OOTS #1279 - The Discussion Thread

[BloodSquirrel]

Five gold says that the fact that nobody has laid eyes on the Gate since sealing it up is going to be relevant before the end of the book.

That occurred to me at the time, but now that it's being brought to my attention afresh I'm wondering if the Gate is even still there. The Snarl may have broken through it already, except without the expected result of destroying the world. Yet.

Which leads to another interesting question- if the world within the rifts is new, and wasn't part of the previous cycles, what's different this time? Is this the first time anyone has tried sealing it with gates? Is the purple quib someone involved? Or have the Gods just never noticed it before because they were keeping it at a distance?

I've got to say, it's amazing how many plot threads are leading into this finale, how intertwined they all are, and how OOTs has been able to manage it's plot threads so consistently well that everyone seems to have total confidence that they'll all tie in together satisfyingly.

[Nembrotha]

So... Depending on how the magic butt-tattoo works, might be all Xykon needs to do is drag Serini through a tunnel with him and the portal will open for her, letting him in as well?

[Shining Wrath]

So... Depending on how the magic butt-tattoo works, might be all Xykon needs to do is drag Serini through a tunnel with him and the portal will open for her, letting him in as well?

I wonder if she even needs to be alive. Or whole - just bring her butt, leave all other parts behind.

[137beth]

The amount of detail to how the traps work we're getting in this page seems like a pretty clear indication that it's going to matter.

[Mic_128]

yeah I want to bet with you. the Snarl can't be so predictable. still I want to believe crazy theory as Laurin is the 6th gate

I dunno, the point of the gates was to seal up fractures in reality. They already said that they couldn't be moved (hence why a huge castle was built up to lock away the tiny rift that had formed up high in the sky) so having her be a gate doesn't seem to be likely, nor the slightest bit effective. You could argue she was a rift, but then the snarl should be trying to burst out of her. I suspect that she - and maybe Myron? - could end up becoming helpful at sealing the desert rift.

[elros]

That occurred to me at the time, but now that it's being brought to my attention afresh I'm wondering if the Gate is even still there. The Snarl may have broken through it already, except without the expected result of destroying the world. Yet.

Which leads to another interesting question- if the world within the rifts is new, and wasn't part of the previous cycles, what's different this time? Is this the first time anyone has tried sealing it with gates? Is the purple quib someone involved? Or have the Gods just never noticed it before because they were keeping it at a distance?

I've got to say, it's amazing how many plot threads are leading into this finale, how intertwined they all are, and how OOTs has been able to manage it's plot threads so consistently well that everyone seems to have total confidence that they'll all tie in together satisfyingly.

I predict the OOTS will see the final gate and there will be something inside it (maybe a planet or ocean), and Serini will say that was not how it was before. It will set a reveal where we learn more about the Snarl and what is beyond the gates.

[Windscion]

I predict the OOTS will see the final gate and there will be something inside it (maybe a planet or ocean), and Serini will say that was not how it was before. It will set a reveal where we learn more about the Snarl and what is beyond the gates.

Given that the snarl is a macguffin not a character (WoG), I think the gates are responsible for the planet. I have no idea how -- I would expect the gates to use the conceal and/or banish seeds, neither of which should generate a real (or illusory) planet.

[Lumix19]

Given that the snarl is a macguffin not a character (WoG), I think the gates are responsible for the planet. I have no idea how -- I would expect the gates to use the conceal and/or banish seeds, neither of which should generate a real (or illusory) planet.

I think there's a decent chance that the Snarl is responsible for the planet.

Sure it's a MacGuffin, but I interpret that as it having no agency within this story, nor really a point-of-view that is going to end up shaping the outcome of the series.

It's not an inanimate object though, or a non-sentient character (as far as we know). I imagine it can still do things, if off-screen, and it seems more likely to be doing things than an actual inanimate object (the Gates).

[Windscion]

I think there's a decent chance that the Snarl is responsible for the planet.

Sure it's a MacGuffin, but I interpret that as it having no agency within this story, nor really a point-of-view that is going to end up shaping the outcome of the series.

It's not an inanimate object though, or a non-sentient character (as far as we know). I imagine it can still do things, if off-screen, and it seems more likely to be doing things than an actual inanimate object (the Gates).

