What settings/genres are ripe for a new successful RPG?

[Mordante]

of the things you wish these are what I know already exist:

Urban Fantasy:
Dresden Files Rpg Exists

"Dieselpunk":
Spirit of the Century exists

Pixies and Fairies:
Fairies A roleplaying game exists

Anthropomorphic animals:
Jadeclaw, Iron Claw, Pugmire, Monarchies of Mau all exist

I'm pretty sure I've seen a lot of spy rpgs on drivethrurpg, and thing is a lot of your "modern" genre stuff you want is covered already by something like Spirit of the Century or any other rpg doing general modern stuff, because spy or cop on its own is simply too niche to attract people, because the way DnD works and especially indie rpgs that try to do more with less? is that something like a spy or a police officer or whatever is just one archetype, much like how a thief or a warrior is one archetype. similarly "me and my dragon" is more of a class or subclass than something you dedicate an entire rpg to, if that makes sense, because its one archetype in a general fantasy world for people to play in.

Is the Dresden files RPG any good?

[Lord Raziere]

Is the Dresden files RPG any good?

I certainly think so, but I like Fate system in general. for you, it depends how much you like or understand the aspects/fate point stuff and thus the narrative stuff it does, working very differently from something like DnD. which is something only you can decide for yourself by checking and/or trying it out.

[MrStabby]

This one would be really cool if it wasn't just a D&D clone for classes. Ie not 4 classes of warrior guy, offensive spell guy, healer/warrior guy, and sneaky/trap lock guy.

Of course, this has been attempted many many times in a variety of formats, to one degree of success or another. For some very not-D&D-clone attempts: Dungeon World, Torchbearer, Blades in the Dark, and Forbidden Lands.

Ah, thanks. I have heard of each of these but never played. I should look into them.

[Quertus]

Maybe if you allow the PCs to alter the rules of the game,

That reminds me of my initial answer to the question, that I keep forgetting: with all the people mistaking the arts of common Wizards for “changing the rules of reality”, it feels like the market is ripe for a new system where characters actually change the rules of their reality.

EDIT: I’m not sure incorporating that into an Isekai RPG is necessary, but it is an interesting idea.

[Pauly]

That reminds me of my initial answer to the question, that I keep forgetting: with all the people mistaking the arts of common Wizards for “changing the rules of reality”, it feels like the market is ripe for a new system where characters actually change the rules of their reality.

EDIT: I’m not sure incorporating that into an Isekai RPG is necessary, but it is an interesting idea.

In some ways that concept interests me more than having house rules or campaign rules which are set by the GM with or without player input.

In the same vein the GM may also be required to spend an in game resource to make their own alterations to the game rules.

There probably be some kind of Calvinball rider to prevent players and GMs just cancelling each other’s rules changes.

[LibraryOgre]

It wasn't really "each person" though. Just "the party decker". But yeah. We'd literally all walk out of the room and go eat food, hang out, watch some TV, etc, while the one player was "doing their thing".

Mages, too, can wind up in this, though they're not as bad.

[gbaji]

Mages, too, can wind up in this, though they're not as bad.

Well. I think any type of character can wind up in this. Sometimes, it's the party face taking one on one time too. But that sort of "off table but sometimes on table" stuff can happen in any game system as the game is played. SR's decker's though, are pretty unique in that their one "niche thing" literally requires that it often be resolved during game play while everyone else waits. There's an entire mini-game related to hacking that both takes real table time *and* takes very little (more or less zero) time in the game. So yeah, you can literally be in the middle of the party fighting its way through some corp defenses, get to a security block, and then everything stops while the decker player and GM roleplay out the session of the security system hack. And sure, you could handwave that away or shorten it, but it's literally what deckers do in that game, so taking it away takes away their entire purpose as a character. Not playing it out is like just having everyone roll a "combat" skill and decide "you beat the other guys, here's your prize" instead of putting out minis, drawing the rooms, and actually playing out the combat using the items and skills the PCs have written on their sheets.

On the one hand, it's a plus for the game in that they actually went to the trouble of building an entire extra combat(ish) system for managing deckers and hacks. And frankly, it's why folks play deckers. They want to play through a hack. But on the flip side? Yeah. Everyone else waiting. It was the one aspect of that game that we just never found any good way around. You try to do whatever hacking off table that you can, but you just can't eliminate it entirely. And unfortunately, if you wanted to actually be good at hacking, you really had to focus skills and gear in that direction, which meant not a lot left over for being very useful at anything else.

