Prediction Page, (bring your quatloos, gps, and internets, you'll need them.)

[Metastachydium]

If Belkar HAS to die, perhaps the worst punishment gods can to do him is to send him to Good afterlife, especially if he wants evil one.
Just imagine our poor halfling locked for eternity with all those moronic do-gooders, unable to hurt anyone. Not even allowed to fight (or join) evil adventurers that sometimes visit.
I can't imagine worse fate for him.

Technically, one of the few things we do know about Celestia is that its inhabitants totally get to fight stuff just strong enough to challenge them.

Imperial credits don't work out here.

Depends on which Empire. My credits are from the Traveller Universe, not the Disney one.

"These are not the imperial credits you are looking for!"

[brian 333]

"These are not the imperial credits you are looking for!"

I bet one quatloo that that is the most humorous Star Wars reference of the day.

Forget it, here's your quatloo. You've earned it.

[Peelee]

Spoiler: Not one person tried to convince me that credits will do fine.

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[brian 333]

Spoiler: Not one person tried to convince me that credits will do fine.

Show

Please accept my humblest and most abject apologies. My contrition, as great as it may be, can in no way assuage the immense disappointment which I have participated in inflicting upon you. I accept whatever retribution you deem appropriate to the severity of my offense.

Would a fine of 50 Imperial Credits suffice?

[Peelee]

Please accept my humblest and most abject apologies. My contrition, as great as it may be, can in no way assuage the immense disappointment which I have participated in inflicting upon you. I accept whatever retribution you deem appropriate to the severity of my offense.

Would a fine of 50 Imperial Credits suffice?

Ten thousand, all in advance.

[Provengreil]

Wait, I know!
Belkar will go to Lower Planes, but the surroundings will be set the way to make him feel that he is on Upper Planes. Many innocents (illusions) around and he can't slaughter them all.
This way all conditions are met.

The Giant's quote is pretty direct...It's hot skewers for Belkar unless he crosses the line to neutral at the last minute (not unthinkable, and someone around here even has it as a signature). There's no personalized afterlives, which means no ironic hells.

Given that I don't think Belkar can balance his scales at this point, his only way out of the torture is via the snarl's oblivion instead. I find this fairly likely, given that resurrection has been stated to be off the table.

[Kish]

I will, at this point, be surprised if Belkar goes to an evil afterlife. Or is devoured by the Snarl.

[Edreyn]

I will, at this point, be surprised if Belkar goes to an evil afterlife. Or is devoured by the Snarl.

If not survive, not evil afterlife and not devoured, then what will happen?

Redemption? If that's what will happen, I'll be upset. I like Belkar as evil (and yet funny) character and making him good will ruin all this.

[Metastachydium]

I bet one quatloo that that is the most humorous Star Wars reference of the day.

Forget it, here's your quatloo. You've earned it.

Sweet! I've always wanted to have one of those! (Now, what stupid bet should I squander it on? Hm.)

[Kish]

If not survive, not evil afterlife and not devoured, then what will happen?

Redemption? If that's what will happen, I'll be upset. I like Belkar as evil (and yet funny) character and making him good will ruin all this.

Be upset then. It's been happening since two books ago.

[KorvinStarmast]

Redemption? If that's what will happen, I'll be upset. I like Belkar as evil (and yet funny) character and making him good will ruin all this.

I am not sure he's going to clear the bar for redemption. Giant, through the voice of Soon's ghost, has some pretty concrete things to say about how redemption works in OotSverse which includes that you have to want to atone, you have to admit you are wrong, etc. (The furtive attempt in the conversation with Durkon is baby steps at best, but I took it as comic relief mostly).

For Belkar to get on the road to redemption is going to take a massive effort in the remaining half/two-thirds of this book. Granted, Minrah is acting as his helper / mentor, so maybe that's her deeper purpose as a character: redemption coach for Belkar. (Which may be why she's cleric/fighter multi-classed ...)

V, on the other hand, is very much focused on "I was wrong, horribly wrong" and has indicated on screen a desire to atone/make restitution (V's words), if that is even possible.
V will try to seek redemption but has accepted that it may be too far of a reach. (strips 944 and 945)
I still think that the end of the story / wrap up includes V heading off to attempt to earn redemption. As an elf, there are centuries of effort available to perhaps achieve that end.

[brian 333]

Ten thousand, all in advance.

Done, and done.

I am not sure he's going to clear the bar for redemption. Giant, through the voice of Soon's ghost, has some pretty concrete things to say about how redemption works in OotSverse which includes that you have to want to atone, you have to admit you are wrong, etc. (The furtive attempt in the conversation with Durkon is baby steps at best, but I took it as comic relief mostly).

For Belkar to get on the road to redemption is going to take a massive effort in the remaining half/two-thirds of this book. Granted, Minrah is acting as his helper / mentor, so maybe that's her deeper purpose as a character: redemption coach for Belkar. (Which may be why she's cleric/fighter multi-classed ...)

