty good.
Glossary (changelog only)
Nothing really to note here, but I’m happy to see influence being iterated rather than dumped. I think the default DC is a bit high, however.
Overall
Pleasantly surprised. There isn’t anything earthshattering here but its good stuff, polishing and improving things I’d be happy to pick up and use at my table apart from one glaring, odious exception.Roll for it 5e Houserules and Homebrew
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2023-04-26, 08:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unearthed Arcana - PH Playtest 5 - One D&D
Had not noticed that, thank you.
While I agree it's a weird visual I think it'll just fit with all the other things where Mechanics CAN break fluff but I doubt most tables will do so.
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2023-04-26, 08:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unearthed Arcana - PH Playtest 5 - One D&D
Even with a d12 weapon, new Brutal Critical is still ahead at 11th level, the same at 13th level, and behind by 2 points at 17th level. (Note that means the new one is ahead from 11-16.) It then catches back up at 19th and beats it again at 20th.
For all other weapon damage dice, New Brutal Critical is ahead from 11-20.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2023-04-26, 08:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unearthed Arcana - PH Playtest 5 - One D&D
Ehh. Old version with a d12 weapon, that's an average of 6.5 at 9th level, 13 at 13, and 19.5 at 17.
New version is obviously nonexistent at 9. But at 11 it's greater than the old, equal at level 13, greater from levels 14-16, weaker 17-19, better at 20. Considering the rarity of even getting to play at levels 17-20, I think it's fair to say that the new version is better.
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2023-04-26, 08:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unearthed Arcana - PH Playtest 5 - One D&D
Sure, but you can't just assume averages. Besides, rolling dice for damage is part of the fun of the game. Sure, you might come up shorter, but when you hit for 36 extra points of damage, that feels so much better than a flat value every time.
Regardless, it's still a terrible ability that only happens 5% of the time.Last edited by Schwann145; 2023-04-26 at 08:49 PM.
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2023-04-26, 08:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Unearthed Arcana - PH Playtest 5 - One D&D
I would absolutely prefer to add my Barb level to a crit over an extra die, and this Brutal Critical doesn't eat up three level's worth of features.
If you wanted barbarians to be the crit + dice rolling kings, you could have made their crit damage rolls exploding dice.Roll for it 5e Houserules and Homebrew
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Re: Unearthed Arcana - PH Playtest 5 - One D&D
My group warlock did not like those changes too. I do think they should keep pact magic a it was. As you pointed out it brings variety and thats a good thing. A spell slot or two more would be enough.
Also mystic arcanun as a invocation make it almost mandatory, there is nothing there that can compete with 9th level spells, so that should stay as it was