A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #211
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    Default Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tubercular Ox View Post
    Tarquin, Ian, and everyone else associated with Elan's plan to defeat Tarquin is going to miraculously appear in a way that screws the pooch and everyone is going to get segregated into plot-sized chunks.

    The plot-sized chunks, where necessary, will be forced to cooperate because of the hostility of the Final Dungeon.

    Team Negotiator: Redcloak, Durkon, Minrah, and Belkar. Belkar is going to break the ice with Redcloak the same way he broke it with Serini. Worlds will be saved.

    Team This Is Your Life: Monster in the Dark, Oona, Greyview, O-Chul, Lien. The Monster in the Dark's allegiance will go on trial. O-Chul is the prosecution, Oona is the defense. I expect O-Chul to win, but subversion is a heavy possibility here.

    Team Odd Couple: Xykon and the Quinton will be together long enough for a few jokes and then Xykon will kick the dog somehow by killing the Quinton.

    Team Oh Shoot, I Think I'm Out of Scrabble Tiles: V and Tarquin will be together. V will be called away. Sabine will agree to free V from the comfy chair if V kills Tarquin. V will kill Tarquin and then be dragged away for V's third timeout. The power of Lawful Evil will prevent the fiends from compelling V to finish the timeout he escaped. V will return in the nick of time. We will find out whether Outsiders are absorbed into their plane or regenerated somewhere else after losing all their hit points.

    The story from this point will be a race for the gate where everyone is absolutely convinced they have to keep moving to accomplish their objectives.
    I don't see Roy on any of those teams, nor Haley. Might want to rethink this one.
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  2. - Top - End - #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    I don't see Roy on any of those teams, nor Haley.
    Of course not. They'll be off making all those children you predicted they'll have together.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tubercular Ox View Post
    I'll give you a zyqxuwy if none of them come true.
    And then I'll do what, exactly? Hit you with that ffffish?

  3. - Top - End - #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    I don't see Roy on any of those teams, nor Haley. Might want to rethink this one.
    I'm not predicting that those are the only teams. Of the remaining teams, one has V in it and the others don't. That's going to dictate the kind of story they have.

    Roy is going to be there when Xykon is defeated and has a better chance of getting catharsis out of it if V isn't there. OTOH, taking down Xykon is one day V can save after coming out of the comfy chair. Haley is going to be near Elan. I would say Elan is going to be near Tarquin, but Tarquin is an extreme value bet so I don't want to hitch any more to it.

    Serini, Sunny, and Mimi are ciphers. No idea what they're going to do.

    None of this is static. It's going to be like BRITF where teeny tiny groups meet up and separate, meet up and separate. If this is an actual bet instead of just getting a load off my mind, I would say each team existing for any length of time is a win for me, whether or not any of the other teams exist at the same time.
    Spoiler: The Monster in the Dark is a part of the story
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  4. - Top - End - #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubercular Ox View Post
    None of this is static. It's going to be like BRITF where teeny tiny groups meet up and separate, meet up and separate. If this is an actual bet instead of just getting a load off my mind, I would say each team existing for any length of time is a win for me, whether or not any of the other teams exist at the same time.
    Now that would be a bet too vague to consider taking even if it was in gold. Do you declare victory if there's one strip in which the only characters are the creature in the darkness, Oona, Greyview, O-Chul, and Lien? If there's one panel in which those characters all appear and no others do?

  5. - Top - End - #215
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    I will take any bet that violates, 'Tarquin never appears on panel in this comic again.'

    One 1984 (authentic, {scrubbed}!) Internet, and twenty quatloos says that we never see Tarquin on page again.

    Reason: he already got his ending. Elan said he does not matter any more. The story is not, nor has it ever been, about Tarquin and the Vector Legion.