Riggers were another class that was tricky. But usually enough stuff happened out on the streets that they at least got some action. Enough that the fact that they were pretty gimped when not operating their vehicles was usually made up for by the pretty massive amount of extra stuff available when they were. I fondly remember the scooby van complete with sensor package and rocket launcher on the roof. Good times!

[vasilidor]

Shadowrun did not originally have niche protection. That was built into it later and the game suffered as a result.

Spoiler: not really on topic

Show

I would like to see more characters sporting trodes and going into the matrix that way. Using slow systems with high end sleaze and masking. Things are actually more affordable when you don't have high end response increases. But 5th & 6th edition of that game said no. They invented new niche protection for certain archetypes while making those archetypes hard to play at best, a mistake to play at worst.
2e Shadowrun is about the best version of the game, if you use 3e magic initiation rules.

Having a system that allows you to progress outside the initial niche your character starts in is not a bad thing, especially if the characters do not suffer from trying to diversify. Being able to learn new skills is a very real thing and I often find D&Ds attempts at trying to force hyper specialization disconcerting and immersion breaking. Niche protection just needs to go away.

[Pauly]

Interesting topic and one that needs better discussion. Here are some general thoughts:

- A game that focuses on Fairy Tales/Fables with a mix of humans and animal characters available could be cool.

- Something with an Ancient History bend like Greek Heroes of Myth, Early Imperial of Republican Rome, or something set in a time frame we do not hear too much about, like Napoleonic Europe and the Med could be fun or pre-WWI European spies.

Honestly, I feel like Urban Fantasy, Sword and Sorcery, Weird Wild West, Supers, Moderns, and Weird World War II is pretty well represented

For ancient history it’s been tried and failed as a TTRPG many times. Maybe if you go God of War style and be inspired by ancient history/mythology but isn’t that close maybe you could create something that gets a following. Me, I’d be happy getting into a historical game of political intrigue set in the time of the Marian/Sulla wars but I’ve never been able to get anyone else enthused about that campaign.

About the only historical genre that gets any traction is three musketeers/golden age of piracy, and even then it’s much more the game which gives a twist to the movie of the novel of the history.

I think urban fantasy and moderns are available providing that a compelling and coherent setting is written. A lot of the modern/near future stuff is under written and the urban fantasy ends up being incoherent because they try to put too much stuff in.

[Satinavian]

SR tries every single edition to completely rework the Matrix rules and make them fun. It never worked, but the issue surely was recognized.

As for mages, only astral projection is an issue. Personally i would get rd of it altogether as it is too powerful as well as it is not plausible for most antagonists to have a proper defense against it. Astral perception is good enough

But niche protection ? Nearly every single SR character i know is a hybrid and i have seen and even played every single common role as part of a hybrid. The system itself does not force niche protection all that much. It's all expectations and tropes.

[Pauly]

On the issue of Shadowrun.
It’s long been recognized that the rules and gameplay are a bit of a mess.
The genre it's going for [blend of cyberpunk and fantasy] is far from a mainstream.
So why is it popular and enduring?
For me it comes down to the excellent writing to create the setting and the very cool artwork which combine to create an extremely compelling environment to RP in.

[Easy e]

For ancient history it’s been tried and failed as a TTRPG many times. Maybe if you go God of War style and be inspired by ancient history/mythology but isn’t that close maybe you could create something that gets a following. Me, I’d be happy getting into a historical game of political intrigue set in the time of the Marian/Sulla wars but I’ve never been able to get anyone else enthused about that campaign.

About the only historical genre that gets any traction is three musketeers/golden age of piracy, and even then it’s much more the game which gives a twist to the movie of the novel of the history.

Yeah I was thinking more Mythological Ancient History or Fantasy History. From a wargaming perspective I was thinking a theme like Broken Legions only as an RPG....

https://ospreypublishing.com/us/brok...9781472815132/

The Roman Empire rules the civilized world with an iron fist, seemingly all-powerful and limitless. And yet the power of Rome is secured not by its mighty legions but by small bands of warriors and agents fighting a secret war. Tasked by the Emperor to explore ancient temples, forgotten labyrinths, and beast-haunted caverns, they seek out artifacts hidden by the gods themselves, hunt creatures of myth, and face enemies that would use dark magic against the empire.

