Diplomancy/Shadow conjuration Cheese...

[Eldritch_Ent]

Hello! I'm just posting a quick thread, wondering just how Diplomancy (Getting everyone you can talk to to eat out of your hand), Leadership (Probably combined with Diplomancy), and how to get Shadow spells to somehow be more effective if someone *succesfully makes their save*- And just what "Shadow Magic" comes from? The Tome of Magic?

I'm just curious as to what these things do, and how they work.

[Illiterate Scribe]

I'd recommend this as a nexus of all that is terrifying in the game.

[Eldritch_Ent]

Thanks for the link, however I don't see any of the tricks I'm looking for information on in there. :(

[Attilargh]

Here's a copy of how I prefer to cheese out Diplomacy via only the PHB:

First, we'll take a Half-Elf for that racial +2 Diplomacy bonus. Point Buy with 25 points gives our Diplomancer a Charisma score of 18, five tens and a nine. For class, let's take Aristocrat, as it has Diplomacy as a class skill, and it's always more fun with an NPC class. Obviously we want to max out Diplomacy. Now let's set his age at, say, 126 years, giving him the Age category of Venerable and +3 to Charisma. Skill Focus: Diplomacy is a nice starting feat.

Then we begin our abuse of the synergy bonuses by maxing out Bluff, Knowledge (nobility & royalty) and Sense Motive. It doesn't have an effect yet, but one must be patient.

The Diplomacy modifier is now 2 (from being half-elf) +5 (from charisma) +4 (from ranks) +3 (from Skill Focus) = 14. Not bad for a 1st-level character; rolling a mere nine (which is statistically below average) turns that nasty, scheming viceroy away from plotting against you.

At level two we take a rank of Diplomacy, Bluff, Knowledge (n&r) and Sense Motive. That gives us a modifier of 14 +1 (rank) +6 (three synergy bonuses) = 21. Now we're talking.

At level three comes yet another rank, and we can take our next feat, Negotiator. Skill modifier is now 24. Ta-dah! From Hostile to Indifferent in a minute, without a chance of failure.

It was pointed out to me that if one takes the trait Honest along with some flaw to gain Negotiator at first level, one can do this in two levels.

[Chronos]

...and how to get Shadow spells to somehow be more effective if someone *succesfully makes their save*

This isn't the build you're thinking of (I don't have the right books to know exactly how that one works), but one way to get this general effect using nothing but Core is to shadow-conjure a Wall of Stone into the shape of a bridge over a chasm. So long as things believe the bridge is real, they can cross over it no problem. But if someone successfully disbelieves the bridge, splat.

[Kaelik]

The Shadow spell thing you are thinking about is probably this one.

Diplomacy has fixed easily reachable DCs that actually declare that the hungry Ogre is now your best friend.

Leadership involves playing two (or more) characters instead of one by just giving up a feat. For best results have your Cohorts take Leadership.

Of course then your DM will send you this ECL 20 Encounter:

Wizard 10/Red Wizard 10 with Leadership
Wizard 18 with Leadership
Wizard 16 with Leadership
Wizard 14 with Leadership
Wizard 12 with Leadership
Wizard 10 with Leadership
Wizard 8 with Leadership
Wizard 6 with Leadership
Wizard 4

Red Wizards Circle Magic is bad. It's horrible when they get 8 free Wizards to circle with for the cost of a feat.

[Hyfigh]

This isn't the build you're thinking of (I don't have the right books to know exactly how that one works), but one way to get this general effect using nothing but Core is to shadow-conjure a Wall of Stone into the shape of a bridge over a chasm. So long as things believe the bridge is real, they can cross over it no problem. But if someone successfully disbelieves the bridge, splat.

Wait. What? No.

The Shadow Conjuration trick deals with being a gnome illusionist. This gnome goes about taking a couple presitge classes that allow you to use the spell silent image (received as a 0 level spell for the gnome illusionist sub level) with heighten spell to essentially mimic the Shadow Conjuration, and Shadow Evocation and their greater counter parts. These spells already mimic spells to full effect on a failed save, and offer partial effect on a successful save. The PrC's the gnome takes also increase the effectiveness of the results of the spells, to a point where making the save is actually worse than failing.

The trick is spelled out and better explained here.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Of course, the OP's attempt at mixing cheesiness probably doesn't work, since the famed Gnome Illusionist Silent Image Shadow trick explained above only works on the people you want to kill with it. Having your followers clapping their hands if they believe won't help you.

[Chronos]

Wait. What? No.

I said that what I was posting wasn't what the OP was thinking of. But it is another, perfectly valid, way to make it better if your enemy succeeds on his save versus your shadow magic.

[Hyfigh]

I said that what I was posting wasn't what the OP was thinking of. But it is another, perfectly valid, way to make it better if your enemy succeeds on his save versus your shadow magic.

I see. I misunderstood. Sorry.