    I'm going to bed we see the winged buffalo before we see Tarquin again.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2023-05-25 at 02:57 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #216
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    Default Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)

    Quote Originally Posted by brian 333 View Post
    Reason: he already got his ending. Elan said he does not matter any more. The story is not, nor has it ever been, about Tarquin and the Vector Legion.
    I wonder where Elan said this. I've looked back over the last pages of BRITF without finding it. And in #938 Elan seems to be pretty clear that Tarquin, and more specifically the situation of the people under his tyranny, does matter.

    It's just that stopping Xykon is the main plot, and Tarquin isn't part of that any more.

    But I absolutely expect that by the end, we'll find out what happens to Tarquin and co. (And this is a serious prediction; I don't want to be ignored just because I made a silly joke prediction a few pages back.)

    I am baffled by the number of people who say "we definitely won't see Tarquin ever again because STORY STRUCTURE!" The lesson Elan learned in BRITF, stated clearly in #938, is that people matter more than story structure. And Rich has set things up so that we, his readers, care about the fate of those people.

  7. - Top - End - #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    Of course not. They'll be off making all those children you predicted they'll have together.
    Works for me. Their kids will be both smart and good looking, strong and dexterous.
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2023-05-25 at 08:06 PM.
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    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct!
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  8. - Top - End - #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    Now that would be a bet too vague to consider taking even if it was in gold. Do you declare victory if there's one strip in which the only characters are the creature in the darkness, Oona, Greyview, O-Chul, and Lien? If there's one panel in which those characters all appear and no others do?
    I'm sorry, I meant the whole paragraph to be meta, but we can turn it into a bet: There will be at least one "scene" where two characters get together for one exchange, then separate again, similar to the scene with Belkar, V, and Bugsby's cat-retrieving hand. I put scene in quotes because it's intentionally vague, but a single strip unquestionably counts.

    Spoiler: This is gold, can I bet it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir_Norbert View Post
    I wonder where Elan said this. I've looked back over the last pages of BRITF without finding it. And in #938 Elan seems to be pretty clear that Tarquin, and more specifically the situation of the people under his tyranny, does matter.
    You also have the last author's note in Utterly Dwarfed:
    Quote Originally Posted by Utterly Dwarfed R9-B
    Everything thatís going to happen will happen in the next book. This is it. The finale. The end of the story. Will Xykon be defeated? What happens with the Snarl? Or the Godsmoot? Will Durkon persuade Redcloak? What are those three fiends up to? Whatís Belkarís final fate? What exactly is the Monster in the Darkness? What just happened to O-Chul and Lien? What is Elanís secret plan to defeat Tarquin? When will Vaarsuviusí remaining time in the Lower Planes be used? Which obscure things that youíve forgotten about will end up being crucial to the resolution? Which seemingly important things will turn out to be deliberate feints that donít matter at all? Who lives happily ever after? Who dies happily ever after? Is there objective meaning to our lives or do we construct that meaning from the stories that we tell and are told? How many pages can actually fit in a perfect binding paperback, anyway?

    Thatís a lot of questions, and a big part of how I approach the next book is going to be determined by the need to fit all of those answers into a story that is nonetheless fun and exciting and means something.
    I quote the whole thing because it's important context for understanding the bold part. It makes me bite my nails and I definitely would not have mentioned Tarquin without it.
    Spoiler: The Monster in the Dark is a part of the story
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  9. - Top - End - #219
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    Default Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tubercular Ox View Post
    Spoiler: This is gold, can I bet it?
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    Yes, you can bet Monopoly Money. I'm not sure of its exchange rate versus gps, quatloos, or any other imaginary currency.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tubercular Ox View Post
    You also have the last author's note in Utterly Dwarfed:
    I quote the whole thing because it's important context for understanding the bold part. It makes me bite my nails and I definitely would not have mentioned Tarquin without it.
    The author specifically asks which questions will be answered and which will not. I believe Tarquin's horrible ending was his final appearance in the comic. I could be wrong. Want to bet that picture of play-money against my imaginary currency on it?