I think another RPG example could be Osprey Games Jackals. It is a Bronze Age skin with a Fantasy Historical setting. However, it is drawing from some Historical detail for a completely fantasy setting. So basically a twist like we see for Musketeer style games or for Pendragon style games.

[gbaji]

Shadowrun did not originally have niche protection. That was built into it later and the game suffered as a result.

Spoiler: not really on topic

Show

I would like to see more characters sporting trodes and going into the matrix that way. Using slow systems with high end sleaze and masking. Things are actually more affordable when you don't have high end response increases. But 5th & 6th edition of that game said no. They invented new niche protection for certain archetypes while making those archetypes hard to play at best, a mistake to play at worst.
2e Shadowrun is about the best version of the game, if you use 3e magic initiation rules.

Ok. I think we mostly played 2nd/3rd edition (I don't remember edition numbers, but I do remember something coming out that significantly expanded on the magic rules, so I'm guessing that was 3rd?). So that may explain my slightly different perception of the game with regards to niche protection. Wasn't aware that they cranked that up to 11 later on.

On the issue of Shadowrun.
It’s long been recognized that the rules and gameplay are a bit of a mess.
The genre it's going for [blend of cyberpunk and fantasy] is far from a mainstream.
So why is it popular and enduring?
For me it comes down to the excellent writing to create the setting and the very cool artwork which combine to create an extremely compelling environment to RP in.

Honestly? For us, it was "Cyberpunk with magic and fantasy races". We played Cyberpunk previously (cause hey, who's not a fan of Gibson?). That game system had some serious problems though (which, honestly, I can't recall the details of, except that it had problems). When SR came out, we tried it out and were like "Huh. This is like 10x better and more fun". The skill/point advancement system was something relatively newish, so it was interesting as well (and actually worked). And the whole dice pools and target numbers dynamic was also somewhat new and interesting (and also worked). So yeah. It was a nice departure from "D&D clone with a different setting and slightly different rules" that was most games up to that point.


Oh. I suppose I should actually comment on the topic. Kinda agree on the whole "ancient/classic world" bit. I've seen it tried many many times. Not sure if I've ever seen one really take off though. It's a genre that *could* be interesting and exicting though.

I've also got a bit of a soft spot for "pre-history" (or "really really early history") type settings. Also haven't seen this really pulled off well though. But the idea of powerful gods (maybe take Gaiman's concept of gods and apply it here), and heroes, but in a world where the unknown is literally right there over the next hill. You can run Conan type stories, where adventures are running into the next city-state, with stuff that's maybe completely different from anywhere you've been previously. Unfortunately, every time I've seen this run outside of shortish campaigns, it does tend to devolve into a more stock fantasy setting over time. I just think that players are naturally "wired" towards world connectivity. They want to travel back and forth, and revisit places they've been and people they've seen (which makes a lot of sense really). So yeah. Tough setting to pull off well. But it can give a "sky's the limit" feel.

Not a huge fan of near-current or near-future stuff. Just too hard to keep fantasy and reality separate. And usually the game rules will never simulate a world that the players are familiar with very well. Which yeah, means game rules don't really simulate any world well, but the more familiar you are with what a real world in that genre looks like, the more aware of this you are.

Somewhat farther future works for me. I could see playing in an Expanse setting. Which, you know, makes sense given the source.

[vasilidor]

Spoiler: more complaining about shadowrun changes

Show

Early Shadowrun had the lore defined by the rules.
Street Samurai were scary because of how the rules worked.
Recent/new Shadowrun fails to emulate its own lore.
Street Samurai are now a joke because decker goes brrrr.
But you could have functioning multirole characters in the early editions.

The reason Shadowrun stuck around as long as it has is because of the good world building it started with. the 2050's to 2060's being about the most fun time to play in as far as world building goes for it. High fantasy blended near seamlessly with cyberpunk both in how the rules work and the lore.

[Sparky McDibben]

I recently discovered "flintlock fantasy" here: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...ure-for-dnd-5e

Their core rules are pretty interesting. You can also run the whole thing without fantastical options, too, for a straight historical experience.

[Pauly]

I recently discovered "flintlock fantasy" here: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...ure-for-dnd-5e

Their core rules are pretty interesting. You can also run the whole thing without fantastical options, too, for a straight historical experience.

The Flintloque wargame by Alternative Armies is the base I’d run off. There are some very nice miniatures and a an interesting enough backstory that matches the fabtasy races to the real life combatants.

[Sparky McDibben]

The Flintloque wargame by Alternative Armies is the base I’d run off. There are some very nice miniatures and a an interesting enough backstory that matches the fabtasy races to the real life combatants.

That sounds a little fraught if we're saying orcs = native Americans. Hopefully that's not the case. Furthermore, I'd argue that war games <> roleplaying games, and part of the fun of historical RP is getting to actually roleplay, not just fight.

[Pauly]

That sounds a little fraught if we're saying orcs = native Americans. Hopefully that's not the case. Furthermore, I'd argue that war games <> roleplaying games, and part of the fun of historical RP is getting to actually roleplay, not just fight.

The Austrians are gnolls (dogmen) as Napoleon famously referred to Austrians as dog-soldiers, well at least before Aspern-Essling.
The Prussians are dwarves, which fits the Nibelungenlied.
French are Elves, Spanish are Dark Elves (elves with suntans)
That kind of thing.

[False God]

That sounds a little fraught if we're saying orcs = native Americans. Hopefully that's not the case. Furthermore, I'd argue that war games <> roleplaying games, and part of the fun of historical RP is getting to actually roleplay, not just fight.

There's nothing functionally wrong with replacing IRL cultures and people with fantasy ones, provided that they're given fair treatment. If the Indigenous People are replaced with orcs because every time you turn around some human race has been replaced with some other fantasy race, then the key is proper representation.

If they're not human in order to justify violence against them by predominantly white European humans, yeah, you've got a problem.

If they're not human but they still retain defining cultures, traits, and behaviours that make them identifiably "human" and the game leaves the justification of violence up to the viewer then you don't have a problem.

"Dragons Conquer America" is a good example of pulling this off. Its also important that the game allows you to play both the invaders and the locals. It's often easy to fall into the trap of "the non-humans only exist to be killed" when the game only allows you to play one(usually the white, European human) faction.

[Sparky McDibben]

The Austrians are gnolls (dogmen) as Napoleon famously referred to Austrians as dog-soldiers, well at least before Aspern-Essling.
The Prussians are dwarves, which fits the Nibelungenlied.
French are Elves, Spanish are Dark Elves (elves with suntans)
That kind of thing.

There's nothing functionally wrong with replacing IRL cultures and people with fantasy ones, provided that they're given fair treatment. If the Indigenous People are replaced with orcs because every time you turn around some human race has been replaced with some other fantasy race, then the key is proper representation.

If they're not human in order to justify violence against them by predominantly white European humans, yeah, you've got a problem.

If they're not human but they still retain defining cultures, traits, and behaviours that make them identifiably "human" and the game leaves the justification of violence up to the viewer then you don't have a problem.

"Dragons Conquer America" is a good example of pulling this off. Its also important that the game allows you to play both the invaders and the locals. It's often easy to fall into the trap of "the non-humans only exist to be killed" when the game only allows you to play one(usually the white, European human) faction.

I don't necessarily agree here, but I also don't want to derail this topic with "problematic." I'll just take y'all's points and drop the matter. Thanks for the feedback, and thanks for the civility!

[Pauly]

Inspired by another thread.
There apparently is a market for solo/1 player 1 DM games.

I think a “spymaster” either cold war era or maybe some sci-fi or fantasy universe could satisfy.

Basically the game would be the director of the black ops of a small to medium power and the player would be tasked with. The resources would be 2 to 3 operatives and then your relationships with other departments (Internal security, diplomatic service, army intelligence, navy intelligence, air force intelligence, special forces military, counterparts in other country’s spy services, rival departments within your spy agency, etc.
Challenges include
- Choosing which operative(s) to send or to rely on normal field agents.
- maintaining a reserve to respond to emergencies.
- planning missions
- fending off pressure from other departments to run operations.
- gaining influence/favors by running missions for other entities
- choosing which other agencies to bring in
- dealing with counter-intelligence from the enemies.
- keeping your operatives happy and willing to do the dirty job someone has to
- finding a replacement for any lost operatives

The reason for setting in a lesser power is that resources are limited and the number of relationships to keep track is manageable.

[SimonMoon6]

Well if we go back to the grandaddy of isekai - A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur’s Court, - the other problem is how do you stop modern knowledge overpowering and overrunning the setting?