I would agree except that the snarl is a thing of chaos, and a planet is orderly (on its own scales).

Also, I came up with a theory about how the conceal seed could generate the planet: if the concealment causes the snarl to lose track of some bits, those might coalesce into something like their original form. (Normally that wouldn't work, but the snarl is ... unusual.)

[danielxcutter]

So, defaults to funniest body part? Why do I have the feeling that the butt stamp trap was the most complex* effect?

*Complex, not (necessarily) high-level or whatever. Multiple low-level spells and/or feats and stuff put together would be more complex than say, a single Meteor Swarm trap.

[Provengreil]

So... Depending on how the magic butt-tattoo works, might be all Xykon needs to do is drag Serini through a tunnel with him and the portal will open for her, letting him in as well?

As I theorized before, this is a great reason for Serini to have been so tight lipped before. If she tells the order and Xykon finds out, he's coming straight for her.

[Darkhands]

That was a lot of effort put into the comic about soup. Suspiciously a lot.

Oh man, is there still amnesia potion in that pot? Is the whole party and Serini going to lose their memories of this plan?

[The MunchKING]

That was a lot of effort put into the comic about soup. Suspiciously a lot.

Oh man, is there still amnesia potion in that pot? Is the whole party and Serini going to lose their memories of this plan?

I mean it got knocked over pretty hard. If there's any left, it's probably just a bit in the bottom that would make them forget how good the meal was or something.

[gatemansgc]

Also, Familicide is propably one of these old spells that haven't been seen in ages, or something like that. Can't imagine Haerta being a newly dead soul without anything being mentioned about it.

makes sense. who knows how long the IFCC had been sitting on those souls?

[DaOldeWolf]

Maybe the local postal service is just… Evil, or something? (Also, they apparently don't actually maintain a presence in the general area, seeing how they sent a human.)

Isnt that always the case? Between damaged and lost packages and how slow it goes. I though being evil was part of the requirement of any postal service.

Moving along, I wonder if this is set up for something else. The Malack and Durkon drinking tea while talking about religion pops to mind for some reason with this strip. It really sounds like something is being set up but I am not 100% sure what it could be.

[TuringTest]

That was a lot of effort put into the comic about soup. Suspiciously a lot.

Oh man, is there still amnesia potion in that pot? Is the whole party and Serini going to lose their memories of this plan?

Now that you mention it, Serini mentioned a cleaning wand but we didn't get to see it in panel being used in the cauldron.

It wouldn't be out of character for the Order to forget that little detail, to compensate for the consistent efficiency that they have recently demonstrated.

[Silencer]

"Lord Coccyx" is a hilarious name for a Lich

[Peelee]

Isnt that always the case? Between damaged and lost packages and how slow it goes. I though being evil was part of the requirement of any postal service.

Quite frankly, i see at least one postal service are very specifically Good.

[Provengreil]

Now that you mention it, Serini mentioned a cleaning wand but we didn't get to see it in panel being used in the cauldron.

It wouldn't be out of character for the Order to forget that little detail, to compensate for the consistent efficiency that they have recently demonstrated.

I think Belkar has the group's backs on this one. He's in full blown chef mode, an unclean cookpot is anathema to that.

[faustin]

So Serini has a non renewable supply of monsters in stasis to fill the dungeon.

Does that mean Team Evil could have exhausted such supply by sheer persistence?

[danielxcutter]

If they'd tried to, maybe. Probably not though, and Oona's already told them that the monsters come back eventually but not soon, so they wouldn't have any reason to try that.

[Wintermoot]

So Serini has a non renewable supply of monsters in stasis to fill the dungeon.

Does that mean Team Evil could have exhausted such supply by sheer persistence?

that's not what is happening.

the Monsters frozen in stasis in the final dungeon have been there from the beginning and remain there.

The "refilling" of the outer dungeons are done with external assets. We see Serini recruiting some in an earlier strip.

[brian 333]

Man, people with cold resistance must be pretty expensive if they send someone who would freeze to death before they'd hire one of them.

The postmaster had an in-law looking for a job, and it is well known that someone has to die before a position in civil service opens up.