  10. - Top - End - #220
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    There are certainly ways Tarquin's story could be resolved without him ever appearing on the page again. There are extremely many ways Tarquin's story could be resolved without him coming back to screw up the main plot. Frankly, the nature of Tarquin's role in the story, vs. what he thinks is his role in the story, demands narratively that he not be able to affect the main plot again.

  11. - Top - End - #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by brian 333 View Post
    The author specifically asks which questions will be answered and which will not. I believe Tarquin's horrible ending was his final appearance in the comic. I could be wrong. Want to bet that picture of play-money against my imaginary currency on it?
    Absolutely!

    In the last sentence, he mentions "the need to fit all of those answers into a story," but I highly doubt the question about how many pages fit into a perfect binding is actually going to be answered, even though it does have an answer you can look up. He mentions seemingly important things that don't matter, but also crucial things you've forgotten about. Elan's plan is after what happened to O-Chul and Lien, but before Vaarsuvius' time in the lower planes.

    I'm not pretending there's anything obvious in that, just explaining why I bite my nails.
    Spoiler: The Monster in the Dark is a part of the story
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  12. - Top - End - #222
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    I bite my nails too, but that's because those nail clippers keep breaking.

    Tha Author is well able to tell his story his way, and narrative conventions be damned, but I thought Tarquin's last appearance was the perfect ending for the character. At that point Elan came to terms with the fact that Tarquin would never be the father he fantasized about, and that Tarquin was not important to the quest. He left the resolution of the Evil Empires' subplot to the characters involved in that subplot and moved on.

    Tarquin only ever existed in the story to give Elan a way to demonstrate his character development. For Elan to go back and have to do it all over again would serve no purpose, except perhaps to show that Elan really really meant it when he grew up. Oh, wait, we already saw that in the double-fantasy scene.

    So, I bet 20 internets against a digital picture of a Monopoly $500 that Tarquin will not be seen on page again, except as a flashback as told by one of the Sandsedge crew about his defeat.

    Edit: and now I realize this post virtually guarantees that Tarquin will become The Vessel that Sabine is retrieving. Crap.

  13. - Top - End - #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    Frankly, the nature of Tarquin's role in the story, vs. what he thinks is his role in the story, demands narratively that he not be able to affect the main plot again.
    Leaping on board this bandwagon.
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  14. - Top - End - #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by brian 333 View Post
    Tha Author is well able to tell his story his way, and narrative conventions be damned,
    Apropos of nothing, I feel like everything I predict counts as an expectation at best, and something that would not surprise me at worst, and when authors intend to subvert expectations, they still need to set them first. I really wish there were a way to permanently say I am not trying to outsmart Rich, I am trying to let Rich outsmart me.

    Quote Originally Posted by brian 333 View Post
    Edit: and now I realize this post virtually guarantees that Tarquin will become The Vessel that Sabine is retrieving. Crap.
    The up side of not reading closely is that I can re-read the strip any number of times and still enjoy it. The down side is stuff like this.

    If it makes you feel better, this could wreck an earlier bet. If Tarquin gets taken to Hell, Sabine, V, and Tarquin can interact without Tarquin visiting the Final Dungeon, and Sabine releasing V for vengeance on Tarquin is what I'm really after.

    EDIT: I've got more.

    One Reading Railroad says Roy and Haley will fight the Monster in the Dark, then refuse to fight the Monster in the Dark, because it is a child.

    I'll bet Baltic Avenue on Belkar sacrificing himself for the greater good, getting shuffled into a decent afterlife under the Darth Vader rule, then refusing to be resurrected because he would have to live up to his alleged character growth if he went back, and it wouldn't be guaranteed he can return to the tolerable afterlife.

    I'm also extremely attracted to the idea that Belkar gets eaten by the Snarl, but no bet.