Well, in that story, there was no magic. In D&D games, guns are usually way weaker than fireballs, so it doesn't make much sense to bother trying to invent gunpowder and guns and bombs when a fireball is way more effective. I mean, the one advantage is that mundane humans can use guns and stuff whereas only wizards (etc) can use fireballs, but one solution is to do silly Starfinder stuff like "Oh, sorry, that's a level 12 bomb and you're only 1st level, so you can't use it, even if the basic mechanics behind the bomb are the same as a level 1 bomb. Inexplicably, this bomb just doesn't work for you." (At least that's what I've heard Starfinder is like; I haven't actually read the rules.)

Re Isekai. As previously pointed out I think the main problem is not so much character creation, but what happens once the character is in world.

I have run manyself-insert games. I have also played in a few (but the ones I played in never lasted very long). Generally, I have found little problem with the game itself. The PCs are stuck in a world where the rules are different from what they know. Perhaps gunpowder doesn't even work in this world. It's not the real world after all. Try all the science you like, it's not gonna work. That's why everyone uses magic.

If this then seems like just another fantasy game with no isekai elements, keep in mind a few things: First, there is motivation. Self-insert PCs have different motivations than generic PCs, so that leads the game into different territories. Most noticeably with self-insert PCs, characters end up considering morality quite a bit more and can often disagree quite strongly. It's one thing for Blandy McBland the paladin to kill goblin babies for the greater good, but would RealWorld Guy kill them?

Also, a big thing that I don't see addressed is that self-insert PCs often (but not always) want to get back to the real world. So, that's a motivation that's unlike regular PCs. And then, we need to have questions like "Is it possible to get back to the real world and what are the rules behind doing so?" or "Does the story end when the PCs get back to the real world?"

For example, one such game that I was running in 3.0 (when it was new) was going to build up to a demon lord finding out about the "real world" that the PCs came from. He was going to invade with a huge army of demons who would mostly be immune to the mundane damage of the Earth's military might. Only the PCs stood any chance of their saving the real world from a demon invasion.

Basically, I see self-insert games as just a smaller less interesting version of a plane-hopping multiversal TORG style game (it doesn't have to have a full invasion like in TORG, but to be able to go to worlds with different rules is a big deal. And yes, TORG doesn't let the PCs do a lot of plane-hopping but that's because the other realities have come to Earth, so their rules are in various parts of Earth already.)

So, that's what I think the RPG market lacks. A *good* (so, for example, not RIFTS or GURPS) game that can handle different realities with different rules structures where things that work in one world will not work in another. And it needs to cover ways to travel between the various worlds.
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[Maat Mons]

Actually, in Starfinder, you can use items of any level. It's just that NPC vendors can sense your character level, and will refuse to sell you anything that's too high level for you.

Spoiler: From Starfinder SRD

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In Starfinder, all armor, equipment, and weapons (whether magic, technological, or hybrid) are assigned an item level. While characters can utilize items of any level, Game Masters should keep in mind that allowing characters access to items far above their current level may imbalance the game.

An object’s item level represents the scarcity and value of the technology and/or magic employed in its construction—higher-level items generally incorporate more advanced technology or mystical forces. An object’s item level also determines its hardness and Hit Points (see Breaking Objects on page 409) and is an indicator of the level at which a character should typically expect to both have access to the item and be able to craft it (see Crafting Equipment and Magic Items on page 235).

Item level also helps convey the fact that buying equipment is more involved than just placing an order. Even finding the items you desire isn’t always easy, and those who have access to things such as powerful weapons and armor tend to deal only with people they trust. Legitimate vendors don’t want to get reputations for selling hardware to pirates or criminals, and even criminal networks must be careful with whom they do business.

Rather than meticulously track every arms dealer, contact, guild, and license a character has access to, the game assumes that in typical settlements you can find and purchase anything with an item level no greater than your character level + 1, and at major settlements items up to your character level + 2. The GM can restrict access to some items (even those of an appropriate level) or make items of a higher level available for purchase (possibly at a greatly increased price or in return for a favor done for the seller).

[Sapphire Guard]

I wonder how useful ordinary person future knowledge would be. How much of it is dependent on things you either don't know how to make, can't do yourself, or materials that have to be sent from unfeasibly far away?

No idea how to do this mechanically, but it would be interesting to see someone try and do the thing where seers are trying to alter the timeline against either each other or fate? You have to find the right places to apply the butterfly effect to get the changes you want, and stop other entities from doing the same thing to you.