[Metastachydium]

Isnt that always the case? Between damaged and lost packages and how slow it goes. I though being evil was part of the requirement of any postal service.

The postmaster had an in-law looking for a job, and it is well known that someone has to die before a position in civil service opens up.

Heh. These ones get it.

that's not what is happening.

the Monsters frozen in stasis in the final dungeon have been there from the beginning and remain there.

The "refilling" of the outer dungeons are done with external assets. We see Serini recruiting some in an earlier strip.

I wonder how that was supposed to work out while the plan was still Serini walking the earth, free of earthly cares and troll flesh grafts.

[littlebum2002]

I don't think even knowing what was happening as it happened would have helped the Draketeeth. And the Sapphire Guard had pretty good modern intel.

Having people who weren't Draketeeth guarding the pyramid would have helped, though.

[Wintermoot]

I wonder how that was supposed to work out while the plan was still Serini walking the earth, free of earthly cares and troll flesh grafts.

One can "walk the earth, free of earthly cares" and still check in periodically to see if the tomb needs restocking. They are not mutually exclusive. I work Monday to Friday, but Weekends? Weekends are allllll Wintermoot-time.

Besides, we see her having a Purple Worm delivered in the crayons of time, so there is apparently contractors you can use to purchase stock if you don't want to get them yourself.

Shop Smart. Shop S-monster-Mart.

[faustin]

One can "walk the earth, free of earthly cares" and still check in periodically to see if the tomb needs restocking. They are not mutually exclusive. I work Monday to Friday, but Weekends? Weekends are allllll Wintermoot-time.

Besides, we see her having a Purple Worm delivered in the crayons of time, so there is apparently contractors you can use to purchase stock if you don't want to get them yourself.

Shop Smart. Shop S-monster-Mart.

Do dungeon contractors exist in the Stickverse? Because that should be a very lucrative market.

[BloodSquirrel]

Having people who weren't Draketeeth guarding the pyramid would have helped, though.

Only due to a very unforeseeable contingency that specifically targeted their bloodline.

Otherwise, it was a flawed, but not totally logically unreasonable security measure. I find it kind of funny how people try to credit Serini for being a genius for maintaining operational secrecy in ways that made no sense and very, very predictably proved counter-productive, but never give the rest of the Scribblers credit for their far-more effective measures to maintain secrecy (Cloister, the SG, pretty much everything Draketooth did).

Going all-in on obscurity wasn't a bad plan. Yeah, it had its weaknesses, and Girard's supposition that family was fundamentally more trustworthy than hand-picking honorable paladins was flawed. But given how Xykon has been able to break all of the other gates' defenses (except for Dorukan's glyph) given enough time, it's completely reasonable to suppose that preventing him from finding the gate in the first place was a better defensive measure than just throwing a bunch of monsters at him. Meanwhile, a lot of other security measures that he could have used might have compromised said obscurity. Having more people involved means having more people who can talk. Having additional spells/structures creates additional dependencies that require maintenance that could be tracked back to you. Having a larger temple to accommodate more monsters and traps would make hiding it with illusions harder. And all of the resources needed to maintain those would have had to come out of the budget being used for the illusions. And it's also reasonable to point out that Xykon only found the other gates in the first place because of Serini's journal, so it wasn't a family member who ultimately failed him.

But to get back to the original point- the fundamental weakness of all of the gates' defenses was that the Scribblers over-relied on their specialty because they couldn't work with each other. But that's subtly different from leaning into your strongest suit when you're an epic spellcaster and every other option you have available would be an order of magnitude less powerful. Most of the gates' defenses were still very, very good, and the flaw that allowed Xykon to crack them was a tragic flaw that he had to work to exploit, not just some obvious gaping hole. Working together might have made them even better, but there's a big difference between Dorukan putting his glyph on all of the gates and Girard hiring a mid-tier wizard to try to do the same.

[Peelee]

Having people who weren't Draketeeth guarding the pyramid would have helped, though.

Sure, but that's not an intel problem.

[Provengreil]

Do dungeon contractors exist in the Stickverse? Because that should be a very lucrative market.

I'm quite sure there's a thriving grey market dungeon industry in such a rules-aware universe. Miners, builders, enchanters, trappers, monster ranchers...You'd find someone if you knew what shadows to ask.