    And I've got Broadway and Park Place on Kraagor's Gate being a circle or pattern on the ground.
    Last edited by Tubercular Ox; 2023-05-26 at 10:35 PM.
    Spoiler: The Monster in the Dark is a part of the story
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    It haunts the dark places of the universe, from which it is called up at the whim of its lord to hunt down any who have offended him.
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  15. - Top - End - #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubercular Ox View Post
    I'm also extremely attracted to the idea that Belkar gets eaten by the Snarl, but no bet.
    Kraagor did, so why not Belkar?
    And I've got Broadway and Park Place on Kraagor's Gate being a circle or pattern on the ground.
    Like what Redcloak stepped over a few strips ago? (Panel 5)
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    Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
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    Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct!
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  16. - Top - End - #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubercular Ox View Post
    I'll bet Baltic Avenue on Belkar sacrificing himself for the greater good, getting shuffled into a decent afterlife under the Darth Vader rule, then refusing to be resurrected because he would have to live up to his alleged character growth if he went back, and it wouldn't be guaranteed he can return to the tolerable afterlife.
    Baltic's one of the cheap ones, right? If all conditions have to be met, I'll take that, since I don't think Belkar will have the opportunity to be resurrected. Possibly because...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tubercular Ox View Post
    Belkar gets eaten by the Snarl
    Quote Originally Posted by Tubercular Ox View Post
    And I've got Broadway and Park Place on Kraagor's Gate being a circle or pattern on the ground.
    While it's just a story and may not be accurate, what little we've seen of the rift there indicates a vertical rift, and the gate has to be built around the rift, so I'm comfortable taking that bet.

  17. - Top - End - #227
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    I'll bet that we don't see Belkar's afterlife at all, regardless of how he kicks it.
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  18. - Top - End - #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    I'll bet that we don't see Belkar's afterlife at all, regardless of how he kicks it.
    I back that bet with a wooden 10 army piece from Risk. It is sitting on Siam, so I bet Siam that he dies doing the right thing for the right reason and it doesn't occur to him he could have avoided doing it

  19. - Top - End - #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Kraagor did, so why not Belkar?
    If I bet every idea I had, we'd be here forever and most of them would contradict each other. That would detract from the thread. So I already picked Belkar goes to an afterlife, not also going to pick Belkar eaten by the Snarl.

    One completely arbitrary assumption I'm using to pick my bets is, when possible, go for the happy ending. Belkar getting into an afterlife would be the happy ending, so I'm betting it instead of him being eaten by the Snarl. I'm expecting to be wrong about a significant number of these because I know my assumptions are biased.

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Yes, that is a circle or pattern on the ground, but I don't think it's Kraagor's Gate in disguise. I'm very happy to see it in the story and it suggests that there are ways I can lose the Kraagor's Gate bet without being put out, but "Kraagor's Gate is a circle or pattern on the ground" would be my favorite. Maybe there will be a circle or pattern around Kraagor's Gate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    While it's just a story and may not be accurate, what little we've seen of the rift there indicates a vertical rift, and the gate has to be built around the rift, so I'm comfortable taking that bet.
    D'oh. I now feel dumb, but I will honor the bet. And I'm not hopeless, because that picture does not look to scale.
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  20. - Top - End - #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    I'll bet that we don't see Belkar's afterlife at all, regardless of how he kicks it.
    Taking that bet. In fact:
    2 Quartaloos on the last we hear from Belkar, after he goes down in some great act of self-sacrifice to save the party, something that would have been unthinkable to the selfish bastard we met all those years ago, is a vague scream, emenatimg across the Astral from Linbo that sounds a lot like "WHAT? I've been Chaotic Evil my whole life!"

  21. - Top - End - #231
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    If Belkar HAS to die, perhaps the worst punishment gods can to do him is to send him to Good afterlife, especially if he wants evil one.
    Just imagine our poor halfling locked for eternity with all those moronic do-gooders, unable to hurt anyone. Not even allowed to fight (or join) evil adventurers that sometimes visit.
    I can't imagine worse fate for him.

    Not sure I believe it enough to place a bet, especially I already placed one that Belkar will not die at all.
    Last edited by Edreyn; Yesterday at 05:25 AM.