V, on the other hand, is very much focused on "I was wrong, horribly wrong" and has indicated on screen a desire to atone/make restitution (V's words), if that is even possible.
V will try to seek redemption but has accepted that it may be too far of a reach. (strips 944 and 945)
I still think that the end of the story / wrap up includes V heading off to attempt to earn redemption. As an elf, there are centuries of effort available to perhaps achieve that end.

I agree, with the caveat that a sufficiently great deed can grant a lot of points on the scale. Though the scale of that deed would have to be massive to counter just what he's done in comic, not to mention what came before. Which may put redemption, or even alignment shift, out of Belkar's reach.

[Peelee]

I am not sure he's going to clear the bar for redemption. Giant, through the voice of Soon's ghost, has some pretty concrete things to say about how redemption works in OotSverse which includes that you have to want to atone, you have to admit you are wrong, etc. (The furtive attempt in the conversation with Durkon is baby steps at best, but I took it as comic relief mostly).

For Belkar to get on the road to redemption is going to take a massive effort in the remaining half/two-thirds of this book. Granted, Minrah is acting as his helper / mentor, so maybe that's her deeper purpose as a character: redemption coach for Belkar. (Which may be why she's cleric/fighter multi-classed ...)

V, on the other hand, is very much focused on "I was wrong, horribly wrong" and has indicated on screen a desire to atone/make restitution (V's words), if that is even possible.
V will try to seek redemption but has accepted that it may be too far of a reach. (strips 944 and 945)
I still think that the end of the story / wrap up includes V heading off to attempt to earn redemption. As an elf, there are centuries of effort available to perhaps achieve that end.

So i think my perennial favorite, In Bruges, is a good lens to see this through. Also, anyone who hasn't seen In Bruges should go see it as soon as possible, it's just fantastic.

Spoiler: Major spoilers In Bruges

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So the main characters we focus on and root for, Ken and Ray, are assassins. They kill people for money with seemingly no objection. Ken tries to rationalize that many, probably most and hopefully all, deserved it, but realizes that it is likely that at least some did not. He knows full well that what he does is evil but he feels such a debt to Harry that he would go to hell and back for him. When Ray murders the little boy, both Ken and Ray end up fundamentally changed - Ray is so wracked with grief and regret that he tries to commit suicide, and Ken, who is given the job to assassinate Ray because he killed a child, stops him. Ray doesn't do anything to be redeemed for Ken, because what can one really do to redeem yourself from killing an innocent? The important thing is that Ray is so overwhelmed by the enormity of his actions that he sees the only viable solution to remove himself entirely. This, to Ken, is enough. It is arguably the purest example of regret, if incredibly misguided, and there is no doubt that if Ray could have done something, anything, to undo that, he would. The barest core of redemption is recognition of past wrongs and commitment to never do them again, and if possible, atone. Ray clearly hits the first two, and the seeming lack of ability to do the third triggers his spiraling depression. When Ray says that no matter what he does in the future, he will never have not killed that little boy, that's enough to see himself as forever condemned, atonement out of reach. And this is a reasonable argument, the dead cannot be brought back. Ken tells him to save the next little boy. Ray takes this literally but Ken is speaking metaphorically, do what he can to make up for it. Ray isn't a doctor, (you need exams!), he'll likely never know when or even if he will be able to fully atone for what he did. But Ken convinces him to try, because Ken sees in Ray someone who doesn't deserve to die someone who can be redeemed. And in this Ken redeems himself - he refuses the order to kill Ray, and when Harry comes personally, refuses to Harry's face. And not only that, he lays out why he refuses! Ray had to be given a chance, and to do that, Ken has to say **** harry and **** their history and **** everything Ken owes Harry for. And Ken harbors no ill will to Harry other than this. He openly goes to what he sincerely thinks will be his death at Harry's hand. He doesn't fight Harry when the gun is pulled. He hands over his own gun. Because he is finally at peace with himself, he finally was able to turn his back and make a stand. And when it's revealed that Ray, thought to have escaped Belgium and Harry's wrath, is just down at the base of the tower, Ken throws himself off to give the unarmed Ray his gun and a chance to get out with his life, not because Ken deemed Ray worthy of redemption but because Ken saw that Ray was already wanting to redeem himself and had to be given that chance.

And that's really the core of it. Redemption isn't something that someone else gives. It's something that you have to do to yourself. That's why Miko couldn't get it. She couldn't see what she did wrong, at any point, and never looked inward for redemption. She looked outward, to Soon. Forgiveness is external, that can only be granted by others. But redemption? That's personal.

Again, i cannot recommend In Bruges enough. And also the video commentary of it on YouTube, The Absurd Worth of Redemption, for a good quick and dirty summation of the takeaways.