  22. - Top - End - #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edreyn View Post
    If Belkar HAS to die, perhaps the worst punishment gods can to do him is to send him to Good afterlife, especially if he wants evil one.
    There's no evidence that anyone, much less Belkar, actually wants an evil afterlife. They sound thoroughly unpleasant.
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  23. - Top - End - #233
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    I am familiar with Planescape, but who says evil afterlife must be same in Oots world? Big fire below - that's Xykon's fear, not Belkar's. I doubt Belkar has many skill points in Knowledge (Planes). He might imagine Abyss as the place where he will butcher defenseless petitioners for eternity.
    In any case, I was talking about Upper Planes - pretty sure those will torment him with boredom... forever.

  24. - Top - End - #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edreyn View Post
    I am familiar with Planescape, but who says evil afterlife must be same in Oots world?
    The author.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Because I am saying that is specifically what the afterlife does. It makes you into a cookie-cutter clone of everyone of the same alignment. It may take centuries to do so, but all the people at the top of the mountain? Completely indistinguishable from one another. Arguably, that is the purpose of the D&D afterlifeóto turn flawed mortal souls into perfect alignment-batteries, through various methodologies. In the Nine Hells, they torture you until you forget everything else. In Celestia, you meditate until you renounce all worldly concerns. In Valhalla, you party until you can't remember your own name. In Limbo, the chaos drives you mad. In Mechanus, you sit in grey cubicle stamping paperwork until you are bored into oblivion. And so on and so forth.
    The purpose of the afterlives is to make everyone a clone of the same alignment. For this to work, the alignment presumably has to match to start with.

    You are free to come up with your own headcanon that goes against what the author explicitly says is the case. And you are free to make bets on how the story will progress based on said headcanon. And I am going to take every one of those bets.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    The author.

    The purpose of the afterlives is to make everyone a clone of the same alignment. For this to work, the alignment presumably has to match to start with.

    You are free to come up with your own headcanon that goes against what the author explicitly says is the case. And you are free to make bets on how the story will progress based on said headcanon. And I am going to take every one of those bets.
    I bet 3 million Imperial Credits (cr3,000,000) that someone will quote Peelee and make a bet that has nothing to do with the quoted text.
    Last edited by brian 333; Yesterday at 08:04 AM.

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    Default Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)

    My main bet is still that Belkar won't die at all.
    Last edited by Edreyn; Yesterday at 08:54 AM.

  27. - Top - End - #237
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
    Peelee's Avatar

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    Default Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)

    Quote Originally Posted by brian 333 View Post
    I bet 3 million Imperial Credits (cr3,000,000) that someone will quote Peelee and make a bet that has nothing to do with the quoted text.
    Imperial credits don't work out here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Edreyn View Post
    My main bet is still that Belkar won't die all.
    Oracle hasn't been wrong yet. I'll take that bet.
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

    Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2

  28. - Top - End - #238
    Troll in the Playground
     
    HalflingPirate

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    Default Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Imperial credits don't work out here.
    Depends on which Empire. My credits are from the Traveller Universe, not the Disney one.

  29. - Top - End - #239
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Tubercular Ox's Avatar

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    Default Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Proxies on pogo sticks, I'm slow. Team Evil is going to step on a circle or pattern on the ground and get teleported to the final dungeon. That's what I'm looking for, so going to bet now the Monster in the Dark says something about it, eventually. Maybe not as they go through. Maybe not until the denouement.

    I've had no time to think about this one.
    Spoiler: The Monster in the Dark is a part of the story
    Show
    It haunts the dark places of the universe, from which it is called up at the whim of its lord to hunt down any who have offended him.
    Karen Arnold drew my avatar

  30. - Top - End - #240
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2019
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    Default Re: Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)

    Wait, I know!
    Belkar will go to Lower Planes, but the surroundings will be set the way to make him feel that he is on Upper Planes. Many innocents (illusions) around and he can't slaughter them all.
    This way all conditions are